Does James Gunn have a specific casting director or is it just him? Between Bautista and Cena, we're talking Aladdin level diamonds in the rough.
Cena's had an acting breakout coming for awhile now. Bit parts, side characters, little roles that people remembered well after the end of the movie. Hell, even little bits in wrestling hinted that he could carry something with some pathos, like his Firefly Funhouse match a couple WrestleManias ago. It was only a matter of time and someone who could give him the shot.
That and he has no problem playing the fool. He's not obsessed with his "brand".
Does James Gunn have a specific casting director or is it just him? Between Bautista and Cena, we're talking Aladdin level diamonds in the rough.
Cena's had an acting breakout coming for awhile now. Bit parts, side characters, little roles that people remembered well after the end of the movie. Hell, even little bits in wrestling hinted that he could carry something with some pathos, like his Firefly Funhouse match a couple WrestleManias ago. It was only a matter of time and someone who could give him the shot.
That and he has no problem playing the fool. He's not obsessed with his "brand".
Or to give him even more credit, it's that his brand is being happy to do cool stuff and is a professional about it.
I'm not a wrestling fan, just aware these guys through media blasting. But yeah, Cena has been great in everything I've seen him in. Rock's been a rock; just sort of there.
Oh wow, apparently Marvel Studios lent them the GoTG 3 crew to film THAT scene
Maybe I’m missing the implications here, but which scene are you referring to? And why is it important that the GotG 3 crew was lent to film it?
the cameos at the end - they apparently filmed parts of it on the GoTG 3 set with the marvel crew, which is kind of cool in a studios helping each other out kind of way.
Oh wow, apparently Marvel Studios lent them the GoTG 3 crew to film THAT scene
Maybe I’m missing the implications here, but which scene are you referring to? And why is it important that the GotG 3 crew was lent to film it?
the cameos at the end - they apparently filmed parts of it on the GoTG 3 set with the marvel crew, which is kind of cool in a studios helping each other out kind of way.
Ah okay gotcha. That is pretty cool!
Honestly since the Russo's bowed out and Whedon creeped out awhile ago, Gunn is arguably the most proven commodity when it comes to Marvels directors.
And they did a lot to alienate him during the faux outrage debacle and I'm sure Warner's has been more then friendly towards him in an attempt to keep him in their camp.
Gunns maybe in one of the most enviable positions in Hollywood right now
Imagine The Rock doing the first episode? The sex scene, the fight with the butterfly.
He can't even bear the idea of coming across worse than Vin Diesel in a fight scene.
The whole first episode is Peacemaker getting his ass kicked physically, verbally, and spiritually! It's fantastic! He's constantly belittled, insulted, and beaten up. He faces it with the cocky narcissist attitude we remember from Suicide Squad.
Then the next seven episodes slowly peel back everything Peacemaker thought he was and we see he's just as damaged as everyone else.
Dwayne Johnson would never, ever let himself be that vulnerable.
Supposedly, the initial offer from DC was any character. Just a free pick, up to and including Superman.
Now, I think it's probably true, but I also think the demands and limitations would have been severe past a certain level, so while I totally believe Gunn when he says he saw himself more in the Suicide Squad, there's probably a degree of pragmatism too.
It'll be interesting to see where it goes post Guardians 3 and Peacemaker season 2.
Vigilante’s competence as a murderer is something I wish we knew more about
He’s at least on par with Harcourt, a seasoned black ops agent, and perhaps better. Well at murdering, at least, he’s worse at everything else an agent needs to succeed
I think in comic books the non-powered operatives/supes are generally at the far end of the bell-curve as far as talent goes. A very small percentage of people are savants at certain things, and that usually happens to be cool things like throwing knives and withstanding injuries
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
Last episode surprise
They didnt pull the trigger on the chekov’s scabies helmet. I was waiting all season for someone to try that thing on.
Also shoulda asked supes to get his antigrav helmet back.
Vigilante says flat out that he just needs a nap to heal damage, which is exactly what he did an ep before with the grenade.
Either something is actually going on there or Gunn is just lampshading the ridiculously fast heal rates for TV characters.
Or it was the ASD. How could Atomica and Zombie Penguin lie?
Peacemaker is ostensibly completely human and suffered an incredible amount of damage in the first few episodes with essentially no repercussions.
yeah it's just comic book logic
same way a racist hick can become a super-scientist
the effect of everything is 10x more than in the real world
get a doctorate? you can now do technology magic
hit the gym every day? you can now shrug off bullet wounds, kill people with a single punch
just really believe in yourself despite having no training? you can now run in guns blazing and not get immediately merced by trained soldiers
I have seen this come up a few times and it confuses me. White trash can be intellectually very gifted. It is a stigma that has had a significant impact on my life so I will stop here to avoid getting on my soap box. I have also met a lot of scientists that were shockingly racist. Like extremely so. See The Bell Curve as a famous example.
Vigilante is definitely a psychopath in addition to ASD. It might be tied into his ASD, but the fact that he has no problem killing kids is a huge sign. Total lack of empathy and remorse.
Yeah this was my thought. People can have two things that shape them. It is frustrating how often ASD and Antisocial Personality Disorder (fancy name for psychopath) get conflated into one thing by tv and movies though.
The fact that he couldn't tell that Peacemaker was upset and thought he was doing face exercises? I want to say that was a trait common to Psychopaths.
I would chalk it up to ASD on that front actually. Psychopaths can get really good at mimicry to try and blend in for better and worse. I do really like how they show Vigilante trying to connect in those moments though. I can't speak to the numbers, but I have worked with people who really do try their best to help others while lacking an important, basic tool for it. Vigilante really wants to be a hero and just can't really put the pieces of the puzzle together by himself to get there.
He could also implicitly trust Peacemaker and that Peacemaker wouldn't lie about that since they're friends.
Hello! ASD who has trouble telling when people are lying to me and gets severely confused by lack of honesty. A lot of my life is just "going with it" because it makes sense to other people but I don't really... grok... doing it. I thought Vigilante might be more upset that Peacemaker was lying to him more than anything else.
Also I have hyperflexibility, too! Squad form up!
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Vigilante’s competence as a murderer is something I wish we knew more about
He’s at least on par with Harcourt, a seasoned black ops agent, and perhaps better. Well at murdering, at least, he’s worse at everything else an agent needs to succeed
I think in comic books the non-powered operatives/supes are generally at the far end of the bell-curve as far as talent goes. A very small percentage of people are savants at certain things, and that usually happens to be cool things like throwing knives and withstanding injuries
Whoa now, let's not say things we can't take back.
While he was a bit lax about it within the group, he definitely maintained personal secrecy where he could.
The idea that covert agents go around advertising themselves as such (ever since Bond), has always been a peeve.
You wanna flash a badge, join the FBI. You wanna be black ops covert, you <redacted because secrecy is key>.
Vigilante’s competence as a murderer is something I wish we knew more about
He’s at least on par with Harcourt, a seasoned black ops agent, and perhaps better. Well at murdering, at least, he’s worse at everything else an agent needs to succeed
I think in comic books the non-powered operatives/supes are generally at the far end of the bell-curve as far as talent goes. A very small percentage of people are savants at certain things, and that usually happens to be cool things like throwing knives and withstanding injuries
Whoa now, let's not say things we can't take back.
While he was a bit lax about it within the group, he definitely maintained personal secrecy where he could.
The idea that covert agents go around advertising themselves as such (ever since Bond), has always been a peeve.
You wanna flash a badge, join the FBI. You wanna be black ops covert, you <redacted because secrecy is key>.
Right but the idea of him handling junior agents and sources, entertaining moral gray areas, sifting misinformation from critical info…
Vigilante’s competence as a murderer is something I wish we knew more about
He’s at least on par with Harcourt, a seasoned black ops agent, and perhaps better. Well at murdering, at least, he’s worse at everything else an agent needs to succeed
I think in comic books the non-powered operatives/supes are generally at the far end of the bell-curve as far as talent goes. A very small percentage of people are savants at certain things, and that usually happens to be cool things like throwing knives and withstanding injuries
Whoa now, let's not say things we can't take back.
While he was a bit lax about it within the group, he definitely maintained personal secrecy where he could.
The idea that covert agents go around advertising themselves as such (ever since Bond), has always been a peeve.
You wanna flash a badge, join the FBI. You wanna be black ops covert, you <redacted because secrecy is key>.
Right but the idea of him handling junior agents and sources, entertaining moral gray areas, sifting misinformation from critical info…
Oh, he'd be utter shit at almost EVERY other aspect of being an agent. Just wanted to point out murder isn't the ONLY thing he's good at.
Imagine if the surprise at the end of Peacemaker...
Had been Grant Gustin's Flash and Melissa Benoist's Supergirl instead.
I'd bet they would be really confused to meet a completely different version of Vigilante than the one they already met. Imagine when they learn about a Thinker that got turn apart by a starfish.
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
Vigilante says flat out that he just needs a nap to heal damage, which is exactly what he did an ep before with the grenade.
Either something is actually going on there or Gunn is just lampshading the ridiculously fast heal rates for TV characters.
Or it was the ASD. How could Atomica and Zombie Penguin lie?
Peacemaker is ostensibly completely human and suffered an incredible amount of damage in the first few episodes with essentially no repercussions.
yeah it's just comic book logic
same way a racist hick can become a super-scientist
the effect of everything is 10x more than in the real world
get a doctorate? you can now do technology magic
hit the gym every day? you can now shrug off bullet wounds, kill people with a single punch
just really believe in yourself despite having no training? you can now run in guns blazing and not get immediately merced by trained soldiers
I have seen this come up a few times and it confuses me. White trash can be intellectually very gifted. It is a stigma that has had a significant impact on my life so I will stop here to avoid getting on my soap box. I have also met a lot of scientists that were shockingly racist. Like extremely so. See The Bell Curve as a famous example.
Eh... remember the dad having his kids fight in a pit of dirt for shits and giggles?
Sure, there's a lot of brilliant and well educated scientists in history who were also incredibly racist. I would disagree with the Bell Curve as an example because the scientific merits were total shit. However, Chris's dad didn't really demonstrate any real degree of sophistication or education beyond a normal person, much less the Hank Pym/Reed Richards manipulation of interdimensional space levels of intelligence required to build his hideout.
The best explanation until Gunn gives an official one is that he relied on connections and took credit for other people's work.
Vigilante says flat out that he just needs a nap to heal damage, which is exactly what he did an ep before with the grenade.
Either something is actually going on there or Gunn is just lampshading the ridiculously fast heal rates for TV characters.
Or it was the ASD. How could Atomica and Zombie Penguin lie?
Peacemaker is ostensibly completely human and suffered an incredible amount of damage in the first few episodes with essentially no repercussions.
yeah it's just comic book logic
same way a racist hick can become a super-scientist
the effect of everything is 10x more than in the real world
get a doctorate? you can now do technology magic
hit the gym every day? you can now shrug off bullet wounds, kill people with a single punch
just really believe in yourself despite having no training? you can now run in guns blazing and not get immediately merced by trained soldiers
I have seen this come up a few times and it confuses me. White trash can be intellectually very gifted. It is a stigma that has had a significant impact on my life so I will stop here to avoid getting on my soap box. I have also met a lot of scientists that were shockingly racist. Like extremely so. See The Bell Curve as a famous example.
Eh... remember the dad having his kids fight in a pit of dirt for shits and giggles?
Sure, there's a lot of brilliant and well educated scientists in history who were also incredibly racist. I would disagree with the Bell Curve as an example because the scientific merits were total shit. However, Chris's dad didn't really demonstrate any real degree of sophistication or education beyond a normal person, much less the Hank Pym/Reed Richards manipulation of interdimensional space levels of intelligence required to build his hideout.
The best explanation until Gunn gives an official one is that he relied on connections and took credit for other people's work.
Oh the Bell Curve is complete bullshit that was written by a guy with a PhD. That it is so wrong is my point. Despite his educational accomplishments the dude was still a hard core racist. Having his kids pit fight is also pretty tangential to anything. Him being an abusive asshole of a parent has nothing to do with whether or not he can build tech.
This is all really strange to me. People seem to be really invested in the idea that someone can't possibly be super racist, and super smart. I don't get why on any level. Everything on the show pointed us to Peacemaker's dad being the guy who built all the tech so that is what it is almost certainly. It really is just basic super hero tech bullshit applied to a bad guy. The only difference between White Dragon and Bloodsport in terms of tech believability is the cultural baggage associated with each character.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
So I love the fact that Snyder soured the franchise so badly that Shazaam couldn't get Cavill's Superman, but Gunn was able to pull the actors for Flash and Aquaman. As part of a joke scene. For an action comedy series. It's just an extra little bit of "fuck you" to a truly terrible director that adds some extra sweetness to the show.
Anyway, the choice Peacemaker had to make really does suck, but it was also a direct reflection of his own ideals. Before killing Flagg, yeah, Peacemaker probably would've backed the Butterflies. But he's spent the intervening months coming to realize that you can't just slaughter your way to the sort of world he wants, and the route the Butterflies are taking, even with good intentions, means a whole lot of death for a lot of people who probably just don't want to be taken over by bugs. Particularly people Peacemaker likes, because they're going to fight back.
Also, fuck you, Waller. The one ongoing thing that aggravates me about Gunn's Suicide Squad/Peacemaker stuff is that Waller is a straight-up fucking mass-murdering villain. I know it's supposed to be aggravating, but even something as relatively minor as her daughter turning on her was great to see. I'm only hoping that the culmination of one of these Gunn projects is Waller meeting an ending every bit as brutal and trivial as she has inflicted, or threatened to inflict, on so many other people that just happened to annoy her some bad day.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Yeah, Waller is evil to the point of disbelief. Her just whacking her entire staff in SS1 soured me on any kind of redemption or empathy.
In a truly just world, Superman would have snapped her neck ages ago.
Oh the Bell Curve is complete bullshit that was written by a guy with a PhD. That it is so wrong is my point. Despite his educational accomplishments the dude was still a hard core racist. Having his kids pit fight is also pretty tangential to anything. Him being an abusive asshole of a parent has nothing to do with whether or not he can build tech.
This is all really strange to me. People seem to be really invested in the idea that someone can't possibly be super racist, and super smart. I don't get why on any level. Everything on the show pointed us to Peacemaker's dad being the guy who built all the tech so that is what it is almost certainly. It really is just basic super hero tech bullshit applied to a bad guy. The only difference between White Dragon and Bloodsport in terms of tech believability is the cultural baggage associated with each character.
I don't think anyone has ever complained about Hydra agents possessing super science, despite being racist. Or the Kree possessing super science despite literal genocide. It's not about "you can't be racist and also good at science," we're discussing the specifics of the situation.
There's a huge difference between having a highly modular gun like Bloodsport does and casually building a quantum unfolding base that's bigger on the inside. Not to mention exoskeletons, forcefields, anti-gravity, etc. Even Tony Stark from the MCU doesn't have a lot of those things.
The technology that White Dragon has access to isn't stuff you can learn from reading a DIY manual, it's technology that would need to be researched and developed. Look at all the prototyping that Tony Stark has to go through in "Iron Man." If you want to experiment with crap like Quantum Unfolding, that would probably take a lot more resources than simply digging an bigger basement from the start.
Allowing foreign citizens to die by the thousands to serve US national interest? Conscripting prisoners into dangerous and unethical programs?
In the real world that's just some mid level CIA mook gunning for a promotion.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Allowing foreign citizens to die by the thousands to serve US national interest? Conscripting prisoners into dangerous and unethical programs?
In the real world that's just some mid level CIA mook gunning for a promotion.
It’s the randomly killing of her staff that I find unbelievable. Of course foreigners and prisoners are expendable to a black ops program, but viciously murdering your own highly-trained agents and support staff on a whim or without having a plan is just dumb meathead writing.
The basic premise of Task Force X laid out in SS1 is pretty pants-on-head stupid, as Jenny Nicholson outlined in her video about it. If you need a controlled team to mitigate existential threats, you don’t need clown girl or bullet man or sentient crocodiles and sharks. If the JL goes rogue, you get other unaffiliated supers to step up, like Shazam or Black Adam or Ocean Master or whoever.
“Oh, shit, the Red Lanterns are invading with their space fleet! Quick! Someone round up Calendar Man and Weasel!”
Oh the Bell Curve is complete bullshit that was written by a guy with a PhD. That it is so wrong is my point. Despite his educational accomplishments the dude was still a hard core racist. Having his kids pit fight is also pretty tangential to anything. Him being an abusive asshole of a parent has nothing to do with whether or not he can build tech.
This is all really strange to me. People seem to be really invested in the idea that someone can't possibly be super racist, and super smart. I don't get why on any level. Everything on the show pointed us to Peacemaker's dad being the guy who built all the tech so that is what it is almost certainly. It really is just basic super hero tech bullshit applied to a bad guy. The only difference between White Dragon and Bloodsport in terms of tech believability is the cultural baggage associated with each character.
I don't think anyone has ever complained about Hydra agents possessing super science, despite being racist. Or the Kree possessing super science despite literal genocide. It's not about "you can't be racist and also good at science," we're discussing the specifics of the situation.
There's a huge difference between having a highly modular gun like Bloodsport does and casually building a quantum unfolding base that's bigger on the inside. Not to mention exoskeletons, forcefields, anti-gravity, etc. Even Tony Stark from the MCU doesn't have a lot of those things.
The technology that White Dragon has access to isn't stuff you can learn from reading a DIY manual, it's technology that would need to be researched and developed. Look at all the prototyping that Tony Stark has to go through in "Iron Man." If you want to experiment with crap like Quantum Unfolding, that would probably take a lot more resources than simply digging an bigger basement from the start.
As opposed to a man flying because of solar power? Or a lightning blast letting someone run faster than... time? I don't know anything really about the character from his DC stuff, but I could think of all kinds of reasons he has access to this stuff. In a world with Cyborg, I'm not sure it's worth worrying about.
Oh the Bell Curve is complete bullshit that was written by a guy with a PhD. That it is so wrong is my point. Despite his educational accomplishments the dude was still a hard core racist. Having his kids pit fight is also pretty tangential to anything. Him being an abusive asshole of a parent has nothing to do with whether or not he can build tech.
This is all really strange to me. People seem to be really invested in the idea that someone can't possibly be super racist, and super smart. I don't get why on any level. Everything on the show pointed us to Peacemaker's dad being the guy who built all the tech so that is what it is almost certainly. It really is just basic super hero tech bullshit applied to a bad guy. The only difference between White Dragon and Bloodsport in terms of tech believability is the cultural baggage associated with each character.
I don't think anyone has ever complained about Hydra agents possessing super science, despite being racist. Or the Kree possessing super science despite literal genocide. It's not about "you can't be racist and also good at science," we're discussing the specifics of the situation.
There's a huge difference between having a highly modular gun like Bloodsport does and casually building a quantum unfolding base that's bigger on the inside. Not to mention exoskeletons, forcefields, anti-gravity, etc. Even Tony Stark from the MCU doesn't have a lot of those things.
The technology that White Dragon has access to isn't stuff you can learn from reading a DIY manual, it's technology that would need to be researched and developed. Look at all the prototyping that Tony Stark has to go through in "Iron Man." If you want to experiment with crap like Quantum Unfolding, that would probably take a lot more resources than simply digging an bigger basement from the start.
same way a racist hick can become a super-scientist
It is literally about how someone claimed racist hicks can't be super scientists. I don't know what discussion you are trying to have, but it does not appear to involve anything I have said even slightly. I suppose you can make an argument the show needed to spend more time developing an irrelevant past super criminal history for White Dragon. I wouldn't really have any interest though. My point is purely about posts saying people with my background being smart is unbelievable.
As opposed to a man flying because of solar power?
He's an alien with alien physiology, he's not a random nobody who developed those abilities just by screwing around.
Or a lightning blast letting someone run faster than... time?
Barry was chosen by the speed force.
I don't know anything really about the character from his DC stuff, but I could think of all kinds of reasons he has access to this stuff. In a world with Cyborg, I'm not sure it's worth worrying about.
Cyborg is the way he is because of the Motherbox, it's not the result of technical innovation. And even if it were, Star Labs shouldn't be comparable to some random nobody.
And White Dragon is a nobody. He's not the DCEU equivalent of Doctor Doom. He's probably more comparable than Stilt Man. Case in point: The fact that they didn't try to arrest him with something else after the charges were dropped, even though they all seem to know who he is.
James Gunn has earned enough benefit of the doubt for me to believe it's not a plot hole, and that he has an explanation for it if someone asks.
I don't think Waller executed her staff on a whim, she killed them because there was a gaping wide "This is all my fault" over the shit that was going down and she needed to wax the witnessess. I wouldn't be surprised if she was planning on popping the squad too, afterwards.
Also, Waller works with criminals instead of unaffiliated supers because she can swing getting bombs implanted in the criminals and dangle an easily achievable reward (reduced sentences) in front of them. Control is a huge thing for her.
Undead Scottsman on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Allowing foreign citizens to die by the thousands to serve US national interest? Conscripting prisoners into dangerous and unethical programs?
In the real world that's just some mid level CIA mook gunning for a promotion.
The key failure phrase here is "in the real world". Trying to be too "in the real world" is the same nonsense that makes the Snyder films big sacks of trash. I'm not watching comic book films and shows for the gritty realism.
And Waller being believable isn't the problem. Waller operating semi-openly as an outright mass murderer in a world of people like Superman is definitely a problem. Is Supes going to do an orbital flyover of her house at night and vaporize her? No. But she deals with villains that have interacted with Superman and at least one of them, or their associates, would definitely reveal that program instantly to Superman upon getting caught. And even if it's some random villain, you know Superman isn't going to just ignore the guy claiming a specific prison in Louisiana is running a murder squad; all Supes has to hear is one of those great Waller conversations about "do what we say or we blow up your brain or throw your underage daughter in murder-prison" and boom, that's done. Or something like with Starro? No way Supes doesn't zip down there as a followup and start asking questions, ending at the people who saved the city (possibly the country) and would be eager to see Waller getting brought down by Superman.
It actually genuinely irritates me that in Gunn's Suicide Squad, the lady who clocks Waller with the golf club stops after she knocks Waller out. That lady knows for a fact that Waller will literally get you killed for insulting her shirt and, at a minimum, letting Waller live will mean getting tossed in a small dark hole forever. Any situation where Waller walks out of that room is worse for that lady, so why the fuck does she clonk Waller and just... stop? It's honestly my biggest gripe of the movie because out of pure self-preservation, the lady should've made absolutely sure Waller was not getting back up, ever.
But I'm guessing Gunn has long-term plans for Waller, and I just hope the ending is poetic.
And Waller being believable isn't the problem. Waller operating semi-openly as an outright mass murderer in a world of people like Superman is definitely a problem. Is Supes going to do an orbital flyover of her house at night and vaporize her? No. But she deals with villains that have interacted with Superman and at least one of them, or their associates, would definitely reveal that program instantly to Superman upon getting caught. And even if it's some random villain, you know Superman isn't going to just ignore the guy claiming a specific prison in Louisiana is running a murder squad; all Supes has to hear is one of those great Waller conversations about "do what we say or we blow up your brain or throw your underage daughter in murder-prison" and boom, that's done. Or something like with Starro? No way Supes doesn't zip down there as a followup and start asking questions, ending at the people who saved the city (possibly the country) and would be eager to see Waller getting brought down by Superman.
You're forgetting that we're talking about Snyderverse Superman.
It actually genuinely irritates me that in Gunn's Suicide Squad, the lady who clocks Waller with the golf club stops after she knocks Waller out. That lady knows for a fact that Waller will literally get you killed for insulting her shirt and, at a minimum, letting Waller live will mean getting tossed in a small dark hole forever. Any situation where Waller walks out of that room is worse for that lady, so why the fuck does she clonk Waller and just... stop? It's honestly my biggest gripe of the movie because out of pure self-preservation, the lady should've made absolutely sure Waller was not getting back up, ever.
You can rationalize this simply by Waller acknowledging that she needs people who can keep her in check because she's terrified of herself without them.
The same reason Superman gives Batman a kryptonite ring in the comic books.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Except one of the first things we see with Peacemaker is the lady that clubbed Waller getting slammed onto a desk and handcuffed. Waller was into a full-on raging psychotic tantrum because "her" team was going to try to save the lives of millions of people after managing to complete their mission anyway. That lady is toast now, and they probably couldn't even have prosecute her if she'd killed Waller because what are they going to hit her with? Obstructing a psychopath from murdering several people trying to prevent the murder of millions on a secret murder mission that murdered several other people as decoys, all run by Waller?
This Waller doesn't give two fucks about anyone except who can she control and, apparently, her daughter. There's not even a hint of actual justification or nobility in this Waller's actions, you dance to her tune or she will explode your brain. And sometimes dancing to the tune gets you the same result anyway. No fucking way is she going to put any kind of "check" on herself that might interfere with her ability to throw a total shit-fit and blow people's heads off to be in control again.
Like I said, I'm just hoping Gunn has plans for Waller. Big, explodey, fiery, poetic plans. Or something like her ending up as a permanent resident inside her own hell-prison.
It actually genuinely irritates me that in Gunn's Suicide Squad, the lady who clocks Waller with the golf club stops after she knocks Waller out. That lady knows for a fact that Waller will literally get you killed for insulting her shirt and, at a minimum, letting Waller live will mean getting tossed in a small dark hole forever. Any situation where Waller walks out of that room is worse for that lady, so why the fuck does she clonk Waller and just... stop? It's honestly my biggest gripe of the movie because out of pure self-preservation, the lady should've made absolutely sure Waller was not getting back up, ever.
As opposed to a man flying because of solar power?
He's an alien with alien physiology, he's not a random nobody who developed those abilities just by screwing around.
Or a lightning blast letting someone run faster than... time?
Barry was chosen by the speed force.
I don't know anything really about the character from his DC stuff, but I could think of all kinds of reasons he has access to this stuff. In a world with Cyborg, I'm not sure it's worth worrying about.
Cyborg is the way he is because of the Motherbox, it's not the result of technical innovation. And even if it were, Star Labs shouldn't be comparable to some random nobody.
And White Dragon is a nobody. He's not the DCEU equivalent of Doctor Doom. He's probably more comparable than Stilt Man. Case in point: The fact that they didn't try to arrest him with something else after the charges were dropped, even though they all seem to know who he is.
James Gunn has earned enough benefit of the doubt for me to believe it's not a plot hole, and that he has an explanation for it if someone asks.
It's not a 'plot hole'. He's a comic book villain. There, done. I sincerely hope it never gets explained; it doesn't matter.
Oh the Bell Curve is complete bullshit that was written by a guy with a PhD. That it is so wrong is my point. Despite his educational accomplishments the dude was still a hard core racist. Having his kids pit fight is also pretty tangential to anything. Him being an abusive asshole of a parent has nothing to do with whether or not he can build tech.
This is all really strange to me. People seem to be really invested in the idea that someone can't possibly be super racist, and super smart. I don't get why on any level. Everything on the show pointed us to Peacemaker's dad being the guy who built all the tech so that is what it is almost certainly. It really is just basic super hero tech bullshit applied to a bad guy. The only difference between White Dragon and Bloodsport in terms of tech believability is the cultural baggage associated with each character.
I don't think anyone has ever complained about Hydra agents possessing super science, despite being racist. Or the Kree possessing super science despite literal genocide. It's not about "you can't be racist and also good at science," we're discussing the specifics of the situation.
There's a huge difference between having a highly modular gun like Bloodsport does and casually building a quantum unfolding base that's bigger on the inside. Not to mention exoskeletons, forcefields, anti-gravity, etc. Even Tony Stark from the MCU doesn't have a lot of those things.
The technology that White Dragon has access to isn't stuff you can learn from reading a DIY manual, it's technology that would need to be researched and developed. Look at all the prototyping that Tony Stark has to go through in "Iron Man." If you want to experiment with crap like Quantum Unfolding, that would probably take a lot more resources than simply digging an bigger basement from the start.
same way a racist hick can become a super-scientist
It is literally about how someone claimed racist hicks can't be super scientists. I don't know what discussion you are trying to have, but it does not appear to involve anything I have said even slightly. I suppose you can make an argument the show needed to spend more time developing an irrelevant past super criminal history for White Dragon. I wouldn't really have any interest though. My point is purely about posts saying people with my background being smart is unbelievable.
I think people are reacting to the way he chooses to live. He's not just smart, he's educated. It's applied brilliance. He still runs with prison gangs and local clan members, wore a mullet in his prime and ran dirt hole fight club. Poor people shit. Most educated people, racist or not, run from the trappings of poverty.
I think it strikes viewers as off because it's an atypical choice. Of course racists can be smart. The ones that make something of themselves usually present themselves differently.
Peacemakers dad being a magic tech guy never stood out to me in any way. There's people out there with super powers and there's people who can do tech magic.
Also, being sick of superheroes and such, I can't believe how much I enjoyed suicide squad and how great peacemaker was.
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Cena's had an acting breakout coming for awhile now. Bit parts, side characters, little roles that people remembered well after the end of the movie. Hell, even little bits in wrestling hinted that he could carry something with some pathos, like his Firefly Funhouse match a couple WrestleManias ago. It was only a matter of time and someone who could give him the shot.
That and he has no problem playing the fool. He's not obsessed with his "brand".
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Or to give him even more credit, it's that his brand is being happy to do cool stuff and is a professional about it.
I'm not a wrestling fan, just aware these guys through media blasting. But yeah, Cena has been great in everything I've seen him in. Rock's been a rock; just sort of there.
To continue to be fair to him, the rest of the cast was the reason it was fun.
Ah okay gotcha. That is pretty cool!
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He can't even bear the idea of coming across worse than Vin Diesel in a fight scene.
Honestly since the Russo's bowed out and Whedon creeped out awhile ago, Gunn is arguably the most proven commodity when it comes to Marvels directors.
And they did a lot to alienate him during the faux outrage debacle and I'm sure Warner's has been more then friendly towards him in an attempt to keep him in their camp.
Gunns maybe in one of the most enviable positions in Hollywood right now
The whole first episode is Peacemaker getting his ass kicked physically, verbally, and spiritually! It's fantastic! He's constantly belittled, insulted, and beaten up. He faces it with the cocky narcissist attitude we remember from Suicide Squad.
Then the next seven episodes slowly peel back everything Peacemaker thought he was and we see he's just as damaged as everyone else.
Dwayne Johnson would never, ever let himself be that vulnerable.
Now, I think it's probably true, but I also think the demands and limitations would have been severe past a certain level, so while I totally believe Gunn when he says he saw himself more in the Suicide Squad, there's probably a degree of pragmatism too.
It'll be interesting to see where it goes post Guardians 3 and Peacemaker season 2.
He’s at least on par with Harcourt, a seasoned black ops agent, and perhaps better. Well at murdering, at least, he’s worse at everything else an agent needs to succeed
I think in comic books the non-powered operatives/supes are generally at the far end of the bell-curve as far as talent goes. A very small percentage of people are savants at certain things, and that usually happens to be cool things like throwing knives and withstanding injuries
Also shoulda asked supes to get his antigrav helmet back.
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I have seen this come up a few times and it confuses me. White trash can be intellectually very gifted. It is a stigma that has had a significant impact on my life so I will stop here to avoid getting on my soap box. I have also met a lot of scientists that were shockingly racist. Like extremely so. See The Bell Curve as a famous example.
He could also implicitly trust Peacemaker and that Peacemaker wouldn't lie about that since they're friends.
Hello! ASD who has trouble telling when people are lying to me and gets severely confused by lack of honesty. A lot of my life is just "going with it" because it makes sense to other people but I don't really... grok... doing it. I thought Vigilante might be more upset that Peacemaker was lying to him more than anything else.
Also I have hyperflexibility, too! Squad form up!
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Whoa now, let's not say things we can't take back.
While he was a bit lax about it within the group, he definitely maintained personal secrecy where he could.
The idea that covert agents go around advertising themselves as such (ever since Bond), has always been a peeve.
You wanna flash a badge, join the FBI. You wanna be black ops covert, you <redacted because secrecy is key>.
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Right but the idea of him handling junior agents and sources, entertaining moral gray areas, sifting misinformation from critical info…
Oh, he'd be utter shit at almost EVERY other aspect of being an agent. Just wanted to point out murder isn't the ONLY thing he's good at.
Shoulda been
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Eh... remember the dad having his kids fight in a pit of dirt for shits and giggles?
Sure, there's a lot of brilliant and well educated scientists in history who were also incredibly racist. I would disagree with the Bell Curve as an example because the scientific merits were total shit. However, Chris's dad didn't really demonstrate any real degree of sophistication or education beyond a normal person, much less the Hank Pym/Reed Richards manipulation of interdimensional space levels of intelligence required to build his hideout.
The best explanation until Gunn gives an official one is that he relied on connections and took credit for other people's work.
Oh the Bell Curve is complete bullshit that was written by a guy with a PhD. That it is so wrong is my point. Despite his educational accomplishments the dude was still a hard core racist. Having his kids pit fight is also pretty tangential to anything. Him being an abusive asshole of a parent has nothing to do with whether or not he can build tech.
This is all really strange to me. People seem to be really invested in the idea that someone can't possibly be super racist, and super smart. I don't get why on any level. Everything on the show pointed us to Peacemaker's dad being the guy who built all the tech so that is what it is almost certainly. It really is just basic super hero tech bullshit applied to a bad guy. The only difference between White Dragon and Bloodsport in terms of tech believability is the cultural baggage associated with each character.
Anyway, the choice Peacemaker had to make really does suck, but it was also a direct reflection of his own ideals. Before killing Flagg, yeah, Peacemaker probably would've backed the Butterflies. But he's spent the intervening months coming to realize that you can't just slaughter your way to the sort of world he wants, and the route the Butterflies are taking, even with good intentions, means a whole lot of death for a lot of people who probably just don't want to be taken over by bugs. Particularly people Peacemaker likes, because they're going to fight back.
Also, fuck you, Waller. The one ongoing thing that aggravates me about Gunn's Suicide Squad/Peacemaker stuff is that Waller is a straight-up fucking mass-murdering villain. I know it's supposed to be aggravating, but even something as relatively minor as her daughter turning on her was great to see. I'm only hoping that the culmination of one of these Gunn projects is Waller meeting an ending every bit as brutal and trivial as she has inflicted, or threatened to inflict, on so many other people that just happened to annoy her some bad day.
In a truly just world, Superman would have snapped her neck ages ago.
I don't think anyone has ever complained about Hydra agents possessing super science, despite being racist. Or the Kree possessing super science despite literal genocide. It's not about "you can't be racist and also good at science," we're discussing the specifics of the situation.
There's a huge difference between having a highly modular gun like Bloodsport does and casually building a quantum unfolding base that's bigger on the inside. Not to mention exoskeletons, forcefields, anti-gravity, etc. Even Tony Stark from the MCU doesn't have a lot of those things.
The technology that White Dragon has access to isn't stuff you can learn from reading a DIY manual, it's technology that would need to be researched and developed. Look at all the prototyping that Tony Stark has to go through in "Iron Man." If you want to experiment with crap like Quantum Unfolding, that would probably take a lot more resources than simply digging an bigger basement from the start.
Allowing foreign citizens to die by the thousands to serve US national interest? Conscripting prisoners into dangerous and unethical programs?
In the real world that's just some mid level CIA mook gunning for a promotion.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
It’s the randomly killing of her staff that I find unbelievable. Of course foreigners and prisoners are expendable to a black ops program, but viciously murdering your own highly-trained agents and support staff on a whim or without having a plan is just dumb meathead writing.
The basic premise of Task Force X laid out in SS1 is pretty pants-on-head stupid, as Jenny Nicholson outlined in her video about it. If you need a controlled team to mitigate existential threats, you don’t need clown girl or bullet man or sentient crocodiles and sharks. If the JL goes rogue, you get other unaffiliated supers to step up, like Shazam or Black Adam or Ocean Master or whoever.
“Oh, shit, the Red Lanterns are invading with their space fleet! Quick! Someone round up Calendar Man and Weasel!”
As opposed to a man flying because of solar power? Or a lightning blast letting someone run faster than... time? I don't know anything really about the character from his DC stuff, but I could think of all kinds of reasons he has access to this stuff. In a world with Cyborg, I'm not sure it's worth worrying about.
It is literally about how someone claimed racist hicks can't be super scientists. I don't know what discussion you are trying to have, but it does not appear to involve anything I have said even slightly. I suppose you can make an argument the show needed to spend more time developing an irrelevant past super criminal history for White Dragon. I wouldn't really have any interest though. My point is purely about posts saying people with my background being smart is unbelievable.
He's an alien with alien physiology, he's not a random nobody who developed those abilities just by screwing around.
Barry was chosen by the speed force.
Cyborg is the way he is because of the Motherbox, it's not the result of technical innovation. And even if it were, Star Labs shouldn't be comparable to some random nobody.
And White Dragon is a nobody. He's not the DCEU equivalent of Doctor Doom. He's probably more comparable than Stilt Man. Case in point: The fact that they didn't try to arrest him with something else after the charges were dropped, even though they all seem to know who he is.
James Gunn has earned enough benefit of the doubt for me to believe it's not a plot hole, and that he has an explanation for it if someone asks.
Also, Waller works with criminals instead of unaffiliated supers because she can swing getting bombs implanted in the criminals and dangle an easily achievable reward (reduced sentences) in front of them. Control is a huge thing for her.
The key failure phrase here is "in the real world". Trying to be too "in the real world" is the same nonsense that makes the Snyder films big sacks of trash. I'm not watching comic book films and shows for the gritty realism.
And Waller being believable isn't the problem. Waller operating semi-openly as an outright mass murderer in a world of people like Superman is definitely a problem. Is Supes going to do an orbital flyover of her house at night and vaporize her? No. But she deals with villains that have interacted with Superman and at least one of them, or their associates, would definitely reveal that program instantly to Superman upon getting caught. And even if it's some random villain, you know Superman isn't going to just ignore the guy claiming a specific prison in Louisiana is running a murder squad; all Supes has to hear is one of those great Waller conversations about "do what we say or we blow up your brain or throw your underage daughter in murder-prison" and boom, that's done. Or something like with Starro? No way Supes doesn't zip down there as a followup and start asking questions, ending at the people who saved the city (possibly the country) and would be eager to see Waller getting brought down by Superman.
It actually genuinely irritates me that in Gunn's Suicide Squad, the lady who clocks Waller with the golf club stops after she knocks Waller out. That lady knows for a fact that Waller will literally get you killed for insulting her shirt and, at a minimum, letting Waller live will mean getting tossed in a small dark hole forever. Any situation where Waller walks out of that room is worse for that lady, so why the fuck does she clonk Waller and just... stop? It's honestly my biggest gripe of the movie because out of pure self-preservation, the lady should've made absolutely sure Waller was not getting back up, ever.
But I'm guessing Gunn has long-term plans for Waller, and I just hope the ending is poetic.
You're forgetting that we're talking about Snyderverse Superman.
You can rationalize this simply by Waller acknowledging that she needs people who can keep her in check because she's terrified of herself without them.
The same reason Superman gives Batman a kryptonite ring in the comic books.
This Waller doesn't give two fucks about anyone except who can she control and, apparently, her daughter. There's not even a hint of actual justification or nobility in this Waller's actions, you dance to her tune or she will explode your brain. And sometimes dancing to the tune gets you the same result anyway. No fucking way is she going to put any kind of "check" on herself that might interfere with her ability to throw a total shit-fit and blow people's heads off to be in control again.
Like I said, I'm just hoping Gunn has plans for Waller. Big, explodey, fiery, poetic plans. Or something like her ending up as a permanent resident inside her own hell-prison.
Because Waller is her cousin.
edit: cousin, not aunt
It's not a 'plot hole'. He's a comic book villain. There, done. I sincerely hope it never gets explained; it doesn't matter.
I think people are reacting to the way he chooses to live. He's not just smart, he's educated. It's applied brilliance. He still runs with prison gangs and local clan members, wore a mullet in his prime and ran dirt hole fight club. Poor people shit. Most educated people, racist or not, run from the trappings of poverty.
I think it strikes viewers as off because it's an atypical choice. Of course racists can be smart. The ones that make something of themselves usually present themselves differently.
...did I just solve the argument?
Also, being sick of superheroes and such, I can't believe how much I enjoyed suicide squad and how great peacemaker was.