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Manual Transmission
Menace
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regular
So I just bought my first car this morning and to reduce costs and what-have-you I ended up going with manual transmission.
Now, before I test-drove this car I had never driven anything other than automatic.
So I'm stalling at lights and such fairly regularly right now, though if I don't feel rushed by traffic I usually do fine.
But I'm looking for some tips and advice to get me started, on any elements of driving sticks. Links would also be helpful.
Now, before I test-drove this car I had never driven anything other than automatic.
So I'm stalling at lights and such fairly regularly right now, though if I don't feel rushed by traffic I usually do fine.
But I'm looking for some tips and advice to get me started, on any elements of driving sticks. Links would also be helpful.
Menace on
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That's ballsy. Very ballsy. You will probably fuck up your clutch pretty quick.
I'm mostly only fucking up when I feel pressure to go fast from the get-go, because then I let the clutch out too fast and stall.
I'm basically looking for advice on tricks or whatever that may have helped some of you guys out in the past.
DON'T RIDE THE GODDAMN CLUTCH.
Otherwise, you should be okay. Try to make it a habit to downshift as much as possible, as in, 4-3-2-1 stop. You could just throw it in neutral and slow down, but Mr. Transmission might get sick, and in an emergency you might need the car in gear for the acceleration power to avoid something, etc.
Also, be gentle. Don't push the RPM.
EDIT: Practice a lot on going up hills. You'll get the hang of the clutch pretty quickly then. Oh, and don't "snap" it back, ease her out so the transmission can catch up to the engine speed.
I just takes practice, learning to easy out the clutch and reving the engine will start to come naturally.
As a beginner, it's going to be much easier for you to ease into everything. Don't worry about shifting quickly or accelerating quickly, worry about doing it cleanly.
Find a huge abandoned parking lot somewhere and practice going from a stop, shifting from first to second, slow down and shift back to first, then come to a stop. Rinse and repeat.
Also, make sure that you have the clutch depressed fully before you shift gears every time, or you will damage your clutch.
If it sounds like the engine is crying, screaming, weeping or tearing itself apart, react.
t nholder: Really? o_O I've learned that if you gotta stop, you can just stop without first having to shift back. As long as you don't accelerate in 4th gear while you're going 20, you'll be fine. ^^
Don't worry you will get the feel for it soon enough.
Gir: I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me.
I was sitting in the drive-thru at McDonalds, which is a slight uphill incline, and it was a bitch, but I think I mostly have the hold of it
You don't have to downshift, but it's a recommended practice.
Honestly? If you've reached the point where you can drive the car, but fuck up when pressured, you just need some practice.
But yeah, don't ride the clutch, that leads to expensive repairs, and don't get into the habit of coasting in neutral (my driving instructor used to say: "If you're not in gear while moving, you're not in control of the car."). Those are both bad habits that it's easy to get into if you haven't had any instruction (though it sounds like you have).
EDIT:
Some gearboxes really don't like it if you downshift from second to first, usually if first is a non-synchromesh gear. I know my Nissan won't do it unless you match the revs. If you're coming to a stop, you can usually leave it in second, and disengage the clutch for the last couple of metres.
Like I said, I know it will come in time, I'm just seeing if I can find anything that the manual wouldn't have in it.
Thanks for all the advice thus far guys.
And I stalled a lot at first, too. It gets easier with time.
"Riding the Clutch" is when you rest your foot against the pedal as you're driving, which can partially engage the clutch and mess with your transmission. All of the wear you're going to get on your clutch will come from engaging and disengaging it.
Having the clutch fully depressed, though, is not necessarily a bad thing, provided you're coming out of it into drive at the proper gear.
Bring the car to a complete stop on a flat surface so that when you take your foot off the break it doesn't roll in either direction.
Take your foot off the gas pedal, put the clutch down and shift it into first gear.
Now slowly, very slowly, ease the clutch up. You'll feel it start to engage and the car will begin rolling forward. Go too far and the car will stall.
Figure out about where you can get the clutch to in order to do that.
Now, from a stop, get the car moving slowly by using the clutch...and now you can slowly add the gas. What you're looking for is an increase in motion when the car is no longer riding the clutch. Think of it as a sweet spot.
Once at that spot..listen for the engine and feel with your feet. Take note of what it sounds like and the position of your feet.
I don't recommend this as the way to always get your car moving from a stop. You'll chew threw clutches like crazy. However, this will help you figure out what to do in reverse. By that I mean you can press the gas and THEN let the clutch out.
It's just a more controlled and less violent way of learning it the "gas then clutch" way. Seems to work on those that I've taught.
Good luck.
I didn't really think about that. Practicing downshifting was the important thing there, so I guess you can change that to second and third gear to prevent engine damage.
Hm, I'll have to remember that, then.
How the hell would going to neutral instead of downshifting hurt the transmission? I hardly ever downshift (unless I need the extra deceleration, which is incredibly rare) and my transmission is fine.
'98 900se Saab 2.0, for the record, if that means anything.
Yeah, I kind of have my foot hovering there right now because I always want to be ready in case I have to do something, but that's more of a noobie/wuss thing. I'm careful not to put any pressure and I pull my foot away if I notice I'm doing it.
I will try to keep it more in mind.
Eventually your left foot will get in the habit of depressing the clutch automatically.
Additionally, if you really have to stop, fuck the clutch and just stomp on the brakes. The car will stall and you may even damage your clutch and/or transmission, but it beats hitting some kid.
My first few days learning, I got the hang of it but at the expense of the clutch.
After that, though, I was pretty much golden. I even tried a friend's manual after the truck had been dead for a year and was able to pick it up again pretty quick. What I always did was when I was nervous or on a spot that I really needed to not screw up, I'd "ride the clutch" when starting out. It's much easier to prevent yourself from stalling if you're not fully disengaging the clutch, or if you find out what point it stalls at and simply give it more gas when you know your foot is at that point.
It's a newbie way to learn where that point is, and eventually you kind of figure out how much gas you need and how much the clutch should be depressed, but having the clutch depressed a little more than it should be when you're first learning to shift is how I learned, and it really helped with the whole confidence thing.
It will wear your clutch down faster than shifting perfectly, but as long as you don't keep it depressed while actually driving it shouldn't be too bad. Especially since you're just starting out.
And yeah, I never shifted down to first -- 2nd to neutral (or 3rd to neutral). On highways, I'd often shift from neutral to 2nd anyway.
One thing I wish all cars had that was a wonderful feature in my Subaru Legacy was an auto-lock break on hills. If you came to a complete stop facing uphill and had the clutch all the way engaged, it would lock the breaks so you could effectively remove your foot from the break and move it to the gas without having to worry about rolling backwards, and release as soon as you let up on the clutch. Brilliant, and I can't understand why it isn't a feature on all cars.
One question I have about MTs - the idea of "riding the clutch" has never been entirely clear to me. I understand it is damaging to apply slight pressure to the clutch while driving, but what about depressing it all the way to use as neutral, to coast around corners or down hills or whatever?
Also, I just got a Mazda Tribute a few months ago, and I've noticed that, every once in a while, when I'm at a stop and begin moving forward in first gear, the engine will sometimes shudder with a BOM BOM BOM BOM BOM BOM sound, like I'm forcing it to do something I shouldn't, but I can never figure out what I'm doing to cause it, as it always feels exactly like every other start I've done.
And Menace, the trick is just to practice. Keep at it, soon enough you'll feel perfectly natural at it and learn to enjoy the MT. I find automatics painfully boring to drive any more. But a couple things to remember - never start from a dead stop in anything but first gear, and when you park on a hill always keep the vehicle in gear when you shut it off, and let shut itself off completely before releasing the clutch. If you're facing uphill, keep your wheels turned away from the curb and put it in first gear, to act as a secondary parking break. If you're facing downhill, aim the wheels toward the curb and put it in reverse. Same reason.
That's what I always thought. The thing is, though, that I've had two cars where the clutch went out. Then again, each of them had over 150,000 miles. The Subaru actually had 235,000 when it finally died. So I don't think it was bad driving that was the cause, but rather just old age.
I dunno, my owners manual said not to do that. It just doesn't seem nice. Brakes are cheaper than a new engine. And how is being in neutral bad? You're in...uh... neutral. Everything is disengaged. Here's my (very)bad advice:
Shift one gear lower than you think you need. Like you can either hit the middle of 2nd or the bottom of 3rd. Hit 2nd, run it up, and then hit the middle of 3rd.
It's time to shift when your engine's all loud but you don't seem to be going faster. I ain't got naw tach anyway.
I learned on hills by saying fuck it and over-reving before letting up on the clutch until I got the hang of it. Used tires are cheep and stalling out sucks.
Just drive around. I learned how to drive a stick as a delivery driver in a truck with no bed. Oh, you'll get good. Just play around with it. You really ain't gonna break it...at least, not right away.
Oh wow, it's almost like a worthless post without a shred of help or advice. Shut up.
Also the clutch on a brand new car is going to be pretty resilient. There's no reason to expect it to fail particularly early.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Useful tip though: Drop into neutral when braking. You'll significantly reduce your stopping distance, and it's not like it's hard to shift back into gear quickly once the car is already moving, should you have any reason to wish to accelerate. It's easy on the engine because you're not forgetting to shift out of 4th until you're down to 10 mph and it's chugging hard and ready to stall, and it's easy on you because there's less to keep track of, and like I said, it cuts your stopping distance and reduces wear on your brakes.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
A clutch lasting longer than 100k miles is exceptional. If the car is the driver's first, a clutch on a MT probably will not last longer than 75k - 80k miles.
I don't use my handbrake at lights. Is that what you're suggesting is a normal thing to do, or are you just describing this as a learning excercise
The thing I did when I was starting out was I just let the clutch out really slowly, with the gas pedal down just a tiny bit. It feels like pushing it down like an inch, then easing off the clutch. You'll find the car starts moving forward, and then you can put more pressure on the gas.
But practice this in a parking lot thoroughly. Trust me on that.
And if you're getting stressed out and struggling with it, just stop. Turn off the engine, count to three, and then start over. It doesn't matter if people start honking, not fucking up your car because you were in a panic is a little more important.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Most handbrakes (all that I've ever seen) don't activate the brake lights. I don't know where you live, but I could see some insurance trouble if your brake lights aren't on and you get rear ended.
Of course, that's not an issue where I live, but I'm just saying. I've heard some nightmare stories about privatized insurance.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
One more quick, perhaps stupid question:
If I stall out at a light/stop sign/whatever while I'm in first, do I have to go back into neutral to start the car again or can I just depress the clutch and start it while still in first?
This was never made clear to me.
You don't need to be in neutral to start the car. Most cars won't even let you start the vehicle unless you have the clutch pedal down. With the clutch to the floor you are effectlively in neutral already.
Just an FYI
If you have to rev match to achieve a downshift this is an *awful* idea at first. Rev-matching downshifts is incredibly difficult without a feel for the car. Starting out, when you have to stop, throw it in neutral and use the brakes. Learn to rev-match downshifts after you can drive the car in traffic. Also, like some others have said, shifting down to 1st can be a Bad Thing (tm). Try it once or twice, but if you find it difficult for the car or yourself, dont do it as that shift will damage your clutch the most. Youll know if the car doesnt like it if it is difficult to get the transmission to easily go from 2nd to 1st.
Hills: Practice is key. Being able to get the car started quickly from a stop will help with this somewhat, as you will do clutch in, brake to gas and clutch out faster.
Parking: you are supposed to leave the wheels turned *into* the curb no matter how you park on a hill. The reasoning being that if the car starts to move, it will likely run into the curb quickly and the curb will help stop / slow the car before it can run out into traffic and cause damage. Also, be aware, many smaller / commuter type engines may lack the compression to hold the vehicle in place on a steep enough grade and it will slowly and jerkily drift forwards backwards. If you can, always use the emergency brake.
If you are ever unsure as to what to do, clutch in. This will let the engine and tansmission / wheels of the car spin at different speeds without damaging either of them. Once you have an idea of what to do get in the appropriate gear and set off again, just dont pop the clutch if you dont have to. Dont feel bad about riding the clutch at first just dont make a habit of it. Clutches are designed to be used up and a clutch job is much cheaper than a rebuild of an engine or transmission.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH