From the first two episodes of Tales, I think it's safe to say I wish the whole show was about Dooku. I've had my fill of Ahsoka.
As much as I like Ahsoka as a character, I agree. Especially with what the first episode gave us. It's the bad side of Filoni's work, which is eye-rollingly bad.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the themes in Dooku's arc reflect those in Andor, specifically how the Republic was already corrupt and that the Jedi were largely complicit by turning a blind eye to the suffering of people outside the established structures of power out of convenience masquerading as wise restraint. And while the PT danced around it, to its detriment, it was refreshing to see it dealt with more directly here.
I was also disappointed that:
The Inquisitor in Ahsoka's last episode was dealt with so quickly. He had an interesting look, and was voiced by Clancy Brown, who definitely has the chops to do something interesting with an evil character. He had the potential to be a recurring character and they utterly squandered it.
Regarding Ahsoka herself:
She's so much more interesting when she's used as a counterpoint to both the end of the Republic Jedi and Anakin himself. Simply being a super magical girl as an infant is just... blah.
From the first two episodes of Tales, I think it's safe to say I wish the whole show was about Dooku. I've had my fill of Ahsoka.
You really get the feeling that he fell because was sick and tired of the Jedi Order bullshit. The assignment to retrieve the Jedi Masters body for example. To just fetch the body and go home, with no clue as to if and when somebody would actually investigate her murder. A simple "we will have somebody investigate it separately without drawing attention to themselves" would have avoided all trouble in that episode. There is trust the Force and the Council and then there is blind obedience.
Also Mace Windu is a kiss-ass and should not have gotten the council seat.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Honestly I thought the Dooku stuff could have been done better too. Dooku is weird because he is the one character who is better in the prequels (where he didn't get developed much, but they at least presented the idea of a political idealist whose political views conflicted with the supposedly apolitical Jedi Order, as well as being a gentleman who considered Obiwan a friend) than in the Clone Wars (where he was the mustache twirling villain).
Showing his fall could have involved him realizing the Republic did not support the interests of the many planets and people groups it was supposed to represent, and that the Jedi Order was more concerned with maintaining its political position in the name of religious neutrality than it was in actually changing anything.
Instead we got the same "we're not going far enough to punish evil! We need to be harsher on bad guys and just do what we know to be right regardless of the consequences!" Sort of like the 80s "loose cannon" cop who is frustrated that he he can't just kill bad guys on the spot, and that so many bad guys apparently go free because of bureaucracy like trials and juries.
Even Bariss had a better fallen Jedi arc, and she literally turned on a red lightsaber as soon as they found out she was the baddie. At least her story, undercooked as it was, promoted the idea that it doesn't matter how good your intentions are, if you turn to the Dark Side for power, you are eventually going to become a maniacal madman (and don't come at me with that Grey Jedi nonsense...)
Even Bariss had a better fallen Jedi arc, and she literally turned on a red lightsaber as soon as they found out she was the baddie. At least her story, undercooked as it was, promoted the idea that it doesn't matter how good your intentions are, if you turn to the Dark Side for power, you are eventually going to become a maniacal madman (and don't come at me with that Grey Jedi nonsense...)
Barriss got done so dirty. The Clone Wars needed 80% less cutesy droid arcs and to use that space fleshing out Barriss and Ahsoka individually representing two sides of Jedi philosophy who are ultimately both failed by the Order in different ways.
Plus I heard her arc got resolved in a novel, which is exceptionally annoying to me, since that's not how I consume Star Wars.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Ahsoka has gotten an annoying amount of attention because of Filoni but generally in a timeframe I don't care about so most of that is kinda of a wash. The time she had in episodes with the Mandalorian were pretty great, so I could definitely do with more of that.
But mostly, if they use her character as a vessel skip past the philosophical absurdity of the black-and-white Jedi view and open the setting to some subtlety on that front, she'll probably end up one of my favorite characters. She's got the backstory for it and whereas the ST was perfectly positioned to open up Force-oriented philosophy and utterly failed, so is Ahsoka well-positioned as a character to achieve that end. I could even see that being how they open up the future of the setting beyond the total dead fucking end that is the ST; have Rey and Ahsoka figure out a new future for Force users in general, rather than reverting to the Jedi ways. It should have been something Luke was working towards as well, but obviously that option is trashed.
I just really really fucking hope they don't "redeem" her back to a Jedi because honestly, she was always too good for the Jedi Order anyway and that would be an awful step back for the character. Just the fact that she's as skillful as any Jedi but neither Jedi or Sith already makes her more interesting than like 99% of the characters on either side of that line.
My fanwank for Ahsoka is that she goes down the “Force is spooky mystical stuff that the Jedi/Sith barely scratched the surface of” path in her series.
As much maligned as the ST is, there are bits in it that hint at this, intentionally or not. Rey seeking out Ahsoka and going from there would be interesting. But I liked Rey as a character warts and all so *shrug*
You go in the cage, cage goes in the water, you go in the water. Shark's in the water, our shark.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I have a feeling we're not seeing anyone from the ST ever again.
And said the that scene at the end was pointless, until I explained the link to the earlier episodes.
They now see the point of the scene.
I have also subsequently discovered the director of the series has directly stated this show's point was to get from A->B on what happened in Rogue One and that the series is related to that. So it's not out of line and the second season is going more towards setting up the events of Rogue One - while still exploring how the rebellion comes to be.
Give it twenty years and you'll be getting people who grew up with the ST going "No wait, they're actually good."
I'm going to so be telling you guys "I told you so" as I slide into my 60's.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I can see your point there, like I remember hating the PT but now I'm at peace with it. Mostly because a lot of other stuff came out that entirely redeemed it like the Clone Wars show (once it got past the first couple of seasons), various miniatures games that leveraged that part of the IP well and so forth. In my own Star Wars game I ran the main villain was an exiled Jedi who still cruised around in her Venator class star destroyer being an A+ dick in the name of JUSTICE! The ST I can't think of a single thing I find redeeming or compelling about it beyond one really gorgeous shot in the second movie. At least it will always have that one shot.
I can see your point there, like I remember hating the PT but now I'm at peace with it. Mostly because a lot of other stuff came out that entirely redeemed it like the Clone Wars show (once it got past the first couple of seasons), various miniatures games that leveraged that part of the IP well and so forth.
On the other hand I'm not looking forward to a time where we're introducing future people to Star Wars with the caveat that in order to 'properly' enjoy the core movies they also have to watch "a lot of other stuff" first.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I keep hearing the whole "ST won't seem that bad in twenty years, just like the PT!"
And the fact is that PT still sucks and I've never warmed to it in the slightest, the ST just sucks a fuckload worse. Neither of them is a good trilogy, the PT simply manages some coherence and has had a lot of Filoni therapy.
Your mistaking statements about popular consensus with your own opinions.
I'll always think the PT sucks; but kids who grew up on it just thought they were a cool movies, and as adults their nostalgia carries them through.
It's similar to how I love the '86 transformers movie.
It's a complete dogshit of a movie that's only memorable because they callously murdered a bunch of characters on screen in a film that was a follow up to a kids cartoon. (Well, that and a kickass 80's as fuck soundtrack) but because I've been watching that movie for literally as long as I remember, I'm immunized to the stupid and can extract enjoyment from my nostalgia over the cool parts.
Kids today aren't going to give a shit about how lame Rey's origins are, or how stupid the multiple death fakeouts are. They're not going to be thinking about how the sequel trilogy movies are tonally inconsistent, if not outright hostile to one another. We don't really talk about Carrie Fisher's drug problem or how she was treated on set, and kids today aren't going to be chattering about how terrible Kelly Marie Tran was treated after Last Jedi. That won't be what they remember from these films. They'll remember the cool fights and big space battles and BB8 and the porgs and the luuuurve story between Rey and Kylo. They'll giggle over the "They can fly now?" and "Everything you just said is wrong." while you and I will still be stewing about how none of the films have lived up to the original trilogy.
No, but my problems with the PT pale against my problems with TRoS.
It's like how George W. Bush's presidency wasn't anything less than disastrous or that he isn't a vile person who should be tried at the Hague, but when he shows up, there's almost a relief that it's not Donald J.Trump spewing verbal diarrhea. As bad as the old stuff is, the new shit is that much worse.
In comparison to TRoS, the prequels were merely bad movies with some interesting whizzes and bangs. They didn't kick over my childhood and pee on it. The PT for the most part followed through on its narrative arcs to conclusions (not satisfying, but conclusions nonetheless) while the sequels resulted in a lot of interesting arcs that went nowhere in ways that directly insulted my intelligence.
I keep hearing the whole "ST won't seem that bad in twenty years, just like the PT!"
And the fact is that PT still sucks and I've never warmed to it in the slightest, the ST just sucks a fuckload worse. Neither of them is a good trilogy, the PT simply manages some coherence and has had a lot of Filoni therapy.
The ST being awful didn't make the PT better.
Both PT and ST will always suck but in 20 years you'll be able to get away with writing clickbait articles asserting the ST is great, the only thing time allows is that argument bait bad faith opinions don't get laughed out of the room immediately.
That would require disney to spend the time and energy to try to flesh out the ST era, which thus far they haven't really been bothering with. They have... Resistance, which was a flop. And I guess the framing device for a handful of non-canon LEGO anthologies?
Whereas Lucasarts was all in on the brand synergy for the PT. There were a ton of games, and even before the filloni series, they were trying to make the clone wars happen
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
The Sith Lord was fantastic, probably the best episode of anything Clone Wars-ish I've ever seen.
And of course that was McDiarmid, no one could impersonate that voice. Impressed Neeson came back, too.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I keep hearing the whole "ST won't seem that bad in twenty years, just like the PT!"
And the fact is that PT still sucks and I've never warmed to it in the slightest, the ST just sucks a fuckload worse. Neither of them is a good trilogy, the PT simply manages some coherence and has had a lot of Filoni therapy.
The ST being awful didn't make the PT better.
I agree with all of this except the bit about the ST being worse
In almost every objective measure (and most subjective measures) it’s miles and miles better. It just has an extremely incoherent story.
Better or worse just comes down whatever side of the divide you fall on. Do you prefer the rancid hamburger with rotting meat? Or the 24k gold hamburger with diamond sesame seeds? You can’t eat either one.
But do children even like the ST? The whole thing with the PT being seen fondly is the fact that "kids like/watch anything" and those were big movie drops when they were kids.
With the nature of Mandalorian, Rogue One, Andor, and the cartoons, I think those might see the focus instead? Then again, I dont think anyone would mind if they made clone wars-like shows in the sequel trilogy setting.
Everything goes in cycles, I'm sure weill hit a nostolgia wave right as we hit a remake wave, and maybe they remake or scratch the ST instead. Like full "There's only Terminator 1 and 2 before Dark Fate" kinda way. Full conspiracy: Disney vault means ST could just drop off the face of the earth almost if they wanted to replace it with new canon.
I can see your point there, like I remember hating the PT but now I'm at peace with it. Mostly because a lot of other stuff came out that entirely redeemed it like the Clone Wars show (once it got past the first couple of seasons), various miniatures games that leveraged that part of the IP well and so forth. In my own Star Wars game I ran the main villain was an exiled Jedi who still cruised around in her Venator class star destroyer being an A+ dick in the name of JUSTICE! The ST I can't think of a single thing I find redeeming or compelling about it beyond one really gorgeous shot in the second movie. At least it will always have that one shot.
Honestly I think that one shot is basically the entire problem with the Sequel Trilogy in one scene. It's a big expensive CGI shot that looks visually impressive, but in theater I just remember thinking "oh, this doesn't belong in this movie at all..."
It's the cinematic equivalent of someone in D&D saying "so you know how I have control water and our bodies are made of like 70% water..."
The problem with the ST is that it's already a remake wave, made by someone who didn't really understand the message behind the OT, just the surface level aesthetics
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
There aren’t any children who like the PT. There are 25 year olds who liked the PT when it came out.
In twenty years, well see new 25 year olds bitch about whatever horrible trilogy we have at that point.
Ahsoka is to Dave Filoni as Harley Quinn was/is to Paul Dini.
Mispelled Zatanna.
No, I didn't.
Dini definitely has a thing for her too (and yes, I know about the RL angle), but he didn't create the character; he did do that with Harley, and IMO has shown similar protectiveness/reluctance to let go of her (compare Filoni's rescue of Ahsoka via time portal to Dini's insistence on Harley turning up at the end of Return of the Joker, having survived her fall, to bail out her granddaughters).
Commander Zoom on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Not really, both of those shows are much much closer to the OT, both in the timeline and in style. Andor is five years before Rogue One and that's like a week before the Battle of Yavin. The Mandalorian starts maybe 2-3 years out from the OT, so some 20+ years ahead of the shitty ST in the timeline.
So no way would I give either of the other trilogies any credit or connection to those actually good shows.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Not really, both of those shows are much much closer to the OT, both in the timeline and in style. Andor is five years before Rogue One and that's like a week before the Battle of Yavin. The Mandalorian starts maybe 2-3 years out from the OT, so some 20+ years ahead of the shitty ST in the timeline.
So no way would I give either of the other trilogies any credit or connection to those actually good shows.
Pretty sure they meant just ignore the PT and ST and have Andor/Rogue One as your prequels and The Mandalorian as your sequels.
If the Sequel Trilogy gets looked back more fondly in the future, I imagine it will be something similar to the Prequel Trilogy, the base concepts were neat, but the script really didn't live up to it. For the PT the concept of the slow decent of a democratic republic into fascism is great, especially mirrored with the slow fall of a noble Jedi Knight into becoming a Sith Lord. Unfortunately Lucas just wasn't up to writing either of those concepts very well, although we've had other writers take a crack at it over the years and fleshed the concept out somewhat.
For the ST, the resurgence of neo-fascism mirrored by a young man being told to give into his hatred and being rewarded for his violent outbursts is hugely relevant today. Unfortunately Disney didn't want Star Wars to be political, so we get a confusing mess of backstory that's never covered in the movies themselves. We get no real explanation as to how the good guys are just a small rag tag group while the bad guys are building planet sized superweapons again.
I keep hearing the whole "ST won't seem that bad in twenty years, just like the PT!"
And the fact is that PT still sucks and I've never warmed to it in the slightest, the ST just sucks a fuckload worse. Neither of them is a good trilogy, the PT simply manages some coherence and has had a lot of Filoni therapy.
The ST being awful didn't make the PT better.
I agree with all of this except the bit about the ST being worse
In almost every objective measure (and most subjective measures) it’s miles and miles better. It just has an extremely incoherent story.
Better or worse just comes down whatever side of the divide you fall on. Do you prefer the rancid hamburger with rotting meat? Or the 24k gold hamburger with diamond sesame seeds? You can’t eat either one.
I feel like "it just has an extremely incoherent story," is kind of a much bigger deal than the phrasing implies.
I keep hearing the whole "ST won't seem that bad in twenty years, just like the PT!"
And the fact is that PT still sucks and I've never warmed to it in the slightest, the ST just sucks a fuckload worse. Neither of them is a good trilogy, the PT simply manages some coherence and has had a lot of Filoni therapy.
The ST being awful didn't make the PT better.
I agree with all of this except the bit about the ST being worse
In almost every objective measure (and most subjective measures) it’s miles and miles better. It just has an extremely incoherent story.
Better or worse just comes down whatever side of the divide you fall on. Do you prefer the rancid hamburger with rotting meat? Or the 24k gold hamburger with diamond sesame seeds? You can’t eat either one.
I feel like "it just has an extremely incoherent story," is kind of a much bigger deal than the phrasing implies.
I still say that between the gate figure between TLJ and RoS, TFAs shoddy lack of foundation and lack of any real message is criminally underappreciated
Spoit on
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Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
Say what you will about the PT’s production values and direction, at least I get some ideas to chew on from all that. The ST gave me nothing, it’s just a jumbled mess of effects. Those diamond sesame seeds are worthless to me.
Posts
As much as I like Ahsoka as a character, I agree. Especially with what the first episode gave us. It's the bad side of Filoni's work, which is eye-rollingly bad.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the themes in Dooku's arc reflect those in Andor, specifically how the Republic was already corrupt and that the Jedi were largely complicit by turning a blind eye to the suffering of people outside the established structures of power out of convenience masquerading as wise restraint. And while the PT danced around it, to its detriment, it was refreshing to see it dealt with more directly here.
I was also disappointed that:
Regarding Ahsoka herself:
You really get the feeling that he fell because was sick and tired of the Jedi Order bullshit. The assignment to retrieve the Jedi Masters body for example. To just fetch the body and go home, with no clue as to if and when somebody would actually investigate her murder. A simple "we will have somebody investigate it separately without drawing attention to themselves" would have avoided all trouble in that episode. There is trust the Force and the Council and then there is blind obedience.
Also Mace Windu is a kiss-ass and should not have gotten the council seat.
Honestly, I didn't really get past that and ended up not watching the Tales series. Maybe I'll skip the Ahsoka episodes and look at the Dooku stuff.
Ahsoka is to Dave Filoni as Harley Quinn was/is to Paul Dini.
Showing his fall could have involved him realizing the Republic did not support the interests of the many planets and people groups it was supposed to represent, and that the Jedi Order was more concerned with maintaining its political position in the name of religious neutrality than it was in actually changing anything.
Instead we got the same "we're not going far enough to punish evil! We need to be harsher on bad guys and just do what we know to be right regardless of the consequences!" Sort of like the 80s "loose cannon" cop who is frustrated that he he can't just kill bad guys on the spot, and that so many bad guys apparently go free because of bureaucracy like trials and juries.
Even Bariss had a better fallen Jedi arc, and she literally turned on a red lightsaber as soon as they found out she was the baddie. At least her story, undercooked as it was, promoted the idea that it doesn't matter how good your intentions are, if you turn to the Dark Side for power, you are eventually going to become a maniacal madman (and don't come at me with that Grey Jedi nonsense...)
Barriss got done so dirty. The Clone Wars needed 80% less cutesy droid arcs and to use that space fleshing out Barriss and Ahsoka individually representing two sides of Jedi philosophy who are ultimately both failed by the Order in different ways.
Plus I heard her arc got resolved in a novel, which is exceptionally annoying to me, since that's not how I consume Star Wars.
But mostly, if they use her character as a vessel skip past the philosophical absurdity of the black-and-white Jedi view and open the setting to some subtlety on that front, she'll probably end up one of my favorite characters. She's got the backstory for it and whereas the ST was perfectly positioned to open up Force-oriented philosophy and utterly failed, so is Ahsoka well-positioned as a character to achieve that end. I could even see that being how they open up the future of the setting beyond the total dead fucking end that is the ST; have Rey and Ahsoka figure out a new future for Force users in general, rather than reverting to the Jedi ways. It should have been something Luke was working towards as well, but obviously that option is trashed.
I just really really fucking hope they don't "redeem" her back to a Jedi because honestly, she was always too good for the Jedi Order anyway and that would be an awful step back for the character. Just the fact that she's as skillful as any Jedi but neither Jedi or Sith already makes her more interesting than like 99% of the characters on either side of that line.
As much maligned as the ST is, there are bits in it that hint at this, intentionally or not. Rey seeking out Ahsoka and going from there would be interesting. But I liked Rey as a character warts and all so *shrug*
Which is a shame. The characters are good. It’s not their fault JJ took a steaming dump on them.
And said the that scene at the end was pointless, until I explained the link to the earlier episodes.
They now see the point of the scene.
Well and Disney and a bunch of other things. There were a lot of systemic failures that impeded these actors from getting their best.
What's worst is the complete wasting of the time we had with certain legacy characters where we could meaningfully have ended their stories.
Everything was just a waste and it's no wonder Disney are avoiding everything ST like the plague.
I have also subsequently discovered the director of the series has directly stated this show's point was to get from A->B on what happened in Rogue One and that the series is related to that. So it's not out of line and the second season is going more towards setting up the events of Rogue One - while still exploring how the rebellion comes to be.
I'm going to so be telling you guys "I told you so" as I slide into my 60's.
On the other hand I'm not looking forward to a time where we're introducing future people to Star Wars with the caveat that in order to 'properly' enjoy the core movies they also have to watch "a lot of other stuff" first.
And the fact is that PT still sucks and I've never warmed to it in the slightest, the ST just sucks a fuckload worse. Neither of them is a good trilogy, the PT simply manages some coherence and has had a lot of Filoni therapy.
The ST being awful didn't make the PT better.
I'll always think the PT sucks; but kids who grew up on it just thought they were a cool movies, and as adults their nostalgia carries them through.
It's similar to how I love the '86 transformers movie.
It's a complete dogshit of a movie that's only memorable because they callously murdered a bunch of characters on screen in a film that was a follow up to a kids cartoon. (Well, that and a kickass 80's as fuck soundtrack) but because I've been watching that movie for literally as long as I remember, I'm immunized to the stupid and can extract enjoyment from my nostalgia over the cool parts.
Kids today aren't going to give a shit about how lame Rey's origins are, or how stupid the multiple death fakeouts are. They're not going to be thinking about how the sequel trilogy movies are tonally inconsistent, if not outright hostile to one another. We don't really talk about Carrie Fisher's drug problem or how she was treated on set, and kids today aren't going to be chattering about how terrible Kelly Marie Tran was treated after Last Jedi. That won't be what they remember from these films. They'll remember the cool fights and big space battles and BB8 and the porgs and the luuuurve story between Rey and Kylo. They'll giggle over the "They can fly now?" and "Everything you just said is wrong." while you and I will still be stewing about how none of the films have lived up to the original trilogy.
Basically
No, but my problems with the PT pale against my problems with TRoS.
It's like how George W. Bush's presidency wasn't anything less than disastrous or that he isn't a vile person who should be tried at the Hague, but when he shows up, there's almost a relief that it's not Donald J.Trump spewing verbal diarrhea. As bad as the old stuff is, the new shit is that much worse.
In comparison to TRoS, the prequels were merely bad movies with some interesting whizzes and bangs. They didn't kick over my childhood and pee on it. The PT for the most part followed through on its narrative arcs to conclusions (not satisfying, but conclusions nonetheless) while the sequels resulted in a lot of interesting arcs that went nowhere in ways that directly insulted my intelligence.
Both PT and ST will always suck but in 20 years you'll be able to get away with writing clickbait articles asserting the ST is great, the only thing time allows is that argument bait bad faith opinions don't get laughed out of the room immediately.
Andor is the PT and Mando is the ST
Whereas Lucasarts was all in on the brand synergy for the PT. There were a ton of games, and even before the filloni series, they were trying to make the clone wars happen
I agree with all of this except the bit about the ST being worse
In almost every objective measure (and most subjective measures) it’s miles and miles better. It just has an extremely incoherent story.
Better or worse just comes down whatever side of the divide you fall on. Do you prefer the rancid hamburger with rotting meat? Or the 24k gold hamburger with diamond sesame seeds? You can’t eat either one.
With the nature of Mandalorian, Rogue One, Andor, and the cartoons, I think those might see the focus instead? Then again, I dont think anyone would mind if they made clone wars-like shows in the sequel trilogy setting.
Everything goes in cycles, I'm sure weill hit a nostolgia wave right as we hit a remake wave, and maybe they remake or scratch the ST instead. Like full "There's only Terminator 1 and 2 before Dark Fate" kinda way. Full conspiracy: Disney vault means ST could just drop off the face of the earth almost if they wanted to replace it with new canon.
Honestly I think that one shot is basically the entire problem with the Sequel Trilogy in one scene. It's a big expensive CGI shot that looks visually impressive, but in theater I just remember thinking "oh, this doesn't belong in this movie at all..."
It's the cinematic equivalent of someone in D&D saying "so you know how I have control water and our bodies are made of like 70% water..."
In twenty years, well see new 25 year olds bitch about whatever horrible trilogy we have at that point.
Mispelled Zatanna.
No, I didn't.
Dini definitely has a thing for her too (and yes, I know about the RL angle), but he didn't create the character; he did do that with Harley, and IMO has shown similar protectiveness/reluctance to let go of her (compare Filoni's rescue of Ahsoka via time portal to Dini's insistence on Harley turning up at the end of Return of the Joker, having survived her fall, to bail out her granddaughters).
Not really, both of those shows are much much closer to the OT, both in the timeline and in style. Andor is five years before Rogue One and that's like a week before the Battle of Yavin. The Mandalorian starts maybe 2-3 years out from the OT, so some 20+ years ahead of the shitty ST in the timeline.
So no way would I give either of the other trilogies any credit or connection to those actually good shows.
Pretty sure they meant just ignore the PT and ST and have Andor/Rogue One as your prequels and The Mandalorian as your sequels.
For the ST, the resurgence of neo-fascism mirrored by a young man being told to give into his hatred and being rewarded for his violent outbursts is hugely relevant today. Unfortunately Disney didn't want Star Wars to be political, so we get a confusing mess of backstory that's never covered in the movies themselves. We get no real explanation as to how the good guys are just a small rag tag group while the bad guys are building planet sized superweapons again.
That's not true! That's impossible!
I feel like "it just has an extremely incoherent story," is kind of a much bigger deal than the phrasing implies.
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2022/11/28/the-next-twenty-four
I still say that between the gate figure between TLJ and RoS, TFAs shoddy lack of foundation and lack of any real message is criminally underappreciated