Or it could be because the OP specifically focuses on the racial side of the slur.
Though you can keep insulting me if you'd like.
To be fair, you brought up a LOT of arguments he never did.
But hey, let's just blame Glyph for all of your arguments. That's mature.
All of my arguments focused on the racial elements of the insult, as per the OP, even if I did introduce new arguments to supplement what was previously mentioned. You can read into the rest of it whatever your sad little mind wants.
Actually, fuck that.
You've been baiting me throughout this entire discussion by twisting my words, implying that I'm racist, and now saying that I'm also possibly sexist, or at least blinded to misogynistic undertones of the slur due to my being Asian. Frankly, I'm sick of it and I'm calling you out on your shit. If you're going to insinuate these things, then come out and say them. Don't be all snide and think you're witty. You're just being cowardly and relying on pile-on tactics without introducing anything of substance. Don't try to insult me by posting little side comments to people who agree with you. If you're going to insult me, then insult me to my face. Otherwise, stfu and gtfo.
In other news:
I got to see the film; it's a real POS. There is a lot of racial banter flying around, all chosen specifically to be as offensive as possible without crossing any significant lines. The comments of asian hooker (which happens twice) are essentially their pathetic way of trying to be insulting to asians while not displaying any kind of creativity. It's more pathetic than offensive; the best they can do throughout the entire movie is rehash tired stereotypes on all groups. So it tries to rouse a response but fails even at that.
Essentially, I just wanted to get the hell out of there. The dialogue was far less offensive than the rest of the stupidity that was happening on screen.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I never said you were sexist, and the racist thing was thrown around by pretty much everyone after your "I'm not racist, I have friends who are white!" line. So, it's really not just me. It seems to be a consensus.
And no, I never called you sexist. I merely implied you don't care because you're not a woman, but you did care because you were asian.
As for your opinion on the movie, you made it pretty clear you thought this was some "white male supremacy crap" from the start, so I'm really not shocked that you found "a lot of racial banter" where I found "maybe one phrase that I guess could possibly be racist, I suppose."
You do realize that archetypes/stereotypes are standard, rather than exceptional, in most forms of media, yes?
Did you also hate PoC? Because that had tons of racism.
PoC? Not sure what that is.
Also, I'm fine with racist dialogue/themes if they're used to inform, not denigrate.
This was just exploitation, more than anything, reinforcing the status quo and not subverting anything.
Also, archetypes/stereotypes change over time. We should be trying to do away with the ones that we find repugnant. It's happened before (we don't see Breakfast at Tiffany's type characters anymore, as one example) and there's no reason why we should just sit pat and say "well, they're just a stereotype, nothing to be done."
Sans, calm down for a second. We could get into a whole thing about the genealogical history of Asian stereotypes in Western media, but unless the overall discussion follows in that particular direction any such backtracking runs the risk of oversimplifying the issue if it doesn't have other perspectives weighing in. Different words affect people in different ways and I want to know more about that.
jungleroomx isn't the first person to feel that oversensitivity has become a problem. So to him I would pose the question, when does something deserve to be taken offensively? The insult ought to be in the intent as well as the reaction, should it not? I called a friend of mine "that Jew" once and she exploded on me. I tried to ask her what was wrong, since to me it was no different than saying "that Buddhist" or "that Christian," since she is Jewish and that is the appropriate noun. But she took it as a slur, regardless of my intent.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited July 2007
You want racist dialogue/themes in a fucking Die Hard movie to inform?
Pirates of the Caribbean. The whole damned thing was stereotype after stereotype, racist or otherwise. If you made a drinking game out of it, you would DIE.
Repugnant?
What is repugnant about a woman who can kick the shit out of people, and is the most physically powerful and dangerous person in the entire film?
Or do you mean "olol A white cop is racist?"
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Pirates of the Caribbean. The whole damned thing was stereotype after stereotype, racist or otherwise. If you made a drinking game out of it, you would DIE.
Repugnant?
What is repugnant about a woman who can kick the shit out of people, and is the most physically powerful and dangerous person in the entire film?
Or do you mean "olol A white cop is racist?"
You know, one of the biggest reasons racism is still alive and well is the blatant oversensitivity to it.
What I'm getting out of this thread is that the phrase "Asian hooker" is bad because:
1. It's improper to point out someones race in an insulting manner (even though in this case it was just a clarification. It's a "Yeah, I'm talkin to you" type thing).
2. It's bad to call a girl a demeaning name, because girls never do anything wrong and to insult them means you're a bigot.
Due to these 2 things, I can only conclude the following:
The ability to turn a mindless action flick into a microcosm of modern society's gender and racial ails is some seriously sad shit.
I never said you were sexist, and the racist thing was thrown around by pretty much everyone after your "I'm not racist, I have friends who are white!" line. So, it's really not just me. It seems to be a consensus.
And no, I never called you sexist. I merely implied you don't care because you're not a woman, but you did care because you were asian.
As for your opinion on the movie, you made it pretty clear you thought this was some "white male supremacy crap" from the start, so I'm really not shocked that you found "a lot of racial banter" where I found "maybe one phrase that I guess could possibly be racist, I suppose."
Well, you implied that I was anti-white people so I made it clear that I was raised in a white household. That pretty much should have made it obvious that it would be nearly impossible for me to be racist against white people, family being important and all. So no, I don't really see the parallels between "I have black friends!" and "My adopted parents and extended family are all white." Maybe you do, but then again, unless you grew up in a multiracial family, it's hard to understand.
I resent the implication that I don't care; I do care, I simply didn't address it because it was not part of the OP. There's no other reason to imply such a thing unless you were deliberately trying to insult me.
Uh.........there are like two dozen moments when racial language is used or referenced. They're not really racist, per se, they're more tired insults thrown around because they can't think of anything better to say. Instead of actually riffing on the character's flaws and/or quirks, they're more like "He's a French guy! Let's make fun of that! Oh, and she's an asian chick! Let's make fun of that!"
As for the rest, it was advertised as being far more pro-blue collar America than it really was. It tried to take the patriotism angle by updating with the trappings of an anti-terror agenda, but it's pretty much the same formula (albeit beaten to death by now) as the original films. It was essentially a string of ridiculous set-pieces tied together poorly by a convoluted, stupid plot.
At this point, I don't even care about the racial stuff. It was a shoddy movie, period, with or without the inane dialogue.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited July 2007
So you went into a Die Hard movie expecting what, exactly?
You know, one of the biggest reasons racism is still alive and well is the blatant oversensitivity to it.
What I'm getting out of this thread is that the phrase "Asian hooker" is bad because:
1. It's improper to point out someones race in an insulting manner (even though in this case it was just a clarification. It's a "Yeah, I'm talkin to you" type thing).
2. It's bad to call a girl a demeaning name, because girls never do anything wrong and to insult them means you're a bigot.
Due to these 2 things, I can only conclude the following:
The ability to turn a mindless action flick into a microcosm of modern society's gender and racial ails is some seriously sad shit.
Or because sexism, racism, and classism are uncomfortable subjects that most people want to avoid. Thus, the entire "color-blindness" bullshit. Talking about these issues is the only way to change them. Avoiding them simply buries the problems.
As for 1) It wasn't really clarification in this case. There wasn't anyone else around he was fighting or going to kill. It was chosen for a reason (probably the script writers were lazy and simply grabbed the easiest, most common insult floating around).
2) Depends on context, as usual. We choose insults for specific reasons and it is always good to examine those reasons and how we use the words. Calling a dude a bitch is completely different from calling a woman a bitch. We mean entirely different things with the same word, based on gender. No one is saying that women are perfect, simply that some insults can be misogynistic in context.
Btw, media is essentially a reflection of a society in a certain point in history. You can learn a lot about the US from examining action movies, or porn, or network television, etc etc.
I never said you were sexist, and the racist thing was thrown around by pretty much everyone after your "I'm not racist, I have friends who are white!" line. So, it's really not just me. It seems to be a consensus.
And no, I never called you sexist. I merely implied you don't care because you're not a woman, but you did care because you were asian.
As for your opinion on the movie, you made it pretty clear you thought this was some "white male supremacy crap" from the start, so I'm really not shocked that you found "a lot of racial banter" where I found "maybe one phrase that I guess could possibly be racist, I suppose."
Well, you implied that I was anti-white people so I made it clear that I was raised in a white household. That pretty much should have made it obvious that it would be nearly impossible for me to be racist against white people, family being important and all. So no, I don't really see the parallels between "I have black friends!" and "My adopted parents and extended family are all white." Maybe you do, but then again, unless you grew up in a multiracial family, it's hard to understand.
That doesn't mean that you basically said you weren't racist because you had white friends.
Almost verbatim, actually.
I resent the implication that I don't care; I do care, I simply didn't address it because it was not part of the OP. There's no other reason to imply such a thing unless you were deliberately trying to insult me.
We've been over this. We're discussing things the OP never even implied.
So stop blaming the OP for you not bringing it up sooner.
Uh.........there are like two dozen moments when racial language is used or referenced. They're not really racist, per se, they're more tired insults thrown around because they can't think of anything better to say. Instead of actually riffing on the character's flaws and/or quirks, they're more like "He's a French guy! Let's make fun of that! Oh, and she's an asian chick! Let's make fun of that!"
As for the rest, it was advertised as being far more pro-blue collar America than it really was. It tried to take the patriotism angle by updating with the trappings of an anti-terror agenda, but it's pretty much the same formula (albeit beaten to death by now) as the original films. It was essentially a string of ridiculous set-pieces tied together poorly by a convoluted, stupid plot.
At this point, I don't even care about the racial stuff. It was a shoddy movie, period, with or without the inane dialogue.
I saw the movie. Care to give me some sort of examples? Or is this just hypersensitivity at work?
"He told that guy to calm down because that guy is black and he clearly thinks all black people are irrational. This is so racist."
As for the "pro-Blue Collar" thing: What? Because the government and military wasn't a bunch of bumbling idiots who have no idea how the modern world works? The FBI, CIA, etc are fairly in touch in that regard. Seeing as they have to be.
So you went into a Die Hard movie expecting what, exactly?
I watched the other ones at parties with friends. I went to this one because of the thread (and cuz it was 3 bucks). I didn't expect much from the reviews and got even less.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Or because sexism, racism, and classism are uncomfortable subjects that most people want to avoid. Thus, the entire "color-blindness" bullshit. Talking about these issues is the only way to change them. Avoiding them simply buries the problems.
Yet McClaine calling her "ASIAN" is a fucking issue.
You know, one of the biggest reasons racism is still alive and well is the blatant oversensitivity to it.
Agreed. Being ABLE to take "You are what you are!" as an insult just enforces the idea that what you are is, in fact, bad. Personally, I'm a mongrel/crossbreed/mutt or whatever you want to call it. If someone called me a mutt, I would probably just start bragging about how awesome my ancestry is.
What I'm getting out of this thread is that the phrase "Asian hooker" is bad because:
1. It's improper to point out someones race in an insulting manner (even though in this case it was just a clarification. It's a "Yeah, I'm talkin to you" type thing).
Well, in this case I think he was trying to assert "You are different than me!" in a way that would make her defensive. He was assuming she had a complex about her race.
He was using racism as a tool, basically. It doesn't require that he be racist himself. I've been known to use the term "whitey," when I want to razz someone, even though I'm 7/8 Northern European by blood.
2. It's bad to call a girl a demeaning name, because girls never do anything wrong and to insult them means you're a bigot.
After all, women can't defend themselves because they are weak and need to be defended by a big strong man. You certainly should never hit girls, even if they are trying to murder people. :P
Due to these 2 things, I can only conclude the following:
The ability to turn a mindless action flick into a microcosm of modern society's gender and racial ails is some seriously sad shit.
One way or another, yes. It certainly suggests an individual has a lot of racism in their background, whether on their part or on others, or both (ghettos and all that).
The thing is one has to realize that, while racism is still very widespread, it is not absolute, and shouldn't be automatically assumed.
Words mean different things to different people.
--
Hey, San: You're Asian. You hear that? Asian. So totally Asian. You've got Asia all over you! Ewww, Asian!
Hey, Jung: You're White. You hear that? White. So totally White. You've got White all over you! Ewww, White!
Hey, Muffin Man: You're a Pokemon! You hear that? Pokemon. So totally Pokemon. You've got Pokemon all over you! Ewww, Pokemon!
So, now, explain to me how Asian is not equal to White or Pokemon.
The problem is not that people are IGNORING racism. Or that they are TALKING about it.
His point was that people are OVER-SENSITIVE. You can't call someone any term relating to their race without someone crying "RACIST!"
Well, without YOU crying "racist" anyway.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
The problem is not that people are IGNORING racism. Or that they are TALKING about it.
His point was that people are OVER-SENSITIVE. You can't call someone any term relating to their race without someone crying "RACIST!"
Well, without YOU crying "racist" anyway.
Well, technically it IS racist, as it is a word describing the race of the person.
It is NOT, however, prejudice, which would be that bad thing that people have replaced with that silly descriptor of heritage above noted.
I saw the movie. Care to give me some sort of examples? Or is this just hypersensitivity at work?
"He told that guy to calm down because that guy is black and he clearly thinks all black people are irrational. This is so racist."
As for the "pro-Blue Collar" thing: What? Because the government and military wasn't a bunch of bumbling idiots who have no idea how the modern world works? The FBI, CIA, etc are fairly in touch in that regard. Seeing as they have to be.
The Die Hard movies are, to quote a great review, essentially Westerns set in modern cities. Bruce Willis plays an everyman, a guy who blows up planes with cars and gets his hands dirty. He beats someone with a laptop. Touches like that is what I'm talking about.
As for the language, there's not as much as in previous movies and at this point, it's essentially lazy. In context, the asian hooker comment was simply latching onto the easiest possible insult they could come up with. I wasn't insulted or offended, just kind of annoyed at the crappy writing. That is not to say that such a comment isn't slightly racist, just that it has no power because of the movie's other failings.
I love how this guy keeps on referring to it as a "slur." He didn't call her a fucking chink, or a jap, or whatever. He said asian. The insult part was the hooker part. Frankly, as a hooker, I was OFFENDED.
I love how this guy keeps on referring to it as a "slur." He didn't call her a fucking chink, or a jap, or whatever. He said asian. The insult part was the hooker part. Frankly, as a hooker, I was OFFENDED.
I saw the movie. Care to give me some sort of examples? Or is this just hypersensitivity at work?
"He told that guy to calm down because that guy is black and he clearly thinks all black people are irrational. This is so racist."
As for the "pro-Blue Collar" thing: What? Because the government and military wasn't a bunch of bumbling idiots who have no idea how the modern world works? The FBI, CIA, etc are fairly in touch in that regard. Seeing as they have to be.
The Die Hard movies are, to quote a great review, essentially Westerns set in modern cities. Bruce Willis plays an everyman, a guy who blows up planes with cars and gets his hands dirty. He beats someone with a laptop. Touches like that is what I'm talking about.
As for the language, there's not as much as in previous movies and at this point, it's essentially lazy. In context, the asian hooker comment was simply latching onto the easiest possible insult they could come up with. I wasn't insulted or offended, just kind of annoyed at the crappy writing. That is not to say that such a comment isn't slightly racist, just that it has no power because of the movie's other failings.
Then if it's such a horrid movie so unworthy of your time that this remark that had you up in arms a few pages ago suddenly doesn't seem important, why are you STILL complaining?
In fact, you've YET to give me an example of bad dialog that was also racist like you insisted happened "dozens of times".
Or did I accidentally skip over the part where you backpedaled and claimed "Not so much RACIST, so much as bad writing. But the OP never complained about bad dialog so I refuse to talk about it ever again."
The problem is not that people are IGNORING racism. Or that they are TALKING about it.
His point was that people are OVER-SENSITIVE. You can't call someone any term relating to their race without someone crying "RACIST!"
Well, without YOU crying "racist" anyway.
*sigh* Obviously that's not true since I've referred to myself as Asian, to my parents as white, and to various others using racial terms. I'm simply using them as modifiers with no ill intent.
My point is simply that there are instances when those modifiers change, particularly when we are insulting and/or trying to hurt someone. As Incenj said, race becomes a tool (and a weapon). The reasons why we choose to use certain racial terms as weapons in certain contexts is based on cultural/political/gender/social/economic/class history. "Asian hooker" is a term rife with history, some of which I've mentioned.
And as I've noted, upon seeing the film, I didn't find the term all that offensive because it was more a product of bad writing than intentional bigotry. And the only reason he didn't call her a "chink hooker" or "jap hooker" is that it would have gotten censored. Big time. So they used a less offensive term that still had some racial and misogynistic undertones, simply not enough to get censored.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited July 2007
So wait, asian women are the most notorious hookers in history?
Then if it's such a horrid movie so unworthy of your time that this remark that had you up in arms a few pages ago suddenly doesn't seem important, why are you STILL complaining?
In fact, you've YET to give me an example of bad dialog that was also racist like you insisted happened "dozens of times".
Or did I accidentally skip over the part where you backpedaled and claimed "Not so much RACIST, so much as bad writing. But the OP never complained about bad dialog so I refuse to talk about it ever again."
Nope. I didn't write down the other dialogue bits other than noting the Asian hooker line and its context.
And in any case, if you're going to keep sniping about irrelevant shit, I guess I'm done. I honestly don't care at this point because I've made my points and all of the lurkers are coming out to play (and adding absolutely nothing to the conversation).
Cheers.
PS @:jungle: read what I wrote before about the US occupation of Japan and the race/sex history between the two cultures. It might be illuminating.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Race can only be used as a weapon among people who consider race to matter. Since way too many people allow their race to matter to them, they can have the fact used against each other.
Same thing with sexuality, gender, orientation, or interest.
If you call a woman a Woman in the right tone, and she has been trained to believe that being a woman is bad, you may well offend her.
If you call someone who likes to have a lot of sex a slut, they will be offended unless they've managed to dodge the social programming that says "Having lots of sex is bad."
Gay? Same thing.
Nerd? Same thing.
Etc etc etc.
Calling someone by their race will only cease to occur when it no longer grants a person power.
Call me a mutt, call me a white man, call me an injun, call me a Mongol, I'll just beam proudly. I've even been called races I have no lineage in, and I'm beaming just as proud because, hey, nothing wrong with being thought of as Greek or Armenian or Jewish.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
There is a lot of racial banter flying around, all chosen specifically to be as offensive as possible without crossing any significant lines.
I am still trying to get him to clarify this.
That, sir, makes you racist.
RACIST!
I'm not racist, I have black friends!
Pft, but you demand someone from a non caucopean heritage to explain why something is racist, thereby your own racial insensivity is laid bare as Jennifer Connoly in Requiem for a Dream.
I can see the cooter of your racism, and it needs a douche of sensitivity.
Posts
Or it could be because the OP specifically focuses on the racial side of the slur.
Though you can keep insulting me if you'd like.
To be fair, you brought up a LOT of arguments he never did.
But hey, let's just blame Glyph for all of your arguments. That's mature.
All of my arguments focused on the racial elements of the insult, as per the OP, even if I did introduce new arguments to supplement what was previously mentioned. You can read into the rest of it whatever your sad little mind wants.
Actually, fuck that.
You've been baiting me throughout this entire discussion by twisting my words, implying that I'm racist, and now saying that I'm also possibly sexist, or at least blinded to misogynistic undertones of the slur due to my being Asian. Frankly, I'm sick of it and I'm calling you out on your shit. If you're going to insinuate these things, then come out and say them. Don't be all snide and think you're witty. You're just being cowardly and relying on pile-on tactics without introducing anything of substance. Don't try to insult me by posting little side comments to people who agree with you. If you're going to insult me, then insult me to my face. Otherwise, stfu and gtfo.
In other news:
I got to see the film; it's a real POS. There is a lot of racial banter flying around, all chosen specifically to be as offensive as possible without crossing any significant lines. The comments of asian hooker (which happens twice) are essentially their pathetic way of trying to be insulting to asians while not displaying any kind of creativity. It's more pathetic than offensive; the best they can do throughout the entire movie is rehash tired stereotypes on all groups. So it tries to rouse a response but fails even at that.
Essentially, I just wanted to get the hell out of there. The dialogue was far less offensive than the rest of the stupidity that was happening on screen.
How does one get so oversensitive?
Did you also hate PoC? Because that had tons of racism.
--
I would assume from exposure to seriously racist surroundings.
I've never personally witnessed much racism that wasn't really culturalism.
My white/Native American/Mexican family are largely blacksploitation caricatures, so the idea that stereotypes come from race is kind of unnatural.
And no, I never called you sexist. I merely implied you don't care because you're not a woman, but you did care because you were asian.
As for your opinion on the movie, you made it pretty clear you thought this was some "white male supremacy crap" from the start, so I'm really not shocked that you found "a lot of racial banter" where I found "maybe one phrase that I guess could possibly be racist, I suppose."
PoC? Not sure what that is.
Also, I'm fine with racist dialogue/themes if they're used to inform, not denigrate.
This was just exploitation, more than anything, reinforcing the status quo and not subverting anything.
Also, archetypes/stereotypes change over time. We should be trying to do away with the ones that we find repugnant. It's happened before (we don't see Breakfast at Tiffany's type characters anymore, as one example) and there's no reason why we should just sit pat and say "well, they're just a stereotype, nothing to be done."
jungleroomx isn't the first person to feel that oversensitivity has become a problem. So to him I would pose the question, when does something deserve to be taken offensively? The insult ought to be in the intent as well as the reaction, should it not? I called a friend of mine "that Jew" once and she exploded on me. I tried to ask her what was wrong, since to me it was no different than saying "that Buddhist" or "that Christian," since she is Jewish and that is the appropriate noun. But she took it as a slur, regardless of my intent.
Repugnant?
What is repugnant about a woman who can kick the shit out of people, and is the most physically powerful and dangerous person in the entire film?
Or do you mean "olol A white cop is racist?"
You know, one of the biggest reasons racism is still alive and well is the blatant oversensitivity to it.
What I'm getting out of this thread is that the phrase "Asian hooker" is bad because:
1. It's improper to point out someones race in an insulting manner (even though in this case it was just a clarification. It's a "Yeah, I'm talkin to you" type thing).
2. It's bad to call a girl a demeaning name, because girls never do anything wrong and to insult them means you're a bigot.
Due to these 2 things, I can only conclude the following:
The ability to turn a mindless action flick into a microcosm of modern society's gender and racial ails is some seriously sad shit.
Well, you implied that I was anti-white people so I made it clear that I was raised in a white household. That pretty much should have made it obvious that it would be nearly impossible for me to be racist against white people, family being important and all. So no, I don't really see the parallels between "I have black friends!" and "My adopted parents and extended family are all white." Maybe you do, but then again, unless you grew up in a multiracial family, it's hard to understand.
I resent the implication that I don't care; I do care, I simply didn't address it because it was not part of the OP. There's no other reason to imply such a thing unless you were deliberately trying to insult me.
Uh.........there are like two dozen moments when racial language is used or referenced. They're not really racist, per se, they're more tired insults thrown around because they can't think of anything better to say. Instead of actually riffing on the character's flaws and/or quirks, they're more like "He's a French guy! Let's make fun of that! Oh, and she's an asian chick! Let's make fun of that!"
As for the rest, it was advertised as being far more pro-blue collar America than it really was. It tried to take the patriotism angle by updating with the trappings of an anti-terror agenda, but it's pretty much the same formula (albeit beaten to death by now) as the original films. It was essentially a string of ridiculous set-pieces tied together poorly by a convoluted, stupid plot.
At this point, I don't even care about the racial stuff. It was a shoddy movie, period, with or without the inane dialogue.
Or because sexism, racism, and classism are uncomfortable subjects that most people want to avoid. Thus, the entire "color-blindness" bullshit. Talking about these issues is the only way to change them. Avoiding them simply buries the problems.
As for 1) It wasn't really clarification in this case. There wasn't anyone else around he was fighting or going to kill. It was chosen for a reason (probably the script writers were lazy and simply grabbed the easiest, most common insult floating around).
2) Depends on context, as usual. We choose insults for specific reasons and it is always good to examine those reasons and how we use the words. Calling a dude a bitch is completely different from calling a woman a bitch. We mean entirely different things with the same word, based on gender. No one is saying that women are perfect, simply that some insults can be misogynistic in context.
Btw, media is essentially a reflection of a society in a certain point in history. You can learn a lot about the US from examining action movies, or porn, or network television, etc etc.
Almost verbatim, actually.
We've been over this. We're discussing things the OP never even implied.
So stop blaming the OP for you not bringing it up sooner.
I saw the movie. Care to give me some sort of examples? Or is this just hypersensitivity at work?
"He told that guy to calm down because that guy is black and he clearly thinks all black people are irrational. This is so racist."
As for the "pro-Blue Collar" thing: What? Because the government and military wasn't a bunch of bumbling idiots who have no idea how the modern world works? The FBI, CIA, etc are fairly in touch in that regard. Seeing as they have to be.
I watched the other ones at parties with friends. I went to this one because of the thread (and cuz it was 3 bucks). I didn't expect much from the reviews and got even less.
Yet McClaine calling her "ASIAN" is a fucking issue.
What the goddamned fuck.
Agreed. Being ABLE to take "You are what you are!" as an insult just enforces the idea that what you are is, in fact, bad. Personally, I'm a mongrel/crossbreed/mutt or whatever you want to call it. If someone called me a mutt, I would probably just start bragging about how awesome my ancestry is.
Well, in this case I think he was trying to assert "You are different than me!" in a way that would make her defensive. He was assuming she had a complex about her race.
He was using racism as a tool, basically. It doesn't require that he be racist himself. I've been known to use the term "whitey," when I want to razz someone, even though I'm 7/8 Northern European by blood.
After all, women can't defend themselves because they are weak and need to be defended by a big strong man. You certainly should never hit girls, even if they are trying to murder people. :P
One way or another, yes. It certainly suggests an individual has a lot of racism in their background, whether on their part or on others, or both (ghettos and all that).
The thing is one has to realize that, while racism is still very widespread, it is not absolute, and shouldn't be automatically assumed.
Words mean different things to different people.
--
Hey, San: You're Asian. You hear that? Asian. So totally Asian. You've got Asia all over you! Ewww, Asian!
Hey, Jung: You're White. You hear that? White. So totally White. You've got White all over you! Ewww, White!
Hey, Muffin Man: You're a Pokemon! You hear that? Pokemon. So totally Pokemon. You've got Pokemon all over you! Ewww, Pokemon!
So, now, explain to me how Asian is not equal to White or Pokemon.
His point was that people are OVER-SENSITIVE. You can't call someone any term relating to their race without someone crying "RACIST!"
Well, without YOU crying "racist" anyway.
Well, technically it IS racist, as it is a word describing the race of the person.
It is NOT, however, prejudice, which would be that bad thing that people have replaced with that silly descriptor of heritage above noted.
The Die Hard movies are, to quote a great review, essentially Westerns set in modern cities. Bruce Willis plays an everyman, a guy who blows up planes with cars and gets his hands dirty. He beats someone with a laptop. Touches like that is what I'm talking about.
As for the language, there's not as much as in previous movies and at this point, it's essentially lazy. In context, the asian hooker comment was simply latching onto the easiest possible insult they could come up with. I wasn't insulted or offended, just kind of annoyed at the crappy writing. That is not to say that such a comment isn't slightly racist, just that it has no power because of the movie's other failings.
Has this not sunk in yet?
No, don't you see, the "chink" was implied!
Then if it's such a horrid movie so unworthy of your time that this remark that had you up in arms a few pages ago suddenly doesn't seem important, why are you STILL complaining?
In fact, you've YET to give me an example of bad dialog that was also racist like you insisted happened "dozens of times".
Or did I accidentally skip over the part where you backpedaled and claimed "Not so much RACIST, so much as bad writing. But the OP never complained about bad dialog so I refuse to talk about it ever again."
*sigh* Obviously that's not true since I've referred to myself as Asian, to my parents as white, and to various others using racial terms. I'm simply using them as modifiers with no ill intent.
My point is simply that there are instances when those modifiers change, particularly when we are insulting and/or trying to hurt someone. As Incenj said, race becomes a tool (and a weapon). The reasons why we choose to use certain racial terms as weapons in certain contexts is based on cultural/political/gender/social/economic/class history. "Asian hooker" is a term rife with history, some of which I've mentioned.
And as I've noted, upon seeing the film, I didn't find the term all that offensive because it was more a product of bad writing than intentional bigotry. And the only reason he didn't call her a "chink hooker" or "jap hooker" is that it would have gotten censored. Big time. So they used a less offensive term that still had some racial and misogynistic undertones, simply not enough to get censored.
Are you for real?
Nah. It's because it was gonna be censored. Totally.
Nope. I didn't write down the other dialogue bits other than noting the Asian hooker line and its context.
And in any case, if you're going to keep sniping about irrelevant shit, I guess I'm done. I honestly don't care at this point because I've made my points and all of the lurkers are coming out to play (and adding absolutely nothing to the conversation).
Cheers.
PS @:jungle: read what I wrote before about the US occupation of Japan and the race/sex history between the two cultures. It might be illuminating.
No different than any other society in the history of forever.
I am still trying to get him to clarify this.
Same thing with sexuality, gender, orientation, or interest.
If you call a woman a Woman in the right tone, and she has been trained to believe that being a woman is bad, you may well offend her.
If you call someone who likes to have a lot of sex a slut, they will be offended unless they've managed to dodge the social programming that says "Having lots of sex is bad."
Gay? Same thing.
Nerd? Same thing.
Etc etc etc.
Calling someone by their race will only cease to occur when it no longer grants a person power.
Call me a mutt, call me a white man, call me an injun, call me a Mongol, I'll just beam proudly. I've even been called races I have no lineage in, and I'm beaming just as proud because, hey, nothing wrong with being thought of as Greek or Armenian or Jewish.
That, sir, makes you racist.
I'm not racist, I have black friends!
Pft, but you demand someone from a non caucopean heritage to explain why something is racist, thereby your own racial insensivity is laid bare as Jennifer Connoly in Requiem for a Dream.
I can see the cooter of your racism, and it needs a douche of sensitivity.
That... that is the best thing. Ever.
I want it as my new sig. but my current, it is so good. It is so good because it makes fun of silly internet elitist hipsters.
Also, jesus fuck my head hurts after reading this thread.
I love that monkey.