Maybe the studios want to delay the new deal until after the holiday buying season, just to squeeze out those extra DVD pennies? Or would that not make sense at all?
Don't they make their money when the stores buy their DVDs, not when the customers do?
Maybe the studios want to delay the new deal until after the holiday buying season, just to squeeze out those extra DVD pennies? Or would that not make sense at all?
Don't they make their money when the stores buy their DVDs, not when the customers do?
Right, but stores buy DVDs based on consumer demand. A customer buying a DVD helps everyone down the chain.
The AMPTP has a pretty serious problem - the WGA has popular support pretty much firmly behind them. This means they're in a pretty good place for a protracted battle. But, there is one opening - a large part of the support is predicated on the AMPTP looking like a bunch of intractable assholes. Solution - not look like intractable assholes. Which is where The Plan comes in.
Step 1: Get the WGA to negotiate under a press blackout, because you're not going to want anyone seeing what you're about to do.
Step 2: While the blackout is on, spread rumors that a deal is near and that the studios are making concessions. Now, these don't have to be true. They just need to be believable.
Step 3: Meanwhile, present a plan that you want accepted that looks "fair". Yes, the WGA is going to initially balk. But once they realize that if they back out, they're going to look like the intractable assholes now, they'll agree to the mild assreaming now to avoid the harsh assreaming later.
Step 4: Profit!
It's utterly evil, but very effective, especially with force majure looming. But, it hinges on one thing - the offered deal must look "fair". And that's where the AMPTP failed. The deal they offered was anything BUT fair. $250/year for online reruns (with a "promo" clause to allow the rate to be knocked to $0/year)? DVD rates for iTunes (that means out of your average iTunes TV purchase, the writer would only see 2/3 of a penny)? It's like they thought that all they had to do is present some deal, and The Plan would work.
Oh, did I mention what happens if The Plan doesn't work? The backlash whips back to the guy running it. Which means that instead of forcing the WGA to deal, the AMPTP is going to find that the support for them is going to be a whole lot stronger - especially now that the other unions will see how willing the AMPTP is to fuck them over. Even worse, there's no fucking way that the WGA will ever agree to a press blackout again, so now negotiations are going to be out in the open, where the AMPTP will have no way to hide bad behavior.
The AMPTP almost managed to turn the tables on the WGA. But thanks to their greed, they've just sunk deeper into the tar.
So they are now entering week 6 of the writers strike.
The producers *generously* offered $250 annually for an episode on the web.
Contrast that with the $20,000 that each episode gets for a single rerun.
Why do these producers not realize that the writers are not fucking stupid, and trying to get them to accept less than they get now, for what is soon going to be the preferred method of consumption is beyond me.
Every TV Series fan I know either purchases the DVD set, or watches them online. (or pirates them online).
EDIT: I am also experiencing my Daily Show & Colbert Report withdrawels.
AMPTP to WGA: You don't like our offer that gives you LESS money than you are making now? You don't like our even newer offer that removes pretty much all of your demands? Fine, we'll walk! See who looks like an ass NOW!
AMPTP to WGA: You don't like our offer that gives you LESS money than you are making now? You don't like our even newer offer that removes pretty much all of your demands? Fine, we'll walk! See who looks like an ass NOW!
oh wait, it's us
The sad thing is that, now that just about everyone's shows are starting to be affected, some are turning on the WGA.
Either that or the producers are even more tremendous assholes than I thought and are seeding major internet message boards with people talking smack about how "selfish" the WGA are.
Which, in retrospect, doesn't actually seem too unlikely, especially considering that we've heard producer reps basically saying that the strike was over and that they're close to resolution after each bullshit offer, causing enthusiasm and inevitable disappointment when the WGA rejects the unfair deal. "Look, Ma! Viral marketing can work against the proletariat, too!"
The bigger issue now is it's starting to pinch all production crew workers since they're running out of TV scripts.
That's still not the WGA's fault. The producers can find something for the production crews to do... aren't there millions of optioned scripts out there that never get filmed? Time to get cracking on that backlog.
If the producers were legitimately concerned, they wouldn't hold the crews' fate over the WGA's head.
The bigger issue now is it's starting to pinch all production crew workers since they're running out of TV scripts.
That's still not the WGA's fault. The producers can find something for the production crews to do... aren't there millions of optioned scripts out there that never get filmed? Time to get cracking on that backlog.
If the producers were legitimately concerned, they wouldn't hold the crews' fate over the WGA's head.
Prepared scripts will still require rewrites or modifications right? I don't think there's really anything to do without writers.
The sad thing is that the AMPTP still thinks that The Plan will work, when everyone knows that they're running The Plan (when you have a press release ready the moment you walk out, that's a sign that something's rotten in the state of Denmark.)
Also, I want to see every Democratic candidate publically vow that Lehane will NEVER work for their campaign from now on. He wants to be a scab - he can see what it costs him.
As much as I am hurting for some fresh John Stewart or Stephen Colbert, I totally support the WGA.
I would do without for maybe another 3-6 months, before I start trying to encourage some guerilla style YouTube video's from the WGA where they start selling scripts / publishing privately to bypass the AMPTP somehow.
Prepared scripts will still require rewrites or modifications right? I don't think there's really anything to do without writers.
So the producers adapt the scripts themselves, pay themselves more money, then release utter shit. It's not like they haven't pushed utter shit at us before. I mean The Watcher, starring Sir-Mix-A-Lot, was green-lit for our edification once upon a time. "You gonna lose yo money an' yo hunny!"
You think production crews care if they're making quality shows anymore? I'm guessing they're happy to get a paycheck.
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ElJeffeRoaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPAMod Emeritus
The bigger issue now is it's starting to pinch all production crew workers since they're running out of TV scripts.
That's still not the WGA's fault. The producers can find something for the production crews to do... aren't there millions of optioned scripts out there that never get filmed? Time to get cracking on that backlog.
If the producers were legitimately concerned, they wouldn't hold the crews' fate over the WGA's head.
If you're actually being serious, that's completely dumb. The production crews are not the producers' responsibility, and the blame for their plight is shared equally between the WGA and the producers. They are the civilian casualties in all this. Either side could just as easily cave if they cared about the crew, but for all the rhetoric being lobbed in the name of commiseration, nobody gives a shit about them.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
The bigger issue now is it's starting to pinch all production crew workers since they're running out of TV scripts.
That's still not the WGA's fault. The producers can find something for the production crews to do... aren't there millions of optioned scripts out there that never get filmed? Time to get cracking on that backlog.
If the producers were legitimately concerned, they wouldn't hold the crews' fate over the WGA's head.
If you're actually being serious, that's completely dumb. The production crews are not the producers' responsibility, and the blame for their plight is shared equally between the WGA and the producers. They are the civilian casualties in all this. Either side could just as easily cave if they cared about the crew, but for all the rhetoric being lobbed in the name of commiseration, nobody gives a shit about them.
Sure the WGA could cave in but them not caving does not signify that they do not care about the crews.
Narian on
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ElJeffeRoaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPAMod Emeritus
Every TV Series fan I know either purchases the DVD set, or watches them online. (or pirates them online).
Every TV series fan you know is a lousy sample set. People do still occasionally watch TV shows on TV, you know.
Like, most of the time.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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ElJeffeRoaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPAMod Emeritus
Sure the WGA could cave in but them not caving does not signify that they do not care about the crews.
I'm sure they care about them in an abstract, sucks-to-be-a-starving-kid-in-Somalia sort of way, but you're kidding yourself if you think that their plight has the tiniest inkling of weight in their decision to keep on striking. And I'm not saying it should. I'm just saying it's absurd to rail against the producers for not caring about the poor production crew, as if they're unique in this fact.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
The bigger issue now is it's starting to pinch all production crew workers since they're running out of TV scripts.
That's still not the WGA's fault. The producers can find something for the production crews to do... aren't there millions of optioned scripts out there that never get filmed? Time to get cracking on that backlog.
If the producers were legitimately concerned, they wouldn't hold the crews' fate over the WGA's head.
If you're actually being serious, that's completely dumb. The production crews are not the producers' responsibility, and the blame for their plight is shared equally between the WGA and the producers. They are the civilian casualties in all this. Either side could just as easily cave if they cared about the crew, but for all the rhetoric being lobbed in the name of commiseration, nobody gives a shit about them.
I'm tempted to buy the idea that the WGA caving would not be better for the crews in the long run. It sucks for them now that they're out of work, just like it sucks for the writers to be out of work, but if the studios figure out that the unions are basically powerless, that's not going to be good for anyone.
Adrien on
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
edited December 2007
So what happens next season when the actors and labor unions walk out because of similar issues and end up getting the writers fired during a strike?
I guess I just don't see how the studios haven't settled this yet. If they don't reach an agreement then eventually the other unions will be up for renegotiation and they're going to walk too. Why are they still holding out in a losing battle?
Every TV Series fan I know either purchases the DVD set, or watches them online. (or pirates them online).
Every TV series fan you know is a lousy sample set. People do still occasionally watch TV shows on TV, you know.
Like, most of the time.
Your right, I mean in regards to collecting or keeping the shows as opposed to watching reruns.
I mean, I dont see them being able to air reruns of Heroes or 24 etc, because the plotline is so linear, they either need to catch it on first airing, or a lucky rerun airing the next week. Or they will purchase it online or in boxed set form.
So what happens next season when the actors and labor unions walk out because of similar issues and end up getting the writers fired during a strike?
I guess I just don't see how the studios haven't settled this yet. If they don't reach an agreement then eventually the other unions will be up for renegotiation and they're going to walk too. Why are they still holding out in a losing battle?
Because they want to milk all the profits out of it that they can, regardless of the future health of the industry. Chances are most of them will be out of it or be able to easily retire and start up a consulting firm prior to the industry truly turning to shit.
If you're actually being serious, that's completely dumb. The production crews are not the producers' responsibility, and the blame for their plight is shared equally between the WGA and the producers. They are the civilian casualties in all this. Either side could just as easily cave if they cared about the crew, but for all the rhetoric being lobbed in the name of commiseration, nobody gives a shit about them.
I was joking, but your point isn't accurate. The production crews ARE the producers' responsability. Like... seriously.
The primary role of a television producer is to coordinate and control all aspects of production, ranging from show idea development and cast hiring to shoot supervision and fact-checking. It is often the producer who is responsible for the show's overall quality and survivability, though the roles depend on the particular show or organization.
Some producers take more of an executive role, in that they conceive new programs and pitch them to the networks, but upon acceptance they focus on business matters, such as budgets and contracts. Other producers are more involved with the day-to-day workings, participating in activities such as screenwriting, set design, casting, and even directing.
Because we all know that a wiki can be falsified, let's try something else:
noun
1. someone who manufactures something [syn: manufacturer]
2. someone who finds financing for and supervises the making and presentation of a show (play or film or program or similar work)
3. something that produces; "Maine is a leading producer of potatoes"; "this microorganism is a producer of disease"
By the second option here, it sure sounds like the producer is the "supervisor" of making programming. I call my supervisor "boss." Last I checked, my boss was responsible for me, my work, and my level of productivity.
The producers hold the cards here. The WGA isn't interested in punishing the production crews, they're going for a fair shake. It doesn't make the producers' stance less loathesome because the writers could give up fighting for fairness and get the crews back to work at any time. The producers could cave to the demands, and they're the ones who ARE responsible for the crews.
Every TV Series fan I know either purchases the DVD set, or watches them online. (or pirates them online).
Every TV series fan you know is a lousy sample set. People do still occasionally watch TV shows on TV, you know.
Like, most of the time.
Your right, I mean in regards to collecting or keeping the shows as opposed to watching reruns.
I mean, I dont see them being able to air reruns of Heroes or 24 etc, because the plotline is so linear, they either need to catch it on first airing, or a lucky rerun airing the next week. Or they will purchase it online or in boxed set form.
I'm part of the group that doesn't watch TV. Nor do any of my friends.
I think it's funny that this is the first season I've ever followed TV. Last few years I've downloaded/watched online/DVDs of The Office, Scrubs, and of course last year Heroes. And I find it funny that since I'm finally watching TV they're all going to have to take a break...
All my friends love the shows as well, but nobody watches them on TV, they steal my copies.
Hollywood and Television networks have a genuinely deluded image of how important they are. They still think they're the only source of entertainment out there and cannot be challenged for control.
nexuscrawler on
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ElJeffeRoaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPAMod Emeritus
I was joking, but your point isn't accurate. The production crews ARE the producers' responsability. Like... seriously.
Sorry, what I actually meant was that finding busy work for the production crew to keep them with a steady paycheck is not the producers' responsibility.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
The bigger issue now is it's starting to pinch all production crew workers since they're running out of TV scripts.
That's still not the WGA's fault. The producers can find something for the production crews to do... aren't there millions of optioned scripts out there that never get filmed? Time to get cracking on that backlog.
If the producers were legitimately concerned, they wouldn't hold the crews' fate over the WGA's head.
If you're actually being serious, that's completely dumb. The production crews are not the producers' responsibility, and the blame for their plight is shared equally between the WGA and the producers. They are the civilian casualties in all this. Either side could just as easily cave if they cared about the crew, but for all the rhetoric being lobbed in the name of commiseration, nobody gives a shit about them.
I'm tempted to buy the idea that the WGA caving would not be better for the crews in the long run. It sucks for them now that they're out of work, just like it sucks for the writers to be out of work, but if the studios figure out that the unions are basically powerless, that's not going to be good for anyone.
It's also not good because if the writers lose out on residuals, so do the crews. (The crews get residuals, they're just pooled to fund their health care and pension plans.)
Edit: This video explains how the unions are interlinked.
noun
1. someone who manufactures something [syn: manufacturer]
2. someone who finds financing for and supervises the making and presentation of a show (play or film or program or similar work)
3. something that produces; "Maine is a leading producer of potatoes"; "this microorganism is a producer of disease"
It should be noted that the AMPTP is using definition #1 of the term Producer. Which is why producers (definition #2, as in the bosses of TV show and movies) prefer the media to use the term "studios" instead of "producers." WGA/EGA's beef is with the studios, not the producers.
I was joking, but your point isn't accurate. The production crews ARE the producers' responsability. Like... seriously.
Sorry, what I actually meant was that finding busy work for the production crew to keep them with a steady paycheck is not the producers' responsibility.
Alright, but honestly, the fate of the crews is a bargaining chip of the producers right now, because they could come up with something for them to do, work with almost-finished scripts, bring the crews in on the new reality programming they're bound to be planning... that might even help their case by showing the writers just how much they're not needed. The end product might not be as quality as they might hope, but at least they would be doing right by their employees.
The writers, for their part, probably care about the fate of the crews, but they have to look out for their own interests first and have zero responsability, outside of compassion, to take any action. Besides, if the union fails here, I can't see it long before other unions are trod upon.
It should be noted that the AMPTP is using definition #1 of the term Producer. Which is why producers (definition #2, as in the bosses of TV show and movies) prefer the media to use the term "studios" instead of "producers." WGA/EGA's beef is with the studios, not the producers.
Do the studios not hire the "producer" showrunners?
Posts
Don't they make their money when the stores buy their DVDs, not when the customers do?
Right, but stores buy DVDs based on consumer demand. A customer buying a DVD helps everyone down the chain.
Amidst this Writer's Strike... the unfunniest late-night man on TV, Carson Daily, said he will continue his talk show regardless.
I'm afraid it won't matter. Is there a funny level that's below "shittingly unfunny"? If there is, he just created a name for it.
NNID: Hakkekage
The AMPTP has a pretty serious problem - the WGA has popular support pretty much firmly behind them. This means they're in a pretty good place for a protracted battle. But, there is one opening - a large part of the support is predicated on the AMPTP looking like a bunch of intractable assholes. Solution - not look like intractable assholes. Which is where The Plan comes in.
It's utterly evil, but very effective, especially with force majure looming. But, it hinges on one thing - the offered deal must look "fair". And that's where the AMPTP failed. The deal they offered was anything BUT fair. $250/year for online reruns (with a "promo" clause to allow the rate to be knocked to $0/year)? DVD rates for iTunes (that means out of your average iTunes TV purchase, the writer would only see 2/3 of a penny)? It's like they thought that all they had to do is present some deal, and The Plan would work.
Oh, did I mention what happens if The Plan doesn't work? The backlash whips back to the guy running it. Which means that instead of forcing the WGA to deal, the AMPTP is going to find that the support for them is going to be a whole lot stronger - especially now that the other unions will see how willing the AMPTP is to fuck them over. Even worse, there's no fucking way that the WGA will ever agree to a press blackout again, so now negotiations are going to be out in the open, where the AMPTP will have no way to hide bad behavior.
The AMPTP almost managed to turn the tables on the WGA. But thanks to their greed, they've just sunk deeper into the tar.
When Journeyman inevitably goes I will be very upset. It started out pretty mediocre but it really stepped up and now I need a full damn season.
NNID: Hakkekage
I love how Wil Wheaton is the first person to respond to the blog.
The producers *generously* offered $250 annually for an episode on the web.
Contrast that with the $20,000 that each episode gets for a single rerun.
Why do these producers not realize that the writers are not fucking stupid, and trying to get them to accept less than they get now, for what is soon going to be the preferred method of consumption is beyond me.
Every TV Series fan I know either purchases the DVD set, or watches them online. (or pirates them online).
EDIT: I am also experiencing my Daily Show & Colbert Report withdrawels.
MWO: Adamski
oh wait, it's us
The sad thing is that, now that just about everyone's shows are starting to be affected, some are turning on the WGA.
Either that or the producers are even more tremendous assholes than I thought and are seeding major internet message boards with people talking smack about how "selfish" the WGA are.
Which, in retrospect, doesn't actually seem too unlikely, especially considering that we've heard producer reps basically saying that the strike was over and that they're close to resolution after each bullshit offer, causing enthusiasm and inevitable disappointment when the WGA rejects the unfair deal. "Look, Ma! Viral marketing can work against the proletariat, too!"
That's still not the WGA's fault. The producers can find something for the production crews to do... aren't there millions of optioned scripts out there that never get filmed? Time to get cracking on that backlog.
If the producers were legitimately concerned, they wouldn't hold the crews' fate over the WGA's head.
Prepared scripts will still require rewrites or modifications right? I don't think there's really anything to do without writers.
Also, I want to see every Democratic candidate publically vow that Lehane will NEVER work for their campaign from now on. He wants to be a scab - he can see what it costs him.
I would do without for maybe another 3-6 months, before I start trying to encourage some guerilla style YouTube video's from the WGA where they start selling scripts / publishing privately to bypass the AMPTP somehow.
MWO: Adamski
So the producers adapt the scripts themselves, pay themselves more money, then release utter shit. It's not like they haven't pushed utter shit at us before. I mean The Watcher, starring Sir-Mix-A-Lot, was green-lit for our edification once upon a time. "You gonna lose yo money an' yo hunny!"
You think production crews care if they're making quality shows anymore? I'm guessing they're happy to get a paycheck.
If you're actually being serious, that's completely dumb. The production crews are not the producers' responsibility, and the blame for their plight is shared equally between the WGA and the producers. They are the civilian casualties in all this. Either side could just as easily cave if they cared about the crew, but for all the rhetoric being lobbed in the name of commiseration, nobody gives a shit about them.
Sure the WGA could cave in but them not caving does not signify that they do not care about the crews.
Every TV series fan you know is a lousy sample set. People do still occasionally watch TV shows on TV, you know.
Like, most of the time.
I'm sure they care about them in an abstract, sucks-to-be-a-starving-kid-in-Somalia sort of way, but you're kidding yourself if you think that their plight has the tiniest inkling of weight in their decision to keep on striking. And I'm not saying it should. I'm just saying it's absurd to rail against the producers for not caring about the poor production crew, as if they're unique in this fact.
I'm tempted to buy the idea that the WGA caving would not be better for the crews in the long run. It sucks for them now that they're out of work, just like it sucks for the writers to be out of work, but if the studios figure out that the unions are basically powerless, that's not going to be good for anyone.
I guess I just don't see how the studios haven't settled this yet. If they don't reach an agreement then eventually the other unions will be up for renegotiation and they're going to walk too. Why are they still holding out in a losing battle?
Your right, I mean in regards to collecting or keeping the shows as opposed to watching reruns.
I mean, I dont see them being able to air reruns of Heroes or 24 etc, because the plotline is so linear, they either need to catch it on first airing, or a lucky rerun airing the next week. Or they will purchase it online or in boxed set form.
MWO: Adamski
Because they have immense resources outside of Hollywood that they can tap.
Also they like money.
Because they want to milk all the profits out of it that they can, regardless of the future health of the industry. Chances are most of them will be out of it or be able to easily retire and start up a consulting firm prior to the industry truly turning to shit.
MWO: Adamski
I was joking, but your point isn't accurate. The production crews ARE the producers' responsability. Like... seriously.
Because we all know that a wiki can be falsified, let's try something else:
By the second option here, it sure sounds like the producer is the "supervisor" of making programming. I call my supervisor "boss." Last I checked, my boss was responsible for me, my work, and my level of productivity.
The producers hold the cards here. The WGA isn't interested in punishing the production crews, they're going for a fair shake. It doesn't make the producers' stance less loathesome because the writers could give up fighting for fairness and get the crews back to work at any time. The producers could cave to the demands, and they're the ones who ARE responsible for the crews.
I think it's funny that this is the first season I've ever followed TV. Last few years I've downloaded/watched online/DVDs of The Office, Scrubs, and of course last year Heroes. And I find it funny that since I'm finally watching TV they're all going to have to take a break...
All my friends love the shows as well, but nobody watches them on TV, they steal my copies.
Sorry, what I actually meant was that finding busy work for the production crew to keep them with a steady paycheck is not the producers' responsibility.
It's also not good because if the writers lose out on residuals, so do the crews. (The crews get residuals, they're just pooled to fund their health care and pension plans.)
Edit: This video explains how the unions are interlinked.
Alright, but honestly, the fate of the crews is a bargaining chip of the producers right now, because they could come up with something for them to do, work with almost-finished scripts, bring the crews in on the new reality programming they're bound to be planning... that might even help their case by showing the writers just how much they're not needed. The end product might not be as quality as they might hope, but at least they would be doing right by their employees.
The writers, for their part, probably care about the fate of the crews, but they have to look out for their own interests first and have zero responsability, outside of compassion, to take any action. Besides, if the union fails here, I can't see it long before other unions are trod upon.
Do the studios not hire the "producer" showrunners?