That's how I remember BSG too, but since I was struck by just how much DS9 feels like '90s TV (I think it's the editing of the era that I dislike most, especially when it's often built around ad breaks that are no longer present - dramatic pause, slow zoom, swelling music), I was wondering how much I could trust my memory in the matter. It's not even that DS9 doesn't do anything radically new stylistically, it's that I find the style extremely dull by now. It's probably the episodes that benefit from a simple style where it doesn't bother me.
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
This shit sucks for Star Wars too. Oh your new show is set 100 years before Emperor Palpatine or whatever? Guess what I don't fucking care.
The MCU didn't do this in its golden age! They had a fuckton of movies and they were mostly chronological except for maybe like a couple of one-off origin stories. Having your characters and setting be affected by the events of the last thing you released is fucking rad, actually. More things should try it.
I hate prequels in general, but collapsing into infinite prequels and interquels because whatever thing furthest along in the timeline sucked is my biggest franchise peeve. Star Wars is the obvious example, but it's constitutionally mandated that I bring up Star Ocean running from the third game every time the subject comes up.
Just fucking patch it up and move on so it's not sitting there, your franchise forever bookended by something stupid.
Kamar on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Work from home ... work from room? Could a Chief Engineer do his or her job without getting up and going to the engine room, instead choosing to monitor things with a tablet while lying in bed?
I could see it being a security feature that, aside from the odd god-like entity or Barclay ship-brain-takeover, you can't do certain things on ships except at consoles hard-wired to be authorized. So you can monitor the plasma flow from anywhere on the ship, but to actually make adjustments you have to physically go to controls with link to engineering.
I don't want anymore Bajor/Cardassian stuff - DS9 did it all. And let's be honest, DS9 only got memorable because it did introduce its 'universe-ending threat' in the Dominion and Jem Hadar. There's nothing more to be done here - especially because DS9 screws up its ending and let's the fascists keep being fascist in their own territory. Basically fighting WW2 and then stopping at Germany's borders. Not really interested in seeing the continuation of fascism.
Cardassia got bombed to oblivion by the Dominion and the remains are ruled by the Cardassians that explicitely worked against the Dominion on the war. Not sure what else is even possible, given that, again, most of the population got genocided.
I for one am looking forward to the Young Zephram prequel series.
Followed by its prequel, Star Trek Origins: Eugenics War.
Followed by its prequel, Bell Riots: A Star Trek Story.
Followed by its prequel, Star Trek: The Gary Seven Chronicles.
Followed by its prequel, Dunkirk: Rise of the Kirk Family.
Followed by its prequel, Jack the Ripper: The Literal Phantom Menace.
I would legitimately watch something about the Eugenic wars, but that's mostly because SNW established that Khan is from Toronto, with one of the most Canadian names possible, and it would be great to see why Khan went crazy.
I suspect it's traffic related, which is why transporters are seen as essential infrastructure. That's the only thing standing between the Federation and more Khans!
That and trains.
+1
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Think he might be talking about the Dominion being the fascists that were left to keep doing their thing.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Maybe this was already said but the worst part of "far in the future" or "far in the past" is that time doesn't really matter anyway. Sure you "might" need to reference some things if you pretend your happening in the same time. But there's no reason that starfleet couldn't have another ship going off in another 5 year mission that wasn't around the alpha quadrant but also not the delta quadrant...or also space is freaking huge, maybe people just don't run into each other all the time.
Besides Jack the Ripper was that weird space being that they killed by tranqing it and beaming it into space (which sounds like a solution for everything!).
Maybe this was already said but the worst part of "far in the future" or "far in the past" is that time doesn't really matter anyway. Sure you "might" need to reference some things if you pretend your happening in the same time. But there's no reason that starfleet couldn't have another ship going off in another 5 year mission that wasn't around the alpha quadrant but also not the delta quadrant...or also space is freaking huge, maybe people just don't run into each other all the time.
Give me a show about one of the other Constitution class ships out there. Just have the captain getting annoyed by weekly updates from Kirk about defeating yet another space god.
I for one am looking forward to the Young Zephram prequel series.
Followed by its prequel, Star Trek Origins: Eugenics War.
Followed by its prequel, Bell Riots: A Star Trek Story.
Followed by its prequel, Star Trek: The Gary Seven Chronicles.
Followed by its prequel, Dunkirk: Rise of the Kirk Family.
Followed by its prequel, Jack the Ripper: The Literal Phantom Menace.
I would legitimately watch something about the Eugenic wars, but that's mostly because SNW established that Khan is from Toronto, with one of the most Canadian names possible, and it would be great to see why Khan went crazy.
I suspect it's traffic related, which is why transporters are seen as essential infrastructure. That's the only thing standing between the Federation and more Khans!
That and trains.
We already knew Khan was Canadian. I mean, just look:
This is an average Canadian physique brought on by a fine diet of poutine if I ever saw one.
Richy on
+3
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Pushups actually. Someone asked about his swoleness and that was Montalban’s answer. Lots and lots of pushups.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Maybe this was already said but the worst part of "far in the future" or "far in the past" is that time doesn't really matter anyway. Sure you "might" need to reference some things if you pretend your happening in the same time. But there's no reason that starfleet couldn't have another ship going off in another 5 year mission that wasn't around the alpha quadrant but also not the delta quadrant...or also space is freaking huge, maybe people just don't run into each other all the time.
Give me a show about one of the other Constitution class ships out there. Just have the captain getting annoyed by weekly updates from Kirk about defeating yet another space god.
Various fan productions covered most of them, before Axanar peed in the pool and ruined everything for everyone.
Just wait for the untold story of the primordial soup Picard met in “All Good Things!”
On phone or otherwise I'd make a comic of this. So instead I leave a script for someone to draw:
Panel 1: "PREVIOUSLY ON: Star Trek: Primordial Soup!"
(Puddle of soup sitting there)
Panel 2: "AND NOW..."
(Same puddle of soup sitting there)
Panel 3:
(Same puddle of soup sitting there)
Panel 4:
"TUNE IN NEXT WEEK for the gripping season finale, when Soupy meets an unexpected visitor!"
(Same shot of soup, but with two humanoid shadows cast over it)
"Let's take a look at the scores! The girls are at the square root of Pi, while the boys are still at a crudely drawn picture of a duck. Clearly, it's anybody's game!"
Just wait for the untold story of the primordial soup Picard met in “All Good Things!”
On phone or otherwise I'd make a comic of this. So instead I leave a script for someone to draw:
Panel 1: "PREVIOUSLY ON: Star Trek: Primordial Soup!"
(Puddle of soup sitting there)
Panel 2: "AND NOW..."
(Same puddle of soup sitting there)
Panel 3:
(Same puddle of soup sitting there)
Panel 4:
"TUNE IN NEXT WEEK for the gripping season finale, when Soupy meets an unexpected visitor!"
(Same shot of soup, but with two humanoid shadows cast over it)
After five seasons, people would generally concur that the show really hit its stride in season 2, after it developed the slight film over it.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
+4
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MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
I worry Star Trek's going down the Star Wars route of being terrified to move the timeline forward, so just giving us endless prequels and interquels instead.
Both of them have finally tried moving the timeline forward and got a whole lot of flak for it, so I'm not surprised they're reluctant to try it again any time soon.
It's not the problem, but that's never stopped an executive from deciding it is.
Picard was Bad, Actually and Discovery was a prequel that then jumped to post-apocalyptic Grim Darkness of the Far Future where there are only maladjusted psyker children causing warpstorms
Nobody seems to have an issue with LD moving stuff forward. If they wanted to bump the timeline up to 2460 or something I don't think anyone would be upset.
I worry Star Trek's going down the Star Wars route of being terrified to move the timeline forward, so just giving us endless prequels and interquels instead.
Both of them have finally tried moving the timeline forward and got a whole lot of flak for it, so I'm not surprised they're reluctant to try it again any time soon.
It's not the problem, but that's never stopped an executive from deciding it is.
Picard was Bad, Actually and Discovery was a prequel that then jumped to post-apocalyptic Grim Darkness of the Far Future where there are only maladjusted psyker children causing warpstorms
Nobody seems to have an issue with LD moving stuff forward. If they wanted to bump the timeline up to 2460 or something I don't think anyone would be upset.
I think the issue is more cowardly people running the franchise.
+2
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I'm extremely annoyed at Discovery moving up the timeline because they figuratively (and sort of literally) did it as a "same shit, different day" dodge just like how prequel material is used. They went so far down the timeline that nothing was relevant or connected, just like they wanted to have a sandbox in a prequel setting. And to make the sandbox match their hyper-dramatic bullshit, they then trash the setting to make it fit their constant galaxy-under-threat nonsense. The awful shit they had happen are now also either huge, lousy obstacles for writers who want to put anything in the intervening multiple centuries of time or something that will have to be ignored and/or removed entirely.
It was a really really shitty move and hopefully the whole move gets consigned to the trash can where it belongs so a team with some actual chops and spine can continue the show from near-DS9 timeline and actually move the damn setting forward decently.
+2
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Strange New Worlds has introduced the concept of a sliding, bend-don't-break, flexible timeline. So Disco's far future can happen but the exact dates and time scales don't have to match Disco canon
Just have another time travel episode that timey whimey resets both JJ's bullshit (brings back Romulans as the sneaky adversaries that you can make friends with but OH NO ARE THEY SECRETLY BETRAYING US) and the ALL THE DILITHIUM BLEW UP EVERYWHERE SOMEHOW crap of Discovery. Just dump all that shit.
Strange New Worlds has introduced the concept of a sliding, bend-don't-break, flexible timeline. So Disco's far future can happen but the exact dates and time scales don't have to match Disco canon
SNW didn't introduce it. Enterprise season 4 already moved the Eugenics Wars to an imprecise date in the mid 21st Century.
+1
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
ehh but SNW had the character out loud be like no we keep messing with things but they keep happening anyways time just adjusts around it
ehh but SNW had the character out loud be like no we keep messing with things but they keep happening anyways time just adjusts around it
Heck, that goes back to VOY and the guy convinced that time has it in for him, personally, because it won't give him his wife back no matter how he fucks around with it.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Strange New Worlds has introduced the concept of a sliding, bend-don't-break, flexible timeline. So Disco's far future can happen but the exact dates and time scales don't have to match Disco canon
SNW didn't introduce it. Enterprise season 4 already moved the Eugenics Wars to an imprecise date in the mid 21st Century.
One thing I really like about Abram's Trek is just having a new timeline straight up, so anything could happen.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Hopefully they'll completely scrub the future-Discovery crap from the timeline, but the point is that shit is getting pretty old. Can they just stop handing the franchise to people that seem almost embarrassed to be working with Star Trek canon? And aren't absolutely obsessed with pushing their own stories so hard that they will gladly gut established canon or characters to make those stories happen without doing anything to earn them?
There is plenty of room for a lot of variety in stories and style in Star Trek. It's a big a setting and we only see bits and pieces of it. And instead of going out to play in the 99.999% empty space somewhere else than the big events, showmakers feel like they keep having to screw with the established 0.001% of the setting because if they don't, somehow people will miss the enormous amount of obvious trappings of Star Trek and confuse the show with another one.
Which is why both SNW and Lower Decks are great. Both happily acknowledge and are aware of the existing canon and have no issue whatsoever doing their own thing without trying to trash canon for their own sake. Nobody is going to need to scrub anything from either series because even something like the Pakleds accidentally blowing up their own homeworld while being manipulated by somebody else is a big "yeah, that makes sense" situation. Even as goofy as Lower Decks can sometimes get, there could be another super-serious heavy-duty dramatic series shot in the exact same timeframe that could never even hear about the events of LD and it would make complete sense.
IE: "I don't like this show and they messed with canon, it's bad" vs "I like this show, and they messed with canon, it's fine".
+5
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Sure, if what you actually mean is being annoyed at showmakers doing a terrible job at working with canon, rather than the made-up problem you just made up. I can readily accept SNW, TOS, TNG, DS9, and LD as all part of the same canon so I don't really give a shit if anybody has a problem with bad shows being called out for being bad shows and causing actual or potential problems for other, better Trek actually worth the name.
Hopefully they'll completely scrub the future-Discovery crap from the timeline,
If they ever do that, they'll need to do a complete franchise reboot. Like it or not, these things happened.
If someone decides to do a new show and have it say that all three seasons of Picard and the last three of Discovery never happened because we want to have Romulus back or whatever, that's insanity. It's taking the 'it was all just a dream' thing from Dallas and extending it to multiple shows, just because they don't like the canon.
The only way is to acknowledge it. Acknowledge that it was terrible if you like, but acknowledge it (Like LD freely making jokes about the Warp Ten Salamanders, or masks taking over spaceships, etc).
Just use a Time Travel episode to fix everything - simples Romulans back. Because what JJ and Picard did to the Romulans was a crime. Or just ignore it. If you set the series 200 years post Picard, just say they fixed the Empire but it turned into the Romulan Republic or some shit and bang Romulans back on the menu. Or even better - Romulans openly in Starfleet because that would be hilarious and a good source of friction to mine.
Just use a Time Travel episode to fix everything - simples Romulans back. Because what JJ and Picard did to the Romulans was a crime. Or just ignore it. If you set the series 200 years post Picard, just say they fixed the Empire but it turned into the Romulan Republic or some shit and bang Romulans back on the menu. Or even better - Romulans openly in Starfleet because that would be hilarious and a good source of friction to mine.
Damn, now I want a series featuring the Holy Romulan Empire. It would almost make JJ's movies worth it.
Here me out, what if we start a new show, and its in the holodeck and these people have various monitors up with ALL the shows and they are pointing and going, "yeah i like that one but not this one" and it's all just a big joke about how all of this is made up and people can like what they want! And then we get back to punching some aliens.
Just use a Time Travel episode to fix everything - simples Romulans back. Because what JJ and Picard did to the Romulans was a crime. Or just ignore it. If you set the series 200 years post Picard, just say they fixed the Empire but it turned into the Romulan Republic or some shit and bang Romulans back on the menu. Or even better - Romulans openly in Starfleet because that would be hilarious and a good source of friction to mine.
Nah, just do what Picard season 3 did and completely ignore those seasons ever existed.
Posts
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I hate prequels in general, but collapsing into infinite prequels and interquels because whatever thing furthest along in the timeline sucked is my biggest franchise peeve. Star Wars is the obvious example, but it's constitutionally mandated that I bring up Star Ocean running from the third game every time the subject comes up.
Just fucking patch it up and move on so it's not sitting there, your franchise forever bookended by something stupid.
I could see it being a security feature that, aside from the odd god-like entity or Barclay ship-brain-takeover, you can't do certain things on ships except at consoles hard-wired to be authorized. So you can monitor the plasma flow from anywhere on the ship, but to actually make adjustments you have to physically go to controls with link to engineering.
Followed by its prequel, Star Trek Origins: Eugenics War.
Followed by its prequel, Bell Riots: A Star Trek Story.
Followed by its prequel, Star Trek: The Gary Seven Chronicles.
Followed by its prequel, Dunkirk: Rise of the Kirk Family.
Followed by its prequel, Jack the Ripper: The Literal Phantom Menace.
Cardassia got bombed to oblivion by the Dominion and the remains are ruled by the Cardassians that explicitely worked against the Dominion on the war. Not sure what else is even possible, given that, again, most of the population got genocided.
I would legitimately watch something about the Eugenic wars, but that's mostly because SNW established that Khan is from Toronto, with one of the most Canadian names possible, and it would be great to see why Khan went crazy.
I suspect it's traffic related, which is why transporters are seen as essential infrastructure. That's the only thing standing between the Federation and more Khans!
That and trains.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
An anomaly spreading backwards through time, expanding as it goes, eventually undoing everything... sounds pretty apt to me.
Redjac, Redjac, Redjac!
Give me a show about one of the other Constitution class ships out there. Just have the captain getting annoyed by weekly updates from Kirk about defeating yet another space god.
We already knew Khan was Canadian. I mean, just look:
This is an average Canadian physique brought on by a fine diet of poutine if I ever saw one.
Various fan productions covered most of them, before Axanar peed in the pool and ruined everything for everyone.
Pushups clearly fueled by poutine.
On phone or otherwise I'd make a comic of this. So instead I leave a script for someone to draw:
(Puddle of soup sitting there)
Panel 2: "AND NOW..."
(Same puddle of soup sitting there)
Panel 3:
(Same puddle of soup sitting there)
Panel 4:
"TUNE IN NEXT WEEK for the gripping season finale, when Soupy meets an unexpected visitor!"
(Same shot of soup, but with two humanoid shadows cast over it)
After five seasons, people would generally concur that the show really hit its stride in season 2, after it developed the slight film over it.
Picard was Bad, Actually and Discovery was a prequel that then jumped to post-apocalyptic Grim Darkness of the Far Future where there are only maladjusted psyker children causing warpstorms
Nobody seems to have an issue with LD moving stuff forward. If they wanted to bump the timeline up to 2460 or something I don't think anyone would be upset.
I think the issue is more cowardly people running the franchise.
It was a really really shitty move and hopefully the whole move gets consigned to the trash can where it belongs so a team with some actual chops and spine can continue the show from near-DS9 timeline and actually move the damn setting forward decently.
SNW didn't introduce it. Enterprise season 4 already moved the Eugenics Wars to an imprecise date in the mid 21st Century.
Heck, that goes back to VOY and the guy convinced that time has it in for him, personally, because it won't give him his wife back no matter how he fucks around with it.
Okay, but I watched it in SNW
Which is not a thing I can say for Enterprise
Hey now, that's racist against Tellarites
One thing I really like about Abram's Trek is just having a new timeline straight up, so anything could happen.
There is plenty of room for a lot of variety in stories and style in Star Trek. It's a big a setting and we only see bits and pieces of it. And instead of going out to play in the 99.999% empty space somewhere else than the big events, showmakers feel like they keep having to screw with the established 0.001% of the setting because if they don't, somehow people will miss the enormous amount of obvious trappings of Star Trek and confuse the show with another one.
Which is why both SNW and Lower Decks are great. Both happily acknowledge and are aware of the existing canon and have no issue whatsoever doing their own thing without trying to trash canon for their own sake. Nobody is going to need to scrub anything from either series because even something like the Pakleds accidentally blowing up their own homeworld while being manipulated by somebody else is a big "yeah, that makes sense" situation. Even as goofy as Lower Decks can sometimes get, there could be another super-serious heavy-duty dramatic series shot in the exact same timeframe that could never even hear about the events of LD and it would make complete sense.
If someone decides to do a new show and have it say that all three seasons of Picard and the last three of Discovery never happened because we want to have Romulus back or whatever, that's insanity. It's taking the 'it was all just a dream' thing from Dallas and extending it to multiple shows, just because they don't like the canon.
The only way is to acknowledge it. Acknowledge that it was terrible if you like, but acknowledge it (Like LD freely making jokes about the Warp Ten Salamanders, or masks taking over spaceships, etc).
Damn, now I want a series featuring the Holy Romulan Empire. It would almost make JJ's movies worth it.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
Nah, just do what Picard season 3 did and completely ignore those seasons ever existed.