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I think that the Mega Drive Sonic games have some of the best gaming soundtracks ever made. I have the Starlight zone theme on my Mp3 player and would pay good money to see the Mystic Cave music being played by a real band
This right here is the reason I want Sonic added to the new Smash Bros roster.
Orchestration-a-go-go!
Tig on
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Waka LakaRiding the stuffed UnicornIf ya know what I mean.Registered Userregular
I think that the Mega Drive Sonic games have some of the best gaming soundtracks ever made. I have the Starlight zone theme on my Mp3 player and would pay good money to see the Mystic Cave music being played by a real band
This right here is the reason I want Sonic added to the new Smash Bros roster.
Orchestration-a-go-go!
Okay, I made a serious post very early on, so I feel justified in bringing this little boneheaded idea forward.
Robotnik/Eggman's theme songs (for boss battles, cinematics, whatever) should have bagpipes in them. No, I'm serious. Take any of the boss themes from Sonic 1 or 2 and start playing them in your head, then swap out a bagpipe for the lead synth. It's eerily appropriate, especially with the marching-drum style basslines in the Sonic 2 boss themes.
Just thought I'd throw that out there.
You made me go track down the music becasue my memories are hazy, but holy fuck, it's almost crazy enough to work. I think that the Mega Drive Sonic games have some of the best gaming soundtracks ever made. I have the Starlight zone theme on my Mp3 player and would pay good money to see the Mystic Cave music being played by a real band
So, OCRemix anyone? Robotnik. Bagpipes. Someone needs to talk to them.
Where did TSR go? I'm really interested in knowing what he said and how the meeting went.
I'm in the process of re-playing through S3&K...and it really is the best platforming game I've ever played. Amazing is really the only word for it. (However the fucking sphere bonus stages make me want to rip my hair out)
And after playing it and comparing with the modern Sonics, it's painfully apparent that they really went away from the platforming elements in favor of "olol look how fast sonic can go" which...really sucks. I mean, the original 2-d sonics had parts where you could really fucking fly, and they were awesome. In moderation. But it was balanced HEAVILY by really great platforming. I don't feel the need to be sprinting full speed the entire level, and that's where the new sonics fall short. Sonic rush was good--I'll admit--but again it focused a lot more on speed. It had more platforming elements, which is a step in the right direction...but I think if Sega has any hope of making a good sonic game, they have to go back to their roots and build from there.
Crazyfool on
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Waka LakaRiding the stuffed UnicornIf ya know what I mean.Registered Userregular
edited September 2007
TSR MAEK WITH DA SEXAY POSTINGS!
We wanna know whats going on.
Seriously, someone go and kick his door down amd see if he died or something.
He's around. I assume he's just been heavily NDAd, to the point where he isn't even supposed to tell people that he met with them.
That's a fairly good sign, since if they just gathered opinions and kicked him out the door, he'd probably be allowed to talk about it. On the other hand, they could have claimed intellectual property on everything he said, and barred him from talking about it even if they aren't planning to use it.
They decided he has more of a clue about Sonic than anyone that works at SEGA, and are forcing him to design and code the next game. He is currently being held in a secure underground bunker until the project is completed.
Barrakketh on
Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
Okay, I made a serious post very early on, so I feel justified in bringing this little boneheaded idea forward.
Robotnik/Eggman's theme songs (for boss battles, cinematics, whatever) should have bagpipes in them. No, I'm serious. Take any of the boss themes from Sonic 1 or 2 and start playing them in your head, then swap out a bagpipe for the lead synth. It's eerily appropriate, especially with the marching-drum style basslines in the Sonic 2 boss themes.
Just thought I'd throw that out there.
...Shit. That sounds like a terrible idea, but then when you stop and really think about it, it surprisingly works really well.
My ideas/opinions aren't that original so excuse me if this has already been said and is really messy as this is a spur of the moment thing. If any of this sounds stupid then feel free to leave it out.
I would love to see the last level take place in a huge factory set to Daft Punk's "Harder Better Faster Stronger" or something similar where the music is timed to everything (a little ambitious and not likely, I know). You first start off outside with swarms of robots taking off for the crowded skies like some 1940s war propaganda movie and moments later,enter The Factory (or a much cooler name that rocks as I suck at names). You're greeted with security cameras and multiple monitors littered everywhere displaying Dr. Robotnick's ugly mug ala TMNT: The Arcade Game or Bioshock as you're running throughout the stage (having him laugh at you everytime you get hurt by a robot or other piece of machinery would be a nice touch). As you're descending lower into the factory, the music builds up and the assembling of machinery becomes more complex. This level doesn't just have the standard assembly lines though. It should have all kinds of robotic arm welders, sparks, monitors displaying various statistics, vats full of melted metal, corkscrews, chutes, fans for cooling off materials and all kinds of other stuff to make it feel like a cohesive working factory. Keep in mind that every action is timed like Rez.
Then you get to the mid boss which is a series of quick robotic doppleganger fights (you're still running, the action does not stop, ever) against Tails constantly flying and weilding a minigun in his hands, Knuckles, Sonic, Shadow with a revolver, winged mech versions of them with swords (if that's your thing) and/or whatever else you want. After destroying all of them, that's when you realize this factory is where Dr. Robotnick turns all those little critters into robots. Have all the animals crying their hearts out and the machinery act appropriately in the background and/or foreground. Essentially what I want is the end product flying outside and you running deeper into the level, discovering the origin of how it's all made.
End it all with a series of previous boss fights (like Zelda where you get to take a trip down memory lane and preferably, seeing them all assembled earlier in the level.) then top it off with one massive boss like Sonic 2 except with a mech that looks much, much cooler and intimidating. Once the final boss is defeated, Robotnick will, with his last ounce of strength, push a self destruct button to try and take you down with him. There shouldn't be a time limit since most people don't really like being timed, but there needs to be a more original way to create tension for the last final moments than just explosions, collapsing debris and a countdown. You should definitely add a room full of trapped critters at the end, like in Super Metroid except bigger. Encapsulated in those pod containment units, have Sonic (or not, maybe have this part optional) jump on the first and then run across every last one of them in a long row, freeing as many critters as you can, as you're escaping the place. Another idea for the end game could be going back the way you came, climbing back up as a metaphorical losing hope and gaining it back again sort of thing. I don't think that would end up being any fun though as the physics in 2D Sonic games don't really allow you to climb up slopes fast right? In the end, do whatever you think will make almost everyone feel awesome.
Since Sonic has encountered many a problem since leaving the Megadrive, I’ll try and take how I would fix him issue by issue. Get ready for one great big tl;dr article.
Gameplay: One of the most crippling problems with Sonic games today is that the gameplay that brought us to Sonic in the first place no longer exists. The transition to 3D seemed to woefully confuse SEGA about what Sonic games should be like in three dimensions, and thus they just gave it their best shot; Sonic Adventure. As we’re all well aware, it wasn’t good enough. Almost all Sonic games are based upon the false notion that the games are entirely focused on speed and blasting your way through the levels as quickly as possible. If you replay the original trilogy of Sonic games, you’ll see this just isn’t the case. The games offer a fine balance of platforming and speed, often aided by unique level design, yet the games themselves are far from ‘fast’, they’re just quite streamlined. Many recent Sonic titles (both 3D and 2D) have tried to make Sonic 100% speed and have produced very dire titles. This is just not the way it should be, as Sega are neglecting one of the core aspects of the games themselves.
However, this doesn’t mean that they should forgo the speed aspect altogether. Sonic’s speed is an integral part of his character and it would be silly of Sega not to take advantage of that to further the gameplay, but in trying to do so they’ve more or less shot Sonic in the foot. Levels in Sonic games now feel as though they’re simply paths to be run along, which almost always makes backtracking a nightmare. We should be given more balanced worlds for Sonic to use his abilities – not just his feet – allowing us to really explore the world he’s in. That was half of the fun of Sonic; slowing down the pace, backtracking, deviating from the ‘normal’ level path in order to find cool little shortcuts or niches with power-ups. It made for great replay value, since the stages just kept on giving. These days there’s not much of that, S06 tried to emulate the feel with multiple paths, yet maintain the breakneck speed. Whilst this had good intentions, it was cocked up in execution.
Should Sega keep their expansive cast around, then multiple gameplay styles are to be expected, yet this is another aspect they’ve screwed up as ‘gameplay’ has morphed into ‘gimmicks’. In Adventure it was nice and varied a total of six different styles that (with the exception of Big) all made for good gameplay aspects, despite being different. Adventure 2 and especially Heroes saw a decline in quality, whilst Shadow lumbered us with guns and vehicles that were pretty much abhorred from day one. Get rid of them. Start again and think of ways to balance out each character’s movelists without making them one-trick ponies. Sonic games should concentrate more on design decisions then fancy extras, the main draw is on decided gameplay.
Hub areas should probably be removed, as they often kill the pacing with their inane attempts at puzzle solving to advance (if nothing else, make the stupid side-quests non compulsory). Just have the characters progress from one stage smoothly into the next, with some logic to it (no going from emerald hills to chemical plants, for instance). If Sega were feeling particularly bothered, perhaps even have the terrain alter as you near the end of the level. Cutscenes can be used if the change is that important to the plot; the short ones at the start of certain Heroes levels would be enough, though.
Another integral pointer is that, in the old days, the collecting of the Chaos Emerals wasn’t entirely needed to complete the game. They were a bonus that made the player feel accomplished when they powered-up to Super Sonic. Whilst they were needed in Sonic 3 & Knuckles for that all-important final battle, they weren’t the goal of every level; they were something the player had to unlock themselves. This, I feel, is how it should be in 3D Sonic. Chaos Emeralds should be an optional aspect of the game (allowing for more replay value), and also allow players to turn into Super Sonic in the normal levels; letting them blast through walls, enemies and fly around with unlimited power in their hands…till those 50 rings run dry, at least. Super shouldn’t just be the one who pops up for the final boss fight.
Design elements: Back in the Megadrive days, Sonic was vying to dethrone Mario, bringing with him a bright and colourful world to counter Mario’s own. Since then, its become more and more apparent that these vibrant level designs have vanished from the face of Sonic’s games. He’s lost his originality and has instead been dumped in an oft-bland world with a load of smegging humans. This, along with the gameplay, has seriously hurt Sonic because he lacks the iconic items and level aspects that once made him great. Designs such as checkboard tiles just seem to say ‘Sonic’ more than anything in the recent 3D titles.
Ironically, Heroes came the closest to reviving this aspect of Sonic, and was probably one of the few things the game actually did right. Though it seems that the universal slamming of Heroes caused Sega to think this the wrong approach, which is a shame. I again refer to the glaring flaw that all Sonic levels have been reduced to glorified paths to run along. It just doesn’t evoke a feel of an all-rounded game, since backtracking is horrifying. Coupled with the path-like levels is the fact that all the levels are now situated in giant pits, this often hinders the game’s overall appeal. Pits should be obstacles for the player to dodge, not a constant threat that, should they nudge the thumbstick in one direction too harshly, they’ll plummet to their death. Zones such as Radical Train, Aquatic Base and the second half of White Acropolis were a massive step in the right direction terms of design, but it just wasn’t enough.
Grind-rails are another recurring problem; in SA2 they were nice, but since they they’ve gone insanely overboard and its just not fun anymore. In trying to give Sonic something iconic again, they’ve botched it up by making it one of the most hated aspects of his games. Plummeting to your demise just because of glitchy controls over an abyss is not fun after the sixth or seventh time.
‘Mach Speed Zones’ seem to personify the way Sonic’s slipping recently. Whilst they’re a neat idea that – in theory – let Sonic show off his speed, I think they’re horribly out of place and should either be refined or dropped. Preferably the latter. Furthermore, Shadow’s vehicles are not needed; stop forcing them down our throats.
To put it simply, Sega should be approaching a new Sonic title with the notion of “What is Sonic’s world was real” rather than “What if Sonic was in the real world”, as there’s a good margin of difference. Give Sonic some room to breath and there will doubtless be at least some improvements to his gameplay. If they can bring Sonic’s old world to life again, his franchise might just come back with it.
Technical problems: Ever since Sonic Adventure, Sonic’s been plagued by problems in 3D. The most infamous of which is the camera, which is remarkably spastic and generally unreliable. It has a habit of just veering off at critical moments, and is often utter rubbish in tight spaces. It fluctuates from “decent” to “falling into the abyss” at the drop of a hat, and Sega seems to have made no effort to fix it over the space of two gaming generations. This needs to stop. Either edit the existing camera system to work properly, or start again from scratch. It’s unacceptable in this day and age.
Another problem that has yet to be solved is how loose, for want of a better word, Sonic feels in-game. It feels as though with one tiny nudge you’ll slip of the edge of a platform and die, which the games themselves prove true more often than not. It seems that due to being coded with intense speed, Sonic can’t handle moving small distances and thus feels very ‘loose’ when you’re trying to negotiate around smaller platforms which – as always in modern 3D Sonic games – are suspended over an infinite abyss. For a platformer, this is somewhat pathetic. Games such as Treyarch’s Spider-Man 2 gave us a character that was blindingly fast (once you've got all the speed upgrades) and super-agile, yet the controls and camera always keep up with him. As Spider-Man you can easily run full pelt along a road, leap into the air, run along the side of a building, launch yourself off the side of the building and then use it and the other building across the street to pinball yourself up to the rooftops, before diving off, grabbing a lamp-post, swinging round it and sending yourself off again. And at all times you feel completely in control.
If SonicTeam want to put Sonic’s inherent speed to good, creative use then that’s what a 3D Sonic game should be like; complete creative freedom with his speed around an exploration-filled area, with damn tight controls.
Finally, all Sonic games need adequate beta testing to ensure that players don’t just drop through the floor of the level at certain points. That’s just shoddy.
Writing: If Sonic is truly to be brought back, a good first move for Sega would be to hire writers who actually have some concept of characterisation, continuity and non-cringe-inducing dialogue. Its clear that they shouldn’t keep clinging onto this notion that Sonic is ‘cool’ when Sega’s definition of cool is to have Sonic spew out things such as “Aw, yeah! This is happenin!” and other such garbage. Sonic’s character is about style and flair, so evoking this in his in-game movements and expressions would be a good step in the right direction (a good example is how Sonic tapped that stunned Badnik with his foot in S06, then flashed a grin as it crashed. Things like that should happen more often). Whilst I’m not going to say that Sega should remove Sonic’s voice altogether, they definitely need to find a way of making him less…annoying. If that means cutting back his dialogue, then so be it.
The other main issue is the ‘plot’ of each game, which seem to have slipped further with each passing title. We shouldn’t need an extra “Big Bad” out of nowhere in order to spice things up; Robotnik should be able to do this all on his own, with his own contraptions. Chaos was a fine first offence, because his betrayal showed how truly dangerous he was and thus amped up the stakes. Then SonicTeam ran it into the ground. If nothing else, it makes the games utterly predictable and dire to play, since you can see how it’ll all turn out a universe away. It also damages Robotnik’s image as the villain of the piece, since he’s reduced to merely the bumbling idiot when he should be one running the show (this is one of the few things S06 truly got right, as they made Robotnik a truly menacing and manipulating presence again, so much so that Mephiles expected coup didn’t seem that bad).
Because of this godawful trend, I don’t think SonicTeam should try and go “Epic” for a long, long time. Since they’ve more or less proven they can’t write.
The Chaos Emerals have also had any possible mythos grinded into powder by Sega constantly screwing around with their supposed history. It also seems like they can’t make a new plot without making the emeralds (and any new characters) the thing that pushes the plot forward. The characters should be able to stand on their own feet without the need of seven plot devices, as should the plots of the games themselves. The emeralds can still be the thing that gives the player a bonus piece of the story, but it shouldn't be a staunch requirement. The game’s story mode should still round itself off nicely without the collection of all seven emeralds.
Characters: As almost everyone knows, Sonic games have become bogged down by the overbearing weight of too many characters than Sega know what to do with. Whenever Sonic has a new game, Sega feel compelled to add new characters in order to create conflict and an actual plot of some kind (because using their existing cast just wouldn’t work, y’know?). The latest example of this is Marine the Raccoon, without whom Sonic Rush Adventure has no plot. As a result, Sega have a massive roster of characters that just take up space after their role has been fulfilled, adding nothing to the franchise despite Sega trying to shoe-horn them into every game. Shadow’s game was bad enough, but when almost the entire Sonic cast showed up things just continued to drop. Sega either need to have a mass culling of characters or learn to balance Sonic’s cast around several games, allowing characters to have lulls and eventual returns (not show up once then vanish for a decade, or be in every game for nearly five years). I was genuinely waiting for the Chaotix to show up in S06, which shows you how bad the situation has gotten, and almost half the characters present for S06 just plain weren’t needed (Here’s looking at you Rouge, Tails, Knuckles and Omega). Whats more, Sega can’t seem to make each character stand out, causing certain characters to suffer as the spotlight shifts. Tails has gotten progressively boring since SA2 and Knuckles has been demoted from Sonic’s once staunch, dynamic rival to a gullible idiot thanks to Sega pouring all of their ‘attitude’ into Shadow as a new adversary.
Characters such as Rouge and Silver do nothing for the franchise as a whole, whilst Shadow shows just how desperate Sega are to try and connect to the younger gamers of today (to be fair, they pulled him off almost flawlessly in SA2, but then he cheated death and he lost all character direction, which in turn resulted in his travesty of a game. Sega then turned him into a vehicle for “EXTREME!!”) and has been sucked dry by Sega for all he’s worth, so he now just kicks around each and every game trying to be ‘badass’. Cream and Big appeal to no one, despite what Sega thinks, and the Babylon Rogues were a bad idea. Marine and Blaze are likable, and should probably be used more than other secondary characters.
If Sega were to reset their roster, than restricting themselves to Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy Rose would be a good set to start with. If they felt the need to expand, then the likes of the Chaotix (including Mighty, to shut the fanbase up) would be more than adequate additions. Each one could bring a unique personality to the table that would bounce off the other characters and make for a fun experience, so long as it was done right. I myself am also fond of Blaze and Nack, but if they had to go then so be it.
Relationships between characters should be strengthened or restored, such as the iconic duo of Sonic and Tails coming back into play (as opposed to Tails occasionally showing up to be a minor character), Knuckles’ rivalry with Sonic etc. Amy’s character should also be toned down to how it was at the end of her Sonic Adventure storyline; she’ll chase Sonic when she feels like it, but she’ll be her own person and try to win Sonic over by deed, not by trying to hug him to death.
Dr. Robotnik: As I already said, the plot of almost all 3D games has seriously hurt the reputation of one doctor Ivo Robotnik. Only in the recent Sonic Next-Gen did he return to his serious and menacing glory, and it was truly a sight to behold. Sega need to restore Robotnik to his former status as Big Bad by having at least a couple of games with him as the sole antagonist to Sonic & co. And it’s not as if there’s nothing to work with; he’s a megalomaniac with an army of robots under his command. There’s plenty of material for game plots within that simply layout alone, as Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles prove easily.
Retaining his realistic look and serious demeanour, I feel, would be an excellent decision on part of Sega, since it counters Sonic’s flamboyant, cocky nature quite well, as does his dry humour (“Wouldn’t the door have been easier?”). His S06 image just exudes charisma and menace, which for the primary villain is a must. Changing his name back to Robotnik is also probably a good idea, since every single casual gamer I know complains about this. By all means keep “Eggman” as an insult hurled by Sonic, but as his name it leaves a bad taste. Keeping with the theme of threat would be to make the Badniks menacing alongside their master; harsh, metallic creatures who only know how to destroy as opposed to the bumbling (and annoying) Egg Pawns of recent games. They should have genuine AI, and be able to attack Sonic with a fair bit of effort as opposed to being static targets (more or less). Buzzbombers being a genuine airborne threat akin to war wasps of Metroid Prime would be fantastic. To give you an idea of how even traditional Badniks can be made to look menacing, get a load of this.
Also, one thing that kept us on our toes during Sonics 1 through 3 were the various deadly machines that Robotnik would throw at us (well…perhaps not the swinging ball) at the end of every Zone. These have been missing all but entirely from 3D Sonic games, and I think its robbed the doctor of something that makes him unique. Sure, we’ve had machines like Egg Hornet, Viper and Hawk, but in comparison to his machines from days of old they just don’t show up enough and are – for a new age of gamers – very bland easy to beat. Robotnik should confront us at the end of each level with a contraption that only a madman would use (putting an older boss into words; “A machine with 8 flying balls around it that spin after the enemy and can expand into a mini Robotnik to go after them too.” sums this up nicely). Recurring boss battles are far more fun that just sliding into a Goal Ring, and will allow the games much more challenge and creative flare, as each machine (like on the Megadrive) would be distinct. We need really nasty looking mechs to match Robotnik’s plans for entire planet (A Shadow of the Colossus scale Robotnik mech as a final boss would be a great idea). Yet, I think the bosses should be more difficult in terms of how you defeat them, rather than stuttering and exposing a giant, flashing red weak spot at regular intervals. The player should have to think on their feet in a 3D era in order to beat Robotnik’s latest mean machine…until next time, at least.
Robotnik can be salvaged more easily than the rest of Sonic’s problems can, as shown by S06. They just need to push it that little bit further and we’ll be right on track.
There's no way he's forgotton, what with the automatic subscriptions and the fact that this keeps getting bumped up. He has to be heavily NDA'd, to the point where he can't even mention the NDA.
Heh, he's almost certainly been reading all of this speculation.
What's he gonna spoil? Sonic runs fast? Robotnik is threatening the good guys again? Theres a new turqoise hedgehog named Aqua and he can control waves with his mind bullets?
Does anyone else think they should also ditch the Chao? I never liked them in the first place; they just don't fit with the rest of the Sonic cast...
I thought that they were a really, really, really fun sidegame that you could enjoy if you didn't feel like playing the main part or you had beat it already.
And to be quite honest with you, the only time Sega has ever confined its games to one system was when it was still making hardware.
It still released PC versions of some of the games and it supported both the Mega Drive and Master System at the same time with Sonic the Hedgehog having multiple versions.
Sega didn't make the SMS/GG version of sonic 1 and sonic 2 - Aztec did. Sega also didn't make a PC version, they bought up KGen (A sega genesis emulator) and released it, and roms for sonic 1, 2, and 3 on a single CD for the PC. And this was in 1995, 2-4 years after these games had been released.
wow, i never knew sega didn't make the sms versions of sonic.
I do think they are just as good as their megadrive counterparts though.
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This right here is the reason I want Sonic added to the new Smash Bros roster.
Orchestration-a-go-go!
Starlight Zone and Spring Yard Zone FTW.
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I'm in the process of re-playing through S3&K...and it really is the best platforming game I've ever played. Amazing is really the only word for it. (However the fucking sphere bonus stages make me want to rip my hair out)
And after playing it and comparing with the modern Sonics, it's painfully apparent that they really went away from the platforming elements in favor of "olol look how fast sonic can go" which...really sucks. I mean, the original 2-d sonics had parts where you could really fucking fly, and they were awesome. In moderation. But it was balanced HEAVILY by really great platforming. I don't feel the need to be sprinting full speed the entire level, and that's where the new sonics fall short. Sonic rush was good--I'll admit--but again it focused a lot more on speed. It had more platforming elements, which is a step in the right direction...but I think if Sega has any hope of making a good sonic game, they have to go back to their roots and build from there.
We wanna know whats going on.
Seriously, someone go and kick his door down amd see if he died or something.
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They turned him in to a robot. He's going to appear in the next Sonic game.
You must defeat TSR to beat the game.
That's a fairly good sign, since if they just gathered opinions and kicked him out the door, he'd probably be allowed to talk about it. On the other hand, they could have claimed intellectual property on everything he said, and barred him from talking about it even if they aren't planning to use it.
They revealed that Sonic will now be snorting rings.
Lies!
They decided he has more of a clue about Sonic than anyone that works at SEGA, and are forcing him to design and code the next game. He is currently being held in a secure underground bunker until the project is completed.
...Shit. That sounds like a terrible idea, but then when you stop and really think about it, it surprisingly works really well.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
I would love to see the last level take place in a huge factory set to Daft Punk's "Harder Better Faster Stronger" or something similar where the music is timed to everything (a little ambitious and not likely, I know). You first start off outside with swarms of robots taking off for the crowded skies like some 1940s war propaganda movie and moments later,enter The Factory (or a much cooler name that rocks as I suck at names). You're greeted with security cameras and multiple monitors littered everywhere displaying Dr. Robotnick's ugly mug ala TMNT: The Arcade Game or Bioshock as you're running throughout the stage (having him laugh at you everytime you get hurt by a robot or other piece of machinery would be a nice touch). As you're descending lower into the factory, the music builds up and the assembling of machinery becomes more complex. This level doesn't just have the standard assembly lines though. It should have all kinds of robotic arm welders, sparks, monitors displaying various statistics, vats full of melted metal, corkscrews, chutes, fans for cooling off materials and all kinds of other stuff to make it feel like a cohesive working factory. Keep in mind that every action is timed like Rez.
Then you get to the mid boss which is a series of quick robotic doppleganger fights (you're still running, the action does not stop, ever) against Tails constantly flying and weilding a minigun in his hands, Knuckles, Sonic, Shadow with a revolver, winged mech versions of them with swords (if that's your thing) and/or whatever else you want. After destroying all of them, that's when you realize this factory is where Dr. Robotnick turns all those little critters into robots. Have all the animals crying their hearts out and the machinery act appropriately in the background and/or foreground. Essentially what I want is the end product flying outside and you running deeper into the level, discovering the origin of how it's all made.
End it all with a series of previous boss fights (like Zelda where you get to take a trip down memory lane and preferably, seeing them all assembled earlier in the level.) then top it off with one massive boss like Sonic 2 except with a mech that looks much, much cooler and intimidating. Once the final boss is defeated, Robotnick will, with his last ounce of strength, push a self destruct button to try and take you down with him. There shouldn't be a time limit since most people don't really like being timed, but there needs to be a more original way to create tension for the last final moments than just explosions, collapsing debris and a countdown. You should definitely add a room full of trapped critters at the end, like in Super Metroid except bigger. Encapsulated in those pod containment units, have Sonic (or not, maybe have this part optional) jump on the first and then run across every last one of them in a long row, freeing as many critters as you can, as you're escaping the place. Another idea for the end game could be going back the way you came, climbing back up as a metaphorical losing hope and gaining it back again sort of thing. I don't think that would end up being any fun though as the physics in 2D Sonic games don't really allow you to climb up slopes fast right? In the end, do whatever you think will make almost everyone feel awesome.
Gameplay: One of the most crippling problems with Sonic games today is that the gameplay that brought us to Sonic in the first place no longer exists. The transition to 3D seemed to woefully confuse SEGA about what Sonic games should be like in three dimensions, and thus they just gave it their best shot; Sonic Adventure. As we’re all well aware, it wasn’t good enough. Almost all Sonic games are based upon the false notion that the games are entirely focused on speed and blasting your way through the levels as quickly as possible. If you replay the original trilogy of Sonic games, you’ll see this just isn’t the case. The games offer a fine balance of platforming and speed, often aided by unique level design, yet the games themselves are far from ‘fast’, they’re just quite streamlined. Many recent Sonic titles (both 3D and 2D) have tried to make Sonic 100% speed and have produced very dire titles. This is just not the way it should be, as Sega are neglecting one of the core aspects of the games themselves.
However, this doesn’t mean that they should forgo the speed aspect altogether. Sonic’s speed is an integral part of his character and it would be silly of Sega not to take advantage of that to further the gameplay, but in trying to do so they’ve more or less shot Sonic in the foot. Levels in Sonic games now feel as though they’re simply paths to be run along, which almost always makes backtracking a nightmare. We should be given more balanced worlds for Sonic to use his abilities – not just his feet – allowing us to really explore the world he’s in. That was half of the fun of Sonic; slowing down the pace, backtracking, deviating from the ‘normal’ level path in order to find cool little shortcuts or niches with power-ups. It made for great replay value, since the stages just kept on giving. These days there’s not much of that, S06 tried to emulate the feel with multiple paths, yet maintain the breakneck speed. Whilst this had good intentions, it was cocked up in execution.
Should Sega keep their expansive cast around, then multiple gameplay styles are to be expected, yet this is another aspect they’ve screwed up as ‘gameplay’ has morphed into ‘gimmicks’. In Adventure it was nice and varied a total of six different styles that (with the exception of Big) all made for good gameplay aspects, despite being different. Adventure 2 and especially Heroes saw a decline in quality, whilst Shadow lumbered us with guns and vehicles that were pretty much abhorred from day one. Get rid of them. Start again and think of ways to balance out each character’s movelists without making them one-trick ponies. Sonic games should concentrate more on design decisions then fancy extras, the main draw is on decided gameplay.
Hub areas should probably be removed, as they often kill the pacing with their inane attempts at puzzle solving to advance (if nothing else, make the stupid side-quests non compulsory). Just have the characters progress from one stage smoothly into the next, with some logic to it (no going from emerald hills to chemical plants, for instance). If Sega were feeling particularly bothered, perhaps even have the terrain alter as you near the end of the level. Cutscenes can be used if the change is that important to the plot; the short ones at the start of certain Heroes levels would be enough, though.
Another integral pointer is that, in the old days, the collecting of the Chaos Emerals wasn’t entirely needed to complete the game. They were a bonus that made the player feel accomplished when they powered-up to Super Sonic. Whilst they were needed in Sonic 3 & Knuckles for that all-important final battle, they weren’t the goal of every level; they were something the player had to unlock themselves. This, I feel, is how it should be in 3D Sonic. Chaos Emeralds should be an optional aspect of the game (allowing for more replay value), and also allow players to turn into Super Sonic in the normal levels; letting them blast through walls, enemies and fly around with unlimited power in their hands…till those 50 rings run dry, at least. Super shouldn’t just be the one who pops up for the final boss fight.
Design elements: Back in the Megadrive days, Sonic was vying to dethrone Mario, bringing with him a bright and colourful world to counter Mario’s own. Since then, its become more and more apparent that these vibrant level designs have vanished from the face of Sonic’s games. He’s lost his originality and has instead been dumped in an oft-bland world with a load of smegging humans. This, along with the gameplay, has seriously hurt Sonic because he lacks the iconic items and level aspects that once made him great. Designs such as checkboard tiles just seem to say ‘Sonic’ more than anything in the recent 3D titles.
Ironically, Heroes came the closest to reviving this aspect of Sonic, and was probably one of the few things the game actually did right. Though it seems that the universal slamming of Heroes caused Sega to think this the wrong approach, which is a shame. I again refer to the glaring flaw that all Sonic levels have been reduced to glorified paths to run along. It just doesn’t evoke a feel of an all-rounded game, since backtracking is horrifying. Coupled with the path-like levels is the fact that all the levels are now situated in giant pits, this often hinders the game’s overall appeal. Pits should be obstacles for the player to dodge, not a constant threat that, should they nudge the thumbstick in one direction too harshly, they’ll plummet to their death. Zones such as Radical Train, Aquatic Base and the second half of White Acropolis were a massive step in the right direction terms of design, but it just wasn’t enough.
Grind-rails are another recurring problem; in SA2 they were nice, but since they they’ve gone insanely overboard and its just not fun anymore. In trying to give Sonic something iconic again, they’ve botched it up by making it one of the most hated aspects of his games. Plummeting to your demise just because of glitchy controls over an abyss is not fun after the sixth or seventh time.
‘Mach Speed Zones’ seem to personify the way Sonic’s slipping recently. Whilst they’re a neat idea that – in theory – let Sonic show off his speed, I think they’re horribly out of place and should either be refined or dropped. Preferably the latter. Furthermore, Shadow’s vehicles are not needed; stop forcing them down our throats.
To put it simply, Sega should be approaching a new Sonic title with the notion of “What is Sonic’s world was real” rather than “What if Sonic was in the real world”, as there’s a good margin of difference. Give Sonic some room to breath and there will doubtless be at least some improvements to his gameplay. If they can bring Sonic’s old world to life again, his franchise might just come back with it.
Technical problems: Ever since Sonic Adventure, Sonic’s been plagued by problems in 3D. The most infamous of which is the camera, which is remarkably spastic and generally unreliable. It has a habit of just veering off at critical moments, and is often utter rubbish in tight spaces. It fluctuates from “decent” to “falling into the abyss” at the drop of a hat, and Sega seems to have made no effort to fix it over the space of two gaming generations. This needs to stop. Either edit the existing camera system to work properly, or start again from scratch. It’s unacceptable in this day and age.
Another problem that has yet to be solved is how loose, for want of a better word, Sonic feels in-game. It feels as though with one tiny nudge you’ll slip of the edge of a platform and die, which the games themselves prove true more often than not. It seems that due to being coded with intense speed, Sonic can’t handle moving small distances and thus feels very ‘loose’ when you’re trying to negotiate around smaller platforms which – as always in modern 3D Sonic games – are suspended over an infinite abyss. For a platformer, this is somewhat pathetic. Games such as Treyarch’s Spider-Man 2 gave us a character that was blindingly fast (once you've got all the speed upgrades) and super-agile, yet the controls and camera always keep up with him. As Spider-Man you can easily run full pelt along a road, leap into the air, run along the side of a building, launch yourself off the side of the building and then use it and the other building across the street to pinball yourself up to the rooftops, before diving off, grabbing a lamp-post, swinging round it and sending yourself off again. And at all times you feel completely in control.
If SonicTeam want to put Sonic’s inherent speed to good, creative use then that’s what a 3D Sonic game should be like; complete creative freedom with his speed around an exploration-filled area, with damn tight controls.
Finally, all Sonic games need adequate beta testing to ensure that players don’t just drop through the floor of the level at certain points. That’s just shoddy.
Writing: If Sonic is truly to be brought back, a good first move for Sega would be to hire writers who actually have some concept of characterisation, continuity and non-cringe-inducing dialogue. Its clear that they shouldn’t keep clinging onto this notion that Sonic is ‘cool’ when Sega’s definition of cool is to have Sonic spew out things such as “Aw, yeah! This is happenin!” and other such garbage. Sonic’s character is about style and flair, so evoking this in his in-game movements and expressions would be a good step in the right direction (a good example is how Sonic tapped that stunned Badnik with his foot in S06, then flashed a grin as it crashed. Things like that should happen more often). Whilst I’m not going to say that Sega should remove Sonic’s voice altogether, they definitely need to find a way of making him less…annoying. If that means cutting back his dialogue, then so be it.
The other main issue is the ‘plot’ of each game, which seem to have slipped further with each passing title. We shouldn’t need an extra “Big Bad” out of nowhere in order to spice things up; Robotnik should be able to do this all on his own, with his own contraptions. Chaos was a fine first offence, because his betrayal showed how truly dangerous he was and thus amped up the stakes. Then SonicTeam ran it into the ground. If nothing else, it makes the games utterly predictable and dire to play, since you can see how it’ll all turn out a universe away. It also damages Robotnik’s image as the villain of the piece, since he’s reduced to merely the bumbling idiot when he should be one running the show (this is one of the few things S06 truly got right, as they made Robotnik a truly menacing and manipulating presence again, so much so that Mephiles expected coup didn’t seem that bad).
Because of this godawful trend, I don’t think SonicTeam should try and go “Epic” for a long, long time. Since they’ve more or less proven they can’t write.
The Chaos Emerals have also had any possible mythos grinded into powder by Sega constantly screwing around with their supposed history. It also seems like they can’t make a new plot without making the emeralds (and any new characters) the thing that pushes the plot forward. The characters should be able to stand on their own feet without the need of seven plot devices, as should the plots of the games themselves. The emeralds can still be the thing that gives the player a bonus piece of the story, but it shouldn't be a staunch requirement. The game’s story mode should still round itself off nicely without the collection of all seven emeralds.
Characters: As almost everyone knows, Sonic games have become bogged down by the overbearing weight of too many characters than Sega know what to do with. Whenever Sonic has a new game, Sega feel compelled to add new characters in order to create conflict and an actual plot of some kind (because using their existing cast just wouldn’t work, y’know?). The latest example of this is Marine the Raccoon, without whom Sonic Rush Adventure has no plot. As a result, Sega have a massive roster of characters that just take up space after their role has been fulfilled, adding nothing to the franchise despite Sega trying to shoe-horn them into every game. Shadow’s game was bad enough, but when almost the entire Sonic cast showed up things just continued to drop. Sega either need to have a mass culling of characters or learn to balance Sonic’s cast around several games, allowing characters to have lulls and eventual returns (not show up once then vanish for a decade, or be in every game for nearly five years). I was genuinely waiting for the Chaotix to show up in S06, which shows you how bad the situation has gotten, and almost half the characters present for S06 just plain weren’t needed (Here’s looking at you Rouge, Tails, Knuckles and Omega). Whats more, Sega can’t seem to make each character stand out, causing certain characters to suffer as the spotlight shifts. Tails has gotten progressively boring since SA2 and Knuckles has been demoted from Sonic’s once staunch, dynamic rival to a gullible idiot thanks to Sega pouring all of their ‘attitude’ into Shadow as a new adversary.
Characters such as Rouge and Silver do nothing for the franchise as a whole, whilst Shadow shows just how desperate Sega are to try and connect to the younger gamers of today (to be fair, they pulled him off almost flawlessly in SA2, but then he cheated death and he lost all character direction, which in turn resulted in his travesty of a game. Sega then turned him into a vehicle for “EXTREME!!”) and has been sucked dry by Sega for all he’s worth, so he now just kicks around each and every game trying to be ‘badass’. Cream and Big appeal to no one, despite what Sega thinks, and the Babylon Rogues were a bad idea. Marine and Blaze are likable, and should probably be used more than other secondary characters.
If Sega were to reset their roster, than restricting themselves to Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy Rose would be a good set to start with. If they felt the need to expand, then the likes of the Chaotix (including Mighty, to shut the fanbase up) would be more than adequate additions. Each one could bring a unique personality to the table that would bounce off the other characters and make for a fun experience, so long as it was done right. I myself am also fond of Blaze and Nack, but if they had to go then so be it.
Relationships between characters should be strengthened or restored, such as the iconic duo of Sonic and Tails coming back into play (as opposed to Tails occasionally showing up to be a minor character), Knuckles’ rivalry with Sonic etc. Amy’s character should also be toned down to how it was at the end of her Sonic Adventure storyline; she’ll chase Sonic when she feels like it, but she’ll be her own person and try to win Sonic over by deed, not by trying to hug him to death.
Dr. Robotnik: As I already said, the plot of almost all 3D games has seriously hurt the reputation of one doctor Ivo Robotnik. Only in the recent Sonic Next-Gen did he return to his serious and menacing glory, and it was truly a sight to behold. Sega need to restore Robotnik to his former status as Big Bad by having at least a couple of games with him as the sole antagonist to Sonic & co. And it’s not as if there’s nothing to work with; he’s a megalomaniac with an army of robots under his command. There’s plenty of material for game plots within that simply layout alone, as Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles prove easily.
Retaining his realistic look and serious demeanour, I feel, would be an excellent decision on part of Sega, since it counters Sonic’s flamboyant, cocky nature quite well, as does his dry humour (“Wouldn’t the door have been easier?”). His S06 image just exudes charisma and menace, which for the primary villain is a must. Changing his name back to Robotnik is also probably a good idea, since every single casual gamer I know complains about this. By all means keep “Eggman” as an insult hurled by Sonic, but as his name it leaves a bad taste. Keeping with the theme of threat would be to make the Badniks menacing alongside their master; harsh, metallic creatures who only know how to destroy as opposed to the bumbling (and annoying) Egg Pawns of recent games. They should have genuine AI, and be able to attack Sonic with a fair bit of effort as opposed to being static targets (more or less). Buzzbombers being a genuine airborne threat akin to war wasps of Metroid Prime would be fantastic. To give you an idea of how even traditional Badniks can be made to look menacing, get a load of this.
Also, one thing that kept us on our toes during Sonics 1 through 3 were the various deadly machines that Robotnik would throw at us (well…perhaps not the swinging ball) at the end of every Zone. These have been missing all but entirely from 3D Sonic games, and I think its robbed the doctor of something that makes him unique. Sure, we’ve had machines like Egg Hornet, Viper and Hawk, but in comparison to his machines from days of old they just don’t show up enough and are – for a new age of gamers – very bland easy to beat. Robotnik should confront us at the end of each level with a contraption that only a madman would use (putting an older boss into words; “A machine with 8 flying balls around it that spin after the enemy and can expand into a mini Robotnik to go after them too.” sums this up nicely). Recurring boss battles are far more fun that just sliding into a Goal Ring, and will allow the games much more challenge and creative flare, as each machine (like on the Megadrive) would be distinct. We need really nasty looking mechs to match Robotnik’s plans for entire planet (A Shadow of the Colossus scale Robotnik mech as a final boss would be a great idea). Yet, I think the bosses should be more difficult in terms of how you defeat them, rather than stuttering and exposing a giant, flashing red weak spot at regular intervals. The player should have to think on their feet in a 3D era in order to beat Robotnik’s latest mean machine…until next time, at least.
Robotnik can be salvaged more easily than the rest of Sonic’s problems can, as shown by S06. They just need to push it that little bit further and we’ll be right on track.
My two pence.
Sega hired him and he's no longer allowed to talk about Sonic.
Ever again.
Which means no more "homemade Sonic" threads, or even the word Sonic coming out of his mouth.
Maybe he'll just go back to talking about WonderBoy in Monster World.
Heh, he's almost certainly been reading all of this speculation.
Dude, don't say that too loud. SEGA might be listening.
I just recieved a cease and desist letter from them.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
This thread will exist until the 1st of April and we'll get a nice big laugh out of it all.
I thought that they were a really, really, really fun sidegame that you could enjoy if you didn't feel like playing the main part or you had beat it already.
Yeah... Even just saying, "It happened but I can't talk about about it" would be nice.
Then I went to the site. But it was French.
Luckily I took seven years of French. That and it was easy as shit to navigate anyways.
Voila.
wow, i never knew sega didn't make the sms versions of sonic.
I do think they are just as good as their megadrive counterparts though.
Don't be an image-leaching dickbag.
Also, if he had to sign an NDA, it more than likely states that he isn't allowed to divulge any info whatsoever. Even that "it" happened.