Options

Homelessness: causes and solutions

OrcaOrca Also known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered User regular
edited June 28 in Debate and/or Discourse
A GDST about homelessness.

From my uneducated perspective there are three causes:

1) Not enough money
2) Mental illness
3) Drug abuse

Let's discuss here instead of in the SCOTUS thread.

Orca on
«1345

Posts

  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    2 and 3 are false narratives last I looked into the research. Drug abuse is more prevalent amongst the rich than the poor for obvious reasons.

  • Options
    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    A GDST about homelessness.

    From my uneducated perspective there are three causes:

    1) Not enough money
    2) Mental illness
    3) Drug abuse


    Let's discuss here instead of in the SCOTUS thread.

    2) A short run of bad luck that could also happen to you because we all suffer under capitalism.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • Options
    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    2 and 3 are false narratives last I looked into the research. Drug abuse is more prevalent amongst the rich than the poor for obvious reasons.

    Is it more a matter of visibility then?

    I can certainly imagine #1 being an invisible problem since most folks are going to try to live off a couch/their car/whatever they can until they get back on their feet.

    But when I pass an encampment, the folks that are visible certainly don't seem altogether there. And there are certain regular panhandlers I've been passing daily for years that frequently look high AF.

  • Options
    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    There's also the matter of housing.

    Rent keeps skyrocketing everywhere, and houses keep skyrocketing in value. I just got my second postcard this year saying the city has decided my house is worth $50,000 more than it used to be.

    "That's great, you can sell it and make more money!" say my coworkers and family. Motherfucker I just want this roof over my head, this is not my investment portfolio or whatever the fuck, this is where I live. And now I have to pay more to keep living.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • Options
    minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field njRegistered User regular
    Also, 1 isn't really a root problem, generally. It's the end result of several different issues, including corporate greed, bad local government housing policies, a broken healthcare system, and several other systemic avenues that end at "oops, you can't afford your apartment anymore"

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
  • Options
    MagellMagell Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
    I guess it's about not having enough money, but the housing crisis is the big problem. Companies just buy up huge swatches of lands and buildings and then charge too much for rent for those places. Towns are also unlikely to build cheaper housing because the rich people yell at them about their property values going down. So you end up with either a bunch of homeless people or the people who are doing minimum wage jobs have to live outside the city and drive further to work somewhere.

    The first step has to be building more low income housing, or putting caps on rent and raising wages. We need new homeless shelters and more of them, and we need ways to help homeless people get back into society and get a job.

    We also need to stop fucking with public places to make them less friendly to homeless people. Benches don't need a bar in the middle or a gap for a wheelchair user. We don't need to lock public bathrooms overnight.

  • Options
    RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Adam Conover's excellent video on homelessness as explained by someone directly involved with helping them. It covers a lot of the issues about "does housing them solve the problem" "are they out there because of drugs or mental illness" etc.

  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    2 and 3 are false narratives last I looked into the research. Drug abuse is more prevalent amongst the rich than the poor for obvious reasons.

    Is it more a matter of visibility then?

    I can certainly imagine #1 being an invisible problem since most folks are going to try to live off a couch/their car/whatever they can until they get back on their feet.

    But when I pass an encampment, the folks that are visible certainly don't seem altogether there. And there are certain regular panhandlers I've been passing daily for years that frequently look high AF.

    Can you, at a glance, tell if someone is high or extremely sleep deprived? High or processing some of the worst trauma of their lives? Or what is just behavior that is normal for that environment vs what is normal for yours in your day to day life? I couldn't, and I have worked extensively with both addiction and homelessness on separate occasions.

    You are looking at a vastly different society from the outside and projecting your world onto it to draw conclusions. This is likely informed by the cultural narrative that is given to us through various media. It is also more likely for you to remember someone acting a fool than quietly trying to nap in the middle of the day. I can give you numerous examples of odd behaviors that make perfectly rational sense when that is how you survive while homeless. It isn't an easy or nice life.

  • Options
    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I'm fairly certain the guys sitting on the sidewalk covered on rags and picking at the endless series of sores on their legs are not the rich.

  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    A GDST about homelessness.

    From my uneducated perspective there are three causes:

    1) Not enough money
    2) Mental illness
    3) Drug abuse

    Let's discuss here instead of in the SCOTUS thread.

    The housing affordability crisis is a housing crisis, not an affordability crisis. The issue isn't a lack of money, it's a lack of housing. Because no amount of money will turn 10 homes into enough roofs for >10 households. Only building an >11th home will do that. You can make six figures and be in the top ~20% of wage earners and incapable of affording rent within a reasonable commute shed. Getting a pay raise won't really alter that, or, if it does, at best it just displaces someone else from Lake Woebegone

  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    A GDST about homelessness.

    From my uneducated perspective there are three causes:

    1) Not enough money
    2) Mental illness
    3) Drug abuse

    Let's discuss here instead of in the SCOTUS thread.

    The housing affordability crisis is a housing crisis, not an affordability crisis. The issue isn't a lack of money, it's a lack of housing. Because no amount of money will turn 10 homes into enough roofs for >10 households. Only building an >11th home will do that. You can make six figures and be in the top ~20% of wage earners and incapable of affording rent within a reasonable commute shed. Getting a pay raise won't really alter that, or, if it does, at best it just displaces someone else from Lake Woebegone

    It is absolutely affordability and not availability. There are more homes than homeless. Yes even in desirable areas. Link for San Francisco https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/61000-homes-are-empty-in-san-francisco-report/

  • Options
    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    What I would do:
    1. Federal zoning laws that make sense. This is a particular problem with the US system, other places have mixed zoning with less issue. Suburbs are artificial constructions for rich people.
    2. Unused property should not be a way to store wealth, and it has to be heavily taxed until it isn't. Either something is occupied and being used, or you have to pay the value of the propierty each year, to put an example. Use it or lose it.
    3. AirBnB and it's ilk in specific are abominations that only serve to let slumlords dodge laws. If they are to exist, there needs to be heavy regulation. A lot of places are just banning them outright and can't blame them.
    4. Building more housing, obviously.

    Housing is a complicated problem that has to be attacked in multiple sides.

  • Options
    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    A GDST about homelessness.

    From my uneducated perspective there are three causes:

    1) Not enough money
    2) Mental illness
    3) Drug abuse

    Let's discuss here instead of in the SCOTUS thread.

    The housing affordability crisis is a housing crisis, not an affordability crisis. The issue isn't a lack of money, it's a lack of housing. Because no amount of money will turn 10 homes into enough roofs for >10 households. Only building an >11th home will do that. You can make six figures and be in the top ~20% of wage earners and incapable of affording rent within a reasonable commute shed. Getting a pay raise won't really alter that, or, if it does, at best it just displaces someone else from Lake Woebegone

    It is absolutely affordability and not availability. There are more homes than homeless. Yes even in desirable areas. Link for San Francisco https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/61000-homes-are-empty-in-san-francisco-report/

    "Vacation homes" means the issue is still availability.

  • Options
    lutefisklutefisk Registered User regular
    the number one predictor of the homeless rate in a given municipality is

    you'll never guess

    drum roll please

    ...

    it's housing prices.

  • Options
    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Housing prices go up when housing is scarce.

  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    A GDST about homelessness.

    From my uneducated perspective there are three causes:

    1) Not enough money
    2) Mental illness
    3) Drug abuse

    Let's discuss here instead of in the SCOTUS thread.

    The housing affordability crisis is a housing crisis, not an affordability crisis. The issue isn't a lack of money, it's a lack of housing. Because no amount of money will turn 10 homes into enough roofs for >10 households. Only building an >11th home will do that. You can make six figures and be in the top ~20% of wage earners and incapable of affording rent within a reasonable commute shed. Getting a pay raise won't really alter that, or, if it does, at best it just displaces someone else from Lake Woebegone

    It is absolutely affordability and not availability. There are more homes than homeless. Yes even in desirable areas. Link for San Francisco https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/61000-homes-are-empty-in-san-francisco-report/

    "Vacation homes" means the issue is still availability.

    Not at all. Those only happen because we have such a wealth disparity that it can, and no regulations against it. We have the houses. Someone having a second house is not a fraction as important as a first one.

  • Options
    TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    Does the US definition of homeless differentiate between people living on the street and people living in temporary shelters?

    When I saw this thread, I did quick google - prepared to come in here and act all high and mighty as a European about how this is much less of a problem over here (Germany).

    The numbers tell a different story.

    In 2022, Germany had 50.000 people living on the street.
    Overall, it counted somewhere around 600.000 people without housing. Meaning they live in shelters, with friends and the like.

    Google (and the beginning of that Connover video) tell me, the US currently has around the same absolute number of homeless people. 600.000-ish.

    Given that the US is 4 times the population size of Germany (330 vs. 82 million), this says it is a bigger problem in Germany, if we have the same people without homes. Sure, we count refugees among the homeless as well, but still.

    That kinda threw me.

    Sorry, if this doesn't read as a coherent thought, it just really surprised me.

  • Options
    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    A GDST about homelessness.

    From my uneducated perspective there are three causes:

    1) Not enough money
    2) Mental illness
    3) Drug abuse

    Let's discuss here instead of in the SCOTUS thread.

    The housing affordability crisis is a housing crisis, not an affordability crisis. The issue isn't a lack of money, it's a lack of housing. Because no amount of money will turn 10 homes into enough roofs for >10 households. Only building an >11th home will do that. You can make six figures and be in the top ~20% of wage earners and incapable of affording rent within a reasonable commute shed. Getting a pay raise won't really alter that, or, if it does, at best it just displaces someone else from Lake Woebegone

    It is absolutely affordability and not availability. There are more homes than homeless. Yes even in desirable areas. Link for San Francisco https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/61000-homes-are-empty-in-san-francisco-report/

    "Vacation homes" means the issue is still availability.

    Not at all. Those only happen because we have such a wealth disparity that it can, and no regulations against it. We have the houses. Someone having a second house is not a fraction as important as a first one.

    Okay.

    But those vacation homes are not available.

  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    A GDST about homelessness.

    From my uneducated perspective there are three causes:

    1) Not enough money
    2) Mental illness
    3) Drug abuse

    Let's discuss here instead of in the SCOTUS thread.

    The housing affordability crisis is a housing crisis, not an affordability crisis. The issue isn't a lack of money, it's a lack of housing. Because no amount of money will turn 10 homes into enough roofs for >10 households. Only building an >11th home will do that. You can make six figures and be in the top ~20% of wage earners and incapable of affording rent within a reasonable commute shed. Getting a pay raise won't really alter that, or, if it does, at best it just displaces someone else from Lake Woebegone

    It is absolutely affordability and not availability. There are more homes than homeless. Yes even in desirable areas. Link for San Francisco https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/61000-homes-are-empty-in-san-francisco-report/

    "Vacation homes" means the issue is still availability.

    Not at all. Those only happen because we have such a wealth disparity that it can, and no regulations against it. We have the houses. Someone having a second house is not a fraction as important as a first one.

    Okay.

    But those vacation homes are not available.

    So tax non-primary residencies at such an obscene rate they become available.

  • Options
    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    A GDST about homelessness.

    From my uneducated perspective there are three causes:

    1) Not enough money
    2) Mental illness
    3) Drug abuse

    Let's discuss here instead of in the SCOTUS thread.

    The housing affordability crisis is a housing crisis, not an affordability crisis. The issue isn't a lack of money, it's a lack of housing. Because no amount of money will turn 10 homes into enough roofs for >10 households. Only building an >11th home will do that. You can make six figures and be in the top ~20% of wage earners and incapable of affording rent within a reasonable commute shed. Getting a pay raise won't really alter that, or, if it does, at best it just displaces someone else from Lake Woebegone

    It is absolutely affordability and not availability. There are more homes than homeless. Yes even in desirable areas. Link for San Francisco https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/61000-homes-are-empty-in-san-francisco-report/

    "Vacation homes" means the issue is still availability.

    Not at all. Those only happen because we have such a wealth disparity that it can, and no regulations against it. We have the houses. Someone having a second house is not a fraction as important as a first one.

    Okay.

    But those vacation homes are not available.

    So tax non-primary residencies at such an obscene rate they become available.

    Totally. Or make vacation homes illegal and confiscate them. In the meantime, though.

  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    Does the US definition of homeless differentiate between people living on the street and people living in temporary shelters?

    When I saw this thread, I did quick google - prepared to come in here and act all high and mighty as a European about how this is much less of a problem over here (Germany).

    The numbers tell a different story.

    In 2022, Germany had 50.000 people living on the street.
    Overall, it counted somewhere around 600.000 people without housing. Meaning they live in shelters, with friends and the like.

    Google (and the beginning of that Connover video) tell me, the US currently has around the same absolute number of homeless people. 600.000-ish.

    Given that the US is 4 times the population size of Germany (330 vs. 82 million), this says it is a bigger problem in Germany, if we have the same people without homes. Sure, we count refugees among the homeless as well, but still.

    That kinda threw me.

    Sorry, if this doesn't read as a coherent thought, it just really surprised me.

    There are generally different terms, people without shelter are unsheltered homeless/ sleeping rough, but the HUD Point in Time census counts both sheltered and unsheltered as homeless due to shelters not qualifying as a fixed, regular residence.

    https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/ahar/2023-ahar-part-1-pit-estimates-of-homelessness-in-the-us.html

    They go into definitions in the 'about this report'

  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    A GDST about homelessness.

    From my uneducated perspective there are three causes:

    1) Not enough money
    2) Mental illness
    3) Drug abuse

    Let's discuss here instead of in the SCOTUS thread.

    The housing affordability crisis is a housing crisis, not an affordability crisis. The issue isn't a lack of money, it's a lack of housing. Because no amount of money will turn 10 homes into enough roofs for >10 households. Only building an >11th home will do that. You can make six figures and be in the top ~20% of wage earners and incapable of affording rent within a reasonable commute shed. Getting a pay raise won't really alter that, or, if it does, at best it just displaces someone else from Lake Woebegone

    It is absolutely affordability and not availability. There are more homes than homeless. Yes even in desirable areas. Link for San Francisco https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/61000-homes-are-empty-in-san-francisco-report/

    "Vacation homes" means the issue is still availability.

    Not at all. Those only happen because we have such a wealth disparity that it can, and no regulations against it. We have the houses. Someone having a second house is not a fraction as important as a first one.

    Okay.

    But those vacation homes are not available.

    So tax non-primary residencies at such an obscene rate they become available.

    Totally. Or make vacation homes illegal and confiscate them. In the meantime, though.

    In the meantime pass those laws. Because the housing is available. No one is living in it.

  • Options
    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    A GDST about homelessness.

    From my uneducated perspective there are three causes:

    1) Not enough money
    2) Mental illness
    3) Drug abuse

    Let's discuss here instead of in the SCOTUS thread.

    The housing affordability crisis is a housing crisis, not an affordability crisis. The issue isn't a lack of money, it's a lack of housing. Because no amount of money will turn 10 homes into enough roofs for >10 households. Only building an >11th home will do that. You can make six figures and be in the top ~20% of wage earners and incapable of affording rent within a reasonable commute shed. Getting a pay raise won't really alter that, or, if it does, at best it just displaces someone else from Lake Woebegone

    It is absolutely affordability and not availability. There are more homes than homeless. Yes even in desirable areas. Link for San Francisco https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/61000-homes-are-empty-in-san-francisco-report/

    "Vacation homes" means the issue is still availability.

    Not at all. Those only happen because we have such a wealth disparity that it can, and no regulations against it. We have the houses. Someone having a second house is not a fraction as important as a first one.

    Okay.

    But those vacation homes are not available.

    So tax non-primary residencies at such an obscene rate they become available.

    Totally. Or make vacation homes illegal and confiscate them. In the meantime, though.

    In the meantime pass those laws. Because the housing is available. No one is living in it.

    :|

    Or make home ownership illegal and require people to share their living spaces as designated by government census.

    But until that happens, it's availability.

  • Options
    minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field njRegistered User regular
    in the meantime, there are still an absurd number of homes that are sitting vacant, mostly owned by private equity investment firms.

    Something like 10-13% (depending on your source) of homes in the US are vacant. Vacation homes account for around 4-7% of homes. That's still a staggering number of homes that are well and truly vacant.

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    edited June 28
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    A GDST about homelessness.

    From my uneducated perspective there are three causes:

    1) Not enough money
    2) Mental illness
    3) Drug abuse

    Let's discuss here instead of in the SCOTUS thread.

    The housing affordability crisis is a housing crisis, not an affordability crisis. The issue isn't a lack of money, it's a lack of housing. Because no amount of money will turn 10 homes into enough roofs for >10 households. Only building an >11th home will do that. You can make six figures and be in the top ~20% of wage earners and incapable of affording rent within a reasonable commute shed. Getting a pay raise won't really alter that, or, if it does, at best it just displaces someone else from Lake Woebegone

    It is absolutely affordability and not availability. There are more homes than homeless. Yes even in desirable areas. Link for San Francisco https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/61000-homes-are-empty-in-san-francisco-report/

    "Vacation homes" means the issue is still availability.

    Not at all. Those only happen because we have such a wealth disparity that it can, and no regulations against it. We have the houses. Someone having a second house is not a fraction as important as a first one.

    Okay.

    But those vacation homes are not available.

    So tax non-primary residencies at such an obscene rate they become available.

    Totally. Or make vacation homes illegal and confiscate them. In the meantime, though.

    In the meantime pass those laws. Because the housing is available. No one is living in it.

    :|

    Or make home ownership illegal and require people to share their living spaces as designated by government census.

    But until that happens, it's availability.

    Incorrect. It is affordablility. Build more homes and more wealthy people will flock to desirable areas that leave the poorest still vulnerable. 61,000 houses are currently available to house people. Building more doesn't solve the problem.

    Edit: Somebody else owns these and doesn't want you to live there is a problem no matter how many houses you have.

    Gnizmo on
  • Options
    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    I would argue that the vast majority of the unhoused around where I live are not there but for the lack of jobs and affordable housing. They are not mentally well and need help.

    We can still blame privatization and capitalism for this - the lack of facilities to provide care and rehabilitation to people in need is a root issue when it comes to getting these folks off the streets and into shelter.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • Options
    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Two of my friends moved away in 2020, both sold their homes to investment firms out of Cali. They sold instantly, they were allowed to move out "whenever" and they didn't even really need to clean their houses or anything. It didn't matter.

    Those homes did not get flipped or re-sold and nobody's moved into them. They're not even for sale, they're just being held like trading cards.

    Anecdotal, I know, but this sort of shit needs to be flatly fucking illegal and these firms should have to say bye bye to all their assets. Turn all of their assets into low-income housing. All of them.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    I would argue that the vast majority of the unhoused around where I live are not there but for the lack of jobs and affordable housing. They are not mentally well and need help.

    We can still blame privatization and capitalism for this - the lack of facilities to provide care and rehabilitation to people in need is a root issue when it comes to getting these folks off the streets and into shelter.

    I would argue that flies in the face of all the data we have and isn't based on anything concrete. Making decisions based on vibes doesn't help anyone.

  • Options
    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    I would argue that the vast majority of the unhoused around where I live are not there but for the lack of jobs and affordable housing. They are not mentally well and need help.

    We can still blame privatization and capitalism for this - the lack of facilities to provide care and rehabilitation to people in need is a root issue when it comes to getting these folks off the streets and into shelter.

    Is housing cheap where you live?

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • Options
    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    in the meantime, there are still an absurd number of homes that are sitting vacant, mostly owned by private equity investment firms.

    Something like 10-13% (depending on your source) of homes in the US are vacant. Vacation homes account for around 4-7% of homes. That's still a staggering number of homes that are well and truly vacant.

    The last I remember seeing actual analysis of this once you start accounting for things that are temporarily vacant in between being sold and being bought (or rented), stuff that is being renovated, and so on for all the different reasons things are vacant, it actual leaves a very negligible number of homes that are actually "vacant" in a meaningful sense of this is just sitting there empty because no one wants to pay the asking price for it or it.

    Don't remember exactly which city it was, but I recall one actually implementing a vacancy tax and it accomplished basically nothing in terms of increasing housing or reducing prices.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • Options
    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    People usually get the order of operations wrong when it comes to homelessness and mental health, particularly when they're running off some random encounters with homeless people and confusing chronic exhaustion and hunger for schizophrenia.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • Options
    PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    The #1 solution to homelessness is to build more housing. Its not the only solution, but its the most important for getting from point A to point B. It has downstream effects too, if you have more housing you can move the "at-risk" homeless into homes and suddenly the judicial and social support systems necessary to help the dire "tragic meth addict screaming on the corner" homeless aren't so overwhelmed.

    Going after things like RealPage is a good idea too. That's kind of secondary to building more housing since the reason scams like RealPage work is due to housing limitations, but monopolistic pricing is bad and the DOJ should burn that entire business entity to the ground and salt the earth it was built on.

    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • Options
    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    I would argue that the vast majority of the unhoused around where I live are not there but for the lack of jobs and affordable housing. They are not mentally well and need help.

    We can still blame privatization and capitalism for this - the lack of facilities to provide care and rehabilitation to people in need is a root issue when it comes to getting these folks off the streets and into shelter.

    Is housing cheap where you live?

    Obviously no!

    But where I live I avoid a stretch of 6th Ave where the guy who paints with his feces hangs out in front of the antique shop, the woman who screams at everyone going by that they have taken her bags and occasionally gets into fights with them…

    Unhoused is a pretty big bucket, and I know there are a bunch of folks who sneak sleeping in their office or car and take showers at the planet fitness right there alongside the folks on the street mentioned earlier, and they are all part of that one number, so I will acquiesce that not everyone falls into the profile I am giving.

    But the on the street, set up camp folks in NYC are almost to a person not doing well mentally. And the police are simply not equipped to deal with this (not that I want them to be the tool used).

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    The #1 solution to homelessness is to build more housing. Its not the only solution, but its the most important for getting from point A to point B. It has downstream effects too, if you have more housing you can move the "at-risk" homeless into homes and suddenly the judicial and social support systems necessary to help the dire "tragic meth addict screaming on the corner" homeless aren't so overwhelmed.

    Going after things like RealPage is a good idea too. That's kind of secondary to building more housing since the reason scams like RealPage work is due to housing limitations, but monopolistic pricing is bad and the DOJ should burn that entire business entity to the ground and salt the earth it was built on.

    Building more homes on its own does not solve the problem. The housing built is not meant to alleviate the problem and so never does.

  • Options
    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    I would argue that the vast majority of the unhoused around where I live are not there but for the lack of jobs and affordable housing. They are not mentally well and need help.

    We can still blame privatization and capitalism for this - the lack of facilities to provide care and rehabilitation to people in need is a root issue when it comes to getting these folks off the streets and into shelter.

    Is housing cheap where you live?

    Obviously no!

    But where I live I avoid a stretch of 6th Ave where the guy who paints with his feces hangs out in front of the antique shop, the woman who screams at everyone going by that they have taken her bags and occasionally gets into fights with them…

    Unhoused is a pretty big bucket, and I know there are a bunch of folks who sneak sleeping in their office or car and take showers at the planet fitness right there alongside the folks on the street mentioned earlier, and they are all part of that one number, so I will acquiesce that not everyone falls into the profile I am giving.

    But the on the street, set up camp folks in NYC are almost to a person not doing well mentally. And the police are simply not equipped to deal with this (not that I want them to be the tool used).

    I mean this is perception bias, even as described here.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • Options
    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    edited June 28
    We need to provide the homeless with Shelter.

    Savannah used to have a compassionate system where the homeless had a tent city under a bridge. It was better than nothing, and the city provided job Johnny’s potable water and charities and social groups had a place to go to, to help.

    Is it a perfect solution? Absolutely not, but it was better than what happened after, which happened because rich fuckers built a bunch of million dollar houses and they could see the homeless camp so the police cleared it out and didn’t have a place for them, and it’s not like the homeless have a place to go.

    So now they are spread out. With homeless camps popping up all over and the mayor trying real hard to spin it as being his success and not “we cleared a homeless camp and they moved to another area.”

    zepherin on
  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    I would argue that the vast majority of the unhoused around where I live are not there but for the lack of jobs and affordable housing. They are not mentally well and need help.

    We can still blame privatization and capitalism for this - the lack of facilities to provide care and rehabilitation to people in need is a root issue when it comes to getting these folks off the streets and into shelter.

    Is housing cheap where you live?

    Obviously no!

    But where I live I avoid a stretch of 6th Ave where the guy who paints with his feces hangs out in front of the antique shop, the woman who screams at everyone going by that they have taken her bags and occasionally gets into fights with them…

    Unhoused is a pretty big bucket, and I know there are a bunch of folks who sneak sleeping in their office or car and take showers at the planet fitness right there alongside the folks on the street mentioned earlier, and they are all part of that one number, so I will acquiesce that not everyone falls into the profile I am giving.

    But the on the street, set up camp folks in NYC are almost to a person not doing well mentally. And the police are simply not equipped to deal with this (not that I want them to be the tool used).

    One of the primary ways to get to be left alone when you have no safe place to go is seem goose level aggressive. There is a reason so many people are frightened of them despite their lack of ability to really hurt people usually. You will also have people cover themselves in shit and piss because smelling bad will ward of other as well. You are trying to judge people based on survival strategies you don't understand.

    Take the woman who screams at people for taking her bag. If that works even once a month that his a huge windfall for her. So yeah she tries it. Mostly it doesn't work. Mostly it makes her look unhinged and not someone to fuck with. Maybe it is because she is unwell. Maybe it is because it is a deliberate strategy. Either way if it is only 2 people it is not representative of anything.

  • Options
    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited June 28
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    I would argue that the vast majority of the unhoused around where I live are not there but for the lack of jobs and affordable housing. They are not mentally well and need help.

    We can still blame privatization and capitalism for this - the lack of facilities to provide care and rehabilitation to people in need is a root issue when it comes to getting these folks off the streets and into shelter.

    I would argue that flies in the face of all the data we have and isn't based on anything concrete. Making decisions based on vibes doesn't help anyone.
    While the data definitely tells us a story that the vast majority of the unhoused (at least in California, where I live... YMMV based on where you live) do not have untreated mental illness* or drug problems, the small fraction that do have mental illness or drug use are the most visible and often used to scapegoat the rest (mostly families trying to get by). When someone complains about unhoused people in their backyard, it's often due to poor personal interactions with this smaller population, which sticks out more in people's minds than the image of a single mom and daughter living out of a car (who by and large try to stay out of the way and aren't confrontational). Unfortunately, the policies that are ineffectually used to try to deal with the small fraction of mental illness/drug use also hit all people who are unhoused.

    Two things can be true here. There needs to be policy overhauls and resources to help the unhoused, but there will be no magic bullet that will help everyone. I think it is important to implement resources anyway, and fix the bigger issue of people living on the streets because housing is out of their means, and then maybe work on the issue of mental health/drug use separately (even later), but unfortunately most people conflate the two because there was that one time they were accosted by a dude randomly on the street. Both problems need solutions!

    * The caveat here is that the majority of the unhoused DO report severe anxiety or depression! But neither leads to hostile interactions with other people on the street.

    Hahnsoo1 on
    8i1dt37buh2m.png
  • Options
    Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited June 28
    It can drive someone to madness, falling through the cracks in our society to the point where shelter is no longer an option for them. If not getting a promotion or being laid off is enough to push someone into a depressive fit or a nervous break down, how would not having a pot to piss in effect one's emotional or mental fortitude.

    People blame having mental illness for people ending up homeless, but the truth is a society where one can become homeless can easily break someone who otherwise would be fine. And drug abuse? Well, again if you've hit rock bottom how could any empathetic person judge someone for taking some form of a escape from the hellhole that is being failed by our capitalist oligarchy?

    People become homeless because capitalism is bad.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • Options
    A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    Ok, when we get to "he's covering himself with shit and jacking off as a self defense method" you have completely lost me.

    Everything else so far, I'm in agreement with re: causes, conditions etc

    vm8gvf5p7gqi.jpg
    Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Sign In or Register to comment.