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News Article Time Machine

joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class TraitorSmoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
edited October 2021 in Debate and/or Discourse
Augustus Jürgensen III has just invented a time machine! (Of course the Germans got to the time travel tech first)

And he has invited you to be the first to try it out!

Now, this isn’t an ordinary time machine. It can only send news articles to the past. Don’t ask questions, it’s a time travel thread, I know your tendency is gonna be to pull at threads but just don’t okay? It sends news articles. And the people who receive them believe they are real and not fabricated. Just go with it.

So my question to the Americans here is: if you could only send one news article to the founding fathers, which article would you send, and why? The hope being, of course, that you would provide them with some insight into where their boneheaded framework would send us.

If you’re not American, or your imagination has a different, better idea for how to use Jürgensen’s machine, go ahead! I’m not one to stomp all over your fun! I just posed the initial inquiry to Americans to get things going.

joshofalltrades on
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Posts

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I would send them an article on Black Friday tramplings so they can see what their choices will lead to.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    One of the many supreme court rulings where the bill of rights is treated as an enumeration of rights, or where the constitution is treated as an unalterable suicide pact.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    There were a number of articles written during the last administration that made the point about how the framework of the executive basically operated under the concept that good people would be the president who were capable of feeling shame, so the law of the land was not written in a way to prosecute and remove bad actors easily.

    I would send as many of those along with articles of what the last president did until the machine breaks and millions of lives around the world are unsnapped from his terrible covid response.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    One of the many supreme court rulings where the bill of rights is treated as an enumeration of rights, or where the constitution is treated as an unalterable suicide pact.

    I feel like wrong and bad SCOTUS rulings is the obvious answer, yeah

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Founders would agree with a lot of the shitty ones though.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • EtiowsaEtiowsa Registered User regular
    One of the many articles talking about how fucked we all are by global warming and environmental destruction.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Alexander Hamilton's obituary.

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    I'm leaning towards something from the Civil War.

    I feel like it'd be more easily understood and I'm interested in what happens when everyone in the room learns there's a civil war and the south loses.

  • LabelLabel Registered User regular
    The fucking seating of Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Barret, to Harry Reid et cetera in 2009.

    The impeachment vote results to the Democratic caucus in 2009.

    And probably some very thorough summary of the past five years, including the Covid 19 death toll, to James Fucking Comey.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Reid understood all the things, but couldn't get his caucus to go along.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • LabelLabel Registered User regular
    I can believe that, considering what I see of Adam Jentleson today. Maybe Reid could use the info to persuade somehow though. I don't know, what other hope do I have?

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I think there’s an inclination to present them with some recent fuckery since that’s fresh in our minds and, y’know, we have had to live through it.

    If I was going that route, I would send an article about the filibuster and how it has been abused, in the hope that there are rules inscribed into the framework so a majority party can actually govern.

    But the main problem has already been pointed out by ebum, which is that there’s no guarantee the founders would be convinced that what happened is actually bad.

    And if I was gonna take a riskier tack, I might send an article which gives statistics on national gun violence, including a breakdown by racial lines. Just as a little “hint hint, black people aren’t always gonna be your slaves, but also your 2nd Amendment needs some goddamn work”.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Federalists papers are pretty clear on the desirability of majority rule, so the filibuster and gerrymandering you might be able to get. Race stuff, they were as divided as the country.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Either an article on wind power, or an article on how the Chinese are beating us at solar. Exploit that xenophobia!

  • MillMill Registered User regular
    You could probably get the filibuster and the gerrymander stuff to have the desired impact. Lot of indications that the asshole founding fathers weren't cool with the implications of those two things. If they wanted supermajorities for everything, they wouldn't specify three specific votes to require them (veto overrides, treaties and impeachment). I do recall from my AP history class about early flashpoints of gerrymandering coming up in US history and people not liking it when they realized the implications (the problem with a shitty tool that is working in you favor, is that you could always end up on the receiving end).

    Another set of articles I consider sending are all the ones that would highlight not only what a fucking idiot Trump was, but also what a fucking crook and authoritarian he was. I'd avoid the racist and sexist stuff because sadly many of the founders would have agreed with that shit. I of course would make sure that it was made clear the fucker only got in to office because of the electoral college, that he didn't win the popular vote and the electors weren't interested in picking the best person for the job. I think there would be hope that they'd quickly realize that the electoral college was a dumb fucking idea and to not go with it.

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    The... what was it, Lindsey Lohan furry NFT?

    Let them despair.

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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Isn't Lincoln being assassinated the killing blow to reconstruction of the south? Maybe an article to avoid that. I think the FF knew slavery was gonna blow up but they simply could not address it at the time.

    Nobeard on
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    The... what was it, Lindsey Lohan furry NFT?

    Let them despair.

    Though for all we know, the founders could have been into really kinky shit. So perhaps some of them don't despair.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    The... what was it, Lindsey Lohan furry NFT?

    Let them despair.

    Though for all we know, the founders could have been into really kinky shit. So perhaps some of them don't despair.

    It was a group that included Ben Franklin, so.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    If we're hewing strictly to the 'one article' rule, here's a convenient one summarizing Trump's disaster of a presidency:

    https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-complete-listing-atrocities-1-1-056

    Hi I'm Vee! on
    vRyue2p.png
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Something showing how first-past-the-post voting has been an utter, utter nightmare for health of the government and has guaranteed the wild growth of entrenched and personal corruption in the government. Oh, and have the article include something in there about term limits and any position that involves lifetime appointment.

    If US politics had involved any kind of rational, reasonable proportional representation from the start and no chance for anybody to squat in a position for life, we'd never have had to worry about the likes of Trump because there would've been no way to scare borderline Republicans into total insanity for fear of the Democrat Menace taking over.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Ah man this is like finding a needle in a news stack

  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Founders would agree with a lot of the shitty ones though.

    They might, but I'm sure you could find a few SCOTUS decisions that show utter disregard for the bits of the constitution they do care about (Freedom of Religion, for one) to try and convince them to nip that problem in the bud.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    I'd send 'em an article about how a guy named George became president.

    Then how his son, George II, became president a few years later.

    With no further context.

    RT800 on
  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Wait why did a German scientist make a machine to send information to a bunch of Americans?

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I'd send 'em an article about how a guy named George became president.

    Then how his son, George II, became president a few years later.

    With no further context.

    John Adams could use some cheering up.

  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Alexander Hamilton's obituary.

    This.

    Let's be real, folks: the American founders weren't any more enlightened or farsighted than any other group of educated wealthy people of that time or any other time. Even then, they all knew slavery was evil, but only Ben Franklin had actually gone about freeing his slaves in his life (in the 1760s when he started getting serious about this "liberty" thing). All the rest were satisfied with hoping someone else did something about it later, after they were all comfortably dead (and hundreds of thousands ended up dying in that war that most of them thought was probably inevitable, but they wouldn't do anything about).

    The only actionable thing would be something very, very relevant to them, and that would be Hamilton getting himself killed. He might be willing to not do that duel, and him staying alive would somewhat change the future course of the country since there were many cases where he was right about the course of coming history and having him there as a foil to Jefferson's BS would be useful. (Though he might also have thought that "maybe if I practice more I'll do better" and still get himself killed.)

  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Augustus Jürgensen III has just invented a time machine! (Of course the Germans got to the time travel tech first)

    And he has invited you to be the first to try it out!

    Now, this isn’t an ordinary time machine. It can only send news articles to the past. Don’t ask questions, it’s a time travel thread, I know your tendency is gonna be to pull at threads but just don’t okay? It sends news articles. And the people who receive them believe they are real and not fabricated. Just go with it.

    So my question to the Americans here is: if you could only send one news article to the founding fathers, which article would you send, and why? The hope being, of course, that you would provide them with some insight into where their boneheaded framework would send us.

    If you’re not American, or your imagination has a different, better idea for how to use Jürgensen’s machine, go ahead! I’m not one to stomp all over your fun! I just posed the initial inquiry to Americans to get things going.


    Josh. Is this time machine a cat?

    Is this time machine a newspaper cat?

    vrd33pzauety.jpeg

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Lots of them would have celebrated Hamilton's death.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Id rather exist so Im not sending anything back to then.
    I will however send one Bernard Sanders( 28) some info about the modern democratic party

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Id rather exist so Im not sending anything back to then.
    I will however send one Bernard Sanders( 28) some info about the modern democratic party

    Ah, but if time travel is real, and it's not dimension hopping fake time travel bs, then all consequences of time travel to the past happen as you remember it. By sending them an article you are not changing the past, you're making the past as it happened, and if you don't make the past then the past never happens and you stop existing.

    Obviously because you are here the past was made. What did you send them? Also, just imagine how much worse it could have been had you not sent it.

    Me, I'm sending them the 1619 project with a note about how only they can stop so much misery. Hell, maybe I did and it only made Mr Franklin do anything about it. I guess only time will tell.

    Veevee on
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Id rather exist so Im not sending anything back to then.
    I will however send one Bernard Sanders( 28) some info about the modern democratic party

    Ah, but if time travel is real, and it's not dimension hopping fake time travel bs, then all consequences of time travel to the past happen as you remember it. By sending them an article you are not changing the past, you're making the past as it happened, and if you don't make the past then the past never happens and you stop existing.

    Obviously because you are here the past was made. What did you send them? Also, just imagine how much worse it could have been had you not sent it.

    This changes the question to 'What article did you send back that made us deserve this reality, you terrible person?'

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I would find an article that summarizes both the rise of Trump and Hitler, so they could see both that their system does not prevent the rise of authoritarians, and where such authoritarianism can lead when the one doing it is even minimally competent.

    Or maybe just one about the Tea Party, so they can weep at what their actions ultimately created.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Send them some porno mags with a note that says "Put <insert desired changes> into the new Constitution and I'll send some more".

    There's no need to actually be able to follow up.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    There’s 3 topics I keep coming back to:
    How to eliminate the senate
    Approaching SCOTUS differently vs as an ostensible “co-equal branch”
    Slavery

    I’m not sure there’s anything we could send them about slavery that would matter given how awful the founders were and also we wouldn’t have had the same country

    I think articles about how the votes confirming the 6 justices were cast by senators that collectively represent a minority of the country might address both 1 & 2….but that’s likely a feature to them (especially given they didn’t believe in electing senators anyway)

    I don’t know, the founders were non-exceptional assholes who sniffed enough of their own farts to think they were doing something special when really they created a terrible system that nobody duplicates anymore (including us when we nation-build)

    Maybe something about space with a picture of earth to blow their minds so thoroughly it instills a sense of empathy and awe that overrides the selfishness written into the core of our founding

    Captain Inertia on
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    You'd send an article which explains, in detail, the process by which modern wind turbines or solar pa els are produced. No use for 200 years or so, but in like, 1950 it means coal and oil power generation never really takes off and we instead have a wind and solar powered 20th century.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    If I was going to to send them things it would be about the utter cancer that is the electoral college and how it should have been replaced by direct voting for the presidency so that there can be a real balance between the presidency (who represents all americans) congress (who represent their district) and the senate (which represents the states).

    Further, I'd show them basically anything about the filibuster because holy shit does that thing need to go.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    You'd send an article which explains, in detail, the process by which modern wind turbines or solar pa els are produced. No use for 200 years or so, but in like, 1950 it means coal and oil power generation never really takes off and we instead have a wind and solar powered 20th century.

    We probably couldn't entirely skip coal. Coal boilers are just way easy to build compared to good modern windmills and solar cells. A lot of advanced materials and computer aided stuff. Even with all the knowledge you need the tools to build the tools. But it would be enough to get us several decades ahead in deployment a prevent a ton of fossil fuels from being used.

    steam_sig.png
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    edited October 2021
    tbloxham wrote: »
    You'd send an article which explains, in detail, the process by which modern wind turbines or solar pa els are produced. No use for 200 years or so, but in like, 1950 it means coal and oil power generation never really takes off and we instead have a wind and solar powered 20th century.

    Oil was c. h. e. a. p. Inflation adjusted price was ~$30/barrel and processes for modern solar panels didn't exist in 1950. Coal would have been widely in-use since the industrial revolution too

    Phyphor on
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