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Penny Arcade - Comic - Gate Detection

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited November 10 in The Penny Arcade Hub
imagePenny Arcade - Comic - Gate Detection

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here

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  • Anon von ZilchAnon von Zilch Registered User regular
    A part of me hopes that's an actual NFT monkey they screencapped.

    Zilla360TofystedethMan in the MistsDonnictonMoridin889
  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    I googled it, it is based on the bored ape avatars that went nft

    Zilla360Apogee
  • Anon von ZilchAnon von Zilch Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    I googled it, it is based on the bored ape avatars that went nft

    I recognized what it's based on, but I would've found it pretty hilarious if they'd copypasted an actual NFT monkey into the strip, because that sort of thing drives crypto bros absolutely livid.

    SnicketysnickZilla360TofystedethPreacherNightslyrMan in the MistsH3KnucklesBillieVeeDonnictonMoridin889
  • doompookydoompooky Wild (Let's Draw A) Horses Couldn't Drag Me AwayRegistered User regular
    I goose you not, this very morning International Business Times ran a headline "NFT Avatars Define Identity And Pop Culture" written by one Chad Knight and I've never been more certain we are living in a simulator written by the laziest author ever

    we7ek91hy97o.png
    DjiemKnuckle DraggerZilla360silence1186KaitensatsumaTofystedethNightslyrMan in the MistsBloodySlothH3KnucklesDonnictonMoridin889
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Is there a form of gatekeeping in the gaming industry being talked about that isn't a discussion on inclusion/exclusion of minorities? Because in the context of minorities in gaming being "pro" gatekeeping sure is a look

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • BropocalypseBropocalypse Registered User regular
    edited November 10
    It was pretty hilarious when that one guy learned via twitter that the way HTTP works meant duplicates of these images exist on every device that has ever viewed them, and that what he actually spent all his money on was a
    token (the T in NFT) that just SAYS he owns an image, when actual ownership and control of that image is not possible.
    doompooky wrote: »
    I goose you not, this very morning International Business Times ran a headline "NFT Avatars Define Identity And Pop Culture" written by one Chad Knight and I've never been more certain we are living in a simulator written by the laziest author ever

    The irony being that it doesn't define pop culture except in the way that bad news does. They're not really produced by artists(you know, the ones responsible for pop culture) but machines that mix and match parts to mass-produce objects.

    Bropocalypse on
  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Is there a form of gatekeeping in the gaming industry being talked about that isn't a discussion on inclusion/exclusion of minorities? Because in the context of minorities in gaming being "pro" gatekeeping sure is a look

    I've never heard it used that narrowly. Generally it's just a tendency for folks not to like newcomers in a hobby and to put up artificial barriers to them. Which, if those newcomers are bitcoin bros, might be a good thing. That's the joke.

    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
    TofystedethAndy JoePreacherNightslyrDjiemRhesus PositiveMan in the MistsH3Knucklesel_vicioAldoSneaksKamarJacobkoshShadowhopeJusticeforPlutoDonnictonMoridin889
  • OctoberRavenOctoberRaven Plays fighting games for the story Skyeline Hotel Apartment 4ARegistered User regular
    edited November 10
    Well, it's official. Gabe is the smart one now.
    It was pretty hilarious when that one guy learned via twitter that the way HTTP works meant duplicates of these images exist on every device that has ever viewed them, and that what he actually spent all his money on was a
    token (the T in NFT) that just SAYS he owns an image, when actual ownership and control of that image is not possible.
    doompooky wrote: »
    I goose you not, this very morning International Business Times ran a headline "NFT Avatars Define Identity And Pop Culture" written by one Chad Knight and I've never been more certain we are living in a simulator written by the laziest author ever

    The irony being that it doesn't define pop culture except in the way that bad news does. They're not really produced by artists(you know, the ones responsible for pop culture) but machines that mix and match parts to mass-produce objects.

    It also doesn't define identity, because they are virtually indistinguishable from the literally thousands of others in the collection.

    OctoberRaven on
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  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Is there a form of gatekeeping in the gaming industry being talked about that isn't a discussion on inclusion/exclusion of minorities? Because in the context of minorities in gaming being "pro" gatekeeping sure is a look

    First example that comes to mind is whether mobile gamers are gamers

    Monkey Ball WarriorNightslyrRhesus PositiveH3Knuckles
  • KaitensatsumaKaitensatsuma Registered User regular
    edited November 10

    The irony being that it doesn't define pop culture except in the way that bad news does. They're not really produced by artists(you know, the ones responsible for pop culture) but machines that mix and match parts to mass-produce objects.

    That's because it's the International Business Times

    I don't think business periodicals have ever properly had their finger on the definition of what normal things actually look like, and I say that as a Business grad.
    The sudden mass adoption of PFPs signals a move in our collective consciousness as recognizing that PFP assets are just as valuable as major fashion brands.

    Sure Chad Knight, Sure.

    Kaitensatsuma on
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  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    imagine not wanting to change your forum av because you paid ten thousand dollars to pretend you were the only person who could use it

    m44li7vqs3f7.png
    V1mMoridin889
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    imagine not wanting to change your forum av because you paid ten thousand dollars to pretend you were the only person who could use it

    Now that you mention it, avatars and screen names seem like they might be one of the few actual use cases for something like NFTs. Think stuff like Gravatars. Like this username anywhere is probably me. That's not so much because I paid a stupid amount of money to claim ownership, but because I made it relatively early in the life of the internet and it's not based on a pop culture thing, and awkward enough that no one actually wants it.

    Something where the uniqueness of the Token in NFT and ownership of the Token links it to you might be useful in the context where's you want to say this account is Me. But all the stuff with procedurally generated monkeys or ugly pixel people, and people claiming they're some kind of amazing investment vehicle right before some runs off with a couple of million dollars and then they jump right back into the next pyramid scam shows that currently it's all nonsense burning electricity for no damn reason.

    steam_sig.png
    NightslyrMan in the Mists
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    ...when actual ownership and control of that image is not possible.

    I'd caution against this line of reasoning. Not possible currently, not, but it could absolutely become possible to control ownership of images if there's enough willingness to make it happen. The book Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace by Lawrence Lessig makes this case - never assume that freedom or openness is inherent to any system, it can always be taken away.

    m44li7vqs3f7.png
  • TamosTamos Registered User new member
    Delzhand wrote: »
    ...when actual ownership and control of that image is not possible.

    I'd caution against this line of reasoning. Not possible currently, not, but it could absolutely become possible to control ownership of images if there's enough willingness to make it happen. The book Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace by Lawrence Lessig makes this case - never assume that freedom or openness is inherent to any system, it can always be taken away.

    But sharing a picture on the internet you don't own has always been illegal. Copyright holders have failed time and time again to enforce their rights here. It's like fighting against people sharing books. Even if they somehow managed to force everyone to use a DRM that looks at the files on your computer and deletes automatically every copy of a picture you don't own, the analog hole is still a thing.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Is there a form of gatekeeping in the gaming industry being talked about that isn't a discussion on inclusion/exclusion of minorities? Because in the context of minorities in gaming being "pro" gatekeeping sure is a look

    I've never heard it used that narrowly. Generally it's just a tendency for folks not to like newcomers in a hobby and to put up artificial barriers to them. Which, if those newcomers are bitcoin bros, might be a good thing. That's the joke.

    Yeah I don't get what was hard to understand here. Its like the absolute "we should tolerate all behaviors!" When that's not true at all. Sometimes you should gate keep bad actors.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
    DjiemMan in the MistsSneaksJacobkoshDonnictonMoridin889
  • dennisdennis Executive Peasant Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    I googled it, it is based on the bored ape avatars that went nft

    I recognized what it's based on, but I would've found it pretty hilarious if they'd copypasted an actual NFT monkey into the strip, because that sort of thing drives crypto bros absolutely livid.

    I'm not sure I get that. The actual image isn't in any way unique. It's copyrighted by the author, but the NFT ownership is basically a fancy piece of paper that says you own it. The image isn't the actual NFT. An unscrupulous author could sell a dozen NFTs for the same image, even.
    Now that you mention it, avatars and screen names seem like they might be one of the few actual use cases for something like NFTs.

    But the thing is that none of that requires anything like NFTs. We already have plenty of (some would say too many) authentication systems. Any of those systems that are supposed to be honoring an NFT could just instead honor this 3rd party authenticator. The main problem is just getting every single place on board with the same system, not building the system itself.

  • Anon von ZilchAnon von Zilch Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    I googled it, it is based on the bored ape avatars that went nft

    I recognized what it's based on, but I would've found it pretty hilarious if they'd copypasted an actual NFT monkey into the strip, because that sort of thing drives crypto bros absolutely livid.

    I'm not sure I get that. The actual image isn't in any way unique. It's copyrighted by the author, but the NFT ownership is basically a fancy piece of paper that says you own it. The image isn't the actual NFT. An unscrupulous author could sell a dozen NFTs for the same image, even.

    You know that, and I know that, but the people who buy NFTs apparently often don't.

    H3KnucklesfurlionMoridin889
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited November 10
    I've heard that if you say "I saved the image lol", it more often galvanizes their conviction, as you prove to them that you don't know why they have the thing in the first place, which makes them more sure that they're the smart one who's gonna be a zillionaire. Much like money-laundering through buying paintings, it's not about the image itself at all.

    Enlong on
  • ironheadironhead Registered User regular
    So is there anything stopping somebody from making a quick buck by just ripping a bunch of memes and shit off of some social media platform or something and selling them as NFTs?

  • palidine40palidine40 Registered User regular
    I really love today's comic. Intelligence role reversal. The understanding that a discussion about multiculturalism and how borders still need to exist for that to be respected. Cruddy NFT's and copyright garbage that should be discussed as the real modern evil (i'm looking at you disney).

  • dennisdennis Executive Peasant Registered User regular
    ironhead wrote: »
    So is there anything stopping somebody from making a quick buck by just ripping a bunch of memes and shit off of some social media platform or something and selling them as NFTs?

    Someone who doesn't own them? Copyright law, mainly. But you could take a public domain image and make an NFT for it. You'd just have to be careful in your wording to not imply any rights over the image, or you could run afoul of laws regarding fraud.

    But if you did all that, the only thing left stopping you is human decency. In other words, not much.

    H3Knuckles
  • dennisdennis Executive Peasant Registered User regular
    palidine40 wrote: »
    I really love today's comic. Intelligence role reversal. The understanding that a discussion about multiculturalism and how borders still need to exist for that to be respected. Cruddy NFT's and copyright garbage that should be discussed as the real modern evil (i'm looking at you disney).

    One of these things is not like the other.

    Man in the Mistsel_vicioDjiemSneaks
  • doompookydoompooky Wild (Let's Draw A) Horses Couldn't Drag Me AwayRegistered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    ironhead wrote: »
    So is there anything stopping somebody from making a quick buck by just ripping a bunch of memes and shit off of some social media platform or something and selling them as NFTs?

    Someone who doesn't own them? Copyright law, mainly. But you could take a public domain image and make an NFT for it. You'd just have to be careful in your wording to not imply any rights over the image, or you could run afoul of laws regarding fraud.

    But if you did all that, the only thing left stopping you is human decency. In other words, not much.

    Hey now, that's being cynical. I also genuinely don't know where to find the suckers to buy the things, so decency and that

    we7ek91hy97o.png
    PreacherH3Knuckles
  • TACAMOTACAMO Registered User regular
    We do a little gatekeeping.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    ironhead wrote: »
    So is there anything stopping somebody from making a quick buck by just ripping a bunch of memes and shit off of some social media platform or something and selling them as NFTs?

    No this is what people do

    BloodySloth
  • MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    I have no interest at all in NFTs, but I will admit to the occasional weak-minded feeling of FOMO regarding cryptocurrency. To be clear, I've never thought, "Man, I'm missing out on my chance to be a billionaire!" However, I have thought, "I wonder if I could use this stupidity to bank a couple hundred thousand to add to whatever I manage to accumulate through a lifetime of being an actual productive member of society."

    So far I have not caved on the crypto. Quick, everyone tell me why this is wise and why I should continue to be strong! ;)

    "It's just as I've always said. We are being digested by an amoral universe."

    -Tycho Brahe
    dennis
  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of many interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited November 11
    MarcinMN wrote: »
    I have no interest at all in NFTs, but I will admit to the occasional weak-minded feeling of FOMO regarding cryptocurrency. To be clear, I've never thought, "Man, I'm missing out on my chance to be a billionaire!" However, I have thought, "I wonder if I could use this stupidity to bank a couple hundred thousand to add to whatever I manage to accumulate through a lifetime of being an actual productive member of society."

    So far I have not caved on the crypto. Quick, everyone tell me why this is wise and why I should continue to be strong! ;)

    The last thing humanity needs is new ways to make cash by burning the environment down. You are doing the right thing for any younger generations of your family by withholding. Between the absurd electricity consumption when blockchains are operated at scale, and the considerable increase in e-waste which is toxic and not easily disposed of, anything to do with cryptocurrency or NFTs is very bad for the climate.

    H3Knuckles on
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  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Gabe's 2nd line in panel 1 is very very funny.

    H9f4bVe.png
  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    I think bitcoin will be used as a currency and not just a pyramid scheme. I’ve invested a little but I didn’t get in early enough to make much profit

  • Anon von ZilchAnon von Zilch Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    I think bitcoin will be used as a currency and not just a pyramid scheme. I’ve invested a little but I didn’t get in early enough to make much profit

    It's not going to be widely adopted as a currency as long as its value keeps bouncing here and there and everywhere.

    Rhesus PositiveDjiemShadowhopefurlionMan in the MistsMoridin889
  • YoungFreyYoungFrey Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    I think bitcoin will be used as a currency and not just a pyramid scheme. I’ve invested a little but I didn’t get in early enough to make much profit

    It's not going to be widely adopted as a currency as long as its value keeps bouncing here and there and everywhere.

    This article claims crypto can't really be used an actual currency at all because of it's lack of regulation and deflationary nature:
    There’s the claim the crypto assets are monetary instruments or currencies as their colloquial namesake implies. However as a currency these tokens fail most of the classic economic definitions of money and consequently we see effectively nobody attempting to use crypto tokens as money outside of a small set of vanity projects done purely for political spectacle. Curiously the crypto faithful view the fixed supply of tokens like bitcoin as a desirable feature of a currency since in the Austrian and monetarist dogma they see intervention and inflation as an undesirable feature and quote the Friedman doctrine of “inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon”.

    However this is one of those “feature vs bug” misreadings of basic economics. The actual desirable property of a currency is one with a variable supply which a central bank can control to target a specific low inflation rate by measuring the purchasing power of the currency with respective to the domestic costs of goods. A controlled inflationary currency with interventionist monetary controls encourages economic growth and stability over time. It remains stable and can be used to collect taxes and reliably value long-term cashflows on products like decade-long mortgages. A national currency’s value is derived from the requirement to pay taxes in the currency, the monopoly on the government’s ability to issue the currency, and the recognition of the courts that it can be used to settle public and private debts with the law stepping in to settle disputes denominated in the currency.

    However deflationary currencies do nothing but encourage hording and without centralised inflation targeting are untethered to the cost of goods and swing around violently. As we see in crypto, they exhibit extremely volatility since no economic activity can be denominated in terms of them. One could never price a thirty year mortgage in bitcoin because its volatility makes it completely unpredictable and no sensible bank could calculate the risk of covering that debt. A world in which Elon Musk can tweet two emojis and your home depreciates 80% in value is a dystopia. Cryptoassets aren’t currencies, because by design they lack the centralised monetary controls to make them stable to use as a medium of exchange for goods and services. There can be no separation of money and state, because the state is the only party that could issue money almost by definition.

    DelzhandH3KnucklesDjiemMoridin889
  • OctoberRavenOctoberRaven Plays fighting games for the story Skyeline Hotel Apartment 4ARegistered User regular
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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    ironhead wrote: »
    So is there anything stopping somebody from making a quick buck by just ripping a bunch of memes and shit off of some social media platform or something and selling them as NFTs?
    If you take down the server that is hosting the images, you can even make it so that after they have purchased the NFT, it points to nothing. Because that's all an NFT is... a token that points to a URL somewhere. If that URL breaks, then the image is gone (except for all the right-click-saved copies everyone has of it, lol).

    Di87pOF.jpg
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  • Andy JoeAndy Joe The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    I've heard that if you say "I saved the image lol", it more often galvanizes their conviction, as you prove to them that you don't know why they have the thing in the first place, which makes them more sure that they're the smart one who's gonna be a zillionaire.

    Except for the ones who get mad and start asking the NFT sellers for a way to prevent people from saving their images, lol.

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  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    Illegal drug dealers couldn’t ask the court to step in to settle debts in US dollars either, so they didn’t miss that feature when moving to bitcoin

  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Illegal drug dealers couldn’t ask the court to step in to settle debts in US dollars either, so they didn’t miss that feature when moving to bitcoin

    That's not a pro-bitcoin argument.

    OctoberRavenMan in the MistsMoridin889
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    ironhead wrote: »
    So is there anything stopping somebody from making a quick buck by just ripping a bunch of memes and shit off of some social media platform or something and selling them as NFTs?
    If you take down the server that is hosting the images, you can even make it so that after they have purchased the NFT, it points to nothing. Because that's all an NFT is... a token that points to a URL somewhere. If that URL breaks, then the image is gone (except for all the right-click-saved copies everyone has of it, lol).

    You don't even need to steal content. As far as I know, there's nothing stopping you from just selling NFTs for random IDs on image hosting sites.

  • dennisdennis Executive Peasant Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    ironhead wrote: »
    So is there anything stopping somebody from making a quick buck by just ripping a bunch of memes and shit off of some social media platform or something and selling them as NFTs?
    If you take down the server that is hosting the images, you can even make it so that after they have purchased the NFT, it points to nothing. Because that's all an NFT is... a token that points to a URL somewhere. If that URL breaks, then the image is gone (except for all the right-click-saved copies everyone has of it, lol).

    You don't even need to steal content. As far as I know, there's nothing stopping you from just selling NFTs for random IDs on image hosting sites.

    Fraud, basically. If you stand in front of someone's car with a sign that says "for sale" with a picture of that car on it, and you take money for that car, you're implying that you are authorized to transfer ownership of that car. Even if you try to be cute and say "but I never said I was selling the car, just the picture of the car!"

    Judges don't appreciate "cute".

    H3KnucklesMan in the Mists
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    ironhead wrote: »
    So is there anything stopping somebody from making a quick buck by just ripping a bunch of memes and shit off of some social media platform or something and selling them as NFTs?
    If you take down the server that is hosting the images, you can even make it so that after they have purchased the NFT, it points to nothing. Because that's all an NFT is... a token that points to a URL somewhere. If that URL breaks, then the image is gone (except for all the right-click-saved copies everyone has of it, lol).

    You don't even need to steal content. As far as I know, there's nothing stopping you from just selling NFTs for random IDs on image hosting sites.

    Fraud, basically. If you stand in front of someone's car with a sign that says "for sale" with a picture of that car on it, and you take money for that car, you're implying that you are authorized to transfer ownership of that car. Even if you try to be cute and say "but I never said I was selling the car, just the picture of the car!"

    Judges don't appreciate "cute".

    Never stopped crypto people before. :P

  • dennisdennis Executive Peasant Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    dennis wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    ironhead wrote: »
    So is there anything stopping somebody from making a quick buck by just ripping a bunch of memes and shit off of some social media platform or something and selling them as NFTs?
    If you take down the server that is hosting the images, you can even make it so that after they have purchased the NFT, it points to nothing. Because that's all an NFT is... a token that points to a URL somewhere. If that URL breaks, then the image is gone (except for all the right-click-saved copies everyone has of it, lol).

    You don't even need to steal content. As far as I know, there's nothing stopping you from just selling NFTs for random IDs on image hosting sites.

    Fraud, basically. If you stand in front of someone's car with a sign that says "for sale" with a picture of that car on it, and you take money for that car, you're implying that you are authorized to transfer ownership of that car. Even if you try to be cute and say "but I never said I was selling the car, just the picture of the car!"

    Judges don't appreciate "cute".

    Never stopped crypto people before. :P

    Snarky comment that I don't disagree with, but not really apropos. The OP said there's nothing stopping people from selling NFTs from random images. And sure, there's technically nothing "stopping" you in the same way there's technically nothing "stopping" you from calling up someone and claiming you're from their "cardholder services" and need their credit card information so you can buy a bunch of stuff with it. Scammers gonna scam.

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/20/22334527/nft-scams-artists-opensea-rarible-marble-cards-fraud-art

    But since saying there's nothing "stopping" someone from committing a crime is a bit of a tautology, I have to assume the OP meant that it's not illegal. But it is.

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