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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] - Competency? In government?!

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Posts

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    edited November 30
    V1m wrote: »
    The flip side of that is that I view people believing they should have a veto over my choice to die as only a little better than them believing they should have a veto over my right to live.

    And after what my father went through, I will not ever change my mind on this.

    That's fair. But we've had assisted dying in Canada for a little while and I've seen how that's gone here. Frankly, assisted dying in a system without an adequate social safety net turns into the next horrible stage of austerity bullshit. Too poor to make it? Just end it all and save yourself from being a drain on your family.

    Shadowen on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Philosophically assisted dying seems acceptable but I am concerned about abuses of the system

  • dctrekkiedctrekkie Registered User regular

    I’m going to call bullshit on this for the very simple reason that every disabled and chronically ill person I know who has expressed concerns about the bill as it stands has been logical and consistent in the changes they want, and they were all vehement supporters of my right to choose / the Yes to Repeal campaign over here, despite the grossly emotionally manipulative No to Repeal campaign insisting that most of them would never have been given the chance to live at all had abortion been safely and legally available here.

    What changes do they want? Everything I've seen has been either a) it cannot happen under any circumstances as no safeguards will be enough or b) it shouldn't even be discussed until there's more funding for hospice\end of life care (which is needed, but isn't really connected to whether this bill goes through).

    I've not even seen any good explanation of why the proposed safeguards are inadequate, it seems mostly to be "well, if the safeguards are removed in the future things could go wrong", which is a terrible arguement.

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    edited November 30
    Shadowen wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    The flip side of that is that I view people believing they should have a veto over my choice to die as only a little better than them believing they should have a veto over my right to live.

    And after what my father went through, I will not ever change my mind on this.

    That's fair. But we've had assisted dying in Canada for a little while and I've seen how that's gone here. Frankly, assisted dying in a system without an adequate social safety net turns into the next horrible stage of austerity bullshit. Too poor to make it? Just end it all and save yourself from being a drain on your family.

    People feel forced to make this choice already, though. They just suffer horribly for a while before it ends. Forcing them to suffer for months or years doesn't mean the situation better.

    V1m on
  • MuppetmanMuppetman Registered User regular
    I thought Ian Dunt's writing about the assisted dying stuff, both before and after was pretty good.

    https://iandunt.substack.com/p/trying-to-make-a-damn-bit-of-sense

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    dctrekkie wrote: »

    I’m going to call bullshit on this for the very simple reason that every disabled and chronically ill person I know who has expressed concerns about the bill as it stands has been logical and consistent in the changes they want, and they were all vehement supporters of my right to choose / the Yes to Repeal campaign over here, despite the grossly emotionally manipulative No to Repeal campaign insisting that most of them would never have been given the chance to live at all had abortion been safely and legally available here.

    What changes do they want? Everything I've seen has been either a) it cannot happen under any circumstances as no safeguards will be enough or b) it shouldn't even be discussed until there's more funding for hospice\end of life care (which is needed, but isn't really connected to whether this bill goes through).

    I've not even seen any good explanation of why the proposed safeguards are inadequate, it seems mostly to be "well, if the safeguards are removed in the future things could go wrong", which is a terrible arguement.

    That’s not what I’ve seen. All I’ve seen is people saying “Yes it’s very important to legislate for this but saying in the text of the bill that safeguarding is important is not the same as putting actual safeguarding measures in.” And then giving a list of potential safeguarding measures.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m wholly in favour of the bill. I’m just pointing out that every disabled person I know that has qualms about it has brought up very reasonable points that seem like they can be implemented into the bill, as well as raising the fact that the bill must never be allowed to become an alternative to further investment and improvement of palliative care. There HAS to be both legal options to end your life with dignity on your own terms AND as much care as possible to keep people as free of pain as possible as they reach the end of their lives, under whatever circumstances that happens.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    While I'm in favour of a right to die in principle, I do think there's no getting away from the fact that the situation is going to arise where someone who is terminally ill needs prolonged palliative care, which is extremely expensive, and they come under pressure from any of a variety of sources to cease becoming a source of expense through suicide

    Like, I'd vote in favour of the bill but I think it's important to look that fact full in the face

  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    While I'm in favour of a right to die in principle, I do think there's no getting away from the fact that the situation is going to arise where someone who is terminally ill needs prolonged palliative care, which is extremely expensive, and they come under pressure from any of a variety of sources to cease becoming a source of expense through suicide

    Like, I'd vote in favour of the bill but I think it's important to look that fact full in the face

    And as someone who has worked in a bank and seen how greedy people can get over inheritances, I imagine there will be plenty of family who suggest that way out so they don't fall into elderly care, for instance, which drains their finances.

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    It's grossly naive to think that this doesn't happen anyway.

    That being said, people abuse painkillers too.

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    It's grossly naive to think that this doesn't happen anyway.

    That being said, people abuse painkillers too.

    Which is why the onus needs to be on passing the legislation first and then adjusting for whatever safeguards are needed later. I think anyway. And certainly anyone I know who is iffy about the legislation seems to lean that way too.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    im surprised no retvrn types have shown up with the "doctors should be killing you anyway, its their traditional job"

    cf the lancet publishing articles about how great cocaine is for euthanasia etc in the 20s

    nobody respects traditional values any more

    3fpohw4n01yj.png
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    I mean

    it's pretty effective as a painkiller

    (I've heard)

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited November 30
    V1m wrote: »
    I mean

    it's pretty effective as a painkiller

    (I've heard)

    in the late 1800s half the pharmacopeia was just cocaine, morphia, apomorphine, strychnine and vibes

    quite literally multiple conditions (including cancer) had opiates and cocaine as the standard treatment and the final step, bizarrely

    when i was doing some work a while ago on the doctor who founded the journal addiction his diary noted just how emphasised in his training the job of the family doctor in helping people die with dignity and on their own terms was - and consequently why it was so important to establish trust and long-running personal relationships, because this couldn't be executed without it

    it is to an extent interesting that this quietly just vanished from the 50s onwards with surprisingly little discussion. "the talking cure" was quietly resented by a lot of the older doctors who felt they were quite capable of helping people with psychological problems already, as that was a big chunk of their informal job. their effectiveness at this might be harder to pin down

    j y dent - the doctor in question - infamously "cured" william burroughs of his addiction to opiates (using apomorphine), but apparently this cure didnt stop him from uncuring himself forthwith and needing to do it again

    surrealitycheck on
    3fpohw4n01yj.png
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    fwiw, while i am neutral on this exact bill as i havent looked at the details, i was talking recently to barbara munroe who ran st christopher's hospice for over a decade and she was very pro, obviously with the context that she had witnessed the most distressing possible cases in which there is basically no possible argument in favour of continuing things (and, one detail worth noting - frequently with the really extreme cases the patient is knocked out for weeks until they die because being awake is agony, so even the most keen mother theresa style suffering enjoyer would struggle there)

    i find it difficult to fault people who look at the gov and say "has anything the uk state done been remotely adequate in any way whatsoever in the last 2 decades" and say no thanks, though

    3fpohw4n01yj.png
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    RTÉ are reporting the current very early seat count results thusly.

    ub72d9qi5ds4.jpeg

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    The count continues! In Dublin Central Gerry “The Monk” Hutch has been (far too) narrowly defeated by Marie Sherlock of Labour, who takes the last seat in that constituency.

    Yes. The crime lord was defeated by Sherlock. We appreciate symbolism in our elections.

    The current wins so far:

    Fianna Fáil 21 seats
    Fine Gael 21 seats
    Sinn Féin 15 seats
    Green Party 0 seats
    Labour 4 seats
    Social Democrats 3 seats
    PBP/Solidarity 1 seat
    Aontú 1 seat
    “Independent Ireland” (actually a far right party) 3 seats
    Actual Independents 7 seats

  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    Turns out Gregg Wallace is a massive sex pest.

    Another absolute creep of a guy protected by the BBC it seems.

  • HerculePyroHerculePyro Lord Mayor's CroupierRegistered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    Turns out Gregg Wallace is a massive sex pest.

    Another absolute creep of a guy protected by the BBC it seems.

    I did "enjoy" his response. Well, I suppose when one is in a hole, the instinct is to dig deeper.

  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Astonishing doubling down by Greggg in response a well. Proper jaw dropping stuff.

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    When I hear "they're all middle class women of a certain age" I think "so, Gregggg, you've clearly got a type"

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    I suppose we should be grateful that at least he's not yet another nonce

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    Astonishing doubling down by Greggg in response a well. Proper jaw dropping stuff.

    Apparently his initial response was to put out a video stating that he had never at any time been unfaithful to his wife

    Which is very ???

    And then this, apparently

    I'd be surprised if it was still on the front pages if he'd just shut the fuck up

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Astonishing doubling down by Greggg in response a well. Proper jaw dropping stuff.

    Yeah absolutely wild. Like what a total dickhead

  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    edited December 2
    Oh, ok. That's what the "bald man talking about middle class women of a certain age" thing is all about.
    Now the memes make sense.

    HerrCron on
    Now Playing:
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    Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age [Switch] - Sit down and watch our game play itself
  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Are... are there memes?

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    It's the internet, Jazz, there are always memes

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Good point, well made.

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    So far I was only shown the Skinner the children must be wron meme

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    There are now a grand total of four Dáil seats left to fill out of 174. Here’s the breakdown as it stands.

    Fianna Fáil 46 seats
    Fine Gael 38 seats
    Sinn Féin 37 seats
    Green Party 1 seat
    Labour 11 seats
    Social Democrats 11 seats
    PBP/Solidarity 3 seats
    Aontú 2 seats
    “Independent Ireland” 4 seats
    Independents 16 seats
    100% Redress Party - 1 seat

    Basic breakdown. Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are right of centre, Labour is left of centre, Sinn Féin, the Green Party, the Social Democrats and People Before Profit / Solidarity are left, with Solidarity the furthest left, Aontú and Independent Ireland are far right, the independents are a mix of everything from far right to far left with every variation in between. The 100% Redress Party is a single issue party representing homeowners whose new build homes were built with substandard unsafe materials and who now find themselves stuck with enormous repair bills with little to no compensation.

    So! It’s looking like another five years of FF/FG, with Labour and the Social Democrats being able to make things very easy or very, very difficult for them. The Greens, alas, have suffered the fate of so many smaller parties that go into coalition with much larger parties on the right. This is actually the SECOND time the greens went into coalition with Fianna Fáil and suffered all but a wipeout afterwards, so it’ll be interesting to see if they can make a comeback again in the future, or if Labour and the Social Democrats will capitalise on their gains from the green voter base.

  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    The Irish electorate being very much

    What do we want?
    Change!
    When do we want it?
    Ahh, don't be rushing yourselves now...

    Now Playing:
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    Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age [Switch] - Sit down and watch our game play itself
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    I think this might count as the first election to not throw out the incumbents since 2020? Though only in a kind of technical sense, considering

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    edited December 2
    It's going to be a season of green wipe outs, it feels like. Same in Island. And in Germany in February probably, too.

    Lots of fragmentation and votes for the nebulous "change" for niche and populist parties.

    honovere on
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    And that’s a wrap. Whoever ends up forming a government, here’s how the 34th Dáil looks.

    f4v0any9afdm.jpeg

    “Other” is the 100% redress party.

  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks OaklandRegistered User regular
    Presumably this is another FF+FG combined government? Between the two of those parties they have just shy of half of the seats anyway, so they'd only need one or two of these small parties to combine and make a majority.

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Presumably this is another FF+FG combined government? Between the two of those parties they have just shy of half of the seats anyway, so they'd only need one or two of these small parties to combine and make a majority.

    Most likely. 88 seats are needed to form a government. FF and FG have 86 between them. They could grab a few independents or even (God help us) “Independent Ireland” or Aontú and they’d have the numbers they need.

  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    It's going to be a season of green wipe outs, it feels like. Same in Island. And in Germany in February probably, too.

    Lots of fragmentation and votes for the nebulous "change" for niche and populist parties.

    In general green parties are now running into the sad reality that people in general are committed to ignoring climate change. Anything that reminds the general public that they need to eat less meat, fly less and drive less is political poison. Even mentioning things like this in otherwise progressive spaces will get people defensive and angry.

    I'm happy I decided not to have kids, we're heading for +2/3 degrees in my lifetime and even if it won't mean extinction it will absolutely mean unimaginable suffering on a global scale.

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    But some rich bastards will die even richer before they're affected by any consequences. Isn't that what's really important?

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    But some rich bastards will die even richer before they're affected by any consequences. Isn't that what's really important?

    It would be HILARIOUS if Fianna Fáil ditch Fine Gael for Sinn Féin and go into government with the single solitary Green TD left, but it’s not likely to happen.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/dec/10/birmingham-city-council-agrees-deal-over-equal-pay-claims

    Birmingham City Council has agreed its equal pay claim "within the limit of the exceptional financial support package agreed with the previous government in January"

    Why did it take several years for the Tories to agree a package of support?

    Who can say

  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/dec/10/birmingham-city-council-agrees-deal-over-equal-pay-claims

    Birmingham City Council has agreed its equal pay claim "within the limit of the exceptional financial support package agreed with the previous government in January"

    Why did it take several years for the Tories to agree a package of support?

    Who can say

    I’m not sure I understand the Tory part of your comment? I was under the impression this Council was typically Labour?

    I’m not sure it matters, as this is going to be something that likely happened everywhere unfortunately, both in the public and private sector.

    It’s likely this settlement is what contributed to pushing this council into bankruptcy but if memory serves me correctly, this Council have a bunch of other things happen that cost a whole bunch of money.

    All the council cuts in funding the central Tory government made, while continually making councils do more in terms of statutory requirements hasn’t helped.

    Councils have had to try make investments to cover the gap, but when those don’t work out…..well it only gets worse (ironically the level up thing the Tories did, just meant councils had to hire a bunch of consultants to fight for funding).

    PSN Fleety2009
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