I didn't get back to trials, mostly because one of the weekly goals is to get the gambit ornament for Ascendancy, which means resetting gambit rank TWICE. I'm no fan of Gambit; I usually play my three matches and get out. After grinding most of the weekend on that one mode, I'm seeing about a rank per day advancement. So that means I should have that ornament with another two weeks of dedicated playtime. I may run out of incentive before then.
In other news, I finished step 6 (out of 8) of the Splicer storyline. I can see why people were so jazzed about that season! It's a really cool story (at least so far) and the event is not terrible. I'm actually enjoying it more than the Wrathborne Hunts and the Battleground events. Some of the legacy triumph goals are stupid though... like 'Wear Splicer armor whilst doing the event'. I mean, I guess I'll do it, but I'm not going to like it, and I will likely be counting down to get that one done!
There's one of those damn "wear the armour" triumphs every season and they are always annoying.
Season of the Chosen's was the worst as I remember.
I didn't get back to trials, mostly because one of the weekly goals is to get the gambit ornament for Ascendancy, which means resetting gambit rank TWICE. I'm no fan of Gambit; I usually play my three matches and get out. After grinding most of the weekend on that one mode, I'm seeing about a rank per day advancement. So that means I should have that ornament with another two weeks of dedicated playtime. I may run out of incentive before then.
I mean play however you want, but it's probably better to just wait until the double rep week rolls around. With a season this long, we probably still have a couple to go.
I didn't get back to trials, mostly because one of the weekly goals is to get the gambit ornament for Ascendancy, which means resetting gambit rank TWICE. I'm no fan of Gambit; I usually play my three matches and get out. After grinding most of the weekend on that one mode, I'm seeing about a rank per day advancement. So that means I should have that ornament with another two weeks of dedicated playtime. I may run out of incentive before then.
I mean play however you want, but it's probably better to just wait until the double rep week rolls around. With a season this long, we probably still have a couple to go.
It's even worse than that. They have no idea what the fuck they're doing with "Streaks". They are just the continuous games of gambit you've played without doing anything else. The best way to grind out Gambit ranks is, by far, to wait for one of those double Gambit weeks and then just sit and play for like forty games doing nothing but occasionally hitting the tower to empty out inventory. Then don't bother touching it ever again.
It is a horrible experience that just feels bad top to bottom.
They did the same thing with Strikes. I like strikes and I still have only hit one reset. Knowing that dropping in and playing a strike because I have like 15 minutes to kill is the worse way to get rep just really hurts it. Streaks should break for shitty behaviors and basically only that.
Did some youtube allstar say witherhoard is the new shit, because I see it constantly now.
Also, rift's animations are fucking agonizingly long. So are a lot of supers, and for those I get why, but it's fucking annoying to watch the windup while under fire. JUST THROW THE FUCKING NOVA BOMB YOU POSER.
Freelance Trials is entirely antithetical to the core idea of "gather your fireteam and try your best" that Trials has been since its inception.
All the positive feedback and criticism towards Freelance from players championing the mode seems to me that, ultimately, these players don't want to play "Trials" at all, and never did. They just want to play the existing SBMM-based Elimination node in Crucible with much, much better rewards, draped in the prestige of an "event". And that's entirely valid.
So I don't know what Bungie should take from this, about what "Trials" should be.
But it does seem abundantly obvious that it Bungie creates a bunch of awesome loot, designs a reliable way to earn that loot, and makes it accessible to players of all skill levels, then players will happily participate. Maybe Bungie should consider that.
...you do realize the normal playlist is right there and having another way for folks to interact with something differently than you prefer to doesn't prevent your preferred way, right?
I'll never understand the resistance to something you don't have to do just because it doesn't meet your definition of what something should be.
Freelance Trials is entirely antithetical to the core idea of "gather your fireteam and try your best" that Trials has been since its inception.
All the positive feedback and criticism towards Freelance from players championing the mode seems to me that, ultimately, these players don't want to play "Trials" at all, and never did. They just want to play the existing SBMM-based Elimination node in Crucible with much, much better rewards, draped in the prestige of an "event". And that's entirely valid.
So I don't know what Bungie should take from this, about what "Trials" should be.
But it does seem abundantly obvious that it Bungie creates a bunch of awesome loot, designs a reliable way to earn that loot, and makes it accessible to players of all skill levels, then players will happily participate. Maybe Bungie should consider that.
...you do realize the normal playlist is right there and having another way for folks to interact with something differently than you prefer to doesn't prevent your preferred way, right?
I'll never understand the resistance to something you don't have to do just because it doesn't meet your definition of what something should be.
Definitely makes the game harder for lower tier teams, playing solo in an endgame PvP mode will likely never been fun unless you just enjoy end game PvP, etc
Yeah as much as I love the freelance trials mode, it does possibly create some nasty population splits.
In theory, no one should ever go into the main playlist solo if freelance exists, if they want a fair fight. This is a problem for any 2-stack going into the main mode, how do you give them a reasonable queue time if there arent any solo players to round out their team? You would almost need to force the playlists to be "premade 3-stacks only" and "all solo only" for this to work out.
Depending on how this weekend shakes out, it might just be better to have one unified playlist that has some level of SBMM+card based MM turned on to prevent super crazy blowouts
To clarify, this is Saint-14's dialogue. This is what Trials is about. So when I say that a solo-only playlist is antithetical to the core philosophy of Trials, the text is right there, in-game.
I agree, broadly speaking, that Trials as a mode is fundamentally problematic. That Bungie needs to rain loot on players so they feel rewarded at all skill levels. That Bungie needs to "fudge" the matchmaking so lower end players can have exciting, competitive matches, and high end players shouldn't be able to go on massive win spree stomp fests. That a sizeable percentage players going flawless each weekend is kinda cool actually.
But at some point the mode no longer adheres to its own philosophy. And a freelance Trials playlist is an inherent contradiction to that core Trials philosophy. So the question again goes to Bungie, what is Trials supposed to be?
There is a huge reason for someone to queue the normal playlist - so they can play with their fireteam. And hey, now they get to do it against other fireteams consistently instead of curbstomping randoms to the lighthouse because their matchmaking is awful.
That is the arguement, right? The spirit of trials is gathering your fireteam for high level PvP? If that's the case, this mode supports that more because its fostering actual fireteam v fireteam high level play instead of lopsided bloodbaths. And while yes it may spread the population out, the theory (at least) is it also increases the population to compensate. We'll see how the numbers pan out I guess.
Its a game mode, not a philosophy. And this structure allows the fireteams to fight fireteams, and the solo players to participate too.
Its really hard to read it as anything but "No, mine!" Or sour grapes that matches are going to be more balanced now. Sorry.
EDIT: i do get the 2 stack point, though. That point is a pickle for sure.
EDIT 2: I also still think making it so the solo queue isn't Lighthouse enabled would solve all remaining concerns. If you want to go to the Lighthouse, you have to regular queue. That would help the 2 stack problem and the population concern as folks who care about getting there would be forced out of the freelance and back into the regular line. Folks who are looking to solo queue for rep, win, and quest rewards can still do that. Everyone wins.
EDIT 2: I also still think making it so the solo queue isn't Lighthouse enabled would solve all remaining concerns. If you want to go to the Lighthouse, you have to regular queue. That would help the 2 stack problem and the population concern as folks who care about getting there would be forced out of the freelance and back into the regular line. Folks who are looking to solo queue for rep, win, and quest rewards can still do that. Everyone wins.
The rage would be astronomical if you disabled Lighthouse in the solo queue.
Three of my raid teammates went to the Lighthouse solo in the solo queue. This is helpful as I'm currently trapped in a New World vortex and others have slowed down playing since we got our last person his Vex Mythoclast finally.
You might as well get rid of solo queue if the Lighthouse is disabled.
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I think Trials, just normal everyone in the pool good luck and godspeed Trials, would be fine if the overall PvP landscape weren't so utterly barren. I'm not dismissing anyone's argument or point of view, but I think we're reduced to fighting over Trials scraps because there's nothing else even remotely new or worth chasing in PvP. There's no progression ladder for new or new-to-PvP players, no meaningful ranked play, and maps and loot that are stale at best, and I think if people had a way to make meaningful PvP strides (both in loot and skilll) they could have Trials the way it is and the fire around it would be less hot. Maybe that's just me being optimistic but it's how I feel.
I think Trials, just normal everyone in the pool good luck and godspeed Trials, would be fine if the overall PvP landscape weren't so utterly barren. I'm not dismissing anyone's argument or point of view, but I think we're reduced to fighting over Trials scraps because there's nothing else even remotely new or worth chasing in PvP. There's no progression ladder for new or new-to-PvP players, no meaningful ranked play, and maps and loot that are stale at best, and I think if people had a way to make meaningful PvP strides (both in loot and skilll) they could have Trials the way it is and the fire around it would be less hot. Maybe that's just me being optimistic but it's how I feel.
This is pretty accurate, imho.
On the rage thing if Lighthouse was disabled for solo, I'd be fine with it? And I'm like the target audience for solo queue.
Seems perfectly reasonable to expect trade offs. If you want a less dick smashed in a car door experience as a solo player, in a mode designed for 3v3, you can get it but with less reward potential. You want the really tasty stuff? Get in there full-bore.
The whole point of Trials is to try and go flawless, though. All of the other items you mentioned (rep, engram rewards, etc.) doesn't require a solo queue and with no solo queue, some of the solo players are good enough to carry two lumps to victories over 3-stacks. Happened all the time in prior weeks.
I really don't see the point of a solo queue with the main achievement of Trials, the Lighthouse, being disabled.
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The whole point of Trials is to try and go flawless, though. All of the other items you mentioned (rep, engram rewards, etc.) doesn't require a solo queue and with no solo queue, some of the solo players are good enough to carry two lumps to victories over 3-stacks. Happened all the time in prior weeks.
I really don't see the point of a solo queue with the main achievement of Trials, the Lighthouse, being disabled.
This is the problem.
The whole point is to go flawless.
For you.
Not everyone plays the same or for the ssme goals. Nor do they have to.
Not everyone plays the same or for the ssme goals. Nor do they have to.
It's not the point from me, it's literally the point of Trials. From Bungie.
As for the rest, you were talking about playing for engrams / rep etc. You can do that in the normal queue when no solo one exists. You can play it with no goal to get to the Lighthouse whether the Lighthouse is disabled or not.
Additionally, getting smashed by a 3-stack or getting smashed by three excellent solo players is going to happen regardless. It may help psychologically to go "Well, we got smashed, but at least they didn't use voice comms!", but the smashing will happen regardless.
[edit]Changing things for purely psychological reasons is fine and even should be done, of course, but my main point is that there will still be lopsided matches whether your opponents are solo or stacked.
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Not everyone plays the same or for the ssme goals. Nor do they have to.
It's not the point from me, it's literally the point of Trials. From Bungie.
As for the rest, you were talking about playing for engrams / rep etc. You can do that in the normal queue when no solo one exists. You can play it with no goal to get to the Lighthouse whether the Lighthouse is disabled or not.
Additionally, getting smashed by a 3-stack or getting smashed by three excellent solo players is going to happen regardless. It may help psychologically to go "Well, we got smashed, but at least they didn't use voice comms!", but the smashing will happen regardless.
[edit]Changing things for purely psychological reasons is fine and even should be done, of course, but my main point is that there will still be lopsided matches whether your opponents are solo or stacked.
I'm glad that Bungie seems to agree that we should be able to play for the rep and win rewards and have it actually be somewhat fun versus your version of if you aren't gunning for lighthouse you are doing it wrong.
More player choice is ALWAYS good. Just look at the participation numbers Trials had before. This kind of constrictive, there is only one right way to play junk is how player communities die.
One half of the population wants to play "Trials of Osiris", the pseudo-tournament mode where teamwork, skill and a little luck will lead to a flawless passage, the Lighthouse, glowing armor and adept rewards. The other half of the population wants low-stakes, solo-friendly, balanced matchmaking so they can earn cool Space Egyptian armor and weapons and plenty of upgrade materials. It's the same mode, but not the same experience.
Right now Freelance doesn't have skill-based matchmaking. That means three gilded Flawless players could easily match against three bronze Elo players at the whims of matchmaking. And it has to be this way for "flawless" to be a viable goal in Freelance, as the flawless chances would be an unrealistic ~1% in a purely SBMM mode. The lack of SBMM is another of Trials' rough edges that Bungie's been sanding off to give the mode broader appeal. And if Bungie sands off too many rough edges from Trials, then Trials becomes a redundant, fancy Elimination with infinitely better rewards.
My perspective on this is that we already have SBMM Survival and Freelance Survival modes. I'd rather see Bungie instead give the Survival modes the love and attention that Trials and Iron Banner get. Unique armor and unique weapons with their own visual theme. A unique announcer and in-game lore tied to mode so it feels like an integral part of the Destiny universe. The reception to Freelance Trials shows that there's an audience eager for this experience.
As far as Trials itself goes, keep it as one playlist, one population. But the compromise is that the matchmaker should never match a full team against three solo players. Every other composition is fair game. Full teams will always play other full teams or a duo+solo.
I'm glad that Bungie seems to agree that we should be able to play for the rep and win rewards and have it actually be somewhat fun versus your version of if you aren't gunning for lighthouse you are doing it wrong.
More player choice is ALWAYS good. Just look at the participation numbers Trials had before. This kind of constrictive, there is only one right way to play junk is how player communities die.
You're twisting or misinterpreting what I was saying. All I said was disabling Lighthouse in the solo mode was a mistake, essentially, and if you disabled it you're taking away a big part of what Trials is.
As far as Trials itself goes, keep it as one playlist, one population. But the compromise is that the matchmaker should never match a full team against three solo players. Every other composition is fair game. Full teams will always play other full teams or a duo+solo.
Now that's a good idea for a Lab.
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One half of the population wants to play "Trials of Osiris", the pseudo-tournament mode where teamwork, skill and a little luck will lead to a flawless passage, the Lighthouse, glowing armor and adept rewards. The other half of the population wants low-stakes, solo-friendly, balanced matchmaking so they can earn cool Space Egyptian armor and weapons and plenty of upgrade materials. It's the same mode, but not the same experience.
Right now Freelance doesn't have skill-based matchmaking. That means three gilded Flawless players could easily match against three bronze Elo players at the whims of matchmaking. And it has to be this way for "flawless" to be a viable goal in Freelance, as the flawless chances would be an unrealistic ~1% in a purely SBMM mode. The lack of SBMM is another of Trials' rough edges that Bungie's been sanding off to give the mode broader appeal. And if Bungie sands off too many rough edges from Trials, then Trials becomes a redundant, fancy Elimination with infinitely better rewards.
My perspective on this is that we already have SBMM Survival and Freelance Survival modes. I'd rather see Bungie instead give the Survival modes the love and attention that Trials and Iron Banner get. Unique armor and unique weapons with their own visual theme. A unique announcer and in-game lore tied to mode so it feels like an integral part of the Destiny universe. The reception to Freelance Trials shows that there's an audience eager for this experience.
As far as Trials itself goes, keep it as one playlist, one population. But the compromise is that the matchmaker should never match a full team against three solo players. Every other composition is fair game. Full teams will always play other full teams or a duo+solo.
I honestly agree with almost all of this. If those modes had the loot attention Trials does, there would be no need to participate and that's where I (and other players like me probably) would be.
As is, I'm glad there is a way to do it that isn't excruciating.
@Bizazedo Not intending to twist your words, if I am I apologize.
WoW went through some of this, they added LFR which was an "easy" mode raiding for matchmade groups. Initially you got a different colour of armor for each tier of raid, but the basic visuals were the same. Later they made LFR raid armor looked like shit, and the special looking armor was relegated to normal/hard/mythic level raids - and that feels bad. I'm not a big PVP person, I get my golfball and my pinnacles, but honestly, who does it hurt to allow ALL players to see the lighthouse?
I can't see them adding special loot to the other modes, they barely do that for things now - gambit, strikes, crucible - it's all the same thing with a slightly different colour and it looks like shit anyways. "I added some fucking water bottles to the gloves. TIME FOR LUNCH!"
WoW went through some of this, they added LFR which was an "easy" mode raiding for matchmade groups. Initially you got a different colour of armor for each tier of raid, but the basic visuals were the same. Later they made LFR raid armor looked like shit, and the special looking armor was relegated to normal/hard/mythic level raids - and that feels bad. I'm not a big PVP person, I get my golfball and my pinnacles, but honestly, who does it hurt to allow ALL players to see the lighthouse?
I can't see them adding special loot to the other modes, they barely do that for things now - gambit, strikes, crucible - it's all the same thing with a slightly different colour and it looks like shit anyways. "I added some fucking water bottles to the gloves. TIME FOR LUNCH!"
Regarding the bolded, that's another of those, "what does Bungie want Trials to be" questions. Trials of the Nine actually did that. Everyone with at least one win could visit the social space and the farther you got, the more of the space you could explore. There wasn't much to do there, but it was pretty neat!
If Bungie wants to open up the Lighthouse to anyone who completes a passage, I could get onboard with that. Just save the adept rewards for flawless runs.
In theory, now that trials is fully behind a paywall it should get good new shit fairly often.
That’s the reason they don’t seem to give a fuck about crucible/strike/gambit content beyond the single new gun/shader/emblem, it’s free to play content and they aren’t going to work on it unless it’s in service of some paid dlc, where the scraps can be thrown to the freebies (ex: battlegrounds being made strikes).
In theory, now that trials is fully behind a paywall it should get good new shit fairly often.
That’s the reason they don’t seem to give a fuck about crucible/strike/gambit content beyond the single new gun/shader/emblem, it’s free to play content and they aren’t going to work on it unless it’s in service of some paid dlc, where the scraps can be thrown to the freebies (ex: battlegrounds being made strikes).
RE: your first line jjonahjamesonlaughing.gif goes here.
IDK, believe it when I see it. I mean, I hope it happens but uh...
WoW went through some of this, they added LFR which was an "easy" mode raiding for matchmade groups. Initially you got a different colour of armor for each tier of raid, but the basic visuals were the same. Later they made LFR raid armor looked like shit, and the special looking armor was relegated to normal/hard/mythic level raids - and that feels bad. I'm not a big PVP person, I get my golfball and my pinnacles, but honestly, who does it hurt to allow ALL players to see the lighthouse?
I can't see them adding special loot to the other modes, they barely do that for things now - gambit, strikes, crucible - it's all the same thing with a slightly different colour and it looks like shit anyways. "I added some fucking water bottles to the gloves. TIME FOR LUNCH!"
Regarding the bolded, that's another of those, "what does Bungie want Trials to be" questions. Trials of the Nine actually did that. Everyone with at least one win could visit the social space and the farther you got, the more of the space you could explore. There wasn't much to do there, but it was pretty neat!
If Bungie wants to open up the Lighthouse to anyone who completes a passage, I could get onboard with that. Just save the adept rewards for flawless runs.
The tiered social space in Trials of the Nine was by far its best feature and it's one they should bring back for more modes because it's a cool idea. Like re-introduce Felwinter's Peak and let people get to different areas as they advance in Iron Banner rank or whatever, put Aida in charge of an actual armory that you can use gunsmith parts to open different areas in, I'm not asking for much but any progression beyond "dump tokens into a machine for random crappy rolls" would be nice.
You can't just put new loot in other pools and solve the issue. People want the Trials loot specifically. Comp could also use some actual reason to play it but that doesn't solve the issue with Trials. It doesn't matter what loot Comp has, people will still want a Messenger.
And fundamentally this isn't a player expectation issue anyway. Trials needs the low skill players to be lubricant for the Trials experience. And those players are probably going to complain at just getting shat on constantly.
The core problem is Trials as a 7-wins-flawless format doesn't work but the community is probably too invested to actually change it.
In theory, now that trials is fully behind a paywall it should get good new shit fairly often.
That’s the reason they don’t seem to give a fuck about crucible/strike/gambit content beyond the single new gun/shader/emblem, it’s free to play content and they aren’t going to work on it unless it’s in service of some paid dlc, where the scraps can be thrown to the freebies (ex: battlegrounds being made strikes).
RE: your first line jjonahjamesonlaughing.gif goes here.
IDK, believe it when I see it. I mean, I hope it happens but uh...
Yeah, on a practical level I agree with you, but also the mode has gotten more armor and weapons in the last year and a half then all of the free to play modes.
May not be enough new stuff for what it should be, but still doing better than the baseline.
Huh, yeah, I guess I never considered the 'before times' where the only rewards for wins and, ultimately, going flawless. There was literally no good reason to play trials unless you could reliably go flawless. Ergo, not a whole lot of people cared or tried (relatively).
Now there are other carrots which aren't "literally flawless or bust", so now you've split the population on what they individually want from trials.
There's a bunch of folks who actually want SBMM so they get closer to 50% wins because they'll never go flawless and they know it but want decent loot, and people who take trials at its original intent where flawless kind of has to suck for the vast majority in order for it to function as a concept.
The rewards for just trying were meant to encourage folks who fell into the second category to keep trying, but instead it created this glut of people from the first category who were just excited pvp was offering any meaningful rewards at all.
I just realized my earlier comments about solo vs team playlist trials and what happens to duos already exists, with the survival playlist. I would how that problem gets handled there, is is purely on the strength/ignorance of people clicking the wrong button?
Also, if freelance trials sticks around, there probably needs to be a much more strict/harsh light requirement for entry (unless you scrap the power levels being active entirely). Too many losses this weekend have been because I had someone at under 1310 who just gets demolished before they even do damage. Set the requirement to at least the blue hard cap of that season.
Edit:
Further comments on the power level thing, I realize saying “you can only be tween 1320 and 1330 light here” seems like a narrow window, but if you remove the requirement entirely it would let sunset weapons back in. Maybe a contest-mode like modifier needs to exist? Must have a gear-only score above 1290, but having anything above that does nothing for you?
Huh, yeah, I guess I never considered the 'before times' where the only rewards for wins and, ultimately, going flawless. There was literally no good reason to play trials unless you could reliably go flawless. Ergo, not a whole lot of people cared or tried (relatively).
Now there are other carrots which aren't "literally flawless or bust", so now you've split the population on what they individually want from trials.
There's a bunch of folks who actually want SBMM so they get closer to 50% wins because they'll never go flawless and they know it but want decent loot, and people who take trials at its original intent where flawless kind of has to suck for the vast majority in order for it to function as a concept.
The rewards for just trying were meant to encourage folks who fell into the second category to keep trying, but instead it created this glut of people from the first category who were just excited pvp was offering any meaningful rewards at all.
Yeah, I've been playing since the first stress test and I don't remember this at all. Hell, my warlock in D1 has the Batman helm and never got CLOSE to the Lighthouse.
I think there may be some revisionist history going on.
The problem that they ran into with Trials in D2 from the start was the fact that they got rid of post match drops in favor of tokens. IMHO that was really fucking stupid because in D1 you could just play Trials and eventually you'd get enough post match drops that you'd have everything, I have full sets of the old Trials armor (Non Cat Version) for all of my D1 characters despite mostly getting pooped on in Trials and never ever going flawless.
Tokens (or now XP towards engrams) are awful because for lower skilled players they take forever to accumulate and make the whole thing feel like the awful grind that it is and they become largely meaningless for higher skilled players because they win enough to get what they want and after that they're just superfluous.
The problem that they ran into with Trials in D2 from the start was the fact that they got rid of post match drops in favor of tokens. IMHO that was really fucking stupid because in D1 you could just play Trials and eventually you'd get enough post match drops that you'd have everything, I have full sets of the old Trials armor (Non Cat Version) for all of my D1 characters despite mostly getting pooped on in Trials and never ever going flawless.
Tokens (or now XP towards engrams) are awful because for lower skilled players they take forever to accumulate and make the whole thing feel like the awful grind that it is and they become largely meaningless for higher skilled players because they win enough to get what they want and after that they're just superfluous.
When new Trials first dropped in Season of the Worthy you couldn't even use your tokens unless you got 3 wins.
The problem that they ran into with Trials in D2 from the start was the fact that they got rid of post match drops in favor of tokens. IMHO that was really fucking stupid because in D1 you could just play Trials and eventually you'd get enough post match drops that you'd have everything, I have full sets of the old Trials armor (Non Cat Version) for all of my D1 characters despite mostly getting pooped on in Trials and never ever going flawless.
Tokens (or now XP towards engrams) are awful because for lower skilled players they take forever to accumulate and make the whole thing feel like the awful grind that it is and they become largely meaningless for higher skilled players because they win enough to get what they want and after that they're just superfluous.
When new Trials first dropped in Season of the Worthy you couldn't even use your tokens unless you got 3 wins.
And getting to 3 wins was not easy.
Also tokens wiped every week. Enjoy watching all that progress disappear into nothingness.
I'd forgotten all of that and you've all now reminded me how profoundly stupid Trials was when it launched, even above and beyond how stupid it is now. Golly I'd like to know what the decision-makers at Bungie were thinking with that one.
I'd forgotten all of that and you've all now reminded me how profoundly stupid Trials was when it launched, even above and beyond how stupid it is now. Golly I'd like to know what the decision-makers at Bungie were thinking with that one.
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There's one of those damn "wear the armour" triumphs every season and they are always annoying.
Season of the Chosen's was the worst as I remember.
I mean play however you want, but it's probably better to just wait until the double rep week rolls around. With a season this long, we probably still have a couple to go.
It's even worse than that. They have no idea what the fuck they're doing with "Streaks". They are just the continuous games of gambit you've played without doing anything else. The best way to grind out Gambit ranks is, by far, to wait for one of those double Gambit weeks and then just sit and play for like forty games doing nothing but occasionally hitting the tower to empty out inventory. Then don't bother touching it ever again.
It is a horrible experience that just feels bad top to bottom.
They did the same thing with Strikes. I like strikes and I still have only hit one reset. Knowing that dropping in and playing a strike because I have like 15 minutes to kill is the worse way to get rep just really hurts it. Streaks should break for shitty behaviors and basically only that.
Also, rift's animations are fucking agonizingly long. So are a lot of supers, and for those I get why, but it's fucking annoying to watch the windup while under fire. JUST THROW THE FUCKING NOVA BOMB YOU POSER.
...you do realize the normal playlist is right there and having another way for folks to interact with something differently than you prefer to doesn't prevent your preferred way, right?
I'll never understand the resistance to something you don't have to do just because it doesn't meet your definition of what something should be.
It splits the population.
In theory, no one should ever go into the main playlist solo if freelance exists, if they want a fair fight. This is a problem for any 2-stack going into the main mode, how do you give them a reasonable queue time if there arent any solo players to round out their team? You would almost need to force the playlists to be "premade 3-stacks only" and "all solo only" for this to work out.
Depending on how this weekend shakes out, it might just be better to have one unified playlist that has some level of SBMM+card based MM turned on to prevent super crazy blowouts
I agree, broadly speaking, that Trials as a mode is fundamentally problematic. That Bungie needs to rain loot on players so they feel rewarded at all skill levels. That Bungie needs to "fudge" the matchmaking so lower end players can have exciting, competitive matches, and high end players shouldn't be able to go on massive win spree stomp fests. That a sizeable percentage players going flawless each weekend is kinda cool actually.
But at some point the mode no longer adheres to its own philosophy. And a freelance Trials playlist is an inherent contradiction to that core Trials philosophy. So the question again goes to Bungie, what is Trials supposed to be?
There is a huge reason for someone to queue the normal playlist - so they can play with their fireteam. And hey, now they get to do it against other fireteams consistently instead of curbstomping randoms to the lighthouse because their matchmaking is awful.
That is the arguement, right? The spirit of trials is gathering your fireteam for high level PvP? If that's the case, this mode supports that more because its fostering actual fireteam v fireteam high level play instead of lopsided bloodbaths. And while yes it may spread the population out, the theory (at least) is it also increases the population to compensate. We'll see how the numbers pan out I guess.
Its a game mode, not a philosophy. And this structure allows the fireteams to fight fireteams, and the solo players to participate too.
Its really hard to read it as anything but "No, mine!" Or sour grapes that matches are going to be more balanced now. Sorry.
EDIT: i do get the 2 stack point, though. That point is a pickle for sure.
EDIT 2: I also still think making it so the solo queue isn't Lighthouse enabled would solve all remaining concerns. If you want to go to the Lighthouse, you have to regular queue. That would help the 2 stack problem and the population concern as folks who care about getting there would be forced out of the freelance and back into the regular line. Folks who are looking to solo queue for rep, win, and quest rewards can still do that. Everyone wins.
The rage would be astronomical if you disabled Lighthouse in the solo queue.
Three of my raid teammates went to the Lighthouse solo in the solo queue. This is helpful as I'm currently trapped in a New World vortex and others have slowed down playing since we got our last person his Vex Mythoclast finally.
You might as well get rid of solo queue if the Lighthouse is disabled.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
This is pretty accurate, imho.
On the rage thing if Lighthouse was disabled for solo, I'd be fine with it? And I'm like the target audience for solo queue.
Seems perfectly reasonable to expect trade offs. If you want a less dick smashed in a car door experience as a solo player, in a mode designed for 3v3, you can get it but with less reward potential. You want the really tasty stuff? Get in there full-bore.
Seems fair?
I really don't see the point of a solo queue with the main achievement of Trials, the Lighthouse, being disabled.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
This is the problem.
The whole point is to go flawless.
For you.
Not everyone plays the same or for the ssme goals. Nor do they have to.
It's not the point from me, it's literally the point of Trials. From Bungie.
As for the rest, you were talking about playing for engrams / rep etc. You can do that in the normal queue when no solo one exists. You can play it with no goal to get to the Lighthouse whether the Lighthouse is disabled or not.
Additionally, getting smashed by a 3-stack or getting smashed by three excellent solo players is going to happen regardless. It may help psychologically to go "Well, we got smashed, but at least they didn't use voice comms!", but the smashing will happen regardless.
[edit]Changing things for purely psychological reasons is fine and even should be done, of course, but my main point is that there will still be lopsided matches whether your opponents are solo or stacked.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I'm glad that Bungie seems to agree that we should be able to play for the rep and win rewards and have it actually be somewhat fun versus your version of if you aren't gunning for lighthouse you are doing it wrong.
More player choice is ALWAYS good. Just look at the participation numbers Trials had before. This kind of constrictive, there is only one right way to play junk is how player communities die.
Right now Freelance doesn't have skill-based matchmaking. That means three gilded Flawless players could easily match against three bronze Elo players at the whims of matchmaking. And it has to be this way for "flawless" to be a viable goal in Freelance, as the flawless chances would be an unrealistic ~1% in a purely SBMM mode. The lack of SBMM is another of Trials' rough edges that Bungie's been sanding off to give the mode broader appeal. And if Bungie sands off too many rough edges from Trials, then Trials becomes a redundant, fancy Elimination with infinitely better rewards.
My perspective on this is that we already have SBMM Survival and Freelance Survival modes. I'd rather see Bungie instead give the Survival modes the love and attention that Trials and Iron Banner get. Unique armor and unique weapons with their own visual theme. A unique announcer and in-game lore tied to mode so it feels like an integral part of the Destiny universe. The reception to Freelance Trials shows that there's an audience eager for this experience.
As far as Trials itself goes, keep it as one playlist, one population. But the compromise is that the matchmaker should never match a full team against three solo players. Every other composition is fair game. Full teams will always play other full teams or a duo+solo.
You're twisting or misinterpreting what I was saying. All I said was disabling Lighthouse in the solo mode was a mistake, essentially, and if you disabled it you're taking away a big part of what Trials is. Now that's a good idea for a Lab.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I honestly agree with almost all of this. If those modes had the loot attention Trials does, there would be no need to participate and that's where I (and other players like me probably) would be.
As is, I'm glad there is a way to do it that isn't excruciating.
@Bizazedo Not intending to twist your words, if I am I apologize.
All good, message boards are fun!
I have to play a ton of Gambit and strikes, still
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I can't see them adding special loot to the other modes, they barely do that for things now - gambit, strikes, crucible - it's all the same thing with a slightly different colour and it looks like shit anyways. "I added some fucking water bottles to the gloves. TIME FOR LUNCH!"
If Bungie wants to open up the Lighthouse to anyone who completes a passage, I could get onboard with that. Just save the adept rewards for flawless runs.
That’s the reason they don’t seem to give a fuck about crucible/strike/gambit content beyond the single new gun/shader/emblem, it’s free to play content and they aren’t going to work on it unless it’s in service of some paid dlc, where the scraps can be thrown to the freebies (ex: battlegrounds being made strikes).
RE: your first line jjonahjamesonlaughing.gif goes here.
IDK, believe it when I see it. I mean, I hope it happens but uh...
The tiered social space in Trials of the Nine was by far its best feature and it's one they should bring back for more modes because it's a cool idea. Like re-introduce Felwinter's Peak and let people get to different areas as they advance in Iron Banner rank or whatever, put Aida in charge of an actual armory that you can use gunsmith parts to open different areas in, I'm not asking for much but any progression beyond "dump tokens into a machine for random crappy rolls" would be nice.
And fundamentally this isn't a player expectation issue anyway. Trials needs the low skill players to be lubricant for the Trials experience. And those players are probably going to complain at just getting shat on constantly.
The core problem is Trials as a 7-wins-flawless format doesn't work but the community is probably too invested to actually change it.
Yeah, on a practical level I agree with you, but also the mode has gotten more armor and weapons in the last year and a half then all of the free to play modes.
May not be enough new stuff for what it should be, but still doing better than the baseline.
Now there are other carrots which aren't "literally flawless or bust", so now you've split the population on what they individually want from trials.
There's a bunch of folks who actually want SBMM so they get closer to 50% wins because they'll never go flawless and they know it but want decent loot, and people who take trials at its original intent where flawless kind of has to suck for the vast majority in order for it to function as a concept.
The rewards for just trying were meant to encourage folks who fell into the second category to keep trying, but instead it created this glut of people from the first category who were just excited pvp was offering any meaningful rewards at all.
Also, if freelance trials sticks around, there probably needs to be a much more strict/harsh light requirement for entry (unless you scrap the power levels being active entirely). Too many losses this weekend have been because I had someone at under 1310 who just gets demolished before they even do damage. Set the requirement to at least the blue hard cap of that season.
Edit:
Further comments on the power level thing, I realize saying “you can only be tween 1320 and 1330 light here” seems like a narrow window, but if you remove the requirement entirely it would let sunset weapons back in. Maybe a contest-mode like modifier needs to exist? Must have a gear-only score above 1290, but having anything above that does nothing for you?
Yeah, I've been playing since the first stress test and I don't remember this at all. Hell, my warlock in D1 has the Batman helm and never got CLOSE to the Lighthouse.
I think there may be some revisionist history going on.
Tokens (or now XP towards engrams) are awful because for lower skilled players they take forever to accumulate and make the whole thing feel like the awful grind that it is and they become largely meaningless for higher skilled players because they win enough to get what they want and after that they're just superfluous.
When new Trials first dropped in Season of the Worthy you couldn't even use your tokens unless you got 3 wins.
And getting to 3 wins was not easy.
Also tokens wiped every week. Enjoy watching all that progress disappear into nothingness.
No adept weapons.
Artifact power level enabled.
I'm going to assume you accidentally the word "slowest" there.
Which mode were you in? And flawless pool or non-flawless pool?