ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Like if the Browns were going to put a clause to actually protect the franchise from him being unable to play, it would have affected the trade cost somehow. Clearly it didn't and they gave up what represents a franchise qb in his prime years.
As much as "triggered" has become a shithead dogwhistle, I think it's actually a correct use in this case. As in the original, pre-edgelord meaning.
The case and the coverage around it was likely triggering for survivors.
Yeah that's fair. I'll admit it's been a long time since I've seen it used in anything resembling a legitimate way, aaand everything the Haslems have done is terrible so I was definitely defaulting to reading that in a negative light.
Unlike ray rice and some other public scandals, the league has known this was coming a long time and had a chance to develop a strategy. So I’m sure this is all part of the plan, more or less. It even gives Goodell-slash-the-league the chance to make their critics eat crow a bit by upping the suspension
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
There will be no positive outcome. If the league knew about this, then why wait until a suspension was levied and backlash immediate?
Their pattern is always the same. Try and appear uninvolved and then fuck everything up anyway. Everything they do is always as a reaction to something that could have been addressed early on or even before it happens.
The Browns were NOT going to void a contract after giving up half a decade of picks for him. You've got to be joking, man.
Yeah so my fervent hope is Watson gets paid but just never plays due some combo of suspensions/injury/prison or forgetting how to play because of proximity to Lake Erie….
….and then his dick falls off and he goes broke trying to fix it
It's a beautiful dream.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
Unlike ray rice and some other public scandals, the league has known this was coming a long time and had a chance to develop a strategy. So I’m sure this is all part of the plan, more or less. It even gives Goodell-slash-the-league the chance to make their critics eat crow a bit by upping the suspension
Having the arbitrator tell Goodell "you were so bad at your job that 6 games is the best I can do" is an unequivocal L for the league.
You can't even spin it as a Machiavellian plot to put power back in the hands of the commish since the whole reason they went to this system was to stop Rog from making the league look dumpster fire in regards to discipline.
This was the first big case under the new CBA rules where an arbitrator reviews “personal conduct policy” issues and renders judgment
This process was created because the NFLs discipline has been so slapdash arbitrary
Because there’s no solid precedent, the judge gives a slapdash arbitrary judgment
The NFL appeals
The NFL now gets to undermine the new process in the very first case by giving a final, non-reviewable, slapdash arbitrary penalty
So suppose a couple weeks after whatever the final appeal punishment is set; what happens if another accuser comes forward. Like is everyone assaulted by Watson included in this ruling, like it is a class action suit or something.
This was the first big case under the new CBA rules where an arbitrator reviews “personal conduct policy” issues and renders judgment
This process was created because the NFLs discipline has been so slapdash arbitrary
Because there’s no solid precedent, the judge gives a slapdash arbitrary judgment
The NFL appeals
The NFL now gets to undermine the new process in the very first case by giving a final, non-reviewable, slapdash arbitrary penalty
Fucking lol
It's worth noting they can only do this if the arbitrator finds the player guilty.
This step is written into the new process. It's not a secret -- it's a single easy to read paragraph that directly follows the part of the CBA where the independent arbitrator is established. The players signed it 2 years ago, and this was the "new improved system". Everyone just grossly exaggerated the details and essentially said it "took roger goodell out of the process". No, it never did -- it took him out of the process of determining guilt.
It's just a two step process now.
Step 1) NFL acts as prosecutor and NFLPA acts as defense. Independent arbitrator hears the cases, determines if player is guilty or not based on evidence presented, and recommends a suspension.
Step 2) If the arbitrator says the player is not guilty, case closed. NFL and NFLPA cannot appeal. If arbitrator says they're guilty, NFL and NFLPA can appeal, and as expressly stated in the CBA, the appeal goes directly to Roger Goodell or his designee, which yeah, get to do whatever the hell they want as far as suspension goes. It's hilariously one sided -- they have to listen to 3 "independent experts", but have no obligation at all to heed their advice.
The whole "undermining the arbitrator" thing is a bit of a misnomer -- it's just step 2 of the new process.
This is why it looks like the NFLPA has absolutely no leg to stand on in suing the league. They would be suing that Roger Goodell is doing a thing that is expressly permissible in the CBA they signed 2 years ago, written in plain easy to understand English.
Was it maybe silly for the players to give the commissioner complete final say over "sentencing" when players are found guilty? Yeah probably. But this is the system they fought for and "won" in the new CBA. It would have prevented Ezekiel Elliot from getting suspended (as the arbitrator in his case "pre new CBA" said he wasn't guilty and recommended a suspension of 0 games), but not much beyond that scope.
So suppose a couple weeks after whatever the final appeal punishment is set; what happens if another accuser comes forward. Like is everyone assaulted by Watson included in this ruling, like it is a class action suit or something.
This was the first big case under the new CBA rules where an arbitrator reviews “personal conduct policy” issues and renders judgment
This process was created because the NFLs discipline has been so slapdash arbitrary
Because there’s no solid precedent, the judge gives a slapdash arbitrary judgment
The NFL appeals
The NFL now gets to undermine the new process in the very first case by giving a final, non-reviewable, slapdash arbitrary penalty
Fucking lol
The judge didn’t give a slapdash arbitrary punishment. She gave a punishment as consistent with the prior precedent as possible. It’s just that that precedence was slapdash and arbitrary.
the raiders have seemed to dress their runningbacks though
RB1,2, 3 and4 (Drake, Jacobs, White and Abdullah) have all touched the ball, like no idea what the plan is here
and davante adams has his pads on on the sideline, like are they really gonna put him in? lol
This was the first big case under the new CBA rules where an arbitrator reviews “personal conduct policy” issues and renders judgment
This process was created because the NFLs discipline has been so slapdash arbitrary
Because there’s no solid precedent, the judge gives a slapdash arbitrary judgment
The NFL appeals
The NFL now gets to undermine the new process in the very first case by giving a final, non-reviewable, slapdash arbitrary penalty
Fucking lol
The judge didn’t give a slapdash arbitrary punishment. She gave a punishment as consistent with the prior precedent as possible. It’s just that that precedence was slapdash and arbitrary.
She wasn't supposed to give a judgement consistent with prior precedent. The whole point of creating the new system is that the precedent is trash.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
This was the first big case under the new CBA rules where an arbitrator reviews “personal conduct policy” issues and renders judgment
This process was created because the NFLs discipline has been so slapdash arbitrary
Because there’s no solid precedent, the judge gives a slapdash arbitrary judgment
The NFL appeals
The NFL now gets to undermine the new process in the very first case by giving a final, non-reviewable, slapdash arbitrary penalty
Fucking lol
The judge didn’t give a slapdash arbitrary punishment. She gave a punishment as consistent with the prior precedent as possible. It’s just that that precedence was slapdash and arbitrary.
She wasn't supposed to give a judgement consistent with prior precedent. The whole point of creating the new system is that the precedent is trash.
Yeah that part just seemed like… cowardice. Citing the NFL’s lack of consistent punishments would make sense as an explanation for why your punishment is so harsh but not for a slap on the wrist.
This was the first big case under the new CBA rules where an arbitrator reviews “personal conduct policy” issues and renders judgment
This process was created because the NFLs discipline has been so slapdash arbitrary
Because there’s no solid precedent, the judge gives a slapdash arbitrary judgment
The NFL appeals
The NFL now gets to undermine the new process in the very first case by giving a final, non-reviewable, slapdash arbitrary penalty
Fucking lol
The judge didn’t give a slapdash arbitrary punishment. She gave a punishment as consistent with the prior precedent as possible. It’s just that that precedence was slapdash and arbitrary.
She wasn't supposed to give a judgement consistent with prior precedent. The whole point of creating the new system is that the precedent is trash.
Also, it wasn't consistent with prior precedent.
Zeke and Jameis got 3 weeks for single incidents.
Watson got 6 for at least TWENTY FIVE incidents.
If Watson had gotten ~4.5 years, I think most people would be satisfied that the NFL were taking it seriously, even if they might prefer he never takes another snap.
Even three, plus one per additional*, would be approaching two years.
* again, I don't see how multiple incidents shouldn't be a multiplier, let alone a reduction.
The volume of his conduct may be unprecedented, but the individual actions were not.
This was the first big case under the new CBA rules where an arbitrator reviews “personal conduct policy” issues and renders judgment
This process was created because the NFLs discipline has been so slapdash arbitrary
Because there’s no solid precedent, the judge gives a slapdash arbitrary judgment
The NFL appeals
The NFL now gets to undermine the new process in the very first case by giving a final, non-reviewable, slapdash arbitrary penalty
Fucking lol
The judge didn’t give a slapdash arbitrary punishment. She gave a punishment as consistent with the prior precedent as possible. It’s just that that precedence was slapdash and arbitrary.
She wasn't supposed to give a judgement consistent with prior precedent. The whole point of creating the new system is that the precedent is trash.
Also, it wasn't consistent with prior precedent.
Zeke and Jameis got 3 weeks for single incidents.
Watson got 6 for at least TWENTY FIVE incidents.
If Watson had gotten ~4.5 years, I think most people would be satisfied that the NFL were taking it seriously, even if they might prefer he never takes another snap.
Even three, plus one per additional*, would be approaching two years.
* again, I don't see how multiple incidents shouldn't be a multiplier, let alone a reduction.
The volume of his conduct may be unprecedented, but the individual actions were not.
She was only ruling on 4 incidents. The league only presented 5 cases and one of those got tossed for reasons that are escaping me at the moment.
Still means he should be looking at 13 games at a minimum if you're going off of prior precedent.
Point of order: Winston’s and Zeke’s assaults aren’t great precedents for Watson’s. Watson deliberately preyed on vulnerable victims, using the initial leverage to get them to meet with him alone and at a place he chose, had prepared an NDA, and practiced what he would say and do to trap his victims and provide plausible deniability about consent or accident or whatever.
The NFL shouldn’t even need to rule on this because the justice system should have taken care of it and welp
Point of order: Winston’s and Zeke’s assaults aren’t great precedents for Watson’s. Watson deliberately preyed on vulnerable victims, using the initial leverage to get them to meet with him alone and at a place he chose, had prepared an NDA, and practiced what he would say and do to trap his victims and provide plausible deniability about consent or accident or whatever.
The NFL shouldn’t even need to rule on this because the justice system should have taken care of it and welp
Oh, Watson’s assaults were absolutely worse, especially because of the premeditation. But as Preach pointed out, the judge doesn't appear to think so. I'm working purely off the judge's reasoning, and still can't figure out how four assaults only equals double the time of existing precedent (according to her thinking) as one.
Anyone know why the other twenty assaults weren't included? I mean, if the NFL want to quintuple the six to thirty, to account for the other cases, that'd be a good start. But the idea of "we're going to stop counting crimes, and only account for a couple of them and disregard the rest is some weird shit.
Point of order: Winston’s and Zeke’s assaults aren’t great precedents for Watson’s. Watson deliberately preyed on vulnerable victims, using the initial leverage to get them to meet with him alone and at a place he chose, had prepared an NDA, and practiced what he would say and do to trap his victims and provide plausible deniability about consent or accident or whatever.
The NFL shouldn’t even need to rule on this because the justice system should have taken care of it and welp
Oh, Watson’s assaults were absolutely worse, especially because of the premeditation. But as Preach pointed out, the judge doesn't appear to think so. I'm working purely off the judge's reasoning, and still can't figure out how four assaults only equals double the time of existing precedent (according to her thinking) as one.
Anyone know why the other twenty assaults weren't included? I mean, if the NFL want to quintuple the six to thirty, to account for the other cases, that'd be a good start. But the idea of "we're going to stop counting crimes, and only account for a couple of them and disregard the rest is some weird shit.
They felt that those 5 were the best documented and most likely to prove “guilt”?
I mean it’s definitely not that they wanted to limit the damage or anything.
Point of order: Winston’s and Zeke’s assaults aren’t great precedents for Watson’s. Watson deliberately preyed on vulnerable victims, using the initial leverage to get them to meet with him alone and at a place he chose, had prepared an NDA, and practiced what he would say and do to trap his victims and provide plausible deniability about consent or accident or whatever.
The NFL shouldn’t even need to rule on this because the justice system should have taken care of it and welp
Oh, Watson’s assaults were absolutely worse, especially because of the premeditation. But as Preach pointed out, the judge doesn't appear to think so. I'm working purely off the judge's reasoning, and still can't figure out how four assaults only equals double the time of existing precedent (according to her thinking) as one.
Anyone know why the other twenty assaults weren't included? I mean, if the NFL want to quintuple the six to thirty, to account for the other cases, that'd be a good start. But the idea of "we're going to stop counting crimes, and only account for a couple of them and disregard the rest is some weird shit.
They felt that those 5 were the best documented and most likely to prove “guilt”?
I mean it’s definitely not that they wanted to limit the damage or anything.
Cool. So the NFL/judge's position is that 80% of the cases aren't "important enough" to even be properly considered.
The NFLs investigation, as reported by the victims, was to determine how much they deserved it and/or how they were secretly sex workers, featuring questions such as the classic “what were you wearing” and not much about determining the facts of Watson’s misconduct
Presumably the 5 cases they presented in this arbitration were “best” victims I guess, with all implied grossness intended
"You don’t hear this too often: Montez Sweat was chasing a scrambling Carson Wentz from behind and was yelling “Get rid of it! Get rid of it!” Wentz ran out of bounds instead."
- Matthew Paras is the beat reporter for Washington.
Reminder, this is training camp.
Just in case you had any ideas Washington wouldn't remain as big a dumpster fire on field as they are off.
+14
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y2jake215certified Flat Birther theoristthe Last Good Boy onlineRegistered Userregular
Did Brady do anything work being punished for? I guess responding to the texts?
NFL discipline is a joke anyway and I haven’t followed this closely beyond reading the Reddit headlines, so I may be missing something important.
A player, as far as i know, has never been disciplined for being tampered with, in any sport. It’s not against the rules for them. I’m not even sure it’s against the rules for them to DO the tampering
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
it's not, which is an issue the NBA has faced in recent years. A team can't tamper with other teams' personnel/negotiations, but if LeBron happens to call up three or four of his buddies and discuss their possibly-shared-futures, well
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
it's not, which is an issue the NBA has faced in recent years. A team can't tamper with other teams' personnel/negotiations, but if LeBron happens to call up three or four of his buddies and discuss their possibly-shared-futures, well
It would be much worse for a league to ban players from talking positively or negatively about their employers, which is the only way you could enforce "tampering" at that level.
it's not, which is an issue the NBA has faced in recent years. A team can't tamper with other teams' personnel/negotiations, but if LeBron happens to call up three or four of his buddies and discuss their possibly-shared-futures, well
And the reality is that a lot of "superteams" form because of the players, not the owners. The Ringer had a good overview of the issue in the NBA, which is applicable elsewhere:
The good news is it often blows up in their faces because it turns out most players don't make good GMs
Did someone say LeBron James?
I mean originally when he went to the Heat it worked out pretty good.
He was 25 and absolutely able to carry any team. LA winning in the Bubble gave people a false sense of ability. Individually and as a team. But I'm sure it'll all work out when he forces whatever team he's on to draft his son.
The good news is it often blows up in their faces because it turns out most players don't make good GMs
Did someone say LeBron James?
I mean originally when he went to the Heat it worked out pretty good.
From the very beginning Miami had to comb the waivers to fill the roster and by the end of his last season they had the weakest backcourt in the league.
LeBron has a championship with every team he took control of but he didn't make his own life very easy either.
Posts
Yeah that's fair. I'll admit it's been a long time since I've seen it used in anything resembling a legitimate way, aaand everything the Haslems have done is terrible so I was definitely defaulting to reading that in a negative light.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Their pattern is always the same. Try and appear uninvolved and then fuck everything up anyway. Everything they do is always as a reaction to something that could have been addressed early on or even before it happens.
It's a beautiful dream.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Having the arbitrator tell Goodell "you were so bad at your job that 6 games is the best I can do" is an unequivocal L for the league.
You can't even spin it as a Machiavellian plot to put power back in the hands of the commish since the whole reason they went to this system was to stop Rog from making the league look dumpster fire in regards to discipline.
This was the first big case under the new CBA rules where an arbitrator reviews “personal conduct policy” issues and renders judgment
This process was created because the NFLs discipline has been so slapdash arbitrary
Because there’s no solid precedent, the judge gives a slapdash arbitrary judgment
The NFL appeals
The NFL now gets to undermine the new process in the very first case by giving a final, non-reviewable, slapdash arbitrary penalty
Fucking lol
It's worth noting they can only do this if the arbitrator finds the player guilty.
This step is written into the new process. It's not a secret -- it's a single easy to read paragraph that directly follows the part of the CBA where the independent arbitrator is established. The players signed it 2 years ago, and this was the "new improved system". Everyone just grossly exaggerated the details and essentially said it "took roger goodell out of the process". No, it never did -- it took him out of the process of determining guilt.
It's just a two step process now.
Step 1) NFL acts as prosecutor and NFLPA acts as defense. Independent arbitrator hears the cases, determines if player is guilty or not based on evidence presented, and recommends a suspension.
Step 2) If the arbitrator says the player is not guilty, case closed. NFL and NFLPA cannot appeal. If arbitrator says they're guilty, NFL and NFLPA can appeal, and as expressly stated in the CBA, the appeal goes directly to Roger Goodell or his designee, which yeah, get to do whatever the hell they want as far as suspension goes. It's hilariously one sided -- they have to listen to 3 "independent experts", but have no obligation at all to heed their advice.
The whole "undermining the arbitrator" thing is a bit of a misnomer -- it's just step 2 of the new process.
This is why it looks like the NFLPA has absolutely no leg to stand on in suing the league. They would be suing that Roger Goodell is doing a thing that is expressly permissible in the CBA they signed 2 years ago, written in plain easy to understand English.
Was it maybe silly for the players to give the commissioner complete final say over "sentencing" when players are found guilty? Yeah probably. But this is the system they fought for and "won" in the new CBA. It would have prevented Ezekiel Elliot from getting suspended (as the arbitrator in his case "pre new CBA" said he wasn't guilty and recommended a suspension of 0 games), but not much beyond that scope.
Apparently our affiliate is preempting it for local news?
Fake edit: or maybe not, there's a blurb in the corner that says it's delayed for something I can't read
Weather? Lightning? Tornadoes? Locusts? Frogs?
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
trying to save us from these jags for at least another hour
All but one of the 25 settled out of court
The judge didn’t give a slapdash arbitrary punishment. She gave a punishment as consistent with the prior precedent as possible. It’s just that that precedence was slapdash and arbitrary.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
RB1,2, 3 and4 (Drake, Jacobs, White and Abdullah) have all touched the ball, like no idea what the plan is here
and davante adams has his pads on on the sideline, like are they really gonna put him in? lol
She wasn't supposed to give a judgement consistent with prior precedent. The whole point of creating the new system is that the precedent is trash.
Yeah that part just seemed like… cowardice. Citing the NFL’s lack of consistent punishments would make sense as an explanation for why your punishment is so harsh but not for a slap on the wrist.
Also, it wasn't consistent with prior precedent.
Zeke and Jameis got 3 weeks for single incidents.
Watson got 6 for at least TWENTY FIVE incidents.
If Watson had gotten ~4.5 years, I think most people would be satisfied that the NFL were taking it seriously, even if they might prefer he never takes another snap.
Even three, plus one per additional*, would be approaching two years.
* again, I don't see how multiple incidents shouldn't be a multiplier, let alone a reduction.
The volume of his conduct may be unprecedented, but the individual actions were not.
pleasepaypreacher.net
She was only ruling on 4 incidents. The league only presented 5 cases and one of those got tossed for reasons that are escaping me at the moment.
Still means he should be looking at 13 games at a minimum if you're going off of prior precedent.
The NFL shouldn’t even need to rule on this because the justice system should have taken care of it and welp
Oh, Watson’s assaults were absolutely worse, especially because of the premeditation. But as Preach pointed out, the judge doesn't appear to think so. I'm working purely off the judge's reasoning, and still can't figure out how four assaults only equals double the time of existing precedent (according to her thinking) as one.
Anyone know why the other twenty assaults weren't included? I mean, if the NFL want to quintuple the six to thirty, to account for the other cases, that'd be a good start. But the idea of "we're going to stop counting crimes, and only account for a couple of them and disregard the rest is some weird shit.
They felt that those 5 were the best documented and most likely to prove “guilt”?
I mean it’s definitely not that they wanted to limit the damage or anything.
Cool. So the NFL/judge's position is that 80% of the cases aren't "important enough" to even be properly considered.
Yupyup, that sounds accurate.
Presumably the 5 cases they presented in this arbitration were “best” victims I guess, with all implied grossness intended
"You don’t hear this too often: Montez Sweat was chasing a scrambling Carson Wentz from behind and was yelling “Get rid of it! Get rid of it!” Wentz ran out of bounds instead."
- Matthew Paras is the beat reporter for Washington.
Reminder, this is training camp.
Just in case you had any ideas Washington wouldn't remain as big a dumpster fire on field as they are off.
A player, as far as i know, has never been disciplined for being tampered with, in any sport. It’s not against the rules for them. I’m not even sure it’s against the rules for them to DO the tampering
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
It would be much worse for a league to ban players from talking positively or negatively about their employers, which is the only way you could enforce "tampering" at that level.
And the reality is that a lot of "superteams" form because of the players, not the owners. The Ringer had a good overview of the issue in the NBA, which is applicable elsewhere:
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Did someone say LeBron James?
I mean originally when he went to the Heat it worked out pretty good.
pleasepaypreacher.net
He was 25 and absolutely able to carry any team. LA winning in the Bubble gave people a false sense of ability. Individually and as a team. But I'm sure it'll all work out when he forces whatever team he's on to draft his son.
From the very beginning Miami had to comb the waivers to fill the roster and by the end of his last season they had the weakest backcourt in the league.
LeBron has a championship with every team he took control of but he didn't make his own life very easy either.