Penny Arcade - Comic - Finalized

Dog

Penny Arcade - Comic - Finalized

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here

Pyrian

Is this their shortest comic-link news post ever?

RatherDashing89

I've been conflicted because I want to share my thoughts about this show on forums or in Facebook, but while I'm happy to give a positive take on something most people are dragging, I don't want to be the guy yukking someone else's yum.

But man, I don't get the positive response to this show, particularly its ending. It had one great line with perfect delivery, and that was it. Episode 5 was the first hint that there might be some thematic throughline or intended point to the whole thing, and episode 6 didn't follow through on it at all. They brought back a beloved actor and a beloved character and proceeded to portray him in a completely different way, while not actually *doing* anything with his changed character or explaining how he returns to how he was in episode 4: prequel McGregor, as badly written as he was, still resembles ANH Guiness far more than McGregor resembles himself in these two depictions.

The other thing I really don't understand is how everyone lost their shit over TLJ Luke saying that the Jedi were kind of bad and dumb (which everyone had been saying anyway since the prequels) and yet no one seems to have a problem with Obi-Wan in this, which is a far worse fall in my opinion.

Thee thing that gives him the strength to defeat Vader is thinking of the kids. And then he stands up and goes Super Saiyan and throws rocks at Vader. So...he's channeling his passion for those he is attached to to gain the strength to enact violence, and yet the music and cinematography make it seem like this is his victory and his arc, despite it looking a whole lot like the Dark Side to me. And him not killing Vader doesn't count as reversing that because the show still treats his rock throwing as a triumph of his will despite it being extremely un-Jedi.

And I realize I am doing a very poor job of making my argument that I don't want to be the negative nancy, huh. Well, as long as I'm here, one more thing. I really don't typically care about plot holes, but I really wish that Star Wars would realize that if you are going to hang your stakes on a spatial relationship (such as a chase), you actually need to be willing to think about and use space rather than undermining distance entirely as a concept. You can't build tension around getting somewhere or being chased somewhere and still let your characters zip around the galaxy completely freely. Either have a big universe or a small one.

So. Vader broke off the chase of the rebel transport with his giant Star Destroyer so they could follow Obi-Wan instead. And then proceeds to deploy his personal shuttle to follow Obi-Wan...so why couldn't the big ship keep going after the transport? Then, when the show needs Obi-Wan to jump to Tatooine in no time at all to resolve the completely pointless plot there, he takes his dropship into hyperspeed! But the whole reason they couldn't escape was that the transport's hyperdrive was broken! (we'll put aside the notion that the transport was still trying to go somewhere with no hyperdrive, as if you can get anywhere in space at sublight). So, they couldn't have packed some more people onto his fairly sizeable dropship and have them escape?

Again, it's not about the fact that there is a plot hole. It's that they build the entire tension around not being able to do something, and then proceed to do it anyway because they need to jump the plot to another location. I can't be too hard on this show for this because Star Wars does this all the time, but it just gets to me because it keeps happening.

MarcinMN

blah

Pyrian wrote: »

Is this their shortest comic-link news post ever?

I couldn't say for sure if it's the shortest, but it is a short one. Maybe they felt it was too soon to talk about the final episode for fear of spoilers.

el_vicio

RatherDashing89 wrote: »

I've been conflicted because I want to share my thoughts about this show on forums or in Facebook, but while I'm happy to give a positive take on something most people are dragging, I don't want to be the guy yukking someone else's yum.

But man, I don't get the positive response to this show, particularly its ending. It had one great line with perfect delivery, and that was it. Episode 5 was the first hint that there might be some thematic throughline or intended point to the whole thing, and episode 6 didn't follow through on it at all. They brought back a beloved actor and a beloved character and proceeded to portray him in a completely different way, while not actually *doing* anything with his changed character or explaining how he returns to how he was in episode 4: prequel McGregor, as badly written as he was, still resembles ANH Guiness far more than McGregor resembles himself in these two depictions.

The other thing I really don't understand is how everyone lost their shit over TLJ Luke saying that the Jedi were kind of bad and dumb (which everyone had been saying anyway since the prequels) and yet no one seems to have a problem with Obi-Wan in this, which is a far worse fall in my opinion.

Thee thing that gives him the strength to defeat Vader is thinking of the kids. And then he stands up and goes Super Saiyan and throws rocks at Vader. So...he's channeling his passion for those he is attached to to gain the strength to enact violence, and yet the music and cinematography make it seem like this is his victory and his arc, despite it looking a whole lot like the Dark Side to me. And him not killing Vader doesn't count as reversing that because the show still treats his rock throwing as a triumph of his will despite it being extremely un-Jedi.

And I realize I am doing a very poor job of making my argument that I don't want to be the negative nancy, huh. Well, as long as I'm here, one more thing. I really don't typically care about plot holes, but I really wish that Star Wars would realize that if you are going to hang your stakes on a spatial relationship (such as a chase), you actually need to be willing to think about and use space rather than undermining distance entirely as a concept. You can't build tension around getting somewhere or being chased somewhere and still let your characters zip around the galaxy completely freely. Either have a big universe or a small one.

So. Vader broke off the chase of the rebel transport with his giant Star Destroyer so they could follow Obi-Wan instead. And then proceeds to deploy his personal shuttle to follow Obi-Wan...so why couldn't the big ship keep going after the transport? Then, when the show needs Obi-Wan to jump to Tatooine in no time at all to resolve the completely pointless plot there, he takes his dropship into hyperspeed! But the whole reason they couldn't escape was that the transport's hyperdrive was broken! (we'll put aside the notion that the transport was still trying to go somewhere with no hyperdrive, as if you can get anywhere in space at sublight). So, they couldn't have packed some more people onto his fairly sizeable dropship and have them escape?

Again, it's not about the fact that there is a plot hole. It's that they build the entire tension around not being able to do something, and then proceed to do it anyway because they need to jump the plot to another location. I can't be too hard on this show for this because Star Wars does this all the time, but it just gets to me because it keeps happening.

Well yeah. It's a mess. There are some enjoyable bits, but for the most part, it's a mess. And idk, not enjoying something and articulating why shouldn't be dismissed as "yukking someone else's yum".

MarcinMN

el_vicio wrote: »

RatherDashing89 wrote: »

I've been conflicted because I want to share my thoughts about this show on forums or in Facebook, but while I'm happy to give a positive take on something most people are dragging, I don't want to be the guy yukking someone else's yum.

But man, I don't get the positive response to this show, particularly its ending. It had one great line with perfect delivery, and that was it. Episode 5 was the first hint that there might be some thematic throughline or intended point to the whole thing, and episode 6 didn't follow through on it at all. They brought back a beloved actor and a beloved character and proceeded to portray him in a completely different way, while not actually *doing* anything with his changed character or explaining how he returns to how he was in episode 4: prequel McGregor, as badly written as he was, still resembles ANH Guiness far more than McGregor resembles himself in these two depictions.

The other thing I really don't understand is how everyone lost their shit over TLJ Luke saying that the Jedi were kind of bad and dumb (which everyone had been saying anyway since the prequels) and yet no one seems to have a problem with Obi-Wan in this, which is a far worse fall in my opinion.

Thee thing that gives him the strength to defeat Vader is thinking of the kids. And then he stands up and goes Super Saiyan and throws rocks at Vader. So...he's channeling his passion for those he is attached to to gain the strength to enact violence, and yet the music and cinematography make it seem like this is his victory and his arc, despite it looking a whole lot like the Dark Side to me. And him not killing Vader doesn't count as reversing that because the show still treats his rock throwing as a triumph of his will despite it being extremely un-Jedi.

And I realize I am doing a very poor job of making my argument that I don't want to be the negative nancy, huh. Well, as long as I'm here, one more thing. I really don't typically care about plot holes, but I really wish that Star Wars would realize that if you are going to hang your stakes on a spatial relationship (such as a chase), you actually need to be willing to think about and use space rather than undermining distance entirely as a concept. You can't build tension around getting somewhere or being chased somewhere and still let your characters zip around the galaxy completely freely. Either have a big universe or a small one.

So. Vader broke off the chase of the rebel transport with his giant Star Destroyer so they could follow Obi-Wan instead. And then proceeds to deploy his personal shuttle to follow Obi-Wan...so why couldn't the big ship keep going after the transport? Then, when the show needs Obi-Wan to jump to Tatooine in no time at all to resolve the completely pointless plot there, he takes his dropship into hyperspeed! But the whole reason they couldn't escape was that the transport's hyperdrive was broken! (we'll put aside the notion that the transport was still trying to go somewhere with no hyperdrive, as if you can get anywhere in space at sublight). So, they couldn't have packed some more people onto his fairly sizeable dropship and have them escape?

Again, it's not about the fact that there is a plot hole. It's that they build the entire tension around not being able to do something, and then proceed to do it anyway because they need to jump the plot to another location. I can't be too hard on this show for this because Star Wars does this all the time, but it just gets to me because it keeps happening.

Well yeah. It's a mess. There are some enjoyable bits, but for the most part, it's a mess. And idk, not enjoying something and articulating why shouldn't be dismissed as "yukking someone else's yum".

I'm sure this isn't for everyone, but my approach with anything Star Wars these days is to wave at the silly and/or irritating stuff as it passes by, comment on it to whomever is watching with you if you must, and then move on. There's still much enjoyment to be had if you don't let the flaws take up permanent residence in your head. I watched this series with my younger brother and there were several times when I commented to him on something that was cheesy or simply didn't make sense, but I still enjoyed the series overall because I'm a big Obi-Wan fan and I was just happy to see Ewan and Hayden return to the franchise.

In my humble opinion, all Star Wars is fan fiction these days, it's just some of it is more widely distributed than others. After all, what are people like Dave Filoni, Jon Favreau, J.J Abrams, and Rian Johnson if not people who grew up loving Star Wars and are now creating material for that universe? The major difference between them and the person who has a folder full of bad Star Wars fanfics in the C drive of their old 1990s desktop PC is that the powers that be let the big guys produce theirs in public view. Fan fiction can be great, but it's also very prone to cheesiness because it's where the creator can finally fully realize every scenario that ever passed through their head and started with the phrase "Wouldn't it be totally awesome if..."

el_vicio

Sure. That's how I approach it by now as well: I don't care anymore and take the tiny bits that I think are good. But it's sad that it had to come to this, and that the billion dollar company that is shoving that content out the door on the whole does not seem to be more aspirational.

Taika Waititi has the right idea moving forward, but who knows how that'll turn out.

Hahnsoo1

el_vicio wrote: »

RatherDashing89 wrote: »

I've been conflicted because I want to share my thoughts about this show on forums or in Facebook, but while I'm happy to give a positive take on something most people are dragging, I don't want to be the guy yukking someone else's yum.

But man, I don't get the positive response to this show, particularly its ending. It had one great line with perfect delivery, and that was it. Episode 5 was the first hint that there might be some thematic throughline or intended point to the whole thing, and episode 6 didn't follow through on it at all. They brought back a beloved actor and a beloved character and proceeded to portray him in a completely different way, while not actually *doing* anything with his changed character or explaining how he returns to how he was in episode 4: prequel McGregor, as badly written as he was, still resembles ANH Guiness far more than McGregor resembles himself in these two depictions.

The other thing I really don't understand is how everyone lost their shit over TLJ Luke saying that the Jedi were kind of bad and dumb (which everyone had been saying anyway since the prequels) and yet no one seems to have a problem with Obi-Wan in this, which is a far worse fall in my opinion.

Thee thing that gives him the strength to defeat Vader is thinking of the kids. And then he stands up and goes Super Saiyan and throws rocks at Vader. So...he's channeling his passion for those he is attached to to gain the strength to enact violence, and yet the music and cinematography make it seem like this is his victory and his arc, despite it looking a whole lot like the Dark Side to me. And him not killing Vader doesn't count as reversing that because the show still treats his rock throwing as a triumph of his will despite it being extremely un-Jedi.

And I realize I am doing a very poor job of making my argument that I don't want to be the negative nancy, huh. Well, as long as I'm here, one more thing. I really don't typically care about plot holes, but I really wish that Star Wars would realize that if you are going to hang your stakes on a spatial relationship (such as a chase), you actually need to be willing to think about and use space rather than undermining distance entirely as a concept. You can't build tension around getting somewhere or being chased somewhere and still let your characters zip around the galaxy completely freely. Either have a big universe or a small one.

So. Vader broke off the chase of the rebel transport with his giant Star Destroyer so they could follow Obi-Wan instead. And then proceeds to deploy his personal shuttle to follow Obi-Wan...so why couldn't the big ship keep going after the transport? Then, when the show needs Obi-Wan to jump to Tatooine in no time at all to resolve the completely pointless plot there, he takes his dropship into hyperspeed! But the whole reason they couldn't escape was that the transport's hyperdrive was broken! (we'll put aside the notion that the transport was still trying to go somewhere with no hyperdrive, as if you can get anywhere in space at sublight). So, they couldn't have packed some more people onto his fairly sizeable dropship and have them escape?

Again, it's not about the fact that there is a plot hole. It's that they build the entire tension around not being able to do something, and then proceed to do it anyway because they need to jump the plot to another location. I can't be too hard on this show for this because Star Wars does this all the time, but it just gets to me because it keeps happening.

Well yeah. It's a mess. There are some enjoyable bits, but for the most part, it's a mess. And idk, not enjoying something and articulating why shouldn't be dismissed as "yukking someone else's yum".

It’s too easy to be passionate about it and ending up making someone feel invalidated or angry. I would rather that all people have the empathy to step back a bit and say to themselves “well, it wasn’t for me, but it looks like it’s for them, and that’s okay”. Also, even if we were perfect wordsmiths (lol), there is no way over the Internet to gauge how people would react and if they buy into a sense of community with what amounts to a total stranger to accept your argument in good faith. We can’t even do this with friends and family all the time.

There is an awful lot of dunking on the Internet, and there’s no need to contribute to that. Sure, if you are asked, you are always free to respond honestly. But sometimes people need to read the room and see that everyone else is having fun, so just let them have it. I really appreciate that RatherDashing89 took time to acknowledge that other people are enjoying it, and prefaced accordingly.

el_vicio

Hahnsoo1 wrote: »

Sure, if you are asked, you are always free to respond honestly

I don't think that's how forums work, or dialogue and discussion in general. Anyway, I disagree with your perspective for the most part, but I've said that in another thread, I don't want to retread that ground. Obv I don't wade into places where people treat Obi-Wan as the second coming and deify Chow, but like, the conflation of not liking something and talking about why etc and telling other people they are wrong for liking that thing is something I bristle at.
As I've said elsewhere: if you feel invalidated as a person because someone does not like a thing you like, that is probably mostly on you. (I'm not talking about you Hahnsoo, it's a general "you", just to be clear)

Hahnsoo1

el_vicio wrote: »

Hahnsoo1 wrote: »

Sure, if you are asked, you are always free to respond honestly

I don't think that's how forums work, or dialogue and discussion in general. Anyway, I disagree with your perspective for the most part, but I've said that in another thread, I don't want to retread that ground. Obv I don't wade into places where people treat Obi-Wan as the second coming and deify Chow, but like, the conflation of not liking something and talking about why etc and telling other people they are wrong for liking that thing is something I bristle at.
As I've said elsewhere: if you feel invalidated as a person because someone does not like a thing you like, that is probably mostly on you. (I'm not talking about you Hahnsoo, it's a general "you", just to be clear)

I think that you touched on this issue and that we agree, but the problem is definitely people crowbarring their way into a conversation specifically to dunk on other people. The feeling that this person, who wasn’t a participant before in the conversation, went out of their way to dunk on something you like is what makes it feel bad, not the “feeling invalidated for liking a thing”. “I came here specifically to bully you and your friends” is not a great look. Again, I like how RatherDashing89 handled it, with an empathy to avoid such perceptions. And obviously, like you said, you don’t do that.

Lttlefoot

A photo of Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau writing the episodes of The Mandalorian, 1993

el_vicio

.

Hahnsoo1 wrote: »

el_vicio wrote: »

Hahnsoo1 wrote: »

Sure, if you are asked, you are always free to respond honestly

I don't think that's how forums work, or dialogue and discussion in general. Anyway, I disagree with your perspective for the most part, but I've said that in another thread, I don't want to retread that ground. Obv I don't wade into places where people treat Obi-Wan as the second coming and deify Chow, but like, the conflation of not liking something and talking about why etc and telling other people they are wrong for liking that thing is something I bristle at.
As I've said elsewhere: if you feel invalidated as a person because someone does not like a thing you like, that is probably mostly on you. (I'm not talking about you Hahnsoo, it's a general "you", just to be clear)

I think that you touched on this issue and that we agree, but the problem is definitely people crowbarring their way into a conversation specifically to dunk on other people. The feeling that this person, who wasn’t a participant before in the conversation, went out of their way to dunk on something you like is what makes it feel bad, not the “feeling invalidated for liking a thing”. “I came here specifically to bully you and your friends” is not a great look. Again, I like how RatherDashing89 handled it, with an empathy to avoid such perceptions. And obviously, like you said, you don’t do that.

Hmmm. Idk, I'm not sure I follow/ get what you are talking about exactly, but yeah sure, bullying people for sth they like is shitty

Darkewolfe

RatherDashing89 wrote: »

I've been conflicted because I want to share my thoughts about this show on forums or in Facebook, but while I'm happy to give a positive take on something most people are dragging, I don't want to be the guy yukking someone else's yum.

But man, I don't get the positive response to this show, particularly its ending. It had one great line with perfect delivery, and that was it. Episode 5 was the first hint that there might be some thematic throughline or intended point to the whole thing, and episode 6 didn't follow through on it at all. They brought back a beloved actor and a beloved character and proceeded to portray him in a completely different way, while not actually *doing* anything with his changed character or explaining how he returns to how he was in episode 4: prequel McGregor, as badly written as he was, still resembles ANH Guiness far more than McGregor resembles himself in these two depictions.

The other thing I really don't understand is how everyone lost their shit over TLJ Luke saying that the Jedi were kind of bad and dumb (which everyone had been saying anyway since the prequels) and yet no one seems to have a problem with Obi-Wan in this, which is a far worse fall in my opinion.

Thee thing that gives him the strength to defeat Vader is thinking of the kids. And then he stands up and goes Super Saiyan and throws rocks at Vader. So...he's channeling his passion for those he is attached to to gain the strength to enact violence, and yet the music and cinematography make it seem like this is his victory and his arc, despite it looking a whole lot like the Dark Side to me. And him not killing Vader doesn't count as reversing that because the show still treats his rock throwing as a triumph of his will despite it being extremely un-Jedi.

And I realize I am doing a very poor job of making my argument that I don't want to be the negative nancy, huh. Well, as long as I'm here, one more thing. I really don't typically care about plot holes, but I really wish that Star Wars would realize that if you are going to hang your stakes on a spatial relationship (such as a chase), you actually need to be willing to think about and use space rather than undermining distance entirely as a concept. You can't build tension around getting somewhere or being chased somewhere and still let your characters zip around the galaxy completely freely. Either have a big universe or a small one.

So. Vader broke off the chase of the rebel transport with his giant Star Destroyer so they could follow Obi-Wan instead. And then proceeds to deploy his personal shuttle to follow Obi-Wan...so why couldn't the big ship keep going after the transport? Then, when the show needs Obi-Wan to jump to Tatooine in no time at all to resolve the completely pointless plot there, he takes his dropship into hyperspeed! But the whole reason they couldn't escape was that the transport's hyperdrive was broken! (we'll put aside the notion that the transport was still trying to go somewhere with no hyperdrive, as if you can get anywhere in space at sublight). So, they couldn't have packed some more people onto his fairly sizeable dropship and have them escape?

Again, it's not about the fact that there is a plot hole. It's that they build the entire tension around not being able to do something, and then proceed to do it anyway because they need to jump the plot to another location. I can't be too hard on this show for this because Star Wars does this all the time, but it just gets to me because it keeps happening.

Honestly, I think part of the problem is that Star Wars is such a sprawling multiverse with inconsistent plot between various parts that it's going to break down somewhere for everyone. It's not loosey goosey enough to account for all the different multiverse shit that will be packed into it (unlike Marvel for example).

Armored Chocobo

How to make any Star Wars fan love Disney again:

Step 1) Have Ewan say "hello there"
Step 2) That's it.

el_vicio

Armored Chocobo wrote: »

How to make any Star Wars fan love Disney again:

Step 1) Have Ewan say "hello there"
Step 2) That's it.

It was cute, even though it was pandering af