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Making a definative committment to a relationship in some form increases your satisfaction with it. Having one eye on the door (or other people) makes the ride a lot rougher.
It's always interesting to note that in the long run, people in arranged marriages end up with higher contentment and satisfaction regarding their partner than people in normal western marriages. Decreasing choice in some way seems to be beneficial in the long run.
I really, really have a problem with this.
I'm not advocating arranged marriage dude. I'm just pointing out that there is a correlation between not having one eye on the door and contentment.
I know you aren't. What I have a problem with is what you're trying to imply with the correlation.
edit: just saw your edit. what i said holds true for any kind of commitment, not just marriage.
for instance, moving in together is a commitment, no? yeah, i think it's a bad idea to move in with your s/o in order to discourage her from having an eye on other men.
I see where Shinto's coming from, and I said something similar in a prior thread.
Discontentment comes from a mismatch between your expectations and reality - simple cognitive dissonance. Our culture does not encourage people to lower their unrealistic expectations... we're told, whether it's by dating websites or magazines or ads for beauty products, that we can attract and deserve to attract somebody gorgeous, intelligent, successful, and fabulous; even if we're only moderately attractive, relatively bright, stably employed, and not-too-bad. We're told that anything less is "settling," which is a dirty word.
Being told, "This is your spouse, now live with it" probably discourages unrealistic expectations. You're then forced to appreciate this person for who they are, rather than be resentful towards them for who they're not, if you don't want to spend your remaining years in misery.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Making a definative committment to a relationship in some form increases your satisfaction with it. Having one eye on the door (or other people) makes the ride a lot rougher.
It's always interesting to note that in the long run, people in arranged marriages end up with higher contentment and satisfaction regarding their partner than people in normal western marriages. Decreasing choice in some way seems to be beneficial in the long run.
I really, really have a problem with this.
I'm not advocating arranged marriage dude. I'm just pointing out that there is a correlation between not having one eye on the door and contentment.
I know you aren't. What I have a problem with is what you're trying to imply with the correlation.
edit: just saw your edit. what i said holds true for any kind of commitment, not just marriage.
for instance, moving in together is a commitment, no? yeah, i think it's a bad idea to move in with your s/o in order to discourage her from having an eye on other men.
You are misunderstanding me.
When I say "commitment" I mean inner commitment. Not various property or legal arrangements.
It's like the old joke about the 100-year-old bachelor. An orderly at his nursing home asked him, "Never found the perfect woman, huh?" He replied, "Oh, I found her. But she was looking for the perfect man."
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Theres an old saying that goes along the lines of "don't marry the person you love, love the person you marry"... and while I don't really agree with it, since I think the emotion of love is important in a relationship, I understand its general meaning.
People now are selfish.. the more choice they have because the world is "smaller" now, the more they feel they can hold out for the perfect person, they are also more willing to ditch someone for giving into the basic human reaction to admire an attractive member of the appropriate gender and assume that because they look, they will touch.
Historically, when adultery was a terrible sin and divorce something that would hang over you like a cloud in society, and people had far less choice over who they married.. there were perfectly successful relationships that lasted all their life, where people learned to care about the people they were with even if they were not "perfect" and in some cases they didn't even know, let alone love, the person they married.
Now for me, when it comes to eyeing up cute women who are not my wife... I got no problem, I'm lucky, my wife points them out in the street.. but its a "look but don't touch" thing... if more people were able to understand that simply being physically attracted to someone doesn't equal love, and others understand that once you make a commitment, its your responsibility to see it through if you possibly can, there might be more successful relationships going.
On the note about online dating.. I don't know about the websites dedicated too it, but I do know that it works to meet someone online through common interests.. thats how I met my wife.
I see where Shinto's coming from, and I said something similar in a prior thread.
Discontentment comes from a mismatch between your expectations and reality - simple cognitive dissonance. Our culture does not encourage people to lower their unrealistic expectations... we're told, whether it's by dating websites or magazines or ads for beauty products, that we can attract and deserve to attract somebody gorgeous, intelligent, successful, and fabulous; even if we're only moderately attractive, relatively bright, stably employed, and not-too-bad. We're told that anything less is "settling," which is a dirty word.
Being told, "This is your spouse, now live with it" probably discourages unrealistic expectations. You're then forced to appreciate this person for who they are, rather than be resentful towards them for who they're not, if you don't want to spend your remaining years in misery.
Right, but there is also the opposite side of that same coin. A lot of people stay in their relationship -- to use the terminology you used, they "settle" -- because it is more convenient to stay than to leave and start looking for someone else. Not necessarily someone better in the absolute sense, but someone who is a better "match", i.e. someone with whom they can get along better.
And I think you're erring when you state that attraction is based purely on traits like intelligence and good looks and possessions like cars and boats. There are a lot of extremely "high quality" people who are married to people who, on the outside, appear unexceptional. And the reason is that -- someone mentioned this earlier -- regardless of who people may be on the outside, they share something special with their significant other and that makes them more attracted to each other.
In this sense, I think the culture is somewhat right on the whole "you can attract someone who is gorgeous, intelligent, successful, and fabulous" thing.
As far as deserving such a person goes, however, not quite. Deserving is a function of effort put in, both to becoming a better person (in all aspects, not just physical), and learning to present that person to the outside world in a way that attracts quality people.
And I think you're erring when you state that attraction is based purely on traits like intelligence and good looks and possessions like cars and boats.
That's not what I said at all.
I was describing a cultural message that I perceive to be extant in our society.
In any case, even if your criteria for attraction have nothing to do with intelligence, physical attractiveness, or wealth, it's still possible to have unrealistic expectations. The point I was trying to make is that people often develop grocery lists of what they want out of a partner rather than relating to human beings as human beings.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I was describing a cultural message that I perceive to be extant in our society.
In any case, even if your criteria for attraction have nothing to do with intelligence, physical attractiveness, or wealth, it's still possible to have unrealistic expectations. The point I was trying to make is that people often develop grocery lists of what they want out of a partner rather than relating to human beings as human beings.
You seem to be quite the authority on committed relationships ege02.
No. Don't do this. If you have something to say, just say it man. Like I said in the OP, no retarded sarcasm in this thread.
Say what like a man? That you seem to be pretty definite about what makes for good long term relationships even though you are a player? That you seem to be misinterpreting the posts of people who are actually in rather long term relationships through a lack of attention?
Sorry to express that more compactly with a pointed comment, the way a woman would.
You seem to be quite the authority on committed relationships ege02.
No. Don't do this. If you have something to say, just say it man. Like I said in the OP, no retarded sarcasm in this thread.
Say what like a man? That you seem to be pretty definite about what makes for good long term relationships even though you are a player? That you seem to be misinterpreting the posts of people who are actually in rather long term relationships through a lack of attention?
I said "say it man". I didn't say "say it like a man".
If you disagree with something specific that I say, state it out.
You seem to be quite the authority on committed relationships ege02.
No. Don't do this. If you have something to say, just say it man. Like I said in the OP, no retarded sarcasm in this thread.
Say what like a man? That you seem to be pretty definite about what makes for good long term relationships even though you are a player? That you seem to be misinterpreting the posts of people who are actually in rather long term relationships through a lack of attention?
I said "say it man". I didn't say "say it like a man".
If you disagree with something specific that I say, state it out.
Shinto is right, making that conscious choice makes things easier... you've decided that your going to stick with this person, and acknowledged it may be difficult at times.
When I say "commitment" I mean inner commitment. Not various property or legal arrangements.
I'm sorry. I misunderstood you because even though you meant inner commitment, you used an example of legal arrangement to support your argument.
How does one make an "inner commitment"? How do you even define such a thing? It's sort of vague.
It means you decide you are in it with the other person for the long haul, and that you will stop entertaining the idea of ever leaving them.
My experience has been that it is somewhat of a conscious decision and that after it is taken the relationship goes a lot smoother.
I don't have any personal experience to counter your own, but from what I have seen among my friends, the ones that assume they are in for the long haul and that the relationship will lead to marriage are the ones who are most devastated when it ends.
At the same time though, like you said, always having an eye on other people tends to doom the relationship.
I think the best stance is in between: having enough respect for the other person to put your best into the relationship no matter where you think it is leading, and at the same time realizing that not every girl you date will be the one you marry and that you shouldn't treat them like your future-wife/husband.
You seem to be reading a lot into Shinto's comment pertaining to things he never discussed, like how quickly or with how much (little) consideration a commitment should be made.
Edit: On top of that, making a commitment to yourself to stick with someone doesn't mean you have to convince yourself that you need them to survive or anything unhealthy like that. It could still end, and sometimes it does, but how much different is it to point out that people who get married are the ones worst hurt by divorces? For a relationship ending to hurt more than just "oops, and she had such a nice ass too. oh well!" isn't unhealthy at all. Especially a relationship you wanted to stay in. That doesn't mean you shouldn't ever want to stay in a relationship. If you live your life hiding from everything that might potentially end painfully, shit you didn't actually live your life.
You seem to be reading a lot into Shinto's comment pertaining to things he never discussed, like how quickly or with how much (little) consideration a commitment should be made.
Anyway, the biggest mistake people around my age (20-25) -- including, sometimes, myself -- seem to be doing when it comes to relationships is that they want to get into a relationship not because they genuinely like the person, but because they are lonely and want the feeling of security and acceptance that "love" brings.
I found out the hard way -- fortunately, pretty early in life -- that basing your sense of self-worth on what other people think of you is never wise.
Anyway, the biggest mistake people around my age (20-25) -- including, sometimes, myself -- seem to be doing when it comes to relationships is that they want to get into a relationship not because they genuinely like the person, but because they are lonely and want the feeling of security and acceptance that "love" brings.
I found out the hard way -- fortunately, pretty early in life -- that basing your sense of self-worth on what other people think of you is never wise.
Haha. I limed ege. The second part I'd more go with basing your sense of self-worth on what other people think being unwise, but failing to take what other people think into consideration at all is just as unwise.
One or two people have already said you have to love yourself in order to love someone else. I think another common mistake is that people don't even KNOW themselves, so they pick partners that they think will be perfect, but end up not being the match for them that they thought and completely ignore the person who would be perfect for them because they don't match their self-image.
Also its very important to approach the relationship sensibly. Love does not conquer all, nor is the knotted gut feeling you get during the first months of passion and infatuation going to last long... a long term relationship is more about companionship and sharing your life with someone than gazing longingly into their eyes and jumping their bones at every opportunity.
While the bolded statement is very true, I don't think the second half necessarily is. Just because you've been with someone for a long time doesn't mean the excitement has to fade away altogether. I mean yeah, it's never going to be the same kind of holyshitomgnervousawesome thing of the first couple dates or whatever, but there's still plenty of time for eye-gazing and the jumping of bones.
PS: What are all your guys opinions on moving in with your S/O pre-marriage? I'm pretty sure most people here will have no problem with it as this is a pretty open group of people, but I'm just wondering. My mom got married once before my dad and the guy turned out to be a d-bag and she says that she knew before they got married that they shouldn't (because they lived together) but did anyway. I think she's basically trying to tell me it's a good idea without outright saying it.
Kind of like when you let your kid go to a party where you know they'll be doing illicit things but letting them think they're getting away with it because you know they're going to do it anyway and don't want to advocate it. That kind of thing?
I'm a little late, so what I'll bring up has already been said, but I'm married and you're gonna hear about it!
Biggest relationship enders:
Sex - Sex is so primal and fundamental to who we are, it won't be long before it becomes an issue. It sounds shallow to break up with someone because you like different sex, but it's better to find someone you're compatible with than be forced into an uncomfortable pairing.
Money - Do you agree on how to spend money? My wife and I get along very, very well, but we fight about money all the time.
Cleanliness - It's not just about cleanliness, but living together in general. People have habits you might not know about until you observe them in their natural habitat. Are your live-in habits compatible?
In-laws - You can never ask a person to abandon their friends & family, especially if they've known those friends longer than you. If you can't accept them as a package deal, find a new package.
Dependency - If you're not okay with yourself before the relationship, then being with someone isn't going to make you feel "whole". People in this state tend to get clingy, and in my personal experience, take everything as an insult or an omen that the relationship is ending.
Best tools to maintain a relationship:
Goals - You both need to talk about what you want out of the relationship. I've known people who thought they were in a long-term relationship, while their other thought differently.
Introspection - You know what? Sometimes it is your fault.
Fighting Fair - This is easily the most important one. Some people think you shouldn't fight at all. They are wrong. What you need to do is develop "fair" fighting habits. For instance, don't use words like "never" or "always". I might often forget to take out the trash, but I don't always forget. Basically, be respectful even when arguing.
Reading this over again, I've decided that I need to stop using rhetorical questions.
While the bolded statement is very true, I don't think the second half necessarily is. Just because you've been with someone for a long time doesn't mean the excitement has to fade away altogether. I mean yeah, it's never going to be the same kind of holyshitomgnervousawesome thing of the first couple dates or whatever, but there's still plenty of time for eye-gazing and the jumping of bones.
Oh certainly, there is time in any relationship for those moments... my point was more that people seem to be expecting it to be as frequent as it might be when they first meet.. which often isn't the case.
PS: What are all your guys opinions on moving in with your S/O pre-marriage? I'm pretty sure most people here will have no problem with it as this is a pretty open group of people, but I'm just wondering. My mom got married once before my dad and the guy turned out to be a d-bag and she says that she knew before they got married that they shouldn't (because they lived together) but did anyway. I think she's basically trying to tell me it's a good idea without outright saying it.
Kind of like when you let your kid go to a party where you know they'll be doing illicit things but letting them think they're getting away with it because you know they're going to do it anyway and don't want to advocate it. That kind of thing?
My wife and I lived together for a year before we got married, but then our relationship was a bit unusual in that we'd known each other for close to six years and shared things that many people never feel able to. However, many of the successful relationships that I've come into contact with are people who lived together before they were married.. in a world where divorce is (relatively) easy, I think its important to actually get to know the other person on a level that only living together allows.
Nexelau on
0
Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratorMod Emeritus
You seem to be quite the authority on committed relationships ege02.
No. Don't do this. If you have something to say, just say it man. Like I said in the OP, no retarded sarcasm in this thread.
Say what like a man? That you seem to be pretty definite about what makes for good long term relationships even though you are a player? That you seem to be misinterpreting the posts of people who are actually in rather long term relationships through a lack of attention?
I said "say it man". I didn't say "say it like a man".
If you disagree with something specific that I say, state it out.
My advice to people is: Don't get married or engaged to people if you are below 24.
I have spent too much money on rings (note the plural).
Also, don't let your significant other guilt you into doing things. This I can't stress enough.
I can happily say that I have had excellent results in the online dating scene (eharmony, okcupid). It is the wave of the future and is not considered "weird" to find people online to date. I consider online dating to be just another avenue to meet new people.
Hey guys I have a question about pre-marital counseling. Is it a good idea? Should i just do my own thing and find out about the relationship myself? When would be the best time to do it if you recommend it? I know many relationships are doing amazingly without it so should i just ignore it all together? I just want to know if any of you guys have experience with that.
It is basically going to classes to help you "prep" for marriage or to see if engaged couples can cope with different marriage scenarios. I know there is more to it.
I would personally be skeptical about it.. concerned that it would start a dangerous precedence in the marriage for running to such people every time something went wrong, instead of sitting down and dealing with the issues between you.
That being said, if you did want to go for it, its important to remember that websites like the one you listed seem to be trying to sell it.. they are trying to make money off you.. they may be kosher and honestly trying to help, but they may also be out to make a buck and end up just telling you what you want to hear, or trying to extend it to get more money.
I know some people who got married in church, and the priest there spent quite a lot of time before the wedding speaking to both halves, going over all manner of issues both together and separately... even if you are not religious, seeking out independent advice that is does not depend on you getting that advice for their income might be a plan?
I would personally be skeptical about it.. concerned that it would start a dangerous precedence in the marriage for running to such people every time something went wrong, instead of sitting down and dealing with the issues between you.
That being said, if you did want to go for it, its important to remember that websites like the one you listed seem to be trying to sell it.. they are trying to make money off you.. they may be kosher and honestly trying to help, but they may also be out to make a buck and end up just telling you what you want to hear, or trying to extend it to get more money.
I know some people who got married in church, and the priest there spent quite a lot of time before the wedding speaking to both halves, going over all manner of issues both together and separately... even if you are not religious, seeking out independent advice that is does not depend on you getting that advice for their income might be a plan?
Cool thanks for the advice. I appreciate the input.
You seem to be quite the authority on committed relationships ege02.
No. Don't do this. If you have something to say, just say it man. Like I said in the OP, no retarded sarcasm in this thread.
Say what like a man? That you seem to be pretty definite about what makes for good long term relationships even though you are a player? That you seem to be misinterpreting the posts of people who are actually in rather long term relationships through a lack of attention?
I said "say it man". I didn't say "say it like a man".
If you disagree with something specific that I say, state it out.
On a related note, "staying together for the kids" doesn't help "the kids" as much as one might think since the kids will eventually discover that their parents were only staying together for the kids. And waiting until they move out to college and then not telling them you're getting divorced because you don't want to distract them from their studies doesn't work out so well when they start asking questions about why dad hasn't been home in two months.
Posts
I know you aren't. What I have a problem with is what you're trying to imply with the correlation.
edit: just saw your edit. what i said holds true for any kind of commitment, not just marriage.
for instance, moving in together is a commitment, no? yeah, i think it's a bad idea to move in with your s/o in order to discourage her from having an eye on other men.
Discontentment comes from a mismatch between your expectations and reality - simple cognitive dissonance. Our culture does not encourage people to lower their unrealistic expectations... we're told, whether it's by dating websites or magazines or ads for beauty products, that we can attract and deserve to attract somebody gorgeous, intelligent, successful, and fabulous; even if we're only moderately attractive, relatively bright, stably employed, and not-too-bad. We're told that anything less is "settling," which is a dirty word.
Being told, "This is your spouse, now live with it" probably discourages unrealistic expectations. You're then forced to appreciate this person for who they are, rather than be resentful towards them for who they're not, if you don't want to spend your remaining years in misery.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
You are misunderstanding me.
When I say "commitment" I mean inner commitment. Not various property or legal arrangements.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
People now are selfish.. the more choice they have because the world is "smaller" now, the more they feel they can hold out for the perfect person, they are also more willing to ditch someone for giving into the basic human reaction to admire an attractive member of the appropriate gender and assume that because they look, they will touch.
Historically, when adultery was a terrible sin and divorce something that would hang over you like a cloud in society, and people had far less choice over who they married.. there were perfectly successful relationships that lasted all their life, where people learned to care about the people they were with even if they were not "perfect" and in some cases they didn't even know, let alone love, the person they married.
Now for me, when it comes to eyeing up cute women who are not my wife... I got no problem, I'm lucky, my wife points them out in the street.. but its a "look but don't touch" thing... if more people were able to understand that simply being physically attracted to someone doesn't equal love, and others understand that once you make a commitment, its your responsibility to see it through if you possibly can, there might be more successful relationships going.
On the note about online dating.. I don't know about the websites dedicated too it, but I do know that it works to meet someone online through common interests.. thats how I met my wife.
Right, but there is also the opposite side of that same coin. A lot of people stay in their relationship -- to use the terminology you used, they "settle" -- because it is more convenient to stay than to leave and start looking for someone else. Not necessarily someone better in the absolute sense, but someone who is a better "match", i.e. someone with whom they can get along better.
And I think you're erring when you state that attraction is based purely on traits like intelligence and good looks and possessions like cars and boats. There are a lot of extremely "high quality" people who are married to people who, on the outside, appear unexceptional. And the reason is that -- someone mentioned this earlier -- regardless of who people may be on the outside, they share something special with their significant other and that makes them more attracted to each other.
In this sense, I think the culture is somewhat right on the whole "you can attract someone who is gorgeous, intelligent, successful, and fabulous" thing.
As far as deserving such a person goes, however, not quite. Deserving is a function of effort put in, both to becoming a better person (in all aspects, not just physical), and learning to present that person to the outside world in a way that attracts quality people.
That's not what I said at all.
I was describing a cultural message that I perceive to be extant in our society.
In any case, even if your criteria for attraction have nothing to do with intelligence, physical attractiveness, or wealth, it's still possible to have unrealistic expectations. The point I was trying to make is that people often develop grocery lists of what they want out of a partner rather than relating to human beings as human beings.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
No. Don't do this. If you have something to say, just say it man. Like I said in the OP, no retarded sarcasm in this thread.
Yes, of course.
Say what like a man? That you seem to be pretty definite about what makes for good long term relationships even though you are a player? That you seem to be misinterpreting the posts of people who are actually in rather long term relationships through a lack of attention?
Sorry to express that more compactly with a pointed comment, the way a woman would.
I said "say it man". I didn't say "say it like a man".
If you disagree with something specific that I say, state it out.
Agreed.
They also need to consider the ramifications of a closed relationship far more thoroughly than they often do before agreeing to one.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Aha.
A fairly ironical mistake on my part.
Agreed.. and either needs to be taken more seriously than they ofren are.
I did. You seemed rather intent on misinterpreting it, much to my aggravation.
Now I believe it has run its course, unless you have something to say about my original comment now that I've clarified it for you.
I'm sorry. I misunderstood you because even though you meant inner commitment, you used an example of legal arrangement to support your argument.
How does one make an "inner commitment"? How do you even define such a thing? It's sort of vague.
It means you decide you are in it with the other person for the long haul, and that you will stop entertaining the idea of ever leaving them.
My experience has been that it is somewhat of a conscious decision and that after it is taken the relationship goes a lot smoother.
I don't have any personal experience to counter your own, but from what I have seen among my friends, the ones that assume they are in for the long haul and that the relationship will lead to marriage are the ones who are most devastated when it ends.
At the same time though, like you said, always having an eye on other people tends to doom the relationship.
I think the best stance is in between: having enough respect for the other person to put your best into the relationship no matter where you think it is leading, and at the same time realizing that not every girl you date will be the one you marry and that you shouldn't treat them like your future-wife/husband.
Well yeah. It wasn't a step I took until we had been living together for a year and a half and dating for three.
Edit: On top of that, making a commitment to yourself to stick with someone doesn't mean you have to convince yourself that you need them to survive or anything unhealthy like that. It could still end, and sometimes it does, but how much different is it to point out that people who get married are the ones worst hurt by divorces? For a relationship ending to hurt more than just "oops, and she had such a nice ass too. oh well!" isn't unhealthy at all. Especially a relationship you wanted to stay in. That doesn't mean you shouldn't ever want to stay in a relationship. If you live your life hiding from everything that might potentially end painfully, shit you didn't actually live your life.
Yeah. My bad.
I found out the hard way -- fortunately, pretty early in life -- that basing your sense of self-worth on what other people think of you is never wise.
Haha. I limed ege. The second part I'd more go with basing your sense of self-worth on what other people think being unwise, but failing to take what other people think into consideration at all is just as unwise.
While the bolded statement is very true, I don't think the second half necessarily is. Just because you've been with someone for a long time doesn't mean the excitement has to fade away altogether. I mean yeah, it's never going to be the same kind of holyshitomgnervousawesome thing of the first couple dates or whatever, but there's still plenty of time for eye-gazing and the jumping of bones.
PS: What are all your guys opinions on moving in with your S/O pre-marriage? I'm pretty sure most people here will have no problem with it as this is a pretty open group of people, but I'm just wondering. My mom got married once before my dad and the guy turned out to be a d-bag and she says that she knew before they got married that they shouldn't (because they lived together) but did anyway. I think she's basically trying to tell me it's a good idea without outright saying it.
Kind of like when you let your kid go to a party where you know they'll be doing illicit things but letting them think they're getting away with it because you know they're going to do it anyway and don't want to advocate it. That kind of thing?
Biggest relationship enders:
Best tools to maintain a relationship:
Reading this over again, I've decided that I need to stop using rhetorical questions.
Oh certainly, there is time in any relationship for those moments... my point was more that people seem to be expecting it to be as frequent as it might be when they first meet.. which often isn't the case.
My wife and I lived together for a year before we got married, but then our relationship was a bit unusual in that we'd known each other for close to six years and shared things that many people never feel able to. However, many of the successful relationships that I've come into contact with are people who lived together before they were married.. in a world where divorce is (relatively) easy, I think its important to actually get to know the other person on a level that only living together allows.
You just don't listen anymore, Shinto
I have spent too much money on rings (note the plural).
Also, don't let your significant other guilt you into doing things. This I can't stress enough.
I can happily say that I have had excellent results in the online dating scene (eharmony, okcupid). It is the wave of the future and is not considered "weird" to find people online to date. I consider online dating to be just another avenue to meet new people.
Edit: just googled the word and this came up http://www.wedalert.com/content/articles/premarital_counseling.asp
That being said, if you did want to go for it, its important to remember that websites like the one you listed seem to be trying to sell it.. they are trying to make money off you.. they may be kosher and honestly trying to help, but they may also be out to make a buck and end up just telling you what you want to hear, or trying to extend it to get more money.
I know some people who got married in church, and the priest there spent quite a lot of time before the wedding speaking to both halves, going over all manner of issues both together and separately... even if you are not religious, seeking out independent advice that is does not depend on you getting that advice for their income might be a plan?
Cool thanks for the advice. I appreciate the input.
You're a slut.
There, I said it. There's your communication.
What were you saying?
On a related note, "staying together for the kids" doesn't help "the kids" as much as one might think since the kids will eventually discover that their parents were only staying together for the kids. And waiting until they move out to college and then not telling them you're getting divorced because you don't want to distract them from their studies doesn't work out so well when they start asking questions about why dad hasn't been home in two months.