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Penny Arcade - Comic - Epic Fail, Etc.

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin

Epic Fail, Etc.!

Penny Arcade - Comic - Epic Fail, Etc.

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    That's a pretty big oof, yes.

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    palidine40palidine40 Registered User regular
    Yeah, thats what it looks like all the time after those, to the people it happens to.

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    StarDrifterStarDrifter Registered User regular
    People seem surprised when they hear that I want to leave the entire tech industry behind. I'll bookmark this comic as more evidence of why.

    I used to remember Epic Megagames for ZZT-OOP. Now I will remember them for putting Bandcamp on a road to ruin and embracing everything wrong with the industry.

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    LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    If your productivity is equal to your salary, no one can make money by firing you. Maybe Tycho thinks I'm the devil (news post). Also is Eminem still the most in demand celeb?

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Like I can understand the booking probably happened well before the firings. But like as a none asshole who didn't have thousands of people fired while I live a life of excess I don't have to cut him slack. So fuck Sweeney.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    If your productivity is equal to your salary, no one can make money by firing you. Maybe Tycho thinks I'm the devil (news post). Also is Eminem still the most in demand celeb?

    If firing you gets me a fat bonus this quarter it doesn't matter if I've lost your productivity next quarter. Cash in hand means more than you, the consumers, or the company itself. Good will doesn't pay my lifestyle

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
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    RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    If your productivity is equal to your salary, no one can make money by firing you. Maybe Tycho thinks I'm the devil (news post). Also is Eminem still the most in demand celeb?

    Turns out people making firing decisions don't always make it fully informed, with long-term goals in mind! Turns out most corporate systems incentivize short term gains and are very bad at measuring productivity anyway.

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    LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    Fair, I guess publicly traded companies can have that incentive problem. Whereas in a private company where the executives are the shareholders, they can’t separate company gain and personal gain

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    Anon von ZilchAnon von Zilch Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    If your productivity is equal to your salary, no one can make money by firing you. Maybe Tycho thinks I'm the devil (news post). Also is Eminem still the most in demand celeb?

    If your salary is equal to your productivity, no one can make money by hiring you.

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    If your productivity is equal to your salary, no one can make money by firing you.

    You poor dear sweet summer child

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Fair, I guess publicly traded companies can have that incentive problem. Whereas in a private company where the executives are the shareholders, they can’t separate company gain and personal gain

    They absolutely can. Just because they're not publicly traded does not mean they have no investors, or that those investors cannot be manipulated in exactly the same ways by triggering short term improvements right before key earnings calls. In some ways it's even easier as key regulatory bodies are not automatically looped in.

    Hevach on
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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    I couldn't find anything on the Internet about Sweeney needing to fire 1000 people to pay for Eminem at his birthday party. But I did find the actual memo.

    Epic Games is a business. Shit happens. You don't need to spend more than 15 minutes on this forum to figure out that no one likes the Epic Store, and a lot of people prefer to buy exclusively from Steam, especially when everything is on sale. My kids play Fortnite. None of my adult friends do. So, it's not surprising to me that they're seeing the massive piles of money Fortnite use to make get smaller and smaller. At this point, it sounds like Epic can no longer sustain itself on that Fortnite dollar, and has to look at being profitable elsewhere to sustain itself.

    Also details of the severance packages for these employees, for what it's worth. But if you've ever lost a job before, this ain't that worse way to hit the ground:
    Saying goodbye to people who have helped build Epic is a terrible experience for all. The consolation is that we're adequately funded to support laid off employees: we’re offering a severance package that includes six months base pay and in the US/Canada/Brazil six months of Epic-paid healthcare. We’re offering to accelerate people’s stock option vesting schedule through the end of 2024 and are giving two additional years from today to exercise the options. In the US we’re also offering to vest any unearned profit sharing from their 401k. And we’ll provide benefits including career transition services and visa support where we can.

    Anyway, if someone finds that article about how much Sweeney paid Eminem to be at his birthday party, that'd be great.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    Except according to their "year in review" and investor calls, that memo is mostly lies. The epic games store is profitable month to month, and the company as a whole is expecting it's first increase in year over year profits this year.

    While the absurd sums they dropped to get exclusives when the store launched add up to an unrecovered loss, they realized in the first year that titles could be bought for much less than they were offering and they have curtailed that spending and they've said within the last six months that ongoing spending to secure exclusives pays for itself. That startup money's gone and not coming back and isn't even on the sheets for this year.


    Remember: companies can lie to the public and can lie to employees. Only investors have recourse if a company lies to them. So when it's available always cross check.

    Hevach on
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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Except according to their "year in review" and investor calls, that memo is mostly lies. The epic games store is profitable month to month, and the company as a whole is expecting it's first increase in year over year profits this year.

    One year of profits (potentially) after fives years of losses doesn't magically fix the balance sheet.
    Hevach wrote: »
    While the absurd sums they dropped to get exclusives when the store launched add up to an unrecovered loss, they realized in the first year that titles could be bought for much less than they were offering and they have curtailed that spending and they've said within the last six months that ongoing spending to secure exclusives pays for itself. That startup money's gone and not coming back and isn't even on the sheets for this year.

    And that money went to the developers...and Epic lost out on the deal. Giving developers money upfront in the hopes of sales recouping that cost, versus putting the entire development burden on developers, and letting them take the risk on sales turned out to not be a winning strategy. Turns out platform loyalty (like Steam) is real, and extremely difficult to chip away at.
    Hevach wrote: »
    So when it's available always cross check.

    Always happy to read more. Feel free to share a few links.

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    Ultimately it doesn't matter whether EGS had 5 profitable years, or one or zero. Because it's never one Tim Sweeney who gets laid off and has to worry about how he's gonna make his mortgage much less get Christmas presents for his kids (which wouldn't happen even if he was laid off cause he's already fuckin billionaire). It's always a few hundred or a thousand random employees who weren't the ones who made the bad business decisions.

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
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    OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    Ultimately it doesn't matter whether EGS had 5 profitable years, or one or zero. Because it's never one Tim Sweeney who gets laid off and has to worry about how he's gonna make his mortgage much less get Christmas presents for his kids (which wouldn't happen even if he was laid off cause he's already fuckin billionaire). It's always a few hundred or a thousand random employees who weren't the ones who made the bad business decisions.

    That's the problem with non privately held corporations - the c-suite and shareholders are largely shielded from market accountability. A sole proprietor is taking on a lot more personal risk.

    It's the same issue with politicians and lifer bureaucrats in the government. They are immune to most of the consequences of the policies they implement. When was the last time a member of Congress was required to rely on Medicare or the VA to not die?

    Overkillengine on
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    DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    Ultimately it doesn't matter whether EGS had 5 profitable years, or one or zero. Because it's never one Tim Sweeney who gets laid off and has to worry about how he's gonna make his mortgage much less get Christmas presents for his kids (which wouldn't happen even if he was laid off cause he's already fuckin billionaire). It's always a few hundred or a thousand random employees who weren't the ones who made the bad business decisions.

    That's the problem with non privately held corporations - the c-suite and shareholders are largely shielded from market accountability. A sole proprietor is taking on a lot more personal risk.

    Are you suggesting a sole proprietor who makes bad business decisions would fire themselves rather than random low-level employees, because if so, I got bad news for you.

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    OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    Djiem wrote: »
    Ultimately it doesn't matter whether EGS had 5 profitable years, or one or zero. Because it's never one Tim Sweeney who gets laid off and has to worry about how he's gonna make his mortgage much less get Christmas presents for his kids (which wouldn't happen even if he was laid off cause he's already fuckin billionaire). It's always a few hundred or a thousand random employees who weren't the ones who made the bad business decisions.

    That's the problem with non privately held corporations - the c-suite and shareholders are largely shielded from market accountability. A sole proprietor is taking on a lot more personal risk.

    Are you suggesting a sole proprietor who makes bad business decisions would fire themselves rather than random low-level employees, because if so, I got bad news for you.

    Never said they wouldn't - what I am talking about is that a sole proprietor stands to lose a lot more financially from being a bonehead since as a sole proprietor, there’s no separation between your personal and business assets and expenses. You are personally responsible for all your business’s debts and obligations. There isn't the same level of incentive for enshittification since there is a lot more personal risk for doing so.

    Granted, some people will be dumb anyways, but that going to happen in any organization, so a complaint about that does not constitute a rebuttal of my point.

    Overkillengine on
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    nialloniallo Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    Ultimately it doesn't matter whether EGS had 5 profitable years, or one or zero. Because it's never one Tim Sweeney who gets laid off and has to worry about how he's gonna make his mortgage much less get Christmas presents for his kids (which wouldn't happen even if he was laid off cause he's already fuckin billionaire). It's always a few hundred or a thousand random employees who weren't the ones who made the bad business decisions.

    That's the problem with non privately held corporations - the c-suite and shareholders are largely shielded from market accountability. A sole proprietor is taking on a lot more personal risk.

    Are you suggesting a sole proprietor who makes bad business decisions would fire themselves rather than random low-level employees, because if so, I got bad news for you.

    Huh? That's the opposite. They didn't say sole proprietors are pure and kind, just that they are much less accountable. If a business owned by a sole proprietor goes under, they will often lose their livelihood or go bankrupt. Sometimes they will emerge happy and wealthy, but members of the PMC (professional managerial class) will emerge squeaky-clean and happy no matter what happens to the businesses they manage.

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    jberryjberry longtime reader firsttime poster Fort Smith Ark USARegistered User regular
    edited November 2023
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    If your productivity is equal to your salary, no one can make money by firing you.
    at two different jobs i worked for a certain duration with hyperefficiency as a sort of experiment and during that time i was four to five times as productive as any other worker

    in both circumstances this did nothing but make my bosses suspicious that i had somehow gamed the system and in one of those instances they wasted months going back over everything i had done to look for mistakes or other evidence that my massive amount of completed work was somehow illegitimate

    no problems were found

    yet my effort netted me naught but misfortune

    your superiors in authority who are your inferiors in ability are incapable of recognizing as such any talent which is greater than their own and their reaction to such talent will be to categorize you as a threat

    jberry on
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    OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    niallo wrote: »
    If a business owned by a sole proprietor goes under, they will often lose their livelihood or go bankrupt. Sometimes they will emerge happy and wealthy, but members of the PMC (professional managerial class) will emerge squeaky-clean and happy no matter what happens to the businesses they manage.

    Basically. Thus why I also trotted politicians and lifer bureaucrats in the government as a co-example too. LLC's in particular are so susceptible to enshittification in part because they function in a similar way to a bloated and out of touch government when it comes to accountability of their managerial castes for crappy decisions.

    I've worked as part of both and the similarities are fucking *eerie*.

    jberry wrote: »
    at two different jobs i worked for a certain duration with hyperefficiency as a sort of experiment and during that time i was four to five times as productive as any other worker

    in both circumstances this did nothing but make my bosses suspicious that i had somehow gamed the system and in one of those instances they wasted months going back over everything i had done to look for mistakes or other evidence that my massive amount of completed work was somehow illegitimate

    no problems were found

    yet my effort netted me naught but misfortune

    your superiors in authority who are your inferiors in ability are incapable of recognizing as such any talent which is greater than their own and their reaction to such talent will be to categorize you as a threat


    I have a co-worker that went through certain routine tasks at a high rate of speed. Looked wonderful, high achieving, numbers go up! It wasn't until later it was discovered that corners were being cut and the consequential cleanup caused by that came home to roost.

    Supervisors have an obligation to ensure that you aren't pulling that.

    I get a pass on being a slacker a lot because my supers know that once I've done something, it means I got it done well enough to ensure I never had to touch it again if at all possible.

    Overkillengine on
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