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Warhammer 40k finally gets the [BOOMER SHOOTERS] treatment

TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailorSeattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
edited June 2022 in Games and Technology
This thread was written while drinking. Lol. I'm sorry <3
Welcome to the home of cancerous mice, high speed run and gun action, and nobody giving two flaming fucks about immersive narratives.

Welcome to:

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What the fuck is a Boomer Shooter?
Back in the day, before Half-Life, before the dark times, shooters weren't about tactical experiences, or narrative, or big set pieces. They were about action and atmosphere and occasionally just being blatantly trolled by the developers. Fuck your sympathetic protagonist, you were here to go as fast as the game engine would allow (maybe even faster if you found some truly dumb shit), blow up everything with thematic, increasingly off the wall weapons, find secrets, and get that coveted 100% level complete score. But then Half-Life happened and upended the industry. Suddenly it was about narrative and set pieces and everything we now understand to be the concept of the modern shooter.

However...

The chosen one returned.

Our lord and savior.

Our ripping and tearing messiah: Doom Guy.

2016's Doom showed a whole new generation the sheer joy of just chainsawing a motherfucker in half without needing some grand, involved story and it had an interesting knock on effect. It inspired all the people pushing/past 40 to get back in the game and it inspired a whole new generation to tap into the sensibilities and aesthetics of the old ways while using the modern engines and lessons learned to forge them into new, refined experiences thus giving birth to the Boomer Shooter renaissance. Because back in our day we got our shit via shareware disks and when the internet started it played the song of our people and Pizza Hut personal pan pizzas were a fucking gourmet experience you'd get for participating in the Book It Club and now we're getting nervous about retirement and chugging Monster Ultras because they don't have sugar and insulin is fucking expensive so don't get the beetus.

A boomer shooter is about speed, movement, quick aiming, tactical gun swapping, atmosphere, and once you get into the Build Engine era, an INCREDIBLE amount of shit talking. But we're not here to talk about the old shit, we're here to celebrate the new. So please allow me to introduce y'all to some of my favorites and hopefully we can help draw new people into this incredible resurgence of old school concepts married to new school tech and sensibilities.

Our Lords and Saviors
Ok, first off, this thread will be incomplete without a mention of Civvie 11's channel. I'd link GManLives but that guy is a fucking scrub who somehow played The Darkness and never figured out you could just bop the lights with your tentacles so I trust his opinion about as much as I trust John Carmack not to be a fucking hyper intelligent space alien.
https://www.youtube.com/c/Civvie11/
Here's his most popular video all about Doom 2016 if you need a taste of the delights within:
https://youtu.be/HCzOXAdwS9c
This guy is a great, hilarious, and thank fuck never edgy resource for old shooter discussions and roundups of new boomer shooter fun. If you're new to this genre this guy will learn you some good shit. To put it simply, he's such a voice for the community that people have started actively trolling him by including sewer levels in their new games to annoy him specifically and one of his characters has shown up in a few new games. Good dude, highly recommended.

The major champion of the renaissance, however, is Big fucking John himself, owner of everyone's favorite Twitter shitposting gaming company New Blood Entertainment, Dave Oshry. This guy first popped up in the Rise of the Triad reboot and then founded New Blood as a home for wacky shooter shit, wasting money on shitpost domain names (see: http://www.wehate.money ), posting about his good boi doggo, and actively promoting new boomer shooters he thinks are rad that aren't even produced by New Blood. I mention Oshry and New Blood because they were my start and I wanna use them as a segue to:

Literally just me drunkenly listing classics while I think about Modern Major General badly and drinking
Wolfenstein 3d, Doom, Duke Nukem 3d, Blood, Shadow Warrior, Blake Stone, Dark Forces, Heretic (Hexen sucks shit, avoid it!), Catacomb Abyss 3d, Rise of the Triad, Quake 1+2, lemme know what I missed while drinking!
Literally just me linking cool shit I've played
MANKIND IS DEAD
BLOOD IS FUEL
HELL IS FULL

WELCOME TO FUCKING ULTRAKILL
https://youtu.be/3WXPTXfuo3I
I ain't even gonna try and explain this fucking nonsense. All I'm gonna say is you can parry your own shotgun blast to make the blast go faster and fucking explode. YOU CAN PARRY YOUR OWN SHOTGUN BLAST TO MAKE IT GO FASTER AND EXPLODE. Do you like the idea of DMC Gunslinger style on every upper known to mankind simultaneously as a FPS? Do you like the idea of being healed by literally getting bathed in the blood of your enemies? Play fucking Ultrakill. It's prolly the most exciting of all the Boomer Shooters out there and I can't wait till the full release.
Demo is on the Steam page: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1229490/ULTRAKILL/

https://youtu.be/Jf77Zql2ZVM
Project Warlock is so fucking retro it reverts back to Catacomb Abyss 3D/Wolf 3D territory only it has SO MANY GOD DAMN WEAPONS AND HIGH SPEED DUMB SHIT. It was literally made by an 18 year old wrapping up high school in case you're a newbie game designer and wanna feel inadequate. What's rad about this game besides every gun feeling like a thermonuclear bomb that somehow stays relevant to end game is that it's weirdly a great game for shooter newbies as well as boomer vets. I beat it first try on hard and had a great time but because it's more of a Catacomb/Wolf throwback it means totally new players can learn tactics and weapon switching the way we learned as kids. Now, if you can't pick out the obvious upgrades you might struggle a hair more but, I mean, come on, because this is a literal high schooler's project so it's honestly fine. But it's still damn fun and visually great if you're into that super old style. There's a demo on Steam and the full game is only 12 bucks. You seriously can't go wrong here.
Demo is on the Steam page: https://store.steampowered.com/app/893680/Project_Warlock/

They've got Project Warlock 2 in the oven that takes PW1 and refines it heavily while also moving the style up a bit in the shooter lineage. Demo available at https://store.steampowered.com/app/1640300/Project_Warlock_II/ and might be more your jam!

https://youtu.be/LbqNRDPd5_k
Imagine if Quake was actually interesting and that's Dusk. Go fast, shoot mans, and try not to die in this rednecky culty hellhole with a huge easter egg at the end if you're a Blood fan. It starts simple but...goes...places. You'll see and I ain't gonna spoil shit.
Literally just 20 bucks on Steam and is currently one of the pinnacles of the Boomer Shooter resurgence: https://store.steampowered.com/app/519860/DUSK/

https://youtu.be/JBlTTW3RRtw
YO DAWG I HEARD YOU LIKED WEIRD HERETIC SHIT
Amid Evil is a game where you're a wizard or some shit like that that needs to save a bunch of very diverse worlds. Did I mention this genre isnt't terribly narratively complicated? Also you have a staff that shoots whole ass planets and when supercharged shoots stars because fuck you that's why. Another major player in the Boomer Shooter resurgence and also the third New Blood Interactive game in this thread. Plz notice me Oshry sempai
Demo and game is available on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/673130/AMID_EVIL/

Conclusion
This thread is sloppy as shit, at least to my standards, but hopefully ya'll are interested. I have more recommendations but I'll refrain from crowding the OP with waaaay too much stuff. Let's here what you've been playing and what your recommendations are! I've got waaay more I can throw y'alls way if anyone is interested!

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TOGSolid on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Why are they called ‘boomer shooters’? Shouldn’t it be more “late gen x/early millenial” shooters?

    I would think a boomer shooter would be more like asteroids or Galaga.

    As far as classics go, if Quake era games still count - purposefully cutting things off at the release of Half-life, because while there were still probably games that qualified after most either went full arena shooter or focused more on single player with half-life like elements by that point:

    Hexen 2
    Heretic 2
    Unreal
    SIN
    Shogo: MAD
    Jedi Knight

    3d movement / six degrees of freedom games:

    Descent
    descent 2
    Forsaken

    Jealous Deva on
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    TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Back in the day, before Half-Life, before the dark times, shooters weren't about tactical experiences, or narrative, or big set pieces. They were about action and atmosphere and occasionally just being blatantly trolled by the developers.
    I've never heard the term "boomer shooter" so I might be missing something but this whole narrative is bullshit. There were definitely tactical shooters before Half-Life, like Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri, Starsiege Tribes, and Defcon 5 (and a lot that came out at basically the same time, like Rainbow 6 and Delta Force), and narrative shooters, like Strife, and big set-piece shooters, like Dark Forces II (also a narrative shooter) and Duke Nukem 3d. And it's crazy to say 2016 DooM brought back the "shoot people" genre when we had Serious Sam, Painkiller, etc. in between Half-Life and DooM 2016. Again maybe I'm missing something but this term seems to be flattening out the FPS genre in a really weird way. Are the Call of Duty games boomer shooters in terms of their multiplayer?

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    AvalonGuardAvalonGuard Registered User regular
    Boomer shooter because anything old and not an esports-wannabe-megafranchise is for boomers, apparently.

    I grew up too young late and Mormon-y to experience the true good ol days but I did get my hands on Chex quest as a young one, IT COUNTS, LAY OFF.

    I grabbed doom, doom 2 and quake for switch because portable and this semester has a real fucked schedule, so here’s hoping I can see what that shits all about soon.

    And FUCK YEAH amid evil, love that shit. Excited to see what the upcoming dlc is all about.

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    Kristmas KthulhuKristmas Kthulhu Currently Kultist Kthulhu Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Yeah I do enjoy Civvie quite a lot. He got me to try Nightmare Reaper, which is a roguelite with incredibly diverse weapons that also get random mods (think Diablo or Borderlands) that can make them feel super crazy.

    https://youtu.be/X6xxFJ7ZRq4

    They're called boomer shooters 'cause it's fun and funny.

    Kristmas Kthulhu on
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    BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    'Boomer shooter' is a sub-genre, trying to riff off an archaic style. It's like the resurgence of 80's inspired stuff; it's not actually replicating the 1980s, but what we might have fun imagining the 1980s could be. The term is also being retroactively applied to stuff like Blood and the original Doom that feel like they can be thrown into the same bucket and are the inspirations for these new games.

    Getting hung up on the term and its accuracy is both missing the point and also really boring.

    BloodySloth on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    I also honestly feel like doom 2016 lacks a lot of elements of the old shooters like doom and quake. Not that I don’t like it, but it is a modern shooter paying homage to doom, not a doom clone.

    When I think of a classic shooter the main things I think of are fast player movement, robust players (typically not one shottable or only one shottable only with sniper weapons) and an emphasis on pickups rather than recovering weapons or health directly from killed enemies.

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    AvalonGuardAvalonGuard Registered User regular
    I try not to but into EA games but I’ve got my eye on Nightmare Reaper. Looks like a good time.

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    Kristmas KthulhuKristmas Kthulhu Currently Kultist Kthulhu Registered User regular
    Yeah I put quite a few hours into Nightmare Reaper and it's crazy fun. Waiting for the full release I think before I go back.

    Also, Dusk rules like nobody's business. I haven't beaten it, but it's a real joy discover all of its hidden intricacies and string them together into speedrunning strats.

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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Ok, just for those who don't live the shitpost meme life the term Boomer Shooter grew out of the 30 year old boomer meme where some gen z kids were poking fun at the tastes of older millenials. Monster Ultra energy drinks got included for whatever reason in the meme, subsequently becoming known as Boomer Juice/Boomer Fuel, and tbh most of us older shitposters thought this was hilarious and ran with it. These got popularized further in gaming crowds with DMC 5 and Boomer Dante/Virgil memes, also featuring said Monster Ultra. So, as just a funny meme name for a genre of shooters replicating the vibe of older shooters that generally all adhere to certain ideals (like the ones @Jealous Deva listed), and also including those old shooters since by default they fit the definition of what's being defined, the term Boomer Shooter got coined. And thus that's why the OP header pic I always like to do to give my threads some pizazz has Monster Ultra energy drinks badly photoshopped into a Wolf 3D screenshot.

    Also for those that don't know Dave Oshry is the CEO of New Blood Interactive who produced Dusk and Amid Evil which did a lot to supercharge the shooter resurgence. Hence, the OP's title where I'm also poking fun at myself for being just shy of 40 and talking about old school style shooters and actual old school shooters.

    ANYWAY

    BACK TO THE SHOW

    *assorted carnival music*

    This is one of the ones I'm most excited about:
    https://youtu.be/AUN7t2RyMSs
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/964800/Prodeus/

    Just, holy fuck that's gibby and chunky as shit and looks like the sort of run and gun gorefest I absolutely love. I don't really like to buy Early Access games tho so I've just been staring at Ultrakill and this one like PLZ GIB NAOW

    TOGSolid on
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    AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Boomer Shooters? Oh man, okay, I love it.

    I've been seeing these, for some unearthly reason, explode in popularity as of late. I mean I love em, just out of all the things I thought would become a sub-genre this is not one of them.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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    BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    I've also been waiting on Prodeus but it looks fucking tight.

    Another one I've been excited about is Cultic. It's pretty much selling itself as "what if Blood took itself a tiny bit more seriously" and the demo that was released for the steam demo-fest this summer was outstanding:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_2G-RLKfio

    It could use a little more zazz for the final release (enemies are notably quiet, for one thing) but that demo was a grand ol time.

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Prodeus is fantastic. Tho I’m a creep and my main gaming place is Xbox, so I pretty much played like 2 levels on my pc and was like “ok I’m sold I love it but I’ll buy this when it’s fully released on console”

    Prohass on
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Prodeus is fucking great and everyone needs to play it.

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    TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Totally agree on Prodeus, fantastic game and it's still just in Early Access. They even announced co-op very recently. I'm a big believer in the game and have already created 4 of my own maps for it, with a 5th in the works.

    3ds: 4983-4935-4575
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    heenatoheenato Alice Leywind Registered User regular
    I liked most of what I played of Prodeus. Something about the graphical style gave me like legit eye strain though and I had to stop.

    That and also the game autosaved me while I was taking killing damage gunfire and that's not on.

    M A G I K A Z A M
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    I also honestly feel like doom 2016 lacks a lot of elements of the old shooters like doom and quake. Not that I don’t like it, but it is a modern shooter paying homage to doom, not a doom clone.

    In classic Doom, and for that matter, Doom II, an entirely viable strategy is to familiarize yourself with a level layout, find a point where you can have your back against the wall and a convenient escape route, and just shoot the shit out of a wave of a couple dozen demons as they spawn in/pop up from concealed platforms, etc. There are exceptions, but there are always exceptions (a boss arena that is only one large area, and your own spawnpoint is in the middle of it, for example).

    It's absolutely a way to play Doom, especially if you were only using a keyboard, in 1993. Not the best way, and it basically doesn't work on Nightmare, but for the rest of us mere mortals in Hurt me Plenty and Ultra-Violent, it's definitely feasible with a little planning in the large majority of maps, especially given how much architecture boils down to "patterned corridors".

    You can't do this that often in Doom 2016. There's too much "Oh, here's a bunch of platforms you need to double-jump across," and the rooms are larger in general (by comparison, you literally could not jump in Doom without rocket assistance). You can't do it at all in Doom Eternal, or at least it feels that way, with the game adhering much more dogmatically to a specific number of engagements with a group of enemies, and virtually nothing in between them (unlike classic Doom, where you can always expect to run into an imp or two just moving through a corridor). I know some people prefer that change, but it was one of my biggest complaints about DE.

    Quake, quite obviously, is very different. It plays completely differently than Doom did, or at least it feels that way to me.

    Synthesis on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Quake is pretty different due to the reliance on stronger enemies that are much more individually dangerous but fewer in number. It does occasionally do the spawn in or hidden location enemies though. The biggest thing about quake is that the basic enemies in non-base maps are ogres and death knights, and those guys will absolutely fuck you up if you aren’t constantly moving. Its a lot like if doom was built around revenants and hell knights. The mission packs do work in some more group spam scenarios (with things like base enemies and knights).

    In a lot of modern shooters you couldn’t have an enemy like the ogre that gets spammed like it is in quake because you just don’t move fast enough to reliably dodge area of effect attacks. In old doom you can sit and turret at times, quake thats a big no-no, but in old doom you do have the tools to play it quake-style with dodging and running around if you need to. I felt like doom 2016 it was harder to do that even if it was fast pace because you are still very limited by player speed which is very low compared to old doom and quake.

    Jealous Deva on
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I figured "boomer shooter" was just because Boomer became a generic term for "Old"

    Dusk is great and Amid Evil legit has some of the best weapons I've ever seen in a shooter and a campaign structure that does not wear out it's welcome. Can't wait for that DLC. Project Warlock was simple but loads of fun and the sequel looks impressive in that it's translating the 2D art to 3D very faithfully.

    The recent Quake remaster was also very good. The changes they made to Nightmare mode were interesting and add a bit of challenge to the game, and the slightly updated 3D models look great without looking like they don't belong. Insanely good value for $10, especially given it includes both original expansion, the map pack put out by Machine Games a few years back, and a whole new campaign.

    The Doom/Doom II/Doom 64 re-releases are pretty solid too, and include a lot of fan releases, including John Romero's new Doom episode, Sigil. John Romeo is apparently working on Sigil II for Doom 2, so that should be awesome.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Played through Dissolution of Eternity in the quake remaster. It wasn’t quite up to par with Scourge of Armagon, but what is really? I felt like the first episode was a but mediocre but by the second episode the expansion really found its voice and a lot of the later levels were very interesting. Dragon boss was interesting, either a very tough but winnable fight it you play it straight or very easy if you cheese the geometry of the level. I liked a lot of the miniboss enemies that pop up especially in the last episode, it breaks up having to fight the same 7 or 8 enemies over and over.

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    heenatoheenato Alice Leywind Registered User regular
    I played through the quake remaster recently myself and I honestly think scourge of armagon was the best part. Like even including vanilla quake. Part of it is the fact that Scourge uses a single spawn in the entire game (Two if on nightmare) while everything else just has way too many. Plus the new weapons in scourge balanced it out a bit so you wouldn't JUST be using the rocket launcher for the entire game.

    I am honestly much less charitable to like everything else in quake. I ended up not really liking quake all that much

    M A G I K A Z A M
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    BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    I really loved the level design in dimension of the machine, but it was screaming for some new weapons or enemies or something. Even just taking some of the additions from the mission packs would have gone a long way.

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    heenatoheenato Alice Leywind Registered User regular
    I hate that nothing but scourge used the laser gun. The game was screaming for a second weapon to use energy cells but it just doesn't give you one.

    M A G I K A Z A M
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    The weapon selection is definitely the weakest part of quake to me. I actually really like the dodgy gameplay and higher hp enemies but I wasn’t a great fan of ep 4 and dimensions of the past is falling pretty flat for me after the mission packs. I may just try out dimensions of the machine and if that doesn’t click move on.

    Like I really like the quake gameplay but am just tired of the same weapons and enemies over and over. It doesn’t really help that the first few levels of dimensions of the past have felt very paint by numbers. “Here’s a hub with corridors that lead to keys.” “Here’s a doom 2 section with a bunch of enemies in a box across a bridge to shoot at you” etc.

    Jealous Deva on
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    Quake just never seemed super interesting to me. I recognize its importance technically but it just never looked particularly fun and after the awesome sprite animations in prior games, going to just a box on a box and calling it a rocket launcher or a few boxes stuck together for a nail gun is just so meh. Just the entire visual vibe of that game was never appealing.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    They updated the models in the remaster to have more detail and definition.

    Undead Scottsman on
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    BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    I love Quake and y'all are haters

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    They updated the models in the remaster to have more detail and definition.

    But also not enough that they don't still mesh with the rest of the game.

    They're polished up just enough so they look like how you remember them, not what they actually looked like. Although the originals are still available as an option.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Finished dimensions of the past… I felt like it got better after the first few levels but still felt fairly spammy and just ok. I don’t regret playing it but it was very much worthy of a shrug…

    Now on to dimensions of the machine..

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    schussschuss Registered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Quake just never seemed super interesting to me. I recognize its importance technically but it just never looked particularly fun and after the awesome sprite animations in prior games, going to just a box on a box and calling it a rocket launcher or a few boxes stuck together for a nail gun is just so meh. Just the entire visual vibe of that game was never appealing.

    I felt the same until I played it. The movement in the quake series is unreal (ha!). I still remember brain-melting rounds of Q3A with people just flying, shooting and speeding everywhere with milliseconds dividing death and domination.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    So interestingly enough GOG just put out Star Trek:Elite Force 1 and 2. I’m not sure if they technically qualify as a boomer shooter or not, but imagine someone made a narrative single player total conversion of quake 3 and made it star trek themed for some reason. Also one game was by the dev team that did hexen 2 and Jedi knight 2: Jedi outcast, and the other was by the developer that did Scourge of Armagon and Sin.

    As a side note while Elite Force 1 did pretty well Elite force 2 was a commercial flop (despite being similar in quality to the first game), as enterprise and Star Trek Nemesis had just come out in the previous two years and killed the Star Trek brand dead. This actually led to Activision sueing paramount with the argument that their shitty treatment of the Star Trek franchise killed the game. They probably had a point. Unfortunately the poor performance of the game (which was actually quite good) also killed Ritual financially as a game developer.

    Jealous Deva on
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Quake just never seemed super interesting to me. I recognize its importance technically but it just never looked particularly fun and after the awesome sprite animations in prior games, going to just a box on a box and calling it a rocket launcher or a few boxes stuck together for a nail gun is just so meh. Just the entire visual vibe of that game was never appealing.

    I felt the same until I played it. The movement in the quake series is unreal (ha!). I still remember brain-melting rounds of Q3A with people just flying, shooting and speeding everywhere with milliseconds dividing death and domination.

    Oh, Q3A was a ton of fun. I've got zero hate for that game and spent a lot of time in it, CPMA, and the general mod scene. I mean just the first Quake.

    FINALLY

    Time to piss on her grave virtually.

    wWuzwvJ.png
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Quake just never seemed super interesting to me. I recognize its importance technically but it just never looked particularly fun and after the awesome sprite animations in prior games, going to just a box on a box and calling it a rocket launcher or a few boxes stuck together for a nail gun is just so meh. Just the entire visual vibe of that game was never appealing.

    I felt the same until I played it. The movement in the quake series is unreal (ha!). I still remember brain-melting rounds of Q3A with people just flying, shooting and speeding everywhere with milliseconds dividing death and domination.

    Oh, Q3A was a ton of fun. I've got zero hate for that game and spent a lot of time in it, CPMA, and the general mod scene. I mean just the first Quake.

    FINALLY

    Time to piss on her grave virtually.

    The first quake is basically just quake 3 with no railgun, worse graphics, and single player though?

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Playing thought that Quake remaster.

    ..man, the enemies in the game are spongy as hell. Or the weapons are weak. Taking 4-5 double barrel shotgun blasts to down a ogre is a bit tiring.

    Also Scourge of Armagon is a weird expansion. Like, level-wise is it's a welcome evolution of Quake, but difficulty-wise they just decided to throw hordes of Shamblers and Vores at the player. It's funny two, because while two of the new enemies are definitely more of the "fuck you" difficulty. (They added the fucking drones from Duke Nukem 3D. I see you, former 3D Realms devs.) and the main new enemy, the gremlins, are the least threatening creatures in the entire game, except maybe the dogs. You can mow down hordes of them without taking any damage.

    Also the boss was trivially easy to get stuck on a pillar.

    Undead Scottsman on
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Quake just never seemed super interesting to me. I recognize its importance technically but it just never looked particularly fun and after the awesome sprite animations in prior games, going to just a box on a box and calling it a rocket launcher or a few boxes stuck together for a nail gun is just so meh. Just the entire visual vibe of that game was never appealing.

    I felt the same until I played it. The movement in the quake series is unreal (ha!). I still remember brain-melting rounds of Q3A with people just flying, shooting and speeding everywhere with milliseconds dividing death and domination.

    Oh, Q3A was a ton of fun. I've got zero hate for that game and spent a lot of time in it, CPMA, and the general mod scene. I mean just the first Quake.

    FINALLY

    Time to piss on her grave virtually.

    The first quake is basically just quake 3 with no railgun, worse graphics, and single player though?

    To be fair, in 1996 I just moved to Southeast Alaska and internet there was a little....iffy and it took a few years for us to get anything usable for internet gaming so I never got to play Q1 MP. I'm sure that would have been fun but I'm judging Q1 purely on its SP component just cause lolinternet. My bad for not stating that earlier.

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    TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Quake just never seemed super interesting to me. I recognize its importance technically but it just never looked particularly fun and after the awesome sprite animations in prior games, going to just a box on a box and calling it a rocket launcher or a few boxes stuck together for a nail gun is just so meh. Just the entire visual vibe of that game was never appealing.

    I felt the same until I played it. The movement in the quake series is unreal (ha!). I still remember brain-melting rounds of Q3A with people just flying, shooting and speeding everywhere with milliseconds dividing death and domination.

    Oh, Q3A was a ton of fun. I've got zero hate for that game and spent a lot of time in it, CPMA, and the general mod scene. I mean just the first Quake.

    FINALLY

    Time to piss on her grave virtually.

    The first quake is basically just quake 3 with no railgun, worse graphics, and single player though?

    The movement is completely different between the two games. Weapon-wise, Quake1 is all about Rocket Launcher/Lightning Gun with other guns having very limited use while Quake3 is rail dominant and the other guns have more use. The shotgun in Quake3, for example, is still fairly useful. The starting gun, the machine gun in Quake3, is ridiculously powerful while the boomstick/single shotgun in Quake1 is nearly useless. Quake1 has instant weapon switch, Quake3 doesn't. Quake1 has a tiered armored system, Quake3 doesn't. In Quake 1, the red armor reduces far more damage (and allows a much higher total armor value) then the yellow, and light blue armors. In Quake3, the only difference in armors is the amount they give you, which is 50 for yellow, 100 for red, 5 for shards (and some mods added the jacket from Quake2 which adds 25). Quake1 you also spawn with 100 health vs. Quake3 which is 125 (i believe), so you can't get insta-killed on spawn by any weapon.

    So yeah, there are quite a few differences...

    3ds: 4983-4935-4575
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Playing thought that Quake remaster.

    ..man, the enemies in the game are spongy as hell. Or the weapons are weak. Taking 4-5 double barrel shotgun blasts to down a ogre is a bit tiring.

    Also Scourge of Armagon is a weird expansion. Like, level-wise is it's a welcome evolution of Quake, but difficulty-wise they just decided to throw hordes of Shamblers and Vores at the player. It's funny two, because while two of the new enemies are definitely more of the "fuck you" difficulty. (They added the fucking drones from Duke Nukem 3D. I see you, former 3D Realms devs.) and the main new enemy, the gremlins, are the least threatening creatures in the entire game, except maybe the dogs. You can mow down hordes of them without taking any damage.

    Also the boss was trivially easy to get stuck on a pillar.

    If you think Scourge is bad for Shamblers and Vores I got some bad news about the Dimension levels…

    Eventually though you get used to them and they aren’t much harder to put down than ogres and hell knights. I’m a lot more scared of a surprise pair of fiends than a pair of vores.

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    TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    I guess now that we have this thread, I can talk about them here instead of the GOG thread, but I've been playing through the Bungie Marathon games recently (all of which are available free via Alpeh One: https://alephone.lhowon.org/), and currently about halfway through the 3rd one after completing the first 2. I'm...not so much liking the 3rd one. Supposedly it was originally supposed to just be a level pack for Marathon 2, but got released as its own game. I'm finding the levels just frustrating as hell as I progress. The maps are far bigger and complex than the previous 2 games (like taking the name of the game literally) and often I'm just trying to figure out where the fuck you're supposed to go. I've had to look at videos for a couple levels already because I was running around aimlessly for what felt like 30 min or longer and just could not figure out what to do. I just don't find these big levels very intuitive or designed that well.

    3ds: 4983-4935-4575
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Playing Thatcher's Techbase and this thing is a trip. It's riding a very thin line between shitpost and serious doom map and weirdly doing it well.

    Archviles can still fuck off tho

    EDIT: Mild hint - At some point you're gonna get to a room with no apparent way out. Turns out you need to shoot the flags to proceed.

    Beat Thatcher's TechBase:

    Overall I had a pretty good time riiight up until the big ending. It's one big map and at one point it double backs in a way you weren't expecting which impressed the hell out of me. The level design was fun with some neat thematic areas and generally the wad was good times just...yeah...that ending:
    The two final boss fights are just absolute meat grinders and not in a fun way. Up to those points the game had been pretty well balanced out. Challenging but not oppressively dickish. The final two bosses tho. YEE LAD THAT'S ROUGH. The CyberthatcherSpider is a nasty slog but the Icon of Thatcher is a switch hunt with infinitely spawning enemies where you don't know it's a switch hunt which plays out as frustrating as it sounds.

    TOGSolid on
    wWuzwvJ.png
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Wow shit Dimensions of the Machine is awesome. Total improvement over Dimensions of the Past.

    Only complaint is it would have been nice to either add a new weapon or two or some more enemy types (or even just being in some scorpions and wraiths from the mission packs) but thats really just a quibble.

    That Cathedral though…. And a space level that doesn’t suck…. And the boss fight was a cool new take on a classic.


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