Those are cute, although I find it odd that there are actually two separate female-oriented responses to 'the dangerous book for boys' currently in shops, and all three are marketed to look the same. I'm pretty sure they're not from the same publishing house, surely there's Issues arising there?
Also, I'm pretty sure you got the better one of the two, from what little I spotted flicking through them both.
When I start getting my brother's children presents they're getting books. They'll hate me for it til they're grounded for a week.
Also, on nature vs. nurture and personal anecdotes, he's a massive wrestling fan and both his oldest son and daughter are on wrestling teams because they wanted to be more like dad. Good for them.
My two year old niece likes nothing more than her toy trucks
Best toy we had as kids was our dad ad some leftover wood from building our house so he cut it into blocks and sanded them down. Seriously those blocks lasted like 6 years
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
Oh I see they make action figures of girls now. That's new, when I was little the only one was Leia, and it always seemed wierd to me because I know in real life there are more women than just Carrie Fisher.
But none superior.
I'll never buy my nephew a pink toy, but that's just because I really, really hate the color pink. I don't think it should be used as gender stereotype, and I just don't think it should be used....I usually just buy him video games, which I guess go both ways, depending on the game.
Oh I see they make action figures of girls now. That's new, when I was little the only one was Leia, and it always seemed wierd to me because I know in real life there are more women than just Carrie Fisher.
But none superior.
I'll never buy my nephew a pink toy, but that's just because I really, really hate the color pink. I don't think it should be used as gender stereotype, and I just don't think it should be used....I usually just buy him video games, which I guess go both ways, depending on the game.
The color pink rarely looks good. Even when it's used as a contrast-colour for a mostly black item I can't help but think that purple or red would have been a better choice. But whether or not you and I like pink isn't terribly relevant to the issues being discussed. The problem isn't that girls got assigned the shitty color, it's that girls got assigned a specific color for the purpose of differentiating girl-stuff from boy-stuff. When they stopped making such a large proportion of boy-stuff blue but amped up the usage of pink to mark girl-stuff it got even wierder I think because it's no longer marking a difference between boy-stuff and girl-stuff so much as it draws a distinction between normal-stuff and girl-stuff. One step forward, two steps back.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
Oh I see they make action figures of girls now. That's new, when I was little the only one was Leia, and it always seemed wierd to me because I know in real life there are more women than just Carrie Fisher.
But none superior.
I'll never buy my nephew a pink toy, but that's just because I really, really hate the color pink. I don't think it should be used as gender stereotype, and I just don't think it should be used....I usually just buy him video games, which I guess go both ways, depending on the game.
The color pink rarely looks good. Even when it's used as a contrast-colour for a mostly black item I can't help but think that purple or red would have been a better choice. But whether or not you and I like pink isn't terribly relevant to the issues being discussed. The problem isn't that girls got assigned the shitty color, it's that girls got assigned a specific color for the purpose of differentiating girl-stuff from boy-stuff. When they stopped making such a large proportion of boy-stuff blue but amped up the usage of pink to mark girl-stuff it got even wierder I think because it's no longer marking a difference between boy-stuff and girl-stuff so much as it draws a distinction between normal-stuff and girl-stuff. One step forward, two steps back.
Honestly man, I never really noticed that until you brought it up. Blue stops being the boy color when the kid gets to be like four, but you walk into a wal mart or toys r us and there is an entire row that's solid pink... That is kind of fucked up......
Also, I had one of those oven things when I was a kid, because my mother was a good cook, and I wanted to learn. That oven was the shit... I'd make a single bite of cake in just under 40 MINUTES! My folks didn't really do the whole gender roles thing. My dad pushed sports, but not because I was a boy, just because he loved sports. He did the same thing with my sisters.
Not all of it is a result of enforcing gender roles.
I talked about this in the previous thread; they did research on newly-babies. They showed them pictures crowded with objects and people. They found out that the male babies eyes tend to focus on objects and they try to touch those objects, whereas female babies tend to focus on people and they try to touch those people (particularly the facial area).
In no way can this possibly excuse marketing a toy washing machine to 6 year old girls. Which is the kind of thing infesting my local kmart. It also doesn't excuse the pink tide washing over the girls' section. It also fails to explain the popularity of GI Joe style toys among boys. Come on, ege, you're doing your stupid overextrapolation thing again. We just went through this shit last week :x
The problem is marketing it as "for girls only." Everyone should know about laundry! And pretty much all little kids like to mimic what they see their parents doing, so I don't have an issue with having pretend-appliances. They should be marketed equally, and hopefully have a picture of a boy and a girl on the box, and such, but I don't think the actual existence of toy appliances is a bad thing.
I'd rather put 'em to work for real and then let them spend their playtime on actual fun, though. Housework isn't something to aspire to, its not particularly creative or skillful (cooking excepted). Its just a default expectation that one should know how to take care of one's stuff. Children's available playtime should emphasise exactly the things pretend-cleaning doesn't, in my mind.
Housework as part of being a self-sufficient adult is, in my mind, certainly a thing to aspire to, and having it as a part of playtime for both genders would do a lot to help with the "women's work" stereotype. Kids play at doing plenty of things that adults don't find to be "fun" all the time. I'm not terribly fond of carpentry, for example, but when I was a kid, I loved those boards where you hammer the shapes through to the other side, and it helped me learn to not hit my thumb.
Besides, I'm not sure how over-scheduled today's kids are, but I remember having lots and lots and lots of playtime, time enough to play games about housekeeping and pirates and Yoshi and Mario (this involved piggyback rides) and cops and robbers, legos, Star Trek, underwater kingdom, airship battles, lions...and I'm leaving out hundreds of things. If a kid doesn't have enough playtime to get to explore a wide variety of pretend-skills and identities, that's much more of a problem than a pretend washing machine.
(Besides, the washing machine probably will turn into the secret cave or time travel machine on a regular basis. I've never once met a kid who uses toys just for their intended purpose.)
Oh I see they make action figures of girls now. That's new, when I was little the only one was Leia, and it always seemed wierd to me because I know in real life there are more women than just Carrie Fisher.
But none superior.
I'll never buy my nephew a pink toy, but that's just because I really, really hate the color pink. I don't think it should be used as gender stereotype, and I just don't think it should be used....I usually just buy him video games, which I guess go both ways, depending on the game.
The color pink rarely looks good. Even when it's used as a contrast-colour for a mostly black item I can't help but think that purple or red would have been a better choice. But whether or not you and I like pink isn't terribly relevant to the issues being discussed. The problem isn't that girls got assigned the shitty color, it's that girls got assigned a specific color for the purpose of differentiating girl-stuff from boy-stuff. When they stopped making such a large proportion of boy-stuff blue but amped up the usage of pink to mark girl-stuff it got even wierder I think because it's no longer marking a difference between boy-stuff and girl-stuff so much as it draws a distinction between normal-stuff and girl-stuff. One step forward, two steps back.
There's two other problems with it too: a) the pink idiocy extends right into marketing aimed at adult women, and b) a pinkified product is most often noticeably crappier than the default. Fewer features, poorer quality materials, and usually costs more. This covers everything fromhand tools to one north american airline website that has a 'women's section' in some sort of idiotic attempt to pander to female flyers (sorry, can't remember the name of the company. suffice to say, the interface is shit and there are fewer options to buy, in return for the possibility of winning manicures or some nonsense). But yeah, the chief problem is its intent, which is to ghettoise the feminine as Not The Normal Way To Be.
Not all of it is a result of enforcing gender roles.
I talked about this in the previous thread; they did research on newly-babies. They showed them pictures crowded with objects and people. They found out that the male babies eyes tend to focus on objects and they try to touch those objects, whereas female babies tend to focus on people and they try to touch those people (particularly the facial area).
In no way can this possibly excuse marketing a toy washing machine to 6 year old girls. Which is the kind of thing infesting my local kmart. It also doesn't excuse the pink tide washing over the girls' section. It also fails to explain the popularity of GI Joe style toys among boys. Come on, ege, you're doing your stupid overextrapolation thing again. We just went through this shit last week :x
I work in the toy department of a large department store in a less-than-glamorous part of town. Funniest toy we ever sold: Toy McDonald's kitchen, complete with deep-fryer, headset and drive-though window. Glorious.
Also, the point about Lego is a good one - a lot of toys are (for want of a better term) gender-neutral. Is a slinky for boys or girls? A garden-science microscope kit? Uno? Out of my 12 toy aisles, only three or four are stereotypical girly dolls or boy's cars and guns. The majority are things that aren't marketed towards a specific gender.
Not all of it is a result of enforcing gender roles.
I talked about this in the previous thread; they did research on newly-babies. They showed them pictures crowded with objects and people. They found out that the male babies eyes tend to focus on objects and they try to touch those objects, whereas female babies tend to focus on people and they try to touch those people (particularly the facial area).
In no way can this possibly excuse marketing a toy washing machine to 6 year old girls. Which is the kind of thing infesting my local kmart. It also doesn't excuse the pink tide washing over the girls' section. It also fails to explain the popularity of GI Joe style toys among boys. Come on, ege, you're doing your stupid overextrapolation thing again. We just went through this shit last week :x
The problem is marketing it as "for girls only." Everyone should know about laundry! And pretty much all little kids like to mimic what they see their parents doing, so I don't have an issue with having pretend-appliances. They should be marketed equally, and hopefully have a picture of a boy and a girl on the box, and such, but I don't think the actual existence of toy appliances is a bad thing.
I'd rather put 'em to work for real and then let them spend their playtime on actual fun, though. Housework isn't something to aspire to, its not particularly creative or skillful (cooking excepted). Its just a default expectation that one should know how to take care of one's stuff. Children's available playtime should emphasise exactly the things pretend-cleaning doesn't, in my mind.
Housework as part of being a self-sufficient adult is, in my mind, certainly a thing to aspire to, and having it as a part of playtime for both genders would do a lot to help with the "women's work" stereotype. Kids play at doing plenty of things that adults don't find to be "fun" all the time. I'm not terribly fond of carpentry, for example, but when I was a kid, I loved those boards where you hammer the shapes through to the other side, and it helped me learn to not hit my thumb.
Besides, I'm not sure how over-scheduled today's kids are, but I remember having lots and lots and lots of playtime, time enough to play games about housekeeping and pirates and Yoshi and Mario (this involved piggyback rides) and cops and robbers, legos, Star Trek, underwater kingdom, airship battles, lions...and I'm leaving out hundreds of things. If a kid doesn't have enough playtime to get to explore a wide variety of pretend-skills and identities, that's much more of a problem than a pretend washing machine.
(Besides, the washing machine probably will turn into the secret cave or time travel machine on a regular basis. I've never once met a kid who uses toys just for their intended purpose.)
That Fisher-Price kitchen-set was the best space-fortress I ever had.
I have a simple rule. Everyone gets books. Those that can't read get the wrapping paper that the aforementioned books arrived in. Apparently they like it.
That Fisher-Price kitchen-set was the best space-fortress I ever had.
Did you have the one with the yellow folding-out counter and the spice-rack area on top? With the pictures of condiments painted on the inside? That was perfect for docking those little Star Wars ships. As I recall, it was all primary colors too, so no worries about pink everything.
That Fisher-Price kitchen-set was the best space-fortress I ever had.
Did you have the one with the yellow folding-out counter and the spice-rack area on top? With the pictures of condiments painted on the inside? That was perfect for docking those little Star Wars ships. As I recall, it was all primary colors too, so no worries about pink everything.
I think so, definitely had the collapsible counter. It turns out it was Little Tikes, and I remember the counter being cream and it had a green roof-thing on the top of it, and racks inside the oven for multiple flight-decks. We also had the play-McDonalds. So the two fortresses would be in opposite corners of the basement and the battles would happen all over the room.
In any case, as long as we do not prescribe behavior and actual roles, I don't see where the problem is with simple things like giving boys blue toys and girls pink toys.
It's just a color for fuck's sake.
I have a problem with toy washing machines being marketed to girls exclusively.
I don't have a problem with those toy washing machines being pink.
I have a problem with the concept of toy washing machines. Laundry's not fun. What's next, a toy toothbrush to grout the tub of Barbie's Dreamhouse?
Playing with dolls seems to be equally appealing to boys and girls, if the consumer base of The Sims is any indication.
yeah, and its flat out weird that a game with a rougly 50/50 gender divide in the player base is immediately thought of as a 'girls game'. Its like all the guys become invisible as soon as a sizeable fraction of female players emerges.
I have a problem with the concept of toy washing machines. Laundry's not fun. What's next, a toy toothbrush to grout the tub of Barbie's Dreamhouse?
Playing with dolls seems to be equally appealing to boys and girls, if the consumer base of The Sims is any indication.
Laundry isn't fun to adults because we have to do it. Along with the rest of the "pretend grown-up" sort of play, pretending to do laundry is fun to kids, because they like to imitate the adults around them and they don't really have to do it. A construction- or home-improvement-themed doll would be fun for kids, I think. They sure seem to like that Bob the Builder show, and who didn't have a toy tool kit? I sure did.
I'd rather put 'em to work for real and then let them spend their playtime on actual fun, though. Housework isn't something to aspire to, its not particularly creative or skillful (cooking excepted). Its just a default expectation that one should know how to take care of one's stuff. Children's available playtime should emphasise exactly the things pretend-cleaning doesn't, in my mind.
I disagree assuming that a toy washing machine wasn't the only toy you got them. Playtime is playtime regardless of what the kid does. They'll have fun if they want to. And one of the important things about playtime is developing the mundane and commonplace skills that an adult needs. So long as a kid's having fun with pretend laundry, fuck it, let them. I don't see it as being any more counter productive than letting them spin in circles til they fall down.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
When my parents took my dinosaurs away I would hook all four controllers to the Nintendo 64, load up Goldeneye, and have all four players be civilians and play house in the multiplayer mode.
You can't stop me, mom and dad! ... In a... non-tangential sense. ...
Toys have gotten cool? Buy your kids Legos. And yourself.
I'm really curious how this worked out. Unlike dolls or action figures there's not really any way to interact with anything in Goldeneye other than the weapons and doors.
I have visions of play-drama degenerating into four way slapping fights.
Compared with the "boy"s section are things that lit up, that moved, that could do something. They were far more interesting.
Male shopper finds "boys toys" "more interesting" that "girls toys." Marketers everywhere feel vindicated.
In any case, yes, Legos are the best. Unfortunately the makers of Legos are aware of this and make them prohibitively expensive for a lot of people. Also, they are almost all sets with a specific thing to be built out of them now, rather than encouraging kids to be creative and build something of their own design.
yeah, and its flat out weird that a game with a rougly 50/50 gender divide in the player base is immediately thought of as a 'girls game'. Its like all the guys become invisible as soon as a sizeable fraction of female players emerges.
It becomes a "girls game" because the female playerbase in The Sims is significantly bigger than the female populations in the vast majority of video games, which are generally negligible.
Not saying it's right, but it's not exactly weird either.
When my parents took my dinosaurs away I would hook all four controllers to the Nintendo 64, load up Goldeneye, and have all four players be civilians and play house in the multiplayer mode.
You can't stop me, mom and dad! ... In a... non-tangential sense. ...
Toys have gotten cool? Buy your kids Legos. And yourself.
I'm really curious how this worked out. Unlike dolls or action figures there's not really any way to interact with anything in Goldeneye other than the weapons and doors.
I have visions of play-drama degenerating into four way slapping fights.
Proximity Mines = Susan B. Anthony dollars (my father had a coin collection that I had gotten to play with sometimes), ammo boxes = whatever commodity I wanted, manipulated by shooting them
I would go to that map with the green and beige color scheme and all of the ramps, and to one of the corners with the glass windows and make a storefront by shooting a sign into the wall (paintball mode)
and then people would come and buy things
things like groceries, to make supper for their wife/husband
and you can bet they're made of the shittiest steel in the warehouse.
t quid you will never convince me that even pretend laundry is better than spinning till you fall over. I saw a toy vacuum cleaner in the shop today. You can't tell me buying a kid that isn't going to Send Them A Message. Although I'm sure you'll try, because you're not subject to the pressure to keep things clean that women are, and I don't think you fully understand what its like.
There's no reason this crap should be around, either. The really little-kid stuff was awesome, all bright colours and noises and hilarious farm animals and such. It doesn't get pinkified until age 6 or so, and then its just relentless.
When my parents took my dinosaurs away I would hook all four controllers to the Nintendo 64, load up Goldeneye, and have all four players be civilians and play house in the multiplayer mode.
You can't stop me, mom and dad! ... In a... non-tangential sense. ...
Toys have gotten cool? Buy your kids Legos. And yourself.
I'm really curious how this worked out. Unlike dolls or action figures there's not really any way to interact with anything in Goldeneye other than the weapons and doors.
I have visions of play-drama degenerating into four way slapping fights.
One of the oddist things I remember seeing on TV was one of those "lets look at how much time kids spend playing video games and is it healthy" news stories that come around regularly. It was an Australian article in this case and it had one case of a family who basically used Goldeneye 64 as their primary way of keeping their baby (I assume he must have been 1-2 y.o) quiet. It was rather surreal watching a baby playing Goldeneye.
t quid you will never convince me that even pretend laundry is better than spinning till you fall over. I saw a toy vacuum cleaner in the shop today. You can't tell me buying a kid that isn't going to Send Them A Message. Although I'm sure you'll try, because you're not subject to the pressure to keep things clean that women are, and I don't think you fully understand what its like.
Maybe I should clarify: Inherantly they aren't bad. Admittedly this does no good right now and I suppose I was being overly idealistic when it came to parents/society today not enforcing gender roles.
t quid you will never convince me that even pretend laundry is better than spinning till you fall over. I saw a toy vacuum cleaner in the shop today. You can't tell me buying a kid that isn't going to Send Them A Message. Although I'm sure you'll try, because you're not subject to the pressure to keep things clean that women are, and I don't think you fully understand what its like.
I had a toy vacuum cleaner as a kid and I loved it.
and you can bet they're made of the shittiest steel in the warehouse.
t quid you will never convince me that even pretend laundry is better than spinning till you fall over. I saw a toy vacuum cleaner in the shop today. You can't tell me buying a kid that isn't going to Send Them A Message. Although I'm sure you'll try, because you're not subject to the pressure to keep things clean that women are, and I don't think you fully understand what its like.
There's no reason this crap should be around, either. The really little-kid stuff was awesome, all bright colours and noises and hilarious farm animals and such. It doesn't get pinkified until age 6 or so, and then its just relentless.
I had a toy lawnmower.
I also did the dishes and apparently loved it alot when I was a kid.
As soon as I have kids, you know what the first gift under the tree will be? A first person shooter. Boy or girl. Hand eye co-ordination ftw! I will personally tape the controllers to their hands.
t quid you will never convince me that even pretend laundry is better than spinning till you fall over. I saw a toy vacuum cleaner in the shop today. You can't tell me buying a kid that isn't going to Send Them A Message. Although I'm sure you'll try, because you're not subject to the pressure to keep things clean that women are, and I don't think you fully understand what its like.
I had a toy vacuum cleaner as a kid and I loved it.
As did I, following mom around as she vacuumed was fun back then. Too bad it didn't stick as my mess proves, but it also didn't send a message to me re: women's work or any of that nonsense because my mom didn't suck as a parent and neither did my dad, or extended family. I may not be as much of a raging feminist as I could be, and perhaps that is Fisher Price's fault, but I still self-identify as one and all that.
Also, that design for a utility knife is the absolute shittiest one possible if you want to do anything remotely accurately and without digging into your hand. You'd want to get one that's got less exposed steel at the grip and a shallower corner where the blade comes out rather than a rounded one like it has so there's less space between where you want it and where it actually is. Plus you need a phillips head to change out the blade once it does go dull, and it doesn't actually have any space inside of it to hold some spares.
Compared with the "boy"s section are things that lit up, that moved, that could do something. They were far more interesting.
Male shopper finds "boys toys" "more interesting" that "girls toys." Marketers everywhere feel vindicated.
In any case, yes, Legos are the best. Unfortunately the makers of Legos are aware of this and make them prohibitively expensive for a lot of people. Also, they are almost all sets with a specific thing to be built out of them now, rather than encouraging kids to be creative and build something of their own design.
Actually, I found as a kid that I got a lot more creative with the more specific Harry Potter or Temple of Doom pr whatever sets then the generic piles of blocks, mostly because you get much more interesting pieces in the specific ones. I agree, though, that Lego is far too expensive for pieces of plastic.
Compared with the "boy"s section are things that lit up, that moved, that could do something. They were far more interesting.
Male shopper finds "boys toys" "more interesting" that "girls toys." Marketers everywhere feel vindicated.
In any case, yes, Legos are the best. Unfortunately the makers of Legos are aware of this and make them prohibitively expensive for a lot of people. Also, they are almost all sets with a specific thing to be built out of them now, rather than encouraging kids to be creative and build something of their own design.
Actually, I found as a kid that I got a lot more creative with the more specific Harry Potter or Temple of Doom pr whatever sets then the generic piles of blocks, mostly because you get much more interesting pieces in the specific ones. I agree, though, that Lego is far too expensive for pieces of plastic.
Well, I'm going to date myself here probably but here goes anyway.
[old man on stump] Back in my day expensive toys were shipped in molded styrofoam. I distinctly remember getting a huge ass transformer that turned into it's own base. Well I played with that for about 10 minutes and then my cousin came over and we had all out war setting up minibases and shit on the two styrofoam pieces for HOURS.
I was pissed when the dog stepped on the transformer and broke him in half though. Fucking dog.
[old man on stump] Back in my day expensive toys were shipped in molded styrofoam. I distinctly remember getting a huge ass transformer that turned into it's own base. Well I played with that for about 10 minutes and then my cousin came over and we had all out war setting up minibases and shit on the two styrofoam pieces for HOURS.
Hooarr, bark in moi day, we'ad toys shipped in moulded lead we did. 'ad to eat it all afor t' Queen's Speech too, or you'll no 'ave got yer suet pudd'n!
Yeah, that styrofoam has been going on since the early 70's at least, often more important than the actual toy that. Here's a topical shocker: I once found pink styrofoam in a toy box when I was a kid. :shock:
As soon as I have kids, you know what the first gift under the tree will be? A first person shooter. Boy or girl. Hand eye co-ordination ftw! I will personally tape the controllers to their hands.
Man if I want my kids coordinated it's a cricket set or a football. Years of vidya games has done nothing for my coordination. I do have rather strong thumbs though.
Edit: for relevance to the topic I'll be getting them the same sporting gear regardless of gender.
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Also, I'm pretty sure you got the better one of the two, from what little I spotted flicking through them both.
Seriously.
Best toys I've ever owned:
Legos
Magic: the Gathering
Settlers of Catan
All fo them are pretty much gender-neutral in how they're sold, but Magic is kind of short on girl players, last time I checked.
Also, on nature vs. nurture and personal anecdotes, he's a massive wrestling fan and both his oldest son and daughter are on wrestling teams because they wanted to be more like dad. Good for them.
Best toy we had as kids was our dad ad some leftover wood from building our house so he cut it into blocks and sanded them down. Seriously those blocks lasted like 6 years
I'll never buy my nephew a pink toy, but that's just because I really, really hate the color pink. I don't think it should be used as gender stereotype, and I just don't think it should be used....I usually just buy him video games, which I guess go both ways, depending on the game.
The color pink rarely looks good. Even when it's used as a contrast-colour for a mostly black item I can't help but think that purple or red would have been a better choice. But whether or not you and I like pink isn't terribly relevant to the issues being discussed. The problem isn't that girls got assigned the shitty color, it's that girls got assigned a specific color for the purpose of differentiating girl-stuff from boy-stuff. When they stopped making such a large proportion of boy-stuff blue but amped up the usage of pink to mark girl-stuff it got even wierder I think because it's no longer marking a difference between boy-stuff and girl-stuff so much as it draws a distinction between normal-stuff and girl-stuff. One step forward, two steps back.
Honestly man, I never really noticed that until you brought it up. Blue stops being the boy color when the kid gets to be like four, but you walk into a wal mart or toys r us and there is an entire row that's solid pink... That is kind of fucked up......
Also, I had one of those oven things when I was a kid, because my mother was a good cook, and I wanted to learn. That oven was the shit... I'd make a single bite of cake in just under 40 MINUTES! My folks didn't really do the whole gender roles thing. My dad pushed sports, but not because I was a boy, just because he loved sports. He did the same thing with my sisters.
Housework as part of being a self-sufficient adult is, in my mind, certainly a thing to aspire to, and having it as a part of playtime for both genders would do a lot to help with the "women's work" stereotype. Kids play at doing plenty of things that adults don't find to be "fun" all the time. I'm not terribly fond of carpentry, for example, but when I was a kid, I loved those boards where you hammer the shapes through to the other side, and it helped me learn to not hit my thumb.
Besides, I'm not sure how over-scheduled today's kids are, but I remember having lots and lots and lots of playtime, time enough to play games about housekeeping and pirates and Yoshi and Mario (this involved piggyback rides) and cops and robbers, legos, Star Trek, underwater kingdom, airship battles, lions...and I'm leaving out hundreds of things. If a kid doesn't have enough playtime to get to explore a wide variety of pretend-skills and identities, that's much more of a problem than a pretend washing machine.
(Besides, the washing machine probably will turn into the secret cave or time travel machine on a regular basis. I've never once met a kid who uses toys just for their intended purpose.)
There's two other problems with it too: a) the pink idiocy extends right into marketing aimed at adult women, and b) a pinkified product is most often noticeably crappier than the default. Fewer features, poorer quality materials, and usually costs more. This covers everything fromhand tools to one north american airline website that has a 'women's section' in some sort of idiotic attempt to pander to female flyers (sorry, can't remember the name of the company. suffice to say, the interface is shit and there are fewer options to buy, in return for the possibility of winning manicures or some nonsense). But yeah, the chief problem is its intent, which is to ghettoise the feminine as Not The Normal Way To Be.
I work in the toy department of a large department store in a less-than-glamorous part of town. Funniest toy we ever sold: Toy McDonald's kitchen, complete with deep-fryer, headset and drive-though window. Glorious.
Also, the point about Lego is a good one - a lot of toys are (for want of a better term) gender-neutral. Is a slinky for boys or girls? A garden-science microscope kit? Uno? Out of my 12 toy aisles, only three or four are stereotypical girly dolls or boy's cars and guns. The majority are things that aren't marketed towards a specific gender.
That Fisher-Price kitchen-set was the best space-fortress I ever had.
Did you have the one with the yellow folding-out counter and the spice-rack area on top? With the pictures of condiments painted on the inside? That was perfect for docking those little Star Wars ships. As I recall, it was all primary colors too, so no worries about pink everything.
I think so, definitely had the collapsible counter. It turns out it was Little Tikes, and I remember the counter being cream and it had a green roof-thing on the top of it, and racks inside the oven for multiple flight-decks. We also had the play-McDonalds. So the two fortresses would be in opposite corners of the basement and the battles would happen all over the room.
I have a problem with the concept of toy washing machines. Laundry's not fun. What's next, a toy toothbrush to grout the tub of Barbie's Dreamhouse?
Playing with dolls seems to be equally appealing to boys and girls, if the consumer base of The Sims is any indication.
Laundry isn't fun to adults because we have to do it. Along with the rest of the "pretend grown-up" sort of play, pretending to do laundry is fun to kids, because they like to imitate the adults around them and they don't really have to do it. A construction- or home-improvement-themed doll would be fun for kids, I think. They sure seem to like that Bob the Builder show, and who didn't have a toy tool kit? I sure did.
I'm really curious how this worked out. Unlike dolls or action figures there's not really any way to interact with anything in Goldeneye other than the weapons and doors.
I have visions of play-drama degenerating into four way slapping fights.
In any case, yes, Legos are the best. Unfortunately the makers of Legos are aware of this and make them prohibitively expensive for a lot of people. Also, they are almost all sets with a specific thing to be built out of them now, rather than encouraging kids to be creative and build something of their own design.
It becomes a "girls game" because the female playerbase in The Sims is significantly bigger than the female populations in the vast majority of video games, which are generally negligible.
Not saying it's right, but it's not exactly weird either.
I would go to that map with the green and beige color scheme and all of the ramps, and to one of the corners with the glass windows and make a storefront by shooting a sign into the wall (paintball mode)
and then people would come and buy things
things like groceries, to make supper for their wife/husband
"The tools are even highlighted in a cool pink hue to give them a funky touch. "
and you can bet they're made of the shittiest steel in the warehouse.
t quid you will never convince me that even pretend laundry is better than spinning till you fall over. I saw a toy vacuum cleaner in the shop today. You can't tell me buying a kid that isn't going to Send Them A Message. Although I'm sure you'll try, because you're not subject to the pressure to keep things clean that women are, and I don't think you fully understand what its like.
There's no reason this crap should be around, either. The really little-kid stuff was awesome, all bright colours and noises and hilarious farm animals and such. It doesn't get pinkified until age 6 or so, and then its just relentless.
One of the oddist things I remember seeing on TV was one of those "lets look at how much time kids spend playing video games and is it healthy" news stories that come around regularly. It was an Australian article in this case and it had one case of a family who basically used Goldeneye 64 as their primary way of keeping their baby (I assume he must have been 1-2 y.o) quiet. It was rather surreal watching a baby playing Goldeneye.
Maybe I should clarify: Inherantly they aren't bad. Admittedly this does no good right now and I suppose I was being overly idealistic when it came to parents/society today not enforcing gender roles.
My Little Pony had an awesome castle set when I was a kid. :P
I had a toy lawnmower.
I also did the dishes and apparently loved it alot when I was a kid.
Guess I was getting mixed messages.
As did I, following mom around as she vacuumed was fun back then. Too bad it didn't stick as my mess proves, but it also didn't send a message to me re: women's work or any of that nonsense because my mom didn't suck as a parent and neither did my dad, or extended family. I may not be as much of a raging feminist as I could be, and perhaps that is Fisher Price's fault, but I still self-identify as one and all that.
Also, that design for a utility knife is the absolute shittiest one possible if you want to do anything remotely accurately and without digging into your hand. You'd want to get one that's got less exposed steel at the grip and a shallower corner where the blade comes out rather than a rounded one like it has so there's less space between where you want it and where it actually is. Plus you need a phillips head to change out the blade once it does go dull, and it doesn't actually have any space inside of it to hold some spares.
Actually, I found as a kid that I got a lot more creative with the more specific Harry Potter or Temple of Doom pr whatever sets then the generic piles of blocks, mostly because you get much more interesting pieces in the specific ones. I agree, though, that Lego is far too expensive for pieces of plastic.
Well, I'm going to date myself here probably but here goes anyway.
[old man on stump] Back in my day expensive toys were shipped in molded styrofoam. I distinctly remember getting a huge ass transformer that turned into it's own base. Well I played with that for about 10 minutes and then my cousin came over and we had all out war setting up minibases and shit on the two styrofoam pieces for HOURS.
I was pissed when the dog stepped on the transformer and broke him in half though. Fucking dog.
Hooarr, bark in moi day, we'ad toys shipped in moulded lead we did. 'ad to eat it all afor t' Queen's Speech too, or you'll no 'ave got yer suet pudd'n!
Yeah, that styrofoam has been going on since the early 70's at least, often more important than the actual toy that. Here's a topical shocker: I once found pink styrofoam in a toy box when I was a kid. :shock:
Edit: for relevance to the topic I'll be getting them the same sporting gear regardless of gender.
This article seemed appropriate.
If you ever wonder where misogyny comes from, it's women like this.
"I always spend a lot of money on my boyfriend or husband"
"During my 30 years of dating"
I think that kind of cinches it.