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Penny Arcade - Comic - Darkness

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Darkness!

Penny Arcade - Comic - Darkness

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Thanks to the podcasts I know exactly how Jerry sounded when dictating the second panel

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    "With Reddit mostly gone" . . . ?

    I'm not a redditor, but is this implying that site is dying? Have people moved on to something else? Something that perhaps doesn't have a total shit interface? I honestly can't ever understand how Reddit caught on to begin with. The site's design is terrible.

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    MercadeMercade Registered User regular
    Reddit is clamping down on third-party apps using their API, effectively killing off some popular apps. In response, a lot of subreddits went dark for the last couple days in protest. Reddit isn’t dying, though - mainly because of a lack of a better alternative.

    Switch: SW-1909-0466-9585
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    "With Reddit mostly gone" . . . ?

    I'm not a redditor, but is this implying that site is dying? Have people moved on to something else? Something that perhaps doesn't have a total shit interface? I honestly can't ever understand how Reddit caught on to begin with. The site's design is terrible.

    It references that most subs went dark for the past few days to protest a few changes in how Reddit is running the site and API.

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    BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    By clamping down and changes, people mean they slapped on a $20 million annual fee, yes. An enormous number of subreddits, including several of the most popular front page ones, went private in protest.

    Reddit has since backed down and said they'll allow programs intended for moderation to continue, which was the biggest source of objection, so things might calm down or they might not.

    Bremen on
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Yeah I'm not a redditor but the scuttlebutt I heard was that the API fees they were proposing were far beyond reasonable. Like many of the 3rd party so people were willing to pay but it was like 20x what anybody expected.

    Also a side affect of so many subs going private was that it apparently caused problems with the app loading anything.

    steam_sig.png
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    OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    My assumption is Reddit is playing API users like a fiddle to inflate their revenue via making an absolutely absurd initial demand, then making a second offer that is construed as an "improvement/compromise", but would have normally also have been rejected out of hand had it been the initial offer instead.

    Then again, I could just be incredibly cynical.

    Overkillengine on
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    MercadeMercade Registered User regular
    I didn’t realize just how time I spent on reddit at work. Most subs I look at are down and I’ve got nothing to do. I guess I’ll go for a walk or something.

    Switch: SW-1909-0466-9585
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    palidine40palidine40 Registered User regular

    Then again, I could just be incredibly cynical.

    Negative, you are not cynical. I repeat, Red Leader, you are Not cynical. You are on the nose, fire all tubes.

    Posturing is an excuse a lot of people use for maniacs like Baylon Tusk, or Taynald Rump, to claim they're intelligent, when they're just swinging their d-wolves around trying to make the world adjust for Contrast on their philosophical view tubes so that the Epstein's don't look "that bad". But this commander dork of this company reddit is starting to jump on the stupid rich 1984 train (right over a shark) that Tycho's talking about, and reddit has been playing a lawful-neutral demeanor for so long that they had some clout levels to spend and permanently lose on this raise dead, but we know their nature, we'll find out how many willpower points they can spend.

    I hope they get knocked to level 1 and lose their last CON point from this if this is how he's going to treat his audience though. A business can't live off of destroying it's free work force. Their ad revenue must be insane, its like tribbles up in that b lately.

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    ArmsForPeace84ArmsForPeace84 Your Partner In Freedom Registered User regular
    Looks like he was talking to Rusty Nails. Don't ask him about his handle. You don't wanna know what Rusty nails.

    Nothing personal. It's just business.
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    MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    Bremen wrote: »
    By clamping down and changes, people mean they slapped on a $20 million annual fee, yes. An enormous number of subreddits, including several of the most popular front page ones, went private in protest.

    Reddit has since backed down and said they'll allow programs intended for moderation to continue, which was the biggest source of objection, so things might calm down or they might not.

    To be fair, it appears this $20 million figure that I've seen tossed around in several places is specifically what it was estimated to cost the Apollo app to stay up and running for a year. I've never heard of it, but apparently it's considered to be the most popular Reddit app on iOS. So, it's not like everyone is getting a bill for $20 million to use Reddit's API.

    "It's just as I've always said. We are being digested by an amoral universe."

    -Tycho Brahe
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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    No, but Reddit are asking 20-30x more per access than other platforms. That's not "we want to make some money from all these API calls" pricing. That's "get the fuck off our platform" charging.

    If someone builds a bridge and charges a 10 dollar toll to cross it, well that's a bit of an oof but yeah, ok, they have costs to cover.

    If they charge 300 dollars, they just don't really want people walking over it. What Louis Rossman called "Fuck You pricing".

    Reddit is solely concerned with making people use their app so they can ram advertising into your field of view.

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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    Reddit is solely concerned with making people use their app so they can ram advertising into your field of view.

    I'm trying to decide if the best response to something like this is:

    YouDontSay.gif
    ETradeBabyShockedFace.gif
    or
    SurprisedPikachu.gif



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    OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    V1m wrote: »

    Reddit is solely concerned with making people use their app so they can ram advertising into your field of view.

    One of the many reasons I refuse to install site specific apps for any sort of online browsing beyond a generic web browser that allows me to install things like uBlock. And no, I will not disable it, dear site owner, unless you sign liability paperwork that assumes responsibility for any damage your third party ads do to my computer, which have been abused as an attack vector before. No, I will not install your data harvesting tool that opens another hole in my security either.

    No, I don't care that you have taken a digital pill and that it should be safe to go raw. The computer condom stays on.


    On a lighter note:
    Two things: one, CB stands for Citizen's Band. That's really beautiful in a way. And second, if a bunch of your favorite subreddits go down, Ham Radio is not an effective substitute.


    I guess that *really* depends on what your favorite subreddits are. 🤨

    Overkillengine on
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    palidine40palidine40 Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    unless you sign liability paperwork that assumes responsibility for any damage your third party ads do to my computer, which have been abused as an attack vector before.

    Even many tech savvy people I speak to don't understand this. There are MANY MANY sites that host ads locally on their servers OR THEIR DOMAIN so that the ads bypass almost every ad blocker; bypasses all ad blockers except for the ones that block All pictures, which turns all sites into just words, which is fine to some if thats what they want.

    I'm not against ads. I'm not 100% against capitalism (just against 100% capitalism, as no country in the world has that). I'm against the attack and distraction vectors. I can't read a site and will leave it if a video is playing in my face (or even just off to the side) when i'm trying to read something. I just can't read at that point.

    As for attacks, if the files for the pictures/videos for the ads aren't secure enough to put on YOUR server (or domain), then why would I trust YOU to put them onto MY pc. WTH, man. So many viruses, phishes, and lies.

    The ads someone sells on their site, they just dont want to have to think about it... but then they're a victim of their own laziness too at that point and are just the hilt to the sword hurting their consumers.

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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Yeah this is going to go real bad

    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-protest-blackout-ceo-steve-huffman-moderators-rcna89544

    I hope I can catch the window between that asshole removing moderators (that is my read on his quotes) / reopening the subs and everything being nuked so that I can still copy my saved posts into text documents.

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    I think it kinda sucks that a handful of people (many of whom are hugely self important tbh) can just unilaterally shut down a large subreddit; I get that people don't like that their favorite reader app isn't going to be available anymore but idk, get off the platform then if you wanna

    this move is absolutely about reddit pushing their own app, but I mean, if they wanna keep operating the site they do need to make money

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    That's not really how it went down, many subs put it to the vote, and the patterns were very clear

    which is funny because that dick is spinning the protest as "not democratic"

    see also: his AmA which backfired

    el_vicio on
    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    I mean, it was how it went down on some subs I read; I also don't really agree that either side has any claim to 'democracy', for whatever value that even has in this context

    and while he was remarkably tone deaf in his ama he fundamentally just said 'look the site needs to make money and this is a way we can do it'

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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    palidine40palidine40 Registered User regular
    I mean, it was how it went down on some subs I read; I also don't really agree that either side has any claim to 'democracy', for whatever value that even has in this context

    and while he was remarkably tone deaf in his ama he fundamentally just said 'look the site needs to make money and this is a way we can do it'

    "I" don't like this false "needs to make money" argument. The sites been up for decades, the ads are increasing Right Now even in the recent years. If it weren't "making money" then, surprise, it wouldn't have been up that whole time. It costs money to pay devs, rent domain "ownership", pay off cdn's, pay off ISP's, pay power bills, to rent or own data center space. It's a straw man, they've been making money for decades, he's just pulling political BS to tow the line with the other Richie Rich's who haven't learned the lesson that the world started with a buildup to millions of farmers/gatherers, not millions of billionaires.

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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Agreed. Just going "oh hey we'll kill the API unless you pay 20mil (lol?)" is not an attempt at finding solutions. Internal memos and messages to mods since then have only gone to underline his shithead mentality. Throwing those mods, btw, that poured hundreds, thousands of hours into moderation and cultivating communities, is imo another piece of evidence that he does not understand what makes reddit work.

    I think the current sticky on r/askhistorians sums it all up well

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

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    BremenBremen Registered User regular
    Letting members vote out moderators isn't a bad change, but it's a bad fix for the current situation.

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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Letting users vote for mods will lead to a nightmare site, 100%. That aside, no doubt in my mind that it's not the users, but Huffman who wants the "landed gentry" removed. The whole "democracy, the users want it" spiel is firmly in the Musk/Trump camp imo

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Letting users vote for mods will lead to a nightmare site, 100%.

    It's like Boaty McBoatFace, except Dicky McDickface, the alt-right troll now gets to moderate the LGBT+ subreddit because of course that's exactly the sort of social engineering trolls on Reddit are great at.

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Letting users vote for mods will lead to a nightmare site, 100%. That aside, no doubt in my mind that it's not the users, but Huffman who wants the "landed gentry" removed. The whole "democracy, the users want it" spiel is firmly in the Musk/Trump camp imo

    The people with the strongest opinions about moderators are nearly always exactly the people who make moderation necessary. People who don't get modded don't think much about moderators.

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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Welp, Hoffman came out and straight up said he thinks Musk is a cool guy who does good things with Twitter, and that's an inspiration. Not that it wasn't obvious where this is all coming from, but there you go.

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Welp, Hoffman came out and straight up said he thinks Musk is a cool guy who does good things with Twitter, and that's an inspiration. Not that it wasn't obvious where this is all coming from, but there you go.

    "I too aim to emulate the actions that have cost Musk's shareholders at least $20B. So far. Please subscribe to the Reddit IPO!"

    These people are knowingly fucking with us, aren't they? This is like those shitheads than burn £20 notes in front of homeless people, except with million pound notes instead.

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    DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Yeah I'm not a redditor but the scuttlebutt I heard was that the API fees they were proposing were far beyond reasonable. Like many of the 3rd party so people were willing to pay but it was like 20x what anybody expected.

    Also a side affect of so many subs going private was that it apparently caused problems with the app loading anything.

    As someone who occasionally works with APIs for a living, I can tell you the fees were so beyond the industry standards that honestly the only thing I can assume is that the idea was to make nobody actually *use* the API so people would have to use the proprietary Reddit app. Because what in the *fuck* is that price structure.

    Drascin on
    Steam ID: Right here.
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    palidine40palidine40 Registered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Letting users vote for mods will lead to a nightmare site, 100%. That aside, no doubt in my mind that it's not the users, but Huffman who wants the "landed gentry" removed. The whole "democracy, the users want it" spiel is firmly in the Musk/Trump camp imo

    Does that mean we can vote the ceo out?

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    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    palidine40 wrote: »
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Letting users vote for mods will lead to a nightmare site, 100%. That aside, no doubt in my mind that it's not the users, but Huffman who wants the "landed gentry" removed. The whole "democracy, the users want it" spiel is firmly in the Musk/Trump camp imo

    Does that mean we can vote the ceo out?

    Only if he makes a poll.

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    palidine40palidine40 Registered User regular
    <3

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