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PAX Concerts: Moshing vs. No-moshing

eelektrikeelektrik Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
edited September 2007 in PAX Archive
All the enforcers I talked to were generally cool people and helpful, but there was one that deserves complaint. The one that was actually participating in the lame ass mosh pit during the Saturday concert, needs to learn how to do his job. I wish all of those involved in that had been kicked out of PAX. This isn't ozzfest, its god damned PAX, stop being douches and let me enjoy the concert.

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eelektrik on
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  • CerriusCerrius Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Moshing is a big no no. Someone could get in trouble for participating in a mosh pit.

    Cerrius on
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  • JaidenJaiden Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    eelektrik wrote: »
    All the enforcers I talked to were generally cool people and helpful, but there was one that deserves complaint. The one that was actually participating in the lame ass mosh pit during the Saturday concert, needs to learn how to do his job. I wish all of those involved in that had been kicked out of PAX. This isn't ozzfest, its god damned PAX, stop being douches and let me enjoy the concert.

    No worries regarding Enforcers and the mosh pits. We do have an established rule against it, and he should have known better. I'll make sure that it's made crystal-clear to all concert security Enforcers next year so we don't have a repeat.

    Jaiden on
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  • Bradicus PrimeBradicus Prime Registered User new member
    edited September 2007
    Easy Answer: Mosh area

    If others don't like it, they don't have to participate. It happens every year, don't fight it, guide it. Set aside a mosh area. The first year me and mine didn't start it, we participated. The last two years we started it, AND brought our own bouncers to stand around the group. However, I will admit that when others start jumping in it starts to get out of hand. But this shows a demand for a moshing area.

    You need to either meet this demand, or stand aside as it is met by others. We chated with the Minibosses after the show this year, and they support the idea of a mosh pit area. Mosh pits get bands pumped, which means a better show for everyone.

    If the bands support it, and some of the fans support it, and Penny Arcade has a tshirt that says "Jesus is f-ing metal", why is everyone down on the idea of a mosh area? Liability? If you jump in any pit you instantly sign away any rights you have to freedom from bodily harm. I'd be more worried about the liability to the people who don't want to mosh getting hurt, while nothing is done to meet this need.

    I am a loyal reader. I've been to every PAX. I've been to all the concerts. We need a mosh pit area.

    Bradicus Prime on
  • eelektrikeelektrik Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I am a loyal reader. I've been to every PAX. I've been to all the concerts. We need a mosh pit area.

    They were right behind me, bumping into me repeatedly until another enforcer came along and made them stop. Having a dedicated Mosh area just takes up more room and more enforcers. When they're trying to squeeze more people into the room already, it doesn't seem like a productive use of space for the handful of people interested in it.

    eelektrik on
    (She/Her)
  • teamquigganteamquiggan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    So no moshing was a policy? Thats a bit lame. I just thought that people didn't know how to start it, I was looking forward to a nerd mosh pit, without idiot jocks defending their girlfriends who for some reason, want to stand in a mosh pit, the dumb asses who really try to hurt and trip people, those that are too high/drunk to realise what they are doing. The people at the front who complain about mosh pitting behind, well, you could always stand at the back, leave the front for people with shear determination and force of will to endure. I guess I should've figured that though because they had a stage spike, pretty much invented to cut the mosh pit in half.

    teamquiggan on
  • JaidenJaiden Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    In general, this probably isn't the best post to randomly diverge off into the sciences of PAX concert mosh-pitting.

    If you want to appear to the higher-ups regarding whether this is a possibility, there are other avenues of contact open. The Enforcers don't have /too much/ influence over the rules. We're just there to do what our name implies.

    Well, and to have fun, but business before pleasures, yadda yadda.

    Jaiden on
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  • Bradicus PrimeBradicus Prime Registered User new member
    edited September 2007
    A stage spike would actually make it easier to have a mosh pit area. That blocks off two sides already, then you just need another barrier between the pit an the rest of the audience.

    Also, who can I talk to to make this happen? Enforcers may not have much say, but they know who does, and I'm sure their opinions count for something.

    Bradicus Prime on
  • JaidenJaiden Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    A stage spike would actually make it easier to have a mosh pit area. That blocks off two sides already, then you just need another barrier between the pit an the rest of the audience.

    Also, who can I talk to to make this happen? Enforcers may not have much say, but they know who does, and I'm sure their opinions count for something.

    Honestly, this is a purely personal opinion, but I would prefer no mosh pit. Maybe I'm just getting old at 25, or maybe I don't want to deal with the potential medical nightmare that would result of a badly constructed mosh put, but if the higher ups were to ask me if we think there should be a mosh pit, my answer would be no.

    (note: This is purely my opinion, and does not reflect anyone else's feelings on this but mine.)

    Jaiden on
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    [10:24] * @BigRed-Worky cums the water

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  • sakanasakana Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    At the Meydenbauer, at least, no moshing was not so much PAX's rule as it was the venue's rule. I'm not sure what the policy is at the new venue, but I'd rather not risk it - I'm pretty sure the facility would prefer not to have the liability. As much as I enjoy the pit, which I totally do, I would rather leave it out and ensure that we don't ruffle feathers with the venue. Getting PAX kicked out would suck balls.

    sakana on
  • NorthNorth Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    My understanding is that the no moshing policy was in place for insurance reasons at the Meydenbauer. I don't know if the WSCC has a similar policy. I think we have kept it because its become part of the PAX atmosphere that people can come enjoy the concerts without having to worry about someone elbowing them. There are obviously other good reasons for keeping this policy in place. The most important one is that most nerds just don't like moshing and the best way to ruin someone else's fun is moshing into them. The idea that we should kick people out of the front rows so you can have fun moshing when they are having fun watching the concert is kind of selfish and not something that would really fly at PAX.

    North on
  • BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Also, who can I talk to to make this happen? Enforcers may not have much say, but they know who does, and I'm sure their opinions count for something.

    Yeah our opinions do count and im sure most will say no thanks to any type of mosh anything.

    BigRed on
    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • Bradicus PrimeBradicus Prime Registered User new member
    edited September 2007
    I'm not talking about a punk rock pit where everyone tries to leave with at least a bloody lip. I'm talking about a pit where people can dance around and bounce off each other and have a good time without worrying about bouncing into others who don't want to dance. The dancing and bouncing around is going to happen whether you like it or not, the only way to stop it completely is to have a ton of enforcers spread throughout the crowd stopping it before it starts, and if you're going to do that you might as well have a few enforcers up near the stage to monitor the pit area.

    Also, who can I bring this suggestion to please? I would really like to see this happen and want to make sure I'm bringing it to the attention of who it needs brought to. Thank you.

    Bradicus Prime on
  • David CoffmanDavid Coffman Registered User, PAX Staff regular
    edited September 2007
    BigRed wrote: »
    Yeah our opinions do count and im sure most will say no thanks to any type of mosh anything.
    I disagree. I think the majority of enforcers would be fully in favor of moshing you. ;)

    Moshing you down the stairs, moshing you down an elevator shaft, moshing you off the tops of buildings...THE FUN NEVER ENDS!

    David Coffman on
  • KrysKrys regular
    edited September 2007
    I'm not talking about a punk rock pit where everyone tries to leave with at least a bloody lip. I'm talking about a pit where people can dance around and bounce off each other and have a good time without worrying about bouncing into others who don't want to dance. The dancing and bouncing around is going to happen whether you like it or not, the only way to stop it completely is to have a ton of enforcers spread throughout the crowd stopping it before it starts, and if you're going to do that you might as well have a few enforcers up near the stage to monitor the pit area.

    Also, who can I bring this suggestion to please? I would really like to see this happen and want to make sure I'm bringing it to the attention of who it needs brought to. Thank you.

    Qft. Im not sure how many concerts you guys have been to that fucking kick ass. But when the Minibosses are playing and they are ripping it up - There are going to be some people rocking out hard, Moving, Jumping, dancing, Moshing. Either small or large, people move and bump, and in really good concerts people mosh.

    Whats wrong with designating a small area near the front for the people that want to rock out as hard as possible to an amazing band? We're not jackasses punching eachother and trying to kill one another. We're nerds - If someone falls we help them up. We know not to hurt our brothers. And its a dammed shame that when we're rocking out hard and having a hell of a time - someone has to ruin our fun because they fear its going to get bad. When it hasnt the whole concert.

    Hell - a kid lost his glasses in the middle of the mosh (Who was in the mosh from the start) And everyone, EVERYONE, people who didnt know him or his friends stopped instantly. We all stopped and helped him find his glasses asap to help the guy out. Once we found his glasses after awhile we started moshing again after patting the guy on his back telling him to watch his lenses.

    Its the moshers choice to do this, and its a common choice - and getting more and more popular every year. Its something that happens at EVERY good concert. Its safe, and all in good fun. I dont see why about an extra 5 minutes of organization is out of order to set up a small area for the people that wish to rock out - and rock out hard.



    Edit: But yea on topic: Its amazing every year to see how much ass the enforcers kick, and willing to help. Not hired goons, nerds alike who are friendly and will talk to you about whats up. (And totally I love the Enforcer that was moshing)

    Krys on
    So god dammed lol.
  • yoshamanoyoshamano The fuck is this. The fuck was that. Marshall, Soviet MichiganRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Personally, a mosh pit would be a lot of fun. It would have to be a roped off area to the side for it to work though. This isn't your local rock club that only pulls in a 100 people tops for a show, so you can't have random mosh pits inside of the main crowd of people in front of the stage.

    yoshamano on
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  • NephirijNephirij Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Although I am slightly leaning against the idea of a mosh pit, I also feel that if there was one, it should be away from the stage. It's not really fair to the people who just want to be up front and listen to take away their spot because some people want to mosh. I enjoyed being up at the stage and just listening, and it would've sucked to be that much farther back because there was a bunch of people jumping around in front of me.

    Nephirij on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    If nothing else, a mosh pit would need rules and a very clearly-designated area.

    When people try to do moshing or contact dancing and such at random in the clubs, I end up having to spend the evening in a fricking boxing pose to stay on the dance floor.

    I, personally, like to zone and sway to music, rather than throw punches at people. It's really unpleasant to get punched in the chest when you are half-aware and swaying like a reed, or to have to dodge flying bodies.

    Now, an actual -dance- area, not moshing, but actual dancing, I'm all for.

    Incenjucar on
  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    The big problem is if the center even allows people to mosh as they might be afraid of being held responsible for anyone getting hurt. Only way around that is if people sign a form at the info people saying they won't hold the WSCTC or the PAX staff responsible over what happens. Then you got to make sure the only people moshing are the ones that signed it best way to do that is give them a wrist band for signing it just make it a color that is easy for Enforcers to recognize it during the concerts when it is dark
    yoshamano wrote: »
    Personally, a mosh pit would be a lot of fun. It would have to be a roped off area to the side for it to work though. This isn't your local rock club that only pulls in a 100 people tops for a show, so you can't have random mosh pits inside of the main crowd of people in front of the stage.

    A roped off mosh pit with Enforcer bouncers is perfect for everything I said above. You sign the form and get the mosher wrist band and the Enforcers let you in, if you don't have it then no entry for you, if you are moshing outside the pit then you face the wrath of the Enforcers that catch you.

    The people that want to mosh get to without letting an angry parent to sue if their kid got hurt and they are separated from the rest of the crowd so they don't bother anyway.

    Only problem after that is making the pit big enough to fit all the moshers and put it in a spot near the stage without being in the of the media badge people trying to take pictures with really expensive cameras.

    TNTrooper on
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  • Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator mod
    edited September 2007
    That sounds like a lot of work.

    Moe Fwacky on
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  • SergeantAuberieSergeantAuberie Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    As a frequent mosher, I am anti-PAX-moshpits.
    It sounds like a lot of work for something that could happen in a parking lot, away from expensive cameras and delicate Enforcers who have been on their feet all day anyway..

    "Take it outside!"

    SergeantAuberie on
  • Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator mod
    edited September 2007
    I agree (well except for putting it in a parking lot). I've done more moshing than is probably healthy for me, though traditionally is run down bars to punk rock with beer bottles flying overhead. PAX doesn't exactly fit the bill for a moshing atmosphere and such activity would be a pain in the ass for the Enforcers-on-duty.

    Moe Fwacky on
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  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    People are gonna mosh anyways, right? So if it's against the rules, they'll keep it easy so as not to get in trouble. If there is some kind of sanctioned moshing, then I see it as more likely to turn ugly.
    You know what I mean?

    Aioua on
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  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Running a moshpit would need to be organized just as well as any other event at PAX probably even more so due to the higher chance of injuries or damaged property and the lawsuits that could follow.

    Despite all of the stuff I said earlier I don't see much of a need to mosh unless the Miniboess and NESkimos are playing at the time.

    Besides I doubt the average PAX attendee is in good enough shape to last moshing for 3-4 hours with only a break when the next band is setting up.

    TNTrooper on
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  • KrysKrys regular
    edited September 2007
    Moshing would probably only happen During minibosses. They commented they would love it, and its the only band worthy of one. It would be easy to organize, seeing as about 4 of my friends secured an area with their bodies and just made sure we didnt roll into people and bounced us back into the area safely. All good clean fun

    Oh and, no one got hurt.

    And to reply to Incenjucar :

    Who throws punches? There were none this year, or the years before. This is a mosh pit comprised of nerds. A mosh pit of nerds. We're not a retarded violent bunch. We just wanna throw ourselves around, and rock out as much as possible to a kick ass band.

    Krys on
    So god dammed lol.
  • neurosliceneuroslice Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    PAX is in Seattle.
    If one wants to mosh in a good circle pit, or something; one should stay an extra day and see a punk show.

    And that's all I have to say on the matter.

    neuroslice on
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  • ThelloThello Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Listening to the Mega 64 panel, something I'm surprised nobody else has brought up: the floor towards the front felt like it was physically buckling from the jumping during Freezepop. Being that it's on the fourth floor, it makes me wonder.

    Thello on
  • BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Aioua wrote: »
    People are gonna mosh anyways, right? So if it's against the rules, they'll keep it easy so as not to get in trouble. If there is some kind of sanctioned moshing, then I see it as more likely to turn ugly.
    You know what I mean?

    It was kept to a minimum this year. If the wsctc doesnt want it there then we will have to enforce that. No amount of waivers or such would change their mind on that one.

    BigRed on
    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • sakanasakana Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Am I the only person who finds the idea of an organized mosh somewhat oxymoronic?

    sakana on
  • SergeantAuberieSergeantAuberie Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    neuroslice wrote: »
    PAX is in Seattle.
    If one wants to mosh in a good circle pit, or something; one should stay an extra day and see a punk show.

    And that's all I have to say on the matter.

    Heard, and agreed.

    SergeantAuberie on
  • Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator mod
    edited September 2007
    sakana wrote: »
    Am I the only person who finds the idea of an organized mosh somewhat oxymoronic?

    No, I fully agree

    Moe Fwacky on
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  • David CoffmanDavid Coffman Registered User, PAX Staff regular
    edited September 2007
    sakana wrote: »
    Am I the only person who finds the idea of a mosh somewhat moronic?
    Agreed.

    Oh...wait....

    ;)

    David Coffman on
  • BrokenAngelBrokenAngel Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'm not a fan of being thrown around and bashed in the face, so I quite appreciate the lack of moshing :)

    BrokenAngel on
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  • NorthNorth Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    We did have a little trouble in 05 with a small group of people jumping into and onto other people during the concert so its kind of a touchy subject.

    North on
  • TimeCruiserMikeTimeCruiserMike Past Organizer of the West Coast Train Trip San Fernando ValleyRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    i was with eelektrik at the concert . . . and i have to say i was not enjoying the mosh pit either . .. particularly when some one slamed into me and pushed me 5 feet into 3 other people who also were not enjoying the mosh pit

    TimeCruiserMike on
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  • Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator mod
    edited September 2007
    Yeah a mosh pit doesn't work unless everybody's into it. Otherwise you just piss people off.

    Moe Fwacky on
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  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Yeah you can't just randomly start moshing otherwise people around you hope someone twice your size breaks your toe when they step on your foot. That is why having a roped off area for it is such a good idea it keeps the moshers away from normal people.

    TNTrooper on
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  • Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator mod
    edited September 2007
    I'm more leaning towards, if everybody near the stage isn't there to mosh, then it's probably not a moshing crowd.

    Moe Fwacky on
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  • collinccollinc Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I have another option. Move a little bit. I've been to tons of shows. Plenty I wanted to mosh at, and when the pit formed I would move towards it. But at the same time there have been plenty that I didn't want to mosh in. You know what I did? I stayed away from the mosh pit. Typically mosh pits aren't huge, and although I was at the PC free play area during The Minibosses I imagine it wasn't a huge mosh pit. So people are dancing and moving and enjoying the show. You want to not dance, not move and still enjoy the show. We can all respect each other and the people who want to mosh can stay at least 5 feet from the mosh pit.

    To the people who said "I kept getting bumped into and didn't like it" then what did you do about it? For instance, if a man came up to me and stood right in front of me and said "I'm going to poke right in front of me." I wouldn't merely stand there as he pokes me thinking "gosh this is so rude, " I would move slightly so that I would no longer being poked. That seems like common sense that if you are in an area that you are uncomfortable in you would vacate that area. Yes you can come back and say "well I shouldn't have to move away from the pit I was there first." And maybe that's true, you shouldn't have to move. But why be so uptight? I guarantee it didn't bother the people moshing that you were there. You were the only one who suffered from refusing to move.

    collinc on
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  • ariocksayssqueeariocksayssquee Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    To the people who said "I kept getting bumped into and didn't like it" then what did you do about it? For instance, if a man came up to me and stood right in front of me and said "I'm going to poke right in front of me." I wouldn't merely stand there as he pokes me thinking "gosh this is so rude, " I would move slightly so that I would no longer being poked.That seems like common sense that if you are in an area that you are uncomfortable in you would vacate that area. Yes you can come back and say "well I shouldn't have to move away from the pit I was there first." And maybe that's true, you shouldn't have to move. But why be so uptight? I guarantee it didn't bother the people moshing that you were there. You were the only one who suffered from refusing to move.

    So what you are saying is we need to make the moshers suffer more. Good point.

    ariocksayssquee on
  • xxhennersxxxxhennersxx Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    My friends started a mosh pit during the minibosses towards the right side of the stage. Where it was OPEN. There was nothing but open space on the right sides of the stage, and we were stopped after like 2minutes.

    xxhennersxx on
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