I'm going to have to chime in on one of the comments that Steam is slow. That is outright bull.
I just downloaded: HL2, HL2: DM, Ep1, Lost Coast, and CS: S, a total of over 6 gigabytes, in around 4 hours (and that's having left my PC to it, really I think it came in a little over 3 hours). That's including install time, since as soon as it's downloaded it's good to play. If I were to head to the store and buy it and come back, it would probably take me at least an hour just to do that.
Steam is ludicrously fast with the content delivery. Once you've paid for it you can download it anywhere at some very impressive speeds. What it comes down to AFTER that is the speed of your connection, something which you can't really pin on Valve. Admittedly connection speed can be a problem. Not everyone or everywhere has access to a good broadband connection. One good thing though is that the backup system allows you to essentially download your game anywhere that has a good connection (assuming you have access to such a place), then install it on your home PC and then just do the verification through your account. And that should be pretty fast even on dial up.
I have my concerns about Steam but from practical experience, speed is no way one of them.
I used to get some bull from steam....
Something like "Steam can't handle this request!"
So I'm not allowed to download my game because steam can't handle it? Oh joy! I don't know what the game was anymore though.
Steam forces me to be reliant on their service. The more proprietary they make it, the more of a bitch it will be to use the service if Valve goes under (I can't get a fallout patch directly from Interplay any more ). So you have pros and cons, including the reliance that goes into the purchase. But it should be cheaper, and it isn't.
What's more, standard market practice doesn't get thrown about these products I don't believe. Virtual bargain bins where I can find a copy of a two-year old game that just didn't sell on the cheap don't exist. I like finding copies of Fallout for $6. If Steam goes under, I don't find old copies on Ebay for $10 or $100, I simply lose access to what I bought already.
At this point, digital distribution is a Frankenstein's monster between lease and purchase. I don't have to remember a password, worry about a company collapsing, remember a password, or download proprietary software to use a chair. I do to use these products, but I didn't always have to do that to use similar products. It's an abrupt and jarring change that I expect to continue to morph and change before it steadies into something as simple as "buying something--I own and have that something and can access it as long as I place it in a position of access (aka, don't lock it in a safe and then forget the combination)."
1)Valve is not in a shaky position. 2)If it comes to that, I imagine there are a few companies that would like to buy Steam and run it themselves. 3)They've as near as promised that if ever Valve goes under, you will have plenty of warning to download the games to portable media and get a sort of no-cd patch. Between these three the chance of you ever "losing" your Steam games is reasonably close to 0.
Steam is a virtual bargin bin. There are a lot of indie/old games on Steam for under $10, including Geometry Wars for $4 and X-COM: Terror from the Deep for $5.
It can't be cheaper over Steam than retail. Retailers would bitch to high heaven. You should be rooting for Valve to go all-digital, then they probably could knock off some of the price. As it is, almost every game has had a pre-sale for 10% off for preordering or getting it within the first week.
Christ, if you're even a semi-serious PC gamer and you don't have broad band you pretty much have to shut the hell up at this point. I lived in bum fuck Kansas in a town of 6,000 people and we had broadband in my town before I graduated high school 7 years ago. It was expensive and few people bothered, but when I went off to college it was super cheap and super fast.
If you truly can't get access to broad band internet where you live move or find a new fucking hobby. And no you can't whine if you have shitty wireless on your laptop either. Get a 360 if you can't afford a decent PC.
Also Doomsayers worried about Valve shutting down need to realize that they could pretty easily release a patch and let all the games on Steam work off-line. If they didn't they would be in pretty hot shit with a lot of pissed off customers, and whoever bought them would be in for a nightmare.
Join the digital revolution and buy games in your underwear already. Goddamn people, do you like missing out on awesome things?
I posted in the Steam thread, and I was told that Black Box was still going to be available on Steam only. Is it available, or do I have to repurchase games to get Ep.2?
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I'm saying I don't want to buy the Orange Box because it has 3/4 of what I own already, it's a waste of money.
Absofuckinglutely. I'm still pretty pissed off that they nixed Black Box. It was absolutely perfect because it had everything I didn't own. Now, wait, what's this? I have to buy HL2 and Episode 1 again? I don't want to. Digital delivery is great, but I'm the type who would rather have a physical copy of every game I own. I only own two games, the physical copies for which, I do not own. Those being DoDS, and Episode 1. Call it a fixation, I like having physical copies of the shit I pay for. There are people whose only jobs are to design the packaging and instruction booklet for a game, and I like to be able to appreciate things like that.
I know Prey let you do it. As I bought it just before they announced it for steam. but they allowed you to submit your CD key and viola...Prey was on Steam
So, I'm just foolishly hoping they'd let us do that with other games.
1.) There is no reason to buy the hard copy. All you're doing is buying the rights to it on Steam, with an offline installation. That's it. You can't play without going through Steam. Buy the game online, and burn the files to a CD if you really want. Steam even takes PayPal.
People want physical copies, dude. That's the reason.
Then make a physical copy. There's no functional difference other than the pretty disc art, and hell Valve doesn't really even do that anymore IIRC.
Also, if you pre-order the game you'll be able to preload it. You'll be playing it faster if you get it online than in the store.
People also want the pretty disc art. Saying there is "no reason to buy the hard copy" is kind of - no, scratch that - it's extremely retarded. I personally see no reason to buy 30 pairs of shoes, but I'm not going to go to a shoe forum and tell everyone that there is no reason to buy that many shoes. People have personal and sometimes arbitrary reasons for making purchases, and a desire to own a factory-pressed disc with the data on it is a very prominent reason for buying the hard copy.
Making a objective statement that there is no reason to purchase a hard copy is just silly. And to say that you are just buying the rights to it on Steam is literally false, because you are buying the box and disc art and the disc with the data on it which alleviates the need to download all of it. If you want to say that those are stupid reasons, go ahead, but you're making it sound like the box contains a download access code and nothing else. Which is false.
IMO, Steam was really horrible when it launched. I couldn't believe people were falling for it. I could care less if Steam was a requirement for Multiplayer, because that's where the cheating and other hax occur and the need for stricter controls seems obvious. But I felt it was too big brother for them to require it for SP too. Yes I know you can use it offline, but they don't really advertise that mode very well and the way you get to it is rather awkward. Which tells me they don't want you to use it.
I still don't think Steam is a good idea, though I can't deny that I haven't had any problem with it when I tried it out again when I bought HL2 about a year ago. I love that they've got games like X-com on it.
But to say that Steam will always be good is just outright shortsighted and niave. You know damned well that it's inevitable that Valve will either fall on hard times or be bought by another company someday. It's that inevitable future date that's got some of us worried. Just because Steam treats us well now is no guarantee that it will always treat us well. When you've got that hard copy that's completely independent of a connection to a company server. I can play that game regardless of what happens to the company I know it's been said that Valve will issue us some sort of offline code to enable lifetime offline play should something happen and Steam needs to be shut down permanently. But where is that guaranteed? They could change their mind at any time and say fuck you if they felt like it.
Some people don't like that loss of control and see it as the slow, bit by bit erosion of consumer rights, and it's not an unreasonable complaint
I'm pretty sure that Valve is not publically traded and therefore cannot be bought in a hostile takeover, otherwise Vivendi would have just done that..
1.) There is no reason to buy the hard copy. All you're doing is buying the rights to it on Steam, with an offline installation. That's it. You can't play without going through Steam. Buy the game online, and burn the files to a CD if you really want. Steam even takes PayPal.
This sounds retarded.
If I buy a game I should be able to install it and play it without having to go through their inane online shop service.
1.) There is no reason to buy the hard copy. All you're doing is buying the rights to it on Steam, with an offline installation. That's it. You can't play without going through Steam. Buy the game online, and burn the files to a CD if you really want. Steam even takes PayPal.
This sounds retarded.
If I buy a game I should be able to install it and play it without having to go through their inane online shop service.
Valve disagrees. If you want to play Valve games you're sol.
You don't wait for it to download. It's already downloaded and you just play it at midnight. And if you won't spend like $20 for the physical copy then I guess you're not that avid a collector.
Have you ever actually DONE this? It almost never works; the Steam servers get hammered or go down, the game won't unlock, whatever. Usually takes a few days before things are reliable.
You don't wait for it to download. It's already downloaded and you just play it at midnight. And if you won't spend like $20 for the physical copy then I guess you're not that avid a collector.
Have you ever actually DONE this? It almost never works; the Steam servers get hammered or go down, the game won't unlock, whatever. Usually takes a few days before things are reliable.
This happened when HL2 was released, but there weren't any reported problems with Episode 1.
You don't wait for it to download. It's already downloaded and you just play it at midnight. And if you won't spend like $20 for the physical copy then I guess you're not that avid a collector.
Have you ever actually DONE this? It almost never works; the Steam servers get hammered or go down, the game won't unlock, whatever. Usually takes a few days before things are reliable.
This happened when HL2 was released, but there weren't any reported problems with Episode 1.
It's not 2004 anymore.
I didn't have any problems when HL2 released. I mean I didn't try it at midnight, but rather the morning afterwards, and everything went just fine. Episode 1, either.
I wouldn't call either of those "full-price" since they're like...$5 to $10. Chalk me up as a person who wouldn't buy a full-priced retail game on download.
For example, if MS only offered BioShock on 360 as a $60 download through Marketplace, I wouldn't do it.
I wouldn't call either of those "full-price" since they're like...$5 to $10. Chalk me up as a person who wouldn't buy a full-priced retail game on download.
For example, if MS only offered BioShock on 360 as a $60 download through Marketplace, I wouldn't do it.
That can't be the distinction though because this thread is about Ep2 - an episodic add on. The regular Half Life 2 can still be purchased in a retail store.
I'm pretty sure that Valve is not publically traded and therefore cannot be bought in a hostile takeover, otherwise Vivendi would have just done that..
The point is that you can't predict the future. A change of management and the new guard decides to be less friendly, Gabe decides he needs more twinkies and sells the company...you name it. Anything can happen. But hey, when you got a hard copy. Valve can do whatever the fuck they want and it doesn't infringe on my ability to play the game I paid for.
Again, requiring Steam for multiplayer makes a lot of sense. But for the single player experience: Steam becomes completely and utterly unnecessary bloatware. I have zero problem with digital delivery. just allow me to play and store the game independently of the delivery system once I have it. Again, this is not an unreasonable request
I have no desire to pay full price for a download.
That's too bad. I guess you'll either have to go the 360 route or just have to not experience some of the best FPSs around.
Ehh... don't care for FPSs much in the first place.
I'm objecting on principle, mainly.
Hey, just a question, but do you use the Virtual Console?
There is a difference between paying, at most, 10 dollars for old games and paying full price on Steam.
Why is that exactly? Because you're a hypocrite? Because you believe in one online service and not another? Because you believe that something that just came out isn't worth more than something that's 10-15 years old?
I don't get what the difference is besides that you want it to be different so you can bitch in this thread and then go and support Nintendo who's doing pretty much the exact same damned thing as Valve, only with older games.
Valve also supports independent game companies in a way the consoles probably never will. That was a big part of Steam's original mission. To give smaller development companies an easy way to get their games to people who want them. Because retailers have no interest in anything but big budget games.
Steam charges full price for games, without the benifit of actually owning the discs or even being able to, you know, actually play them without being connected to the internet.
Steam charges full price for games, without the benifit of actually owning the discs or even being able to, you know, actually play them without being connected to the internet.
You know there are 58 games on steam that are $10 or under.
And you can play any game that's on steam offline as long as you've started it up once while connected to the internet.
So again, why is virtual console different than steam? Because steam has a better selection of games including brand new games? Is that the difference? Steam is a better service?
I also have cry foul on that argument. Steam does offer old games for pretty damn cheap. X-com TFTD is only..what..four bucks?
Though personally, I think if Valve wanted to win some major points, they'd find some more old games like that and just release them for free. I can't fault them for charging something, cuz honestly its smart. charge a pittance for a old, but loved, game. Even if a relatively small number of people buy it, you're still making a nice bit of coin.
But still, can't these owners just let some of these ancient games go for free? It would generate so much good PR. I still remember when PC Gamer gave out a CD that had like 10 free classic games on it. Wing Commander, the original X-Com..etc
Steam charges full price for games, without the benifit of actually owning the discs or even being able to, you know, actually play them without being connected to the internet.
That's a blatant fucking lie. Most Steam games have an offline mode that works just fine jackass. Also Steam offers some really good deals. I got Titan Quest plus the expansion for $29.95 no tax the other day. I couldn't find the package anywhere near where I live for for less then $40 plus tax. I save 10 bucks and didn't have to give Uncle Sam a cut. I'm happy, and you're ignorant. Also I don't know for sure, but I'm betting you will be able to get the Orange box for about $50 vs $60 for the 360 version sounds like a good deal to me?
Why should I even be connected at all once I buy it?
Once I buy the game I should be able to play it whenever I want. Even if for some reason I have no internet connection at all.
That's my biggest beef, really.
What I was mainly complaing about was paying retail price for games, (20 bucks or more) not getting a disc, and then having to connect to the internet each time I want to play the game I bought.
I have no problem with 10 dollar or less downloadable games.
Why should I even be connected at all once I buy it?
Once I buy the game I should be able to play it whenever I want. Even if for some reason I have no internet connection at all.
That's my biggest beef, really.
What I was mainly complaining about was paying retail price for games, (20 bucks or more) not getting a disc, and then having to connect to the internet each time I want to play the game I bought.
I have no problem with 10 dollar or less downloadable games.
You don't have to connect after you buy it. If you buy it and then run it once you're golden. You never have to run it online again if you never delete the content from your computer. You can back it up onto disk so you can re-install it later, but if you don't want to you don't have to.
Basically I think your problem with steam is that you're incredibly ignorant about it and don't actually understand what the service is.
You don't have to connect to the internet each time you want to play it. Only the first time, after it's initialized and downloaded you can launch them in offline mode. Just like any other game. You have no basis for your argument except having a pretty box and a shitty manual. They never put anything good in either these days unless you get a special edition game.
You don't have to connect after you buy it. If you buy it and then run it once you're golden. You never have to run it online again if you never delete the content from your computer. You can back it up onto disk so you can re-install it later, but if you don't want to you don't have to.
Basically I think your problem with steam is that you're incredibly ignorant about it and don't actually understand what the service is.
I'm just going by what was said in this thread earlier for crying out loud.
Posts
I just downloaded: HL2, HL2: DM, Ep1, Lost Coast, and CS: S, a total of over 6 gigabytes, in around 4 hours (and that's having left my PC to it, really I think it came in a little over 3 hours). That's including install time, since as soon as it's downloaded it's good to play. If I were to head to the store and buy it and come back, it would probably take me at least an hour just to do that.
Steam is ludicrously fast with the content delivery. Once you've paid for it you can download it anywhere at some very impressive speeds. What it comes down to AFTER that is the speed of your connection, something which you can't really pin on Valve. Admittedly connection speed can be a problem. Not everyone or everywhere has access to a good broadband connection. One good thing though is that the backup system allows you to essentially download your game anywhere that has a good connection (assuming you have access to such a place), then install it on your home PC and then just do the verification through your account. And that should be pretty fast even on dial up.
I have my concerns about Steam but from practical experience, speed is no way one of them.
Something like "Steam can't handle this request!"
So I'm not allowed to download my game because steam can't handle it? Oh joy! I don't know what the game was anymore though.
1)Valve is not in a shaky position. 2)If it comes to that, I imagine there are a few companies that would like to buy Steam and run it themselves. 3)They've as near as promised that if ever Valve goes under, you will have plenty of warning to download the games to portable media and get a sort of no-cd patch. Between these three the chance of you ever "losing" your Steam games is reasonably close to 0.
Steam is a virtual bargin bin. There are a lot of indie/old games on Steam for under $10, including Geometry Wars for $4 and X-COM: Terror from the Deep for $5.
It can't be cheaper over Steam than retail. Retailers would bitch to high heaven. You should be rooting for Valve to go all-digital, then they probably could knock off some of the price. As it is, almost every game has had a pre-sale for 10% off for preordering or getting it within the first week.
If you truly can't get access to broad band internet where you live move or find a new fucking hobby. And no you can't whine if you have shitty wireless on your laptop either. Get a 360 if you can't afford a decent PC.
Also Doomsayers worried about Valve shutting down need to realize that they could pretty easily release a patch and let all the games on Steam work off-line. If they didn't they would be in pretty hot shit with a lot of pissed off customers, and whoever bought them would be in for a nightmare.
Join the digital revolution and buy games in your underwear already. Goddamn people, do you like missing out on awesome things?
Me too, man.
Absofuckinglutely. I'm still pretty pissed off that they nixed Black Box. It was absolutely perfect because it had everything I didn't own. Now, wait, what's this? I have to buy HL2 and Episode 1 again? I don't want to. Digital delivery is great, but I'm the type who would rather have a physical copy of every game I own. I only own two games, the physical copies for which, I do not own. Those being DoDS, and Episode 1. Call it a fixation, I like having physical copies of the shit I pay for. There are people whose only jobs are to design the packaging and instruction booklet for a game, and I like to be able to appreciate things like that.
I was able to do it with Dark Messiah, as well.
People also want the pretty disc art. Saying there is "no reason to buy the hard copy" is kind of - no, scratch that - it's extremely retarded. I personally see no reason to buy 30 pairs of shoes, but I'm not going to go to a shoe forum and tell everyone that there is no reason to buy that many shoes. People have personal and sometimes arbitrary reasons for making purchases, and a desire to own a factory-pressed disc with the data on it is a very prominent reason for buying the hard copy.
Making a objective statement that there is no reason to purchase a hard copy is just silly. And to say that you are just buying the rights to it on Steam is literally false, because you are buying the box and disc art and the disc with the data on it which alleviates the need to download all of it. If you want to say that those are stupid reasons, go ahead, but you're making it sound like the box contains a download access code and nothing else. Which is false.
I still don't think Steam is a good idea, though I can't deny that I haven't had any problem with it when I tried it out again when I bought HL2 about a year ago. I love that they've got games like X-com on it.
But to say that Steam will always be good is just outright shortsighted and niave. You know damned well that it's inevitable that Valve will either fall on hard times or be bought by another company someday. It's that inevitable future date that's got some of us worried. Just because Steam treats us well now is no guarantee that it will always treat us well. When you've got that hard copy that's completely independent of a connection to a company server. I can play that game regardless of what happens to the company I know it's been said that Valve will issue us some sort of offline code to enable lifetime offline play should something happen and Steam needs to be shut down permanently. But where is that guaranteed? They could change their mind at any time and say fuck you if they felt like it.
Some people don't like that loss of control and see it as the slow, bit by bit erosion of consumer rights, and it's not an unreasonable complaint
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
This sounds retarded.
If I buy a game I should be able to install it and play it without having to go through their inane online shop service.
Valve disagrees. If you want to play Valve games you're sol.
Have you ever actually DONE this? It almost never works; the Steam servers get hammered or go down, the game won't unlock, whatever. Usually takes a few days before things are reliable.
This happened when HL2 was released, but there weren't any reported problems with Episode 1.
It's not 2004 anymore.
Ok
Have you used Steam before? Just wonderin.
That's too bad. I guess you'll either have to go the 360 route or just have to not experience some of the best FPSs around.
I didn't have any problems when HL2 released. I mean I didn't try it at midnight, but rather the morning afterwards, and everything went just fine. Episode 1, either.
Ehh... don't care for FPSs much in the first place.
I'm objecting on principle, mainly.
Hey, just a question, but do you use the Virtual Console?
Or Live Marketplace?
Or Playstation Network?
For example, if MS only offered BioShock on 360 as a $60 download through Marketplace, I wouldn't do it.
Or Steam?
wait
CHEESE IT IT'S THE COPS!
That can't be the distinction though because this thread is about Ep2 - an episodic add on. The regular Half Life 2 can still be purchased in a retail store.
There is a difference between paying, at most, 10 dollars for old games and paying full price on Steam.
The point is that you can't predict the future. A change of management and the new guard decides to be less friendly, Gabe decides he needs more twinkies and sells the company...you name it. Anything can happen. But hey, when you got a hard copy. Valve can do whatever the fuck they want and it doesn't infringe on my ability to play the game I paid for.
Again, requiring Steam for multiplayer makes a lot of sense. But for the single player experience: Steam becomes completely and utterly unnecessary bloatware. I have zero problem with digital delivery. just allow me to play and store the game independently of the delivery system once I have it. Again, this is not an unreasonable request
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Also we arent talking about a complete new game. This isn't Hale Life 3, its an episodic add-on to a pre-existing game.
Why is that exactly? Because you're a hypocrite? Because you believe in one online service and not another? Because you believe that something that just came out isn't worth more than something that's 10-15 years old?
I don't get what the difference is besides that you want it to be different so you can bitch in this thread and then go and support Nintendo who's doing pretty much the exact same damned thing as Valve, only with older games.
Steam charges full price for games, without the benifit of actually owning the discs or even being able to, you know, actually play them without being connected to the internet.
You know there are 58 games on steam that are $10 or under.
And you can play any game that's on steam offline as long as you've started it up once while connected to the internet.
So again, why is virtual console different than steam? Because steam has a better selection of games including brand new games? Is that the difference? Steam is a better service?
Though personally, I think if Valve wanted to win some major points, they'd find some more old games like that and just release them for free. I can't fault them for charging something, cuz honestly its smart. charge a pittance for a old, but loved, game. Even if a relatively small number of people buy it, you're still making a nice bit of coin.
But still, can't these owners just let some of these ancient games go for free? It would generate so much good PR. I still remember when PC Gamer gave out a CD that had like 10 free classic games on it. Wing Commander, the original X-Com..etc
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
That's a blatant fucking lie. Most Steam games have an offline mode that works just fine jackass. Also Steam offers some really good deals. I got Titan Quest plus the expansion for $29.95 no tax the other day. I couldn't find the package anywhere near where I live for for less then $40 plus tax. I save 10 bucks and didn't have to give Uncle Sam a cut. I'm happy, and you're ignorant. Also I don't know for sure, but I'm betting you will be able to get the Orange box for about $50 vs $60 for the 360 version sounds like a good deal to me?
Once I buy the game I should be able to play it whenever I want. Even if for some reason I have no internet connection at all.
That's my biggest beef, really.
What I was mainly complaing about was paying retail price for games, (20 bucks or more) not getting a disc, and then having to connect to the internet each time I want to play the game I bought.
I have no problem with 10 dollar or less downloadable games.
You don't have to connect after you buy it. If you buy it and then run it once you're golden. You never have to run it online again if you never delete the content from your computer. You can back it up onto disk so you can re-install it later, but if you don't want to you don't have to.
Basically I think your problem with steam is that you're incredibly ignorant about it and don't actually understand what the service is.
edit: beat'd grrrr
I'm just going by what was said in this thread earlier for crying out loud.