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So... uh... PAX?

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    MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    A little disappointed they aren't allowing refunds, with delta having exploded pretty much immediately after tickets went up. I am getting stuck with two extras this year.

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    cbelleviecbellevie Registered User regular
    cbellevie wrote: »
    afraid I would go and it would just [be] two huge Twitch and Facebook booths.
    I expect Geico will show up at least :P

    Well Amazon, Microsoft, Nintendo and WotC are semi-local, but I don't know if any of them have confirmed.

    23 days seems to be cutting it pretty close, but I wouldn't be surprised if PAX is still waiting for confirmation from many exhibitors. I could also imagine a situation where smaller exhibitors may be depending on a larger booth like Xbox or Playstation which might not be confirmed yet.

    Some conventions don't release their final exhibitor list until a week or so in advance (which may correspond to the print deadline for programs, hall maps, or exhibitor lists) and even then there are often last-minute cancellations.


    Ah, Geico, of course, how could I forget!

    I get why exhibitors might not yet be announced, but under the circumstances, surprised they haven't said anything. PAX historically has featured a number of specific exhibitors and this year it is unclear if any will be there. If they aren't, that changes the experience quite a bit. For example, I cannot imagine PAX without any of the big names, but also without Indie MEGABOOTH... Announcing seems like it would help sell tickets. Of course, if a lot of big regulars are not on board, I guess not announcing is better for them ;-)

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    every day's greatevery day's great Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    Madpoet wrote: »
    A little disappointed they aren't allowing refunds, with delta having exploded pretty much immediately after tickets went up. I am getting stuck with two extras this year.
    I know the feeling, though I am not surprised either since most tickets (and PAX badges) are usually non-refundable unless the event is canceled.

    I'm not expecting it, but I agree that it would be a nice gesture to make them refundable this year, since I expect many people may end up canceling their plans due to the delta surge.

    Since badges are still available, and might even remain available at the door during the show itself, current badge holders really aren't coveting a scarce resource or preventing others from attending.

    every day's great on
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    BluemeaneBluemeane Registered User regular
    Thrawns wrote: »
    Pavio wrote: »
    Thrawns wrote: »
    Translation: We didn't sell all our tickets; so, now we're trying to get people to buy the rest of them.

    Nothing wrong with that. Most likely, they looked at what was holding people up from buying. If you read the forums, people here repeatedly said they wouldn't go without a vaccine requirement. Sounds like the best for everyone because more people want to go and be safe and now they have that opportunity, which is awesome.

    Can someone please explain how someone who's vaccinated is afraid of someone who isn't vaccinated?
    How does someone who's vaccinated feel more safe about someone else being vaccinated than actually being vaccinated themselves?

    I swear, serious questions here. I'm not understanding.

    Because vaccinated people can still get sick(sometimes really sick). And we can still carry the visit home and put and about and spread it to family and friends who may not be able to get vaccinated for various reasons.

    jj0mqt5d2a94.png


    PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXX!
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    BluemeaneBluemeane Registered User regular
    Madpoet wrote: »
    A little disappointed they aren't allowing refunds, with delta having exploded pretty much immediately after tickets went up. I am getting stuck with two extras this year.

    If you used a credit card there is a good chance you can reverse the charges or get money get back.

    And for sure next time make people buy their own tickets lol.

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    PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXX!
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    ClannMorganClannMorgan Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    So with AUS being postponed what do you think the likelihood of West being cancelled? I mean have badges even gone out? Still no list of exhibitors. I mean I still would like to attend, but it doesn’t seem to be looking good.

    ClannMorgan on
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    every day's greatevery day's great Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    So with AUS being postponed what do you think the likelihood of West being cancelled? I mean have badges even gone out? Still no list of exhibitors. I mean I still would like to attend, but it doesn’t seem to be looking good.
    My completely unsubstantiated and wild guess is that we won't know until the last possible minute.

    If delta keeps going up I wouldn't be surprised if most exhibitors pull out and PAX West is canceled/postponed/online only. :sad:

    Interestingly enough it is looking like 203 cases (so far) out of 385K+ Lollapalooza attendees. As a completely unscientific and almost certainly inaccurate estimate, that would be comparable to fewer than 20 people getting sick after a full-attendance PAX West with 35K (?) attendees. And of course this PAX, if it happens, is likely to be much smaller (10K?) between reduced capacity and lower ticket sales due to delta.

    Is it worth the risk? Would PAX be worse because it's inside? Would PAX do better on reducing transmission because of better vax/test/mask enforcement? There's really no way of knowing.

    As another random data point: Dev doesn't seem to be happening this year.

    every day's great on
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    cbelleviecbellevie Registered User regular
    So with AUS being postponed what do you think the likelihood of West being cancelled? I mean have badges even gone out? Still no list of exhibitors. I mean I still would like to attend, but it doesn’t seem to be looking good.
    Would PAX be worse because it's inside? There's really know way of knowing.

    IMO, there are few scenarios worse than PAX for avoiding illness ;-) I've been 7-8 times and gotten sick every single time (this was why we decided as a family to skip this year)

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    every day's greatevery day's great Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    cbellevie wrote: »
    IMO, there are few scenarios worse than PAX for avoiding illness ;-) I've been 7-8 times and gotten sick every single time (this was why we decided as a family to skip this year)
    '
    Haha, that's no good. Yeah the combination of people traveling from all over and bringing viruses you have no resistance to, added to a probably compromised immune system due to lack of sleep, not to mention so many high-touch and rarely-disinfected surfaces like game controllers and keyboards, is probably a good recipe for the PAX pox/con flu even in a good year.

    As I've noted, hand sanitizer was one of the smartest swag bag items at one PAX (when they still had swag bags.) I think I also got a sanitizer sprayer from Sony/PlayStation at another gaming event.

    I think I got slightly sick after PAX once, but recovered quickly. Sometimes summer viruses can be annoyingly persistent however. Delta is obviously worse and especially contagious.

    (and typo corrected, oops)

    every day's great on
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    PavioPavio Registered User regular
    AUS probably had more to do with local government than anything. One case resulted in a week-long lockdown of Canberra, for example. Sounds like Australia generally is at a different place with this.

    I have zero issues with attending PAX even as things continue as they are. I don't want to start a huge debate, you are all welcome to your own opinions on this, I just want to share my own thoughts because while this forum seems to have a lot of people who are expressing why they aren't going, there aren't many of us who are going that are sharing much.

    So: I have taken this very seriously and masked up and quarantined when needed and got the vaccine as soon as I was able to. It is so incredibly rare for anyone with the vaccine to become hospitalized or die, even with all the talk of "breakthrough" cases recently. The vaccine either works, or it doesn't. And the scientific evidence is that it does. Also, as a side note people like to mention vaccine availability, but at least in the US where we are currently talking about it, the vaccine is widely available.

    Anyways, just my two cents. I'm ok if you disagree with me and are staying home as a precaution, but there's a reason that even with every concern out there that Saturdays sold out and all the exhibitor interest. For reference, the article @davobah posted earlier with comments from Ryan Hartman: https://www.geekwire.com/2021/penny-arcade-preparing-person-pax-seattle-lessons-learned-virtual-events/

    I would imagine Seattle could step in with a rule change at any time, and that possibility may have to do with the delays more than anything. But so far, as long as the city doesn't change course, it appears to be happening.

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    KetarKetar Come on upstairs we're having a partyRegistered User regular
    Madpoet wrote: »
    A little disappointed they aren't allowing refunds, with delta having exploded pretty much immediately after tickets went up. I am getting stuck with two extras this year.
    I know the feeling, though I am not surprised either since most tickets (and PAX badges) are usually non-refundable unless the event is canceled.

    I'm not expecting it, but I agree that it would be a nice gesture to make them refundable this year, since I expect many people may end up canceling their plans due to the delta surge.

    Since badges are still available, and might even remain available at the door during the show itself, current badge holders really aren't coveting a scarce resource or preventing others from attending.

    Gen Con was offering badge rollover for the second year in a row until late June and refunds until the end of July for a con that's being held about 2 weeks after West. It really feels like the absolute least a con should be doing these days.

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    dekirudekiru Registered User new member
    Madpoet wrote: »
    A little disappointed they aren't allowing refunds, with delta having exploded pretty much immediately after tickets went up. I am getting stuck with two extras this year.

    I've actually seen a good amount of post on Reddit claiming that they emailed the following recipient (paxquestions@reedexpo.com) and were granted refunds. Maybe reach out and see what they can do regarding your issue.

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    MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    dekiru wrote: »
    Madpoet wrote: »
    A little disappointed they aren't allowing refunds, with delta having exploded pretty much immediately after tickets went up. I am getting stuck with two extras this year.

    I've actually seen a good amount of post on Reddit claiming that they emailed the following recipient (paxquestions@reedexpo.com) and were granted refunds. Maybe reach out and see what they can do regarding your issue.
    I did - they said they'd forward on the request, and then silence. :(

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    RavenHuskyRavenHusky Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    Madpoet wrote: »
    dekiru wrote: »
    Madpoet wrote: »
    A little disappointed they aren't allowing refunds, with delta having exploded pretty much immediately after tickets went up. I am getting stuck with two extras this year.

    I've actually seen a good amount of post on Reddit claiming that they emailed the following recipient (paxquestions@reedexpo.com) and were granted refunds. Maybe reach out and see what they can do regarding your issue.
    I did - they said they'd forward on the request, and then silence. :(

    I'm still waiting for a solid answer as to whether a self-test kit is sufficient for entry. They're being slow.

    RavenHusky on
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    AstroPuls3AstroPuls3 Registered User new member
    RavenHusky wrote: »
    Madpoet wrote: »
    dekiru wrote: »
    Madpoet wrote: »
    A little disappointed they aren't allowing refunds, with delta having exploded pretty much immediately after tickets went up. I am getting stuck with two extras this year.

    I've actually seen a good amount of post on Reddit claiming that they emailed the following recipient (paxquestions@reedexpo.com) and were granted refunds. Maybe reach out and see what they can do regarding your issue.
    I did - they said they'd forward on the request, and then silence. :(

    I'm still waiting for a solid answer as to whether a self-test kit is sufficient for entry. They're being slow.

    Signed up to help you out.
    I asked this in email early on and was told that self-test kits are not sufficient for entry. Pasting the entire email below:

    uww6rgz0195q.png

    Running some numbers and what not concluded that not being vaccinated it would almost be impossible to go to PAX because of the healthcare requirement. Getting results back isn't instant and sometimes can take days, which means you can't attend. On top of which, it's too late to get vaccinated and still go at this point I believe because you needed to have the last shot 14 days before the event takes place.

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    RavenHuskyRavenHusky Registered User regular
    AstroPuls3 wrote: »

    Signed up to help you out.
    I asked this in email early on and was told that self-test kits are not sufficient for entry. Pasting the entire email below:

    uww6rgz0195q.png

    Running some numbers and what not concluded that not being vaccinated it would almost be impossible to go to PAX because of the healthcare requirement. Getting results back isn't instant and sometimes can take days, which means you can't attend. On top of which, it's too late to get vaccinated and still go at this point I believe because you needed to have the last shot 14 days before the event takes place.

    I got that same copy-paste response from when I asked the first time. I can read the web page just fine. The page did not address self-test kits, and I'm looking for a straight Yes or No response.

    Otherwise, why even give the option if it's going to be effectively impossible?

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    wolfemancswolfemancs Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    Interesting that even in their response, they continue to separate Antigen and PCR with the exact words they do.

    Reading exactly to the letter:
    -If you take a Antigen test after 4:00 AM on Friday, it should be sufficient for all weekend, since it needs to be taken "within six hours of EVENT start time" [emphasis mine]
    -Contrast to the PCR which has to be taken "within 72 hours of each day of entry to the event", meaning if you took one Thursday, getting the result Friday morning, then it'd only be good for Friday, Saturday and Sunday (and technically only for Sunday if you took the test after 10:00 AM on Thursday), and you'd have to sneak off to get another test to cover Monday.

    Based on my (very limited) understanding of the tests, I'd suspect what they MEANT to say is that you need an antigen test for every day you want to attend, and the PCR would be sufficient for 3 days at a time.... but that's not the way I read it.

    CW

    wolfemancs on
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    RavenHuskyRavenHusky Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    wolfemancs wrote: »
    Interesting that even in their response, they continue to separate Antigen and PCR with the exact words they do.

    Reading exactly to the letter:
    -If you take a Antigen test after 4:00 AM on Friday, it should be sufficient for all weekend, since it needs to be taken "within six hours of EVENT start time" [emphasis mine]
    -Contrast to the PCR which has to be taken "within 72 hours of each day of entry to the event", meaning if you took one Thursday, getting the result Friday morning, then it'd only be good for Friday, Saturday and Sunday (and technically only for Sunday if you took the test after 10:00 AM on Thursday), and you'd have to sneak off to get another test to cover Monday.

    Based on my (very limited) understanding of the tests, I'd suspect what they MEANT to say is that you need an antigen test for every day you want to attend, and the PCR would be sufficient for 3 days at a time.... but that's not the way I read it.

    CW

    The distinction between antigen and PCR is likely because PCR tests have to be sent out to a lab, and have a 2-3 day turnaround time, whereas the antigen tests (especially if PAX allows for self test kits) the results are near instant.

    To my understanding, a PCR test taken on Wednesday would only cover Friday/Saturday due to the 72 hour time frame, and no matter when you take the test, it screws people over who were going to attend all four days.

    For antigen tests, you're supposed to take them at least 36 hours apart from each other, over the course of three days.

    RavenHusky on
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    every day's greatevery day's great Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    Another data point: 210 covid cases out of some 28,000 attendees of the Watershed Music Festival at the Gorge Amphitheatre, which is a ~150 mile drive east of Seattle.

    However that was a) outside and b) only with "recommendations" rather than stricter vaccine/test requirements, which Live Nation isn't enforcing until October (after the Gorge's season ends) though some concerts (Phish, Dave Matthews) are adopting them anyway in August and September.

    (I usually do not enjoy "jam band" concerts, but it would be even worse to attend and then get sick with covid.)

    every day's great on
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    BluemeaneBluemeane Registered User regular
    RavenHusky wrote: »
    wolfemancs wrote: »
    Interesting that even in their response, they continue to separate Antigen and PCR with the exact words they do.

    Reading exactly to the letter:
    -If you take a Antigen test after 4:00 AM on Friday, it should be sufficient for all weekend, since it needs to be taken "within six hours of EVENT start time" [emphasis mine]
    -Contrast to the PCR which has to be taken "within 72 hours of each day of entry to the event", meaning if you took one Thursday, getting the result Friday morning, then it'd only be good for Friday, Saturday and Sunday (and technically only for Sunday if you took the test after 10:00 AM on Thursday), and you'd have to sneak off to get another test to cover Monday.

    Based on my (very limited) understanding of the tests, I'd suspect what they MEANT to say is that you need an antigen test for every day you want to attend, and the PCR would be sufficient for 3 days at a time.... but that's not the way I read it.

    CW

    The distinction between antigen and PCR is likely because PCR tests have to be sent out to a lab, and have a 2-3 day turnaround time, whereas the antigen tests (especially if PAX allows for self test kits) the results are near instant.

    To my understanding, a PCR test taken on Wednesday would only cover Friday/Saturday due to the 72 hour time frame, and no matter when you take the test, it screws people over who were going to attend all four days.

    For antigen tests, you're supposed to take them at least 36 hours apart from each other, over the course of three days.

    The problem with the test at home kits, is there is NO WAY to prove you are the one who took the test. Unless you are doing the test right in front of someone at the door it is a useless test. You could just get a strip and show it at the door, it could be one you found on the ground, or one you took three days ago etc. There is no way to prove it is your result, or when you took it.

    A result from a medical provider does both of these because A they document the exact time and date, and B they verify you are you before they do it.

    jj0mqt5d2a94.png


    PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXX!
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    BluemeaneBluemeane Registered User regular
    Thrawns wrote: »
    Pavio wrote: »
    Thrawns wrote: »
    Translation: We didn't sell all our tickets; so, now we're trying to get people to buy the rest of them.

    Nothing wrong with that. Most likely, they looked at what was holding people up from buying. If you read the forums, people here repeatedly said they wouldn't go without a vaccine requirement. Sounds like the best for everyone because more people want to go and be safe and now they have that opportunity, which is awesome.

    Can someone please explain how someone who's vaccinated is afraid of someone who isn't vaccinated?
    How does someone who's vaccinated feel more safe about someone else being vaccinated than actually being vaccinated themselves?

    I swear, serious questions here. I'm not understanding.
    Thrawns wrote: »
    Pavio wrote: »
    Thrawns wrote: »
    Translation: We didn't sell all our tickets; so, now we're trying to get people to buy the rest of them.

    Nothing wrong with that. Most likely, they looked at what was holding people up from buying. If you read the forums, people here repeatedly said they wouldn't go without a vaccine requirement. Sounds like the best for everyone because more people want to go and be safe and now they have that opportunity, which is awesome.

    Can someone please explain how someone who's vaccinated is afraid of someone who isn't vaccinated?
    How does someone who's vaccinated feel more safe about someone else being vaccinated than actually being vaccinated themselves?

    I swear, serious questions here. I'm not understanding.
    RavenHusky wrote: »
    AstroPuls3 wrote: »

    Signed up to help you out.
    I asked this in email early on and was told that self-test kits are not sufficient for entry. Pasting the entire email below:

    uww6rgz0195q.png

    Running some numbers and what not concluded that not being vaccinated it would almost be impossible to go to PAX because of the healthcare requirement. Getting results back isn't instant and sometimes can take days, which means you can't attend. On top of which, it's too late to get vaccinated and still go at this point I believe because you needed to have the last shot 14 days before the event takes place.

    I got that same copy-paste response from when I asked the first time. I can read the web page just fine. The page did not address self-test kits, and I'm looking for a straight Yes or No response.

    Otherwise, why even give the option if it's going to be effectively impossible?

    I can PROMISE you it will be a NO. A take at home test does not meet the exact words they posted. It isn't that hard to get. The straight told us exactly what they will take at the doors. If it is not one of those, then they won't take it. I am just not sure why you are expecting an answer, it is already there.

    jj0mqt5d2a94.png


    PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXX!
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    japerryjaperry Registered User regular
    I'm still waiting to hear back about children under 2. Its not legal to require them to wear masks, and its extremely difficult to get a PCR test for them. Antigen tests aren't advised for children under 2.

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    RavenHuskyRavenHusky Registered User regular
    Bluemeane wrote: »

    The problem with the test at home kits, is there is NO WAY to prove you are the one who took the test. Unless you are doing the test right in front of someone at the door it is a useless test. You could just get a strip and show it at the door, it could be one you found on the ground, or one you took three days ago etc. There is no way to prove it is your result, or when you took it.

    A result from a medical provider does both of these because A they document the exact time and date, and B they verify you are you before they do it.

    The problem with PAX's policy is that six hours is not enough lead time for someone who is attending the entirety of PAX if you have to have the test proctored, and the way the PCR test policy is worded, it doesn't matter when you take the test because it's not going to be valid for at least part of the show. Also, you're not supposed to read the test strip after a half-hour anyway.
    Another data point: 210 covid cases out of some 28,000 attendees of the Watershed Music Festival at the Gorge Amphitheatre, which is a ~150 mile drive east of Seattle.

    However that was a) outside and b) only with "recommendations" rather than stricter vaccine/test requirements, which Live Nation isn't enforcing until October (after the Gorge's season ends) though some concerts (Phish, Dave Matthews) are adopting them anyway in August and September.

    (I usually do not enjoy "jam band" concerts, but it would be even worse to attend and then get sick with covid.)

    Doing the math on that, that is three quarters of 1%. I think everything will be fine. Even though most of PAX is indoors, it looks like it's going to be nowhere near capacity. I'm personally not too worried about it, and even if I do get sick, it will be no different than your run of the mill PAX-Pox during non-covid years.

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    wolfemancswolfemancs Registered User regular
    New-ish PAX twitter reply seems to indicate more what I was thinking makes sense (from a test perspective). Source: https://twitter.com/pax/status/1427709522135638017
    PCR tests are valid for 72 hours from the time the test is taken, and antigen tests (aka rapid tests) are good for 6 hours after the time the test is taken.

    I would read this as needing a separate antigen test for every day you wish to attend....

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    RavenHuskyRavenHusky Registered User regular
    They updated the FAQ section, I got my answer.
    All COVID-19 tests must be done in a lab or clinic, home tests cannot be accepted.

    The way it's worded is that PCR tests are only good for three days at most, assuming that you have a turnaround time of less than 24 hours.

    tw787Xr.png


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    every day's greatevery day's great Registered User regular
    So it's about 2 weeks out - has anyone received their badges yet?

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    RavenHuskyRavenHusky Registered User regular
    So it's about 2 weeks out - has anyone received their badges yet?

    Nope. They were supposed to go out on the 16th, but no word about it, and no tracking email.

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    BluemeaneBluemeane Registered User regular
    RavenHusky wrote: »
    So it's about 2 weeks out - has anyone received their badges yet?

    Nope. They were supposed to go out on the 16th, but no word about it, and no tracking email.

    Maybe still debating if it can go on? Although they already made the badges so may as well ship them lol

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    PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXX!
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    wolfemancswolfemancs Registered User regular
    I got my shipping email overnight last night. With tracking number. Bobcats incoming.

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    BluemeaneBluemeane Registered User regular
    wolfemancs wrote: »
    I got my shipping email overnight last night. With tracking number. Bobcats incoming.

    Nice! And Lucky!

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    PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXX!
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    RavenHuskyRavenHusky Registered User regular
    wolfemancs wrote: »
    I got my shipping email overnight last night. With tracking number. Bobcats incoming.

    Same

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    BluemeaneBluemeane Registered User regular
    My Bobcats have shipped as well!!!!

    jj0mqt5d2a94.png


    PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXX!
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    PavioPavio Registered User regular
    My bobcats are on the way too!

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    BluemeaneBluemeane Registered User regular
    Still no word on map, or vendors, or shows, or anything.... Heck not even info on the merch!!! 2 weeks away now.

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    PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXX!
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    cbelleviecbellevie Registered User regular
    Bluemeane wrote: »
    Still no word on map, or vendors, or shows, or anything.... Heck not even info on the merch!!! 2 weeks away now.

    Looks like they just announced the bands.

    Also, in a Seattle gaming group, someone mentioned that a Cheap Ass Gamer panel was announced to be at the Grand Hyatt at 230 on Friday... so there is at least one panel, maybe ;-)

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    Nfan10039Nfan10039 Streamer/Gamer/Developer Montreal (Seattle eventually....)Registered User regular
    There's also Double NintenDare happening according to a post on Reddit. So maybe 2 panels???

    ajor19ru24j1.png
    Just a nerd into anything Nintendo, anime, MCU, Star Wars, and board games/card games.
    Also a computer scientist and a streamer.
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    bacon_avengerbacon_avenger Defender of Pork Products Pacific NW, USARegistered User regular
    And here I was starting to wonder about them, got my shipping notification as well

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    brosephene_brosephene_ Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    Glad to hear people are getting shipping notifications for badges. Can't believe it's so soon. Also, feeling fairly optimistic about the safety of the event (given the circumstances); even at East 2020, they had prepared really impressive sanitization standards and executed them well. Hope to run into some of you there.

    cq3frqzgo56a.png
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    Nfan10039Nfan10039 Streamer/Gamer/Developer Montreal (Seattle eventually....)Registered User regular
    I'm starting to question my excitement for this event...I need to stay off of Reddit before everyone's low expectations bring my own down.

    ajor19ru24j1.png
    Just a nerd into anything Nintendo, anime, MCU, Star Wars, and board games/card games.
    Also a computer scientist and a streamer.
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    every day's greatevery day's great Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    Bobcats acquired, as they say. :surprised:

    A bit surprising since I don't seem to have received any shipping notification, but I'm not complaining!

    So it looks like PAX West is actually happening as a real, in-person thing! Who knows whether it will be a ghost town due to exhibitor and attendee cancellations, and I'm not even sure whether I'm going to attend myself, but it is kind of an exciting development that I hope won't be disastrous. Oddly enough it could be the only line-free in-person PAX, which sounds kind of great except for the delta risk.

    Whoever ends up attending, I hope it's a successful show and also that it demonstrates that conventions and fun things can return safely.

    every day's great on
This discussion has been closed.