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MS still hasn't fixed 360 transfer problems - UPDATE: Fix next month!!!
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But when offline I can't play arcade games or watch some videos (Purchased ones).
It's kind of annoying if I take my HDD to a friend's house and want to watch some shows and they won't work since he has no internet...
Now here is the big piece of info that he divulged. He said that he had personally re-issued a lot of points in the past, but two days ago he and everybody else were told to stop. He says this must be, because a fix is close to being released.
I'll be doing some more digging soon.
At no point, AFAIK, is any content of any kind tied to a specific HDD. Consoles, yes. hard drive, no.
And there's those instructions for pirating XBLA games again. Fantastic, mods, good job.
Steam | XBL
I didn't see you report it. Did you expect me to read your tiny little mind?
And those instructions still fall within what the license allows.
I just called the UK MS Customer Support (elite comes out on friday) about this. The guy guaranteed me that all my content would work online and offline. I made him call his supervisor, and he repeated this. I made them note this down in the call notes and give me a reference number.
Ohh, if the cable comes and it doesn't work, I've got proof now they said it would. WHich makes them much more likely to give me my points back. Again.
Last time they refunded me just over 21,000 points.
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
I'm sorry your job is so hard.
Steam | XBL
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
We've had this argument before. It isn't pirating if it's legal.
Which it is.
The agreement specifically allows for 1 console and one gamertag to recieve a liscense each. It even say's so right on your screen when you go to download paid content. Sadly most folks never bother to read the liscensing agreement.
I did and have absolutely NO qualms at all about excercising the consumer rights granted in that agreement.
Cool, enjoy your abusing.
Steam | XBL
and does that cost splitting thing still work? cause 1000 points is almost 15 canadian dollars.. O_O
Is that kind of jackassery count as pulling a wiggin?
The key to success in software is that every customer you havent fucked over is a lost blackmailing attempt.
What is this? What are you doing?
And VOILA, this shit is the reason they're not more lenient with these issues. People like you taking advantage of the system and twisting what you CAN do to fit your own douchey purposes
Edit:Matter of fact Bam, let's be clear here because they have flat out stated many damned times exactly what that license is meant to entail, and it's not so you can pirate games for your friends. It's the same reason that Live Arcade game sizes were kept to a specific size. It was meant so that you could load an arcade title onto a memory card and take it to a friends house. As long as you were logged in to the correct account, you were able to play that game fully on the friends 360. Then if you wanted to, you could transfer the game onto the friend's hard drive or memory card where it would revert to a demo. It was meant so that you could take it with you, not so you could pirate it. Just because you can download a game you paid for onto any PC on steam and play it as long as no one else is using the username doesn't mean that it was meant for you to share your damned games with your friends as long as you aren't online playing them yourself. We're really lucky that they haven't locked the arcade down tighter because of pirating douchebags who have taken advantage of the Arcade license and the points refunds like you, Bam.
yes, it's a tiny bit morally sketch, and there are several reasons not to do it besides the ethics ones, but I can't believe people are up in arms about someone (possibly) cheating microsoft out of a few dollars
It basically said that people were happy with how things had been handled and that they had very much widely publicized what was going on.
I'd like to flat out call bullshit, but with the nature of my job I can't very well handle it like that, I have to use a bit more tact.
So what do you guys think about this reply? I'm going to reply with some polite figures and try to get a more realistic reply out of the guy.
Oh also he claims to have no idea what exactly the tech support folks have been telling customers that have been calling about this. I'm going to explain exactly and in detail what they have told me was going on and what they have been telling customers since day one and for months since. The reply to this should be.. interesting, if only to see what kind of spin they attempt.
Delete some demos? I never have less than 5 gig available at any given time. I've bought a dozen XBLA titles, and have 6 demos downloaded.
O_o
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
Think of it like EB/Gamestop's return policy. Once upon a time they were very forgiving, allowing you to return games for practically any reason long after the initial purchase. Then some douches decided to use it as their personal rental service because "lol they allow it!" and what do you know, it's nigh impossible to return even a used game now.
Hmm? It's 14 days, with receipt. I've used it to return games that turned out to suck any number of times. Great way to promote used sales, really.
The bolded part I can believe. When I was working tech support for a major garage door opener, there was a series of MAJOR fuckups the company put into the products design. They didn't tell us anything about the problem nor what to say to the people that called up with the problem, and so we had to literally make something up that sounded plausible. For the first few days each tech was saying something different when the problems started to get reported, after a week we noticed something wasn't right, but the higher ups still didn't tell us what was going on, so we all sat down and agreed on something to say to people with the problem.
Eventually we were told what was going on and what we were telling the customers was close to what was going on, but was still off by enough that when the story changed the people who we had been dealing with for months on this issue called bullshit and we lost a lot of business.
except it's not pirating ...
It's in the EULA for crying out loud. TWO liscenses are granted, one for the console downloading the content, and one for the gamertag doing the downloading. Unless they change the EULA there will continue to absolutely nothing morally or legally wrong with splitting the two liscenses granted between two users.
As for the issue of point refunds, Microsoft Customer Service stated to me on seperate occasions that it was perfectly fine to use the point refund on ANY content I wanted. They stated "the content you can't access while offline is considered to be defective". I asked them specifically if I had to redownload the old content or if I could use the points to purchase new content - they said I could use the points however I want.
Seeing as Microsoft Customer Service said this is ok, I'm not going to argue with them.
Honestly Aoi I don't understand why you're trying to fight a non existant battle. MS has made clear in the EULA what customer's are allowed to do with Marketplace content. If they really thought it was a big deal, they'd change the EULA.
Also folks, I've had a few buddies so outraged by the email response (pack of lies was their wording I believe) that they want to write up letters for me to send to MS to show exactly how "happy" customers are about what's going on. If anybody else wants to write a similar letter I'd be more than happy to forward it with my reply.
Also one friend said that when they had a video showing the transfer kit and how it worked on xbox.com not once during the video does the guy demoing it mention that you'd lose the ability to use your content offline. If any of you guys could help me find that video it would be incredibly appreciated.
Wow this was originally going to be a simple article, but it seems to be growing into something much bigger than I ever expected it to be. This looks like it may take a while to really get to the bottom of, and I hope when I finally post it, it can get proper legs to go out and really change these problems for everybody.
Actually, they got sued because someone found out those returned games went back on the shelves, and decided that they were used and was lied to, etc. The company changed the return policy in response.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
Please link me to the EULA. I mean other than sharing accounts being a bannable offense on Live, I would love to see the EULA for the Live arcade games.
Again dude, I'm not fighting a battle. You're using a loophole that was meant for people to bring a game to their friends house in a way to cheat the system and give away a game for free. Justify it all you want, but next time you're talking to one of the developers you've shilled your way into talking to, ask them how much they would appreciate what you're doing.
As for the points, yeah, some call center douche making 7 dollars an hour is going to get all hot and bothered. Of course they don't care.
Again, whatever Bam, whatever helps you justify this shit, but you're still no better than some bittorrenting, rom playing douche when it comes to this stuff, and it's shit like this that will only make them lock everything that much tighter in the future. I mean hell Bam, why the hell do you think they're so damned reluctant now to give point refunds? Congrats!
Next time you go to download a premium piece of content on XBLA read the agreement (I believe it pops up just before you pay for the content ... it's been awhile since I checked it out). The agreement states very specifically that by purchasing the content you are purchasing 2 liscenses, 1 for the actual 360 downloading the content, and 1 for the gamertag downloading the content.
There's no need to make this personal Kirin, although I do know how upset you get when you've been proven wrong. Resorting to personal attacks though is kinda low. Like I said before maybe you should read what you're agreeing to, next time you go to download a piece of marketplace content. The agreement is crystal clear in regards to what you are purchasing.
I'm sure they care about their jobs. My 360 has broken down twice so far and BOTH times I asked the reps I spoke with if I could use the (refunded) points to download all new content ... and both times they said yes. It wasn't like the question wasn't asked clearly.
So what if they work in a call centre? They still acting as official MS representatives. It's not my responsibility to make sure they know what they are talking about. I assume that MS has trained them properly and the information they are giving is correct. Considering the same thing has been said to me twice by two different agents on two different occasions, I'm going to go with MS's policy on the issue rather than your holier than thou rantings.
The ironic thing is that I've never actually done the liscense splitting thing although I'm well aware of how it works, and have no problem with customers excersing the rights given to them in the agreements they sign. The difference between a "bittorrenting, rom playing douche" and somebody splitting an XBLA piece of content with a friend is legality.
Ethically what makes bittorrenting wrong is that it's illegal, and dozens if not hundreds of people are stealing a game without paying the content creator, generally distributed illegally as well.
With XBLA titles, it's a totally different situation. Devs are still being payed, customers are simply adhering to the legal terms they agreed to when downloading the XBLA content --- which specifically states 2 liscenes are granted one for the console downloading the content and one for the gamertag doing the downloading. This is not hard to understand.
The bottom line is that we see the issue differently. Unlike you however, I respect your right to feel how you wish on the issue. It's unfortunate that you've chosen to throw personal attacks at me, however, perhaps we should agree to disagree?
The reason they tie it to both gamertag and console, is that some consoles have multiple gamertags. There are alot of families that have several kids playing on the same 360 ... if it was tied only to gamertag then you'd have to buy multiple copies of the same game so that each gamertag gets liscensed.
To overcome this problem, MS created a liscensing system whereby there are 2 liscences granted when you buy content -- 1 liscense tied to the console downloading the content (allowing any gamertag on that console to access the content), and 1 liscense tied to the gamertag doing the download.
The only problem with that is that you would end up having to stay logged into Live the entire time, and would leave people without a constant connection a bit SOL, unfortunately. It's a good idea in theory though.
As for the EULA stuff, one, that blub that they have up isn't the EULA any more than the one they give you when you're paying your Live account on the marketplace is. You've always been impossible to talk to Bam, and I'll drop it til I get a full copy of the EULA back from MS within the next week, but again, you're using a loophole, and justifying your actions by twisting the vague words given to you to suit your own ends, just like most other software, movie and music pirates do. No one cares if you do it, just don't try to justify it.
Also, here's a nice little challenge. The next time your site does an interview with an arcade developer, stick the question in there with regards to this, see how they react to it. And dude, you flat out said over on 360a back in the day that you've done it many times with a friend's 360, don't backtrack now.
I NEVER said that I've "done it many times on a friend's 360", that is a flat out lie. Find the thread I dare you. The bottom line is that sadly at my age I don't HAVE any (real life) friends that play games anymore.
What I said specifically at 360A is that I've gotten point refunds in the past after my system broke down and used those points to buy new content. AFTER asking the rep I was dealing with if this was ok. Keep in mind as well these weren't regular front line CS reps. These were the escelation reps, the senior guys that know exactly what they can and cannot do. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they knew what they were talking about.
And yes I have worked in a call centre when I was younger, hell who hasn't? Call centres became the waitering jobs of the 90's and early 2000's for starving students and recent grads to make a few bucks.
Really though, all of this aside, it is unclear to me why you've chosen to drag this sorry ass argument out here again on these forums and the drama that comes with it. I asked a PA mod awhile back it was ok to talk about the 2 liscense thing and they said yes, it's not considered pirating on these forums. I believe Echo also said this earlier in the thread.
*edit* taken argument to PM's and agreed that both of us will drop it.
Actually, not at all. You don't have to do that with Steam. You can just use offline mode. You only have to be online during the downloading process.