Sometimes I think North American corporations are more inclined to ass reaming is because of the high corporate tax, and the fact that it is a corporate state. I think it's hard to have both at the same time.
they send collection agencies for amounts under $1000?
especially if the actualy overdrafted amount that the bank actually lost is often not even half that of the total amount owed?
Yuppers. I got to deal with a colleciton agency for the overdraft fees I had that resulted from a mass of bounced checks. Check for car repairs that posted on the account+me missing said check being taken off due to the repair shop failing to endorse the check+multiple checks being written in the meantime+same repair check then posting two weeks later along with 14 checks ranging from $5-$15+me walking away from the bank because they refused to work with me on the $35 overdraft fees totaling $490=colleciton agency.
A decent sized fee for me being stupid enough to trust my online banking and not keep a proper ledger? Yeah, I can see that. $500 for trusting my banks online banking though? That kind of struck me as extreme.
What really pissed me off though is when I talked to the repair shop and found out what happened the bank refused to admit that the check had ever shown online or even acknowledge it had tried to clear previously. At that point I cancelled my direct deposit with my employer, deposited $112 to cover the checks and walked away. I found out a few months later they had sold the account to a collection agency when I recieved one of those pleasant letters.
I actually had a friend try and convince me to hire a lawyer to fight it but I figured I probably wouldn't have a leg to stand on and that a lawyer would cost far more than just paying off the debt.
Yeah its important to get that stuff resolved before walking away. Again, a lot of times if you complain enough and raise enough of a stink they'll overturn those kinds of fees, especially if you have money in the bank. (This applies to parents, grandparents, etc, having someone with a significant of money in the bank call to complain or go in with you and say who they are and that they are factoring it in where to keep the entire family's deposits can help tremendously. It's a HUGE headache for banks to have someone suddenly withdraw a bunch of money, suddenly losing anything over 10-20 thousand will absolutely ruin a managers day, especially at smaller banks) The usual customer service stuff about sending email to corporate, that kind of thing, and using up customer service people's time can work too. Banks can and do waive these fees all the time, especially if you don't have a previous history of overdraft.
What you absolutely do NOT do is leave a balance and walk a way from it, you WILL hear from it again.
I enjoy the percentage fee on international money withdrawals. I think it's 2% for most US banks - started in 2006 or early 2007. That means you get:
an ATM fee (...some banks have 'use our brand ATMs without fees...well you know what, there's no First Federal or Associated or 83rd Federal or whatever in Europe),
a currency exchange 'fee' (there's a percentage added to the currency exchange rates you'll get on sites like x-rates.com so banks can make money on those transactions),
and then they take another percentage of the money you're taking out.
Nevermind if you've got a really crappy bank that charges you a fee to have a debit card or to use ATM internationally or to have an open checking account or whatever else they like to charge for. Money transfers between transatlantic banks aren't really cheaper. It ends up being some sort of alimony to the bank. It ends up being cheaper to have someone on a joint account take out money, exchange it and mail it, than to pay the exorbitant fees (not safer or faster, though).
I don't really see those fees going away any time soon, since they're stacking more on (like I said, percentage of international withdrawal is new).
UltimaGecko on
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The worst fee I ever dealt with:
M&T took over the bank I was using while in college a few years ago. Apparently, if you have beena customer for under a year and have less than 1000 in the account, your are limited to a certain number of checks per month, that you can process. It was 10 checks and if you wnt over that amount they smacked you with a $50 fee.
In one month (the last month i was with them) I went 2 checks over the limit, incurred a $100 fee, which they took out of my checking, which put it in the negative by like 20 bucks. I was then charged for overdraft. I didnt know about these fees till the end of the month on my statement and had 2 debits on my card, each under 20 bucks. In all: 4 overdraft fees of 30 bucks, 2 $50 fees for processing too many checks in one month, $25 fee per day my acount was in the negative (was about a week before all the charges caught up on my account, fees started with the first check). Total was about $400 in the red.
Good Game.
wawkin on
Talkin to the robbery expert.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
they send collection agencies for amounts under $1000?
especially if the actualy overdrafted amount that the bank actually lost is often not even half that of the total amount owed?
I had a community college send a collection agency after me for 250 dollars.
I had taken a semester of Japanese there, and when registering, despite the fact that I told them my current address (my college in Kansas) and permanent address (my house in Dallas) they gave me in-state Kansas tuition. Sweet, I figured. You live in a Kansas for a year and they give you in-state. Saved me a bunch on that class. Well, I pay my tuition up front, and take my class. Sometime around the end of November, beginning of December, about 5 months after registering and paying my tuition, with about 2 weeks left in class, I get a bill from the college asking for another 250$. I call them up, and ask what's going on, and they say it was because I wasn't paid in full. Apparently, sometime around October, they'd gone and checked over all the information that I gave them in July and realized that I was out of state. I was unable to convince them that since I had told them in all honesty upfront that my permanent residence was in Dallas and they still have me in-state tuition for 4 months that I didn't owe them anything. They wouldn't back down and sent a collection agency after me because I didn't pay. Couldn't pay in fact. I didn't have enough money because the in-state tuition was the only reason I could afford that class. My parents ended up having to pay because with their address listed the collection agency was going after them too, it was going to mess up their credit.
The solution isn't to try to regulate fees; the solution is to regulate how they're allowed to advertise their prices. This "$49.99 a month" then having $20 thrown on top of that in fees is fucking ridiculous. Their should be a law that your final bill isn't allowed to be more than what they advertise plus a la carte services.
You said what I came here to say.
Fine, but then you have companies like Comcast who are very clearly advertising that they're going to start charging $3.95 to talk to a CSR -- it goes into effect March 11th, I know this because I've had to hear the message every time I've called for the past few months or so -- but billing for providing customer service seems pretty fucking retarded to me. And then when you have this company essentially using government granted monopolies with the cable lines and such, what do you do?
I mean I'm thinking the equivalent is if the DMV started charging an extra $5 every time you went into a branch to pay a fee as opposed to just dealing with it online or over the phone. It's just ridiculous.
But how do you deal with it? Writing a law which says "you can only charge fee [x]" has got to be legislatively impossible, but at the same time I'm really not holding my breath for the "free market" to correct itself on this bullshit.
So legislating fair advertising in pricing is one thing, but when de facto monopolies are just being idiotic, what recourse does the consumer really have?
they send collection agencies for amounts under $1000?
especially if the actualy overdrafted amount that the bank actually lost is often not even half that of the total amount owed?
At the very least they'll put a flag on your credit report and you'll have a very hard time getting anyone to loan you money until you pay it off.
Even if it's not on your credit report, doesn't mean you're in the clear. My credit report is clean (and my "score" decently high), yet generally when I'd go to open a bank account I'd get rejected. Apparently there's a separate company called ChexSystems (or the like) that does nothing but track and collect on overdrafted bank accounts. It generally won't show up if you're buying a car, or applying for a credit card, or those kinds of things...just when you go to open a bank account.
And just about every bank nowadays uses them.
Well, I pay my tuition up front, and take my class. Sometime around the end of November, beginning of December, about 5 months after registering and paying my tuition, with about 2 weeks left in class, I get a bill from the college asking for another 250$. I call them up, and ask what's going on, and they say it was because I wasn't paid in full. Apparently, sometime around October, they'd gone and checked over all the information that I gave them in July and realized that I was out of state. I was unable to convince them that since I had told them in all honesty upfront that my permanent residence was in Dallas and they still have me in-state tuition for 4 months that I didn't owe them anything.
I know the feeling. I got smacked with a $1500 outstanding balance about 2/3 into a semester once. Apparently my financial aid eligibility had changed or something, even though I had listed everything accurately on my FAFSA, so they took back one of my loans. In theory, I had the money to pay the extra (that's why I took it)...in practice, I had already spent whatever extra money I supposedly had.
Oh, then I get hit with a late fee too because I didn't pay this grand or so within a few days. They'll work out a payment plan if you prefer, but of course there's a fee for that...which is the same as the late fee.
Fine, but then you have companies like Comcast who are very clearly advertising that they're going to start charging $3.95 to talk to a CSR -- it goes into effect March 11th, I know this because I've had to hear the message every time I've called for the past few months or so -- but billing for providing customer service seems pretty fucking retarded to me. And then when you have this company essentially using government granted monopolies with the cable lines and such, what do you do?
Eh. It's not exactly stellar customer service, but I guess for some reason I don't find it outrageous. There are a half-dozen other (free) ways to pay your bill. They've invested in automated systems, and yet you've got people who simply refuse to use them because they'd prefer to talk to a person. Well, people cost money, and I don't see why the additional cost of phone operators for bill payment (when they already have an automated system that can handle all their customers) should be forwarded on to everybody. Let the people who insist on personal service pay for it.
Of course, I only support this idea if it's only for issues that could have been resolved by the automated systems (which my bank does)...which would have to be a pretty limited subset of issues (like a simple bill payment). If I've got a problem with my bill that I actually need to talk to a person to fix, I shouldn't be paying.
One of the major problems in this country is that for credit and such there's a para-government system with no checks and balances or review process that is run on a guilty-until-proven-innocent basis.
I'm pretty sure some of this stuff is pretty much completely illegal. (For the college stuff, if you agree to pay a certain amount at the start of the semester and no one notifies you of a change before the start of classes, that for all intents and purposes constitutes a contract. It is their responsibility to notify you prior to your accepting enrollment and attending classes of any appropriate fees. They can't just decide that you owe something after the fact if you haven't agreed to it.)
The problem is the only real legal recourse anyone has is to hire a lawyer and sue a company. And it's completely impractical to sue someone for 200 dollars, so essentially there is no legal recourse for the consumer.
For the corporation/producer, however, they can essentially blackball someone and institute their own punishments. Basically anyone (well any corporate entity) can just report any outstanding debt to a credit reporting agency. No one at these places actually bothers to check what the situation is, whether you were in the right or in the wrong, what the circumstances are. Some guy at a cubicle can basically decide that you owe money, and you have no real recourse for the most part, because if you refuse to pay you get blacklisted, and it's cheaper to pay danegeld than hire a lawyer to fight it.
I'm pretty sure some of this stuff is pretty much completely illegal. (For the college stuff, if you agree to pay a certain amount at the start of the semester and no one notifies you of a change before the start of classes, that for all intents and purposes constitutes a contract. It is their responsibility to notify you prior to your accepting enrollment and attending classes of any appropriate fees. They can't just decide that you owe something after the fact if you haven't agreed to it.)
Unless, of course, there is language in any of the paperwork you signed (or signed and acknowledgment that you read) in any size print stating that things like residency status and financial aid can be re-evaluated mid-semester. Which I'd not be surprised in the least to find that there is.
And in general, it seems like this most often happens to people that knew they didn't (or at least probably shouldn't) qualify for whatever is being taken away (residency, financial aid, etc.) but applied anyway and accepted it when offered. The guy in this thread was surprised that they extended residency (as it was given despite listing an out-of-state permanent address), but then equally surprised when it was taken away? I had an assload of other funding coming to me for school, but figured I filled out my FAFSA correctly and thus the financial aid from the school was mine...I mean, when I sat down I realized I hadn't really needed the money and had spent a sizeable chunk of it on shit like an Xbox and eating out.
It still sucks of course, and there honestly should be some kind of drop-dead date for such adjustments unless a form was filled out incorrectly (waiting until somebody is two weeks from completing a class, and thus is already invested in it, is bullshit), but the idea itself isn't necessarily outrageous.
The problem is the only real legal recourse anyone has is to hire a lawyer and sue a company. And it's completely impractical to sue someone for 200 dollars, so essentially there is no legal recourse for the consumer.
Pretty much.
For the corporation/producer, however, they can essentially blackball someone and institute their own punishments. Basically anyone (well any corporate entity) can just report any outstanding debt to a credit reporting agency. No one at these places actually bothers to check what the situation is, whether you were in the right or in the wrong, what the circumstances are. Some guy at a cubicle can basically decide that you owe money, and you have no real recourse for the most part, because if you refuse to pay you get blacklisted, and it's cheaper to pay danegeld than hire a lawyer to fight it.
Actually, for contesting something on your credit report you don't really need a lawyer. I'm pretty sure if you contest an item, then the company that put it there really does have to provide documentation, and the credit agency really does look into whether the charge is legit. I mean, it may become necessary to lawyer up at some point if they actually have supporting documentation, but it's not like they can really just claim that you owe them money out of thin air.
they send collection agencies for amounts under $1000?
especially if the actualy overdrafted amount that the bank actually lost is often not even half that of the total amount owed?
Yes.
I was hounded by a $12.50 Columbia House CD bill for a couple of years because their clerk "forgot" to process my cancellation (they admitted to this) and I told them I wasn't paying them jack shit.
They had to have spent more than $12.50 in resources hounding me for this. I was contacted by three credit collection agencies for this. It took me more than $12.50 in resources to clear it up.
they send collection agencies for amounts under $1000?
especially if the actualy overdrafted amount that the bank actually lost is often not even half that of the total amount owed?
Yes.
I was hounded by a $12.50 Columbia House CD bill for a couple of years because their clerk "forgot" to process my cancellation (they admitted to this) and I told them I wasn't paying them jack shit.
They had to have spent more than $12.50 in resources hounding me for this. I was contacted by three credit collection agencies for this. It took me more than $12.50 in resources to clear it up.
Sprint sent me bills for a $0.12 balance on my phone that I had hooked up in the barracks while I was in the Army. For like 8 months. But they didn't accept cash, and for some reason I couldn't justify writing a check and putting a 32 (or whatever it was then) cent stamp on an envelope for $0.12. Figured they'd just write it off eventually.
Nope.
Kept sending me bills, then eventually threatened to send me to collections.
For twelve fucking cents.
I shit you not.
EDIT: And I guarantee that printing and sending 8 monthly statements for $0.12 cost them like twenty times that. You'd think they would just have their computer automatically write off balances of less than like $0.50. I know that some companies actually do this.
EDIT: And I'm sure if I had called and talked to a person they'd have likely done just that. But I was young and foolish and it really didn't cross my mind.
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
edited February 2008
Yeah, I had a Reader's Digest subscription for a year way back. They sent me a book deal, I bought a couple, then stopped. A couple weeks later I canceled my subscription and moved. Unbeknown to be they sent another book with a $50 charge to my old address since I didn't update (I really REALLY want Reader's Digest to fuck off with their junk mail). A couple years later I got a call from a collections agent who tried to bully me into paying. Was pretty aggressive and sarcastic on the phone. Took about 10 minutes just to get him to give me a number for Reader's Digest I could call to find out what the charge was even for.
Called them, told them what happened and never heard about it again. So while Reader's Digest was cool, that collection's agent can kiss my ass.
As far as campus fees go, I am short 3 credits for graduation on the course I took four years ago. I have three more years before I can no longer get my diploma. I keep delaying it because I have to pay a full semester's worth of campus fees to take the one course. Basically the fees are more than the tuition for a three credit course. Fucking bullshit.
For bank overdraft fees, I have yet to overdraft my account, but it should be illegal to charge a fee that is larger than the amount overdrafted - either that or illegal to charge an overdraft fee more than once a day.
Collection agencies prey on the shame and fear of bad credit to bully you into paying what they want. They deal with such a different range of people everyday, and frankly dont give a shit about whatever circumstances came to be that you ended up owing this money so they can be complete dickwads to everyone.
If it hasn't been mentioned yet, college needs to be brought up in this thread.
Observe a select portion of my bill:
snip
Grand total: $1280.44 in fees for one semester.
Tuition is $4000 a semester. Doing the math, my bill increased 32% because of just the standard fees.
Yeah, I already brought this up. But I forgot a fantastic one. I forget exactly what they called it that year, but it was just something like "Supplemental Fee." I went to the business office and asked precisely what the fuck that fee was for (because it hadn't been on my previous bills).
Basically it was the university raising tuition mid-year (this was on my spring bill). So rather than raise the actual tuition, it was done as a fee. Which, again, might seem like the easy way...until you start thinking about all the various scholarships or forms of aid that don't include fees. I asked if my financial aid would be re-calculated to account for this increase in tuition. They said it wasn't a significant enough increase to warrant that...mind you, it was like a 15% increase for the semester (so 7.5% for the year).
Well, I've discovered a wonderful, print your own money scheme for Councils in the UK. The Enforcement Officer can write you a fine of £70 (reduced to £50 if you pay in 2 weeks) for not taking your refuse bin back in to your property, even though all you are doing is copying what your neighbours do. When you object, the Enforcement Officer says "I issued a Notice on 21st Jan 2007 telling you not to do that" ... BUT we didn't buy the house til 15th May! "Tough, pay it or we will take you to court and sue you for fly tipping which has an automatic fine of £2,500. You will lose and have to pay our court costs. There is no appeal procedure."
LewieP paid (his bin, his uni house)
And another, while I'm in rant mode. My parents took out a £18,000 loan to buy a static caravan (mobile home) 3 years ago (I didn't know about the size of the loan). They didn't take out life insurance as it cost too much (they're old), and the bank secured the loan on their house (they didn't understand what that meant). They pay £300+ per month back to the bank, and after 3 years, now ONLY owe £14,000. Fascist bankers preying on old people's gullibility - the bank manager said "Oh, that's OK" when they declined the insurance, " you own your own house, don't you?". My parents foolishly believed that the manager would look after them if they couldn't pay the loan. He will, by taking their home off them. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Kids move out, parents move in ...
LewieP's Mummy on
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Also, I love the college I went to. I really do. It has great students, great faculty and staff, and the administration is pretty much all around great. Except for the financial aid department. Fuck them.
In high school I was a National Merit Finalist which automatically qualified me for the highest academic scholarship my college offered (which still isn't terribly great. Unless you're an international student or child of faculty/staff, the college doesn't provide much by way of scholarship. Gotta go outside.) However, someone in the aid office screwed up and gave me the one below that. Which was a difference of like 1000 or 1500 per year or something like that. I didn't know this my first semester, because my mom had handled all my financial stuff, but my second semester when my data sheet came to me, I noticed that the scholarship listed wasn't the one I was promised. I got it checked into, and sure enough, they had given me the wrong one. Apparently they'd looked at my highschool GPA, but ignored my test scores and National Merit status. So they changed my scholarship. But, we couldn't convince them to apply the difference from the previous semester. Assholes.
The solution isn't to try to regulate fees; the solution is to regulate how they're allowed to advertise their prices. This "$49.99 a month" then having $20 thrown on top of that in fees is fucking ridiculous. Their should be a law that your final bill isn't allowed to be more than what they advertise plus a la carte services.
I'd also agree that that's about all that can be done. People should exercise a degree of responsibility when using a service, and find out what it will really cost, but then you have companies advertising that their product will cost X, when in reality there's that bullshit service and/or connection fee, 911 fee, etc. etc. tacked-on.
Really annoys me the most with airlines, because airfare has a different tax scheme than regular services, and so many airports these days have their own fees tacked on. When you see airfare listed as $169 each way, it's really going to cost you 50% more than that. Thing is, they know that a flight between Toronto and St. John's is going to (gasp) use the airports in Toronto and St. John's - but they don't include the airport usage fees (just one of the weird hidden costs) until later, when they should really be built into the upfront cost.
Would not really be hard to implement either - it's just a question of what the reasonable person would expect when told that a service costs "$49.99" a month.
. . . but then you have companies like Comcast who are very clearly advertising that they're going to start charging $3.95 to talk to a CSR -- it goes into effect March 11th, I know this because I've had to hear the message every time I've called for the past few months or so -- but billing for providing customer service seems pretty fucking retarded to me. And then when you have this company essentially using government granted monopolies with the cable lines and such, what do you do?
For any other industry, I'd say too bad - and hope that such a stupid policy costs them customers.
However, like you said, this is phone company with a quasi-monopoly because the government allows it to be one. Getting the license from the government to operate should be contingent on agreeing to provide a certain level of service - such as not charging to speak to a representative.
I signed up for a credit card through Credit One Bank. It's only because I have bad credit, the fees and rates are ridiculous. I was willing to pay the signup/yearly fees, just to help build some credit. To my horror, I find out that it costs me $7.95 to pay my fucking bill unless I do it by personal check in the mail. If I pay online or by phone, they charge me $8 for the service. What the motherfuck?
I signed up for a credit card through Credit One Bank. It's only because I have bad credit, the fees and rates are ridiculous. I was willing to pay the signup/yearly fees, just to help build some credit. To my horror, I find out that it costs me $7.95 to pay my fucking bill unless I do it by personal check in the mail. If I pay online or by phone, they charge me $8 for the service. What the motherfuck?
So they want you to use the method that is the most inconvenient for them, as well as you? That makes absolutely no sense.
I signed up for a credit card through Credit One Bank. It's only because I have bad credit, the fees and rates are ridiculous. I was willing to pay the signup/yearly fees, just to help build some credit. To my horror, I find out that it costs me $7.95 to pay my fucking bill unless I do it by personal check in the mail. If I pay online or by phone, they charge me $8 for the service. What the motherfuck?
So they want you to use the method that is the most inconvenient for them, as well as you? That makes absolutely no sense.
Yeah, it doesn't really make much sense to me either, but most small credit card companies in America (like store credit cards and such) charge a "convenience" fee to pay by methods other than mail.
I signed up for a credit card through Credit One Bank. It's only because I have bad credit, the fees and rates are ridiculous. I was willing to pay the signup/yearly fees, just to help build some credit. To my horror, I find out that it costs me $7.95 to pay my fucking bill unless I do it by personal check in the mail. If I pay online or by phone, they charge me $8 for the service. What the motherfuck?
So they want you to use the method that is the most inconvenient for them, as well as you? That makes absolutely no sense.
Yeah, it doesn't really make much sense to me either, but most small credit card companies in America (like store credit cards and such) charge a "convenience" fee to pay by methods other than mail.
Initially it was to offset the costs of adding those payment features/pay the actual processing companies. Now it's just an established fee. My Electric company charges me $5 to pay by automated phone thingy. Website? Free. Call a rep? Free. Mail? Free. Wth.
Well, I've discovered a wonderful, print your own money scheme for Councils in the UK. The Enforcement Officer can write you a fine of £70 (reduced to £50 if you pay in 2 weeks) for not taking your refuse bin back in to your property, even though all you are doing is copying what your neighbours do. When you object, the Enforcement Officer says "I issued a Notice on 21st Jan 2007 telling you not to do that" ... BUT we didn't buy the house til 15th May! "Tough, pay it or we will take you to court and sue you for fly tipping which has an automatic fine of £2,500. You will lose and have to pay our court costs. There is no appeal procedure."
LewieP paid (his bin, his uni house)
Just pull your bin back in to your drive, you lazy bum! I hate having to play dodge-bin when I'm walking along narrow pavements. I'm glad councils are cracking down on this now, especially in student areas.
In August 2006 I signed a cell phone contract with Rogers for a plan that was advertised in big block letters as being $30 a month. After fees and taxes it came to something like $40 a month, which was bullshit.
And for some reason I've been paying over $50 a month since August 2007, and they claim that this is because my rate plan "doesn't exist anymore" so I no longer qualify for the monthly discount that was bringing it down to $40. So I have to call them every month, and talk for half an hour or more with some agent that has no idea what's going on, to get $8 taken off my bill.
And what can I do about it? Nothing! Because if I cancel my service they'll charge me $400! And in August when the contract runs out, I'll be forced to continue doing business with them because the only other GSM carrier in my region is owned by Rogers!
...so if your rate plan "doesn't exist anymore", why is that contract valid, again?
Yeah, sounds like you have a pretty good case of breach of contract since you signed on the dotted line for a specific plan. They can't just change plans on you during a contracted term.
Girlfriend knew she was going to be overdrafted, so she put money into her account on a Sunday online to avoid this. Online, as she was told by a CSR, meant that the money would instantly be there, just wouldn't be posted. The CSR even said the money she'd just put in was there. As an arbitrary number, let's say she had 20 in there, put 50 in, and then spent 40. This isn't far from the truth, it was a small number like this. So, if she HADN'T put the money in, she would definitely have been overdrawn 20 dollars.
So she goes and spends the money, but the 40 was spent about 5 different ways. And at Compass Bank, the overdraft fee is $37, for each and every transaction that goes over. And no, they don't just take the extra money out of your credit card or savings account if you have one and say "it's ok, try not to do it again," they just take the money from your checking. And then ream you some more by charging you 5-7 dollars every day it sits in the bank, not being fixed.
So on Thursday she checks her account and she's completely in the red, by about 2-300 dollars. She panics, calls customer service, who tell her that hey, that CSR she talked to the other day was wrong-o, the money didn't even touch her account until Tuesday, and she still has to pay. Her entire savings account later (400 dollars worth), she's finally in the black, crying her eyes out on my bed, and the next day Wachovia had a new customer.
I had something very similar happen with BofA, where they go out of their way to stress that when you deposit a check, they credit you $100 of it for immediate withdrawal. I deposit a check, bring my alleged available balance to $150, buy $100 worth of groceries, then get dinged with an overdraft fee. When I called to bitch, and remind them that going be their own stated policies I should not have been overdrawn, I'm basically informed that they're a bunch of liars and that I can stuff it. I didn't bother changing banks because they would all do pretty much the same.
Also, I just got Dish Network hooked up, and found out that the quoted price is only valid if I have a the box attached to a phone line 24/7. If I don't, it costs an extra $5/mo. That's pretty much the most random fee ever.
ElJeffe on
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Just pull your bin back in to your drive, you lazy bum! I hate having to play dodge-bin when I'm walking along narrow pavements. I'm glad councils are cracking down on this now, especially in student areas.
It was in the locked, gated alleyway at the side of the house, not on the pavement or road. The only people who use the alleyway are the residents, no-one else can walk through it, it only leads to the back of the houses.
LewieP's Mummy on
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I had something very similar happen with BofA, where they go out of their way to stress that when you deposit a check, they credit you $100 of it for immediate withdrawal. I deposit a check, bring my alleged available balance to $150, buy $100 worth of groceries, then get dinged with an overdraft fee. When I called to bitch, and remind them that going be their own stated policies I should not have been overdrawn, I'm basically informed that they're a bunch of liars and that I can stuff it. I didn't bother changing banks because they would all do pretty much the same.
I had the same thing from BofA; I have like .50c in my account, but a check went in that morning. Before the check cleared, some tip I left at a restaurant over a week beforehand finally goes through. The bank told me to go fuck myself.
Also, why does it take some businesses so long to process their receipts? Laziness?
...so if your rate plan "doesn't exist anymore", why is that contract valid, again?
Yeah, sounds like you have a pretty good case of breach of contract since you signed on the dotted line for a specific plan. They can't just change plans on you during a contracted term.
They said that they underwent some kind of IT "overhaul" and during that time all the old rate plans that aren't being offered anymore were flushed out of the system. So every month my bill comes and I contact them and spend 45 minutes dealing with customer service reps who eventually apply a credit to my bill that month and tell me that it "should" be credited automatically from now on. Which it never is.
I just can't be arsed to deal with it and they are probably allowed to do whatever they want because they are a monopoly.
...so if your rate plan "doesn't exist anymore", why is that contract valid, again?
Yeah, sounds like you have a pretty good case of breach of contract since you signed on the dotted line for a specific plan. They can't just change plans on you during a contracted term.
They said that they underwent some kind of IT "overhaul" and during that time all the old rate plans that aren't being offered anymore were flushed out of the system. So every month my bill comes and I contact them and spend 45 minutes dealing with customer service reps who eventually apply a credit to my bill that month and tell me that it "should" be credited automatically from now on. Which it never is.
I just can't be arsed to deal with it and they are probably allowed to do whatever they want because they are a monopoly.
Yeah, and the real issue is that the best you cold hope for is to get the contract voided (which you likely could, given the situation), which doesn't help you because presumably you still want service and would end up having to just pay whatever they're charging now anyway.
I signed up for a credit card through Credit One Bank. It's only because I have bad credit, the fees and rates are ridiculous. I was willing to pay the signup/yearly fees, just to help build some credit. To my horror, I find out that it costs me $7.95 to pay my fucking bill unless I do it by personal check in the mail. If I pay online or by phone, they charge me $8 for the service. What the motherfuck?
So they want you to use the method that is the most inconvenient for them, as well as you? That makes absolutely no sense.
Yeah, it doesn't really make much sense to me either, but most small credit card companies in America (like store credit cards and such) charge a "convenience" fee to pay by methods other than mail.
I'll get all cynical for a moment and suggest that, at least with credit cards, they may figure that encouraging you to pay by mail increased the chance that you'll wind up mailing late or forgetting and thus make them more in late fees.
I was at a strip club in Soho pre Christmas for a stag night and fuck, if you want to see a place with all sorts of surprise charges that is the place for it. If we had purchased the host a drink and got a girl to talk to us that would have cost us 200 pounds - let alone actually tipping the stripper, paying the door charge or buying drinks. Happily we were all just sober enough to get burnt
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Yuppers. I got to deal with a colleciton agency for the overdraft fees I had that resulted from a mass of bounced checks. Check for car repairs that posted on the account+me missing said check being taken off due to the repair shop failing to endorse the check+multiple checks being written in the meantime+same repair check then posting two weeks later along with 14 checks ranging from $5-$15+me walking away from the bank because they refused to work with me on the $35 overdraft fees totaling $490=colleciton agency.
A decent sized fee for me being stupid enough to trust my online banking and not keep a proper ledger? Yeah, I can see that. $500 for trusting my banks online banking though? That kind of struck me as extreme.
What really pissed me off though is when I talked to the repair shop and found out what happened the bank refused to admit that the check had ever shown online or even acknowledge it had tried to clear previously. At that point I cancelled my direct deposit with my employer, deposited $112 to cover the checks and walked away. I found out a few months later they had sold the account to a collection agency when I recieved one of those pleasant letters.
I actually had a friend try and convince me to hire a lawyer to fight it but I figured I probably wouldn't have a leg to stand on and that a lawyer would cost far more than just paying off the debt.
What you absolutely do NOT do is leave a balance and walk a way from it, you WILL hear from it again.
an ATM fee (...some banks have 'use our brand ATMs without fees...well you know what, there's no First Federal or Associated or 83rd Federal or whatever in Europe),
a currency exchange 'fee' (there's a percentage added to the currency exchange rates you'll get on sites like x-rates.com so banks can make money on those transactions),
and then they take another percentage of the money you're taking out.
Nevermind if you've got a really crappy bank that charges you a fee to have a debit card or to use ATM internationally or to have an open checking account or whatever else they like to charge for. Money transfers between transatlantic banks aren't really cheaper. It ends up being some sort of alimony to the bank. It ends up being cheaper to have someone on a joint account take out money, exchange it and mail it, than to pay the exorbitant fees (not safer or faster, though).
I don't really see those fees going away any time soon, since they're stacking more on (like I said, percentage of international withdrawal is new).
M&T took over the bank I was using while in college a few years ago. Apparently, if you have beena customer for under a year and have less than 1000 in the account, your are limited to a certain number of checks per month, that you can process. It was 10 checks and if you wnt over that amount they smacked you with a $50 fee.
In one month (the last month i was with them) I went 2 checks over the limit, incurred a $100 fee, which they took out of my checking, which put it in the negative by like 20 bucks. I was then charged for overdraft. I didnt know about these fees till the end of the month on my statement and had 2 debits on my card, each under 20 bucks. In all: 4 overdraft fees of 30 bucks, 2 $50 fees for processing too many checks in one month, $25 fee per day my acount was in the negative (was about a week before all the charges caught up on my account, fees started with the first check). Total was about $400 in the red.
Good Game.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
I had a community college send a collection agency after me for 250 dollars.
I had taken a semester of Japanese there, and when registering, despite the fact that I told them my current address (my college in Kansas) and permanent address (my house in Dallas) they gave me in-state Kansas tuition. Sweet, I figured. You live in a Kansas for a year and they give you in-state. Saved me a bunch on that class. Well, I pay my tuition up front, and take my class. Sometime around the end of November, beginning of December, about 5 months after registering and paying my tuition, with about 2 weeks left in class, I get a bill from the college asking for another 250$. I call them up, and ask what's going on, and they say it was because I wasn't paid in full. Apparently, sometime around October, they'd gone and checked over all the information that I gave them in July and realized that I was out of state. I was unable to convince them that since I had told them in all honesty upfront that my permanent residence was in Dallas and they still have me in-state tuition for 4 months that I didn't owe them anything. They wouldn't back down and sent a collection agency after me because I didn't pay. Couldn't pay in fact. I didn't have enough money because the in-state tuition was the only reason I could afford that class. My parents ended up having to pay because with their address listed the collection agency was going after them too, it was going to mess up their credit.
I mean I'm thinking the equivalent is if the DMV started charging an extra $5 every time you went into a branch to pay a fee as opposed to just dealing with it online or over the phone. It's just ridiculous.
But how do you deal with it? Writing a law which says "you can only charge fee [x]" has got to be legislatively impossible, but at the same time I'm really not holding my breath for the "free market" to correct itself on this bullshit.
So legislating fair advertising in pricing is one thing, but when de facto monopolies are just being idiotic, what recourse does the consumer really have?
Even if it's not on your credit report, doesn't mean you're in the clear. My credit report is clean (and my "score" decently high), yet generally when I'd go to open a bank account I'd get rejected. Apparently there's a separate company called ChexSystems (or the like) that does nothing but track and collect on overdrafted bank accounts. It generally won't show up if you're buying a car, or applying for a credit card, or those kinds of things...just when you go to open a bank account.
And just about every bank nowadays uses them.
I know the feeling. I got smacked with a $1500 outstanding balance about 2/3 into a semester once. Apparently my financial aid eligibility had changed or something, even though I had listed everything accurately on my FAFSA, so they took back one of my loans. In theory, I had the money to pay the extra (that's why I took it)...in practice, I had already spent whatever extra money I supposedly had.
Oh, then I get hit with a late fee too because I didn't pay this grand or so within a few days. They'll work out a payment plan if you prefer, but of course there's a fee for that...which is the same as the late fee.
Eh. It's not exactly stellar customer service, but I guess for some reason I don't find it outrageous. There are a half-dozen other (free) ways to pay your bill. They've invested in automated systems, and yet you've got people who simply refuse to use them because they'd prefer to talk to a person. Well, people cost money, and I don't see why the additional cost of phone operators for bill payment (when they already have an automated system that can handle all their customers) should be forwarded on to everybody. Let the people who insist on personal service pay for it.
Of course, I only support this idea if it's only for issues that could have been resolved by the automated systems (which my bank does)...which would have to be a pretty limited subset of issues (like a simple bill payment). If I've got a problem with my bill that I actually need to talk to a person to fix, I shouldn't be paying.
I'm pretty sure some of this stuff is pretty much completely illegal. (For the college stuff, if you agree to pay a certain amount at the start of the semester and no one notifies you of a change before the start of classes, that for all intents and purposes constitutes a contract. It is their responsibility to notify you prior to your accepting enrollment and attending classes of any appropriate fees. They can't just decide that you owe something after the fact if you haven't agreed to it.)
The problem is the only real legal recourse anyone has is to hire a lawyer and sue a company. And it's completely impractical to sue someone for 200 dollars, so essentially there is no legal recourse for the consumer.
For the corporation/producer, however, they can essentially blackball someone and institute their own punishments. Basically anyone (well any corporate entity) can just report any outstanding debt to a credit reporting agency. No one at these places actually bothers to check what the situation is, whether you were in the right or in the wrong, what the circumstances are. Some guy at a cubicle can basically decide that you owe money, and you have no real recourse for the most part, because if you refuse to pay you get blacklisted, and it's cheaper to pay danegeld than hire a lawyer to fight it.
I'm guessing yes? ;-)
Unless, of course, there is language in any of the paperwork you signed (or signed and acknowledgment that you read) in any size print stating that things like residency status and financial aid can be re-evaluated mid-semester. Which I'd not be surprised in the least to find that there is.
And in general, it seems like this most often happens to people that knew they didn't (or at least probably shouldn't) qualify for whatever is being taken away (residency, financial aid, etc.) but applied anyway and accepted it when offered. The guy in this thread was surprised that they extended residency (as it was given despite listing an out-of-state permanent address), but then equally surprised when it was taken away? I had an assload of other funding coming to me for school, but figured I filled out my FAFSA correctly and thus the financial aid from the school was mine...I mean, when I sat down I realized I hadn't really needed the money and had spent a sizeable chunk of it on shit like an Xbox and eating out.
It still sucks of course, and there honestly should be some kind of drop-dead date for such adjustments unless a form was filled out incorrectly (waiting until somebody is two weeks from completing a class, and thus is already invested in it, is bullshit), but the idea itself isn't necessarily outrageous.
Pretty much.
Actually, for contesting something on your credit report you don't really need a lawyer. I'm pretty sure if you contest an item, then the company that put it there really does have to provide documentation, and the credit agency really does look into whether the charge is legit. I mean, it may become necessary to lawyer up at some point if they actually have supporting documentation, but it's not like they can really just claim that you owe them money out of thin air.
I was hounded by a $12.50 Columbia House CD bill for a couple of years because their clerk "forgot" to process my cancellation (they admitted to this) and I told them I wasn't paying them jack shit.
They had to have spent more than $12.50 in resources hounding me for this. I was contacted by three credit collection agencies for this. It took me more than $12.50 in resources to clear it up.
Sprint sent me bills for a $0.12 balance on my phone that I had hooked up in the barracks while I was in the Army. For like 8 months. But they didn't accept cash, and for some reason I couldn't justify writing a check and putting a 32 (or whatever it was then) cent stamp on an envelope for $0.12. Figured they'd just write it off eventually.
Nope.
Kept sending me bills, then eventually threatened to send me to collections.
For twelve fucking cents.
I shit you not.
EDIT: And I guarantee that printing and sending 8 monthly statements for $0.12 cost them like twenty times that. You'd think they would just have their computer automatically write off balances of less than like $0.50. I know that some companies actually do this.
EDIT: And I'm sure if I had called and talked to a person they'd have likely done just that. But I was young and foolish and it really didn't cross my mind.
Observe a select portion of my bill:
Grand total: $1280.44 in fees for one semester.
Tuition is $4000 a semester. Doing the math, my bill increased 32% because of just the standard fees.
Called them, told them what happened and never heard about it again. So while Reader's Digest was cool, that collection's agent can kiss my ass.
As far as campus fees go, I am short 3 credits for graduation on the course I took four years ago. I have three more years before I can no longer get my diploma. I keep delaying it because I have to pay a full semester's worth of campus fees to take the one course. Basically the fees are more than the tuition for a three credit course. Fucking bullshit.
For bank overdraft fees, I have yet to overdraft my account, but it should be illegal to charge a fee that is larger than the amount overdrafted - either that or illegal to charge an overdraft fee more than once a day.
And it pisses me right off.
Yeah, I already brought this up. But I forgot a fantastic one. I forget exactly what they called it that year, but it was just something like "Supplemental Fee." I went to the business office and asked precisely what the fuck that fee was for (because it hadn't been on my previous bills).
Basically it was the university raising tuition mid-year (this was on my spring bill). So rather than raise the actual tuition, it was done as a fee. Which, again, might seem like the easy way...until you start thinking about all the various scholarships or forms of aid that don't include fees. I asked if my financial aid would be re-calculated to account for this increase in tuition. They said it wasn't a significant enough increase to warrant that...mind you, it was like a 15% increase for the semester (so 7.5% for the year).
I say again: fuckers.
LewieP paid (his bin, his uni house)
And another, while I'm in rant mode. My parents took out a £18,000 loan to buy a static caravan (mobile home) 3 years ago (I didn't know about the size of the loan). They didn't take out life insurance as it cost too much (they're old), and the bank secured the loan on their house (they didn't understand what that meant). They pay £300+ per month back to the bank, and after 3 years, now ONLY owe £14,000. Fascist bankers preying on old people's gullibility - the bank manager said "Oh, that's OK" when they declined the insurance, " you own your own house, don't you?". My parents foolishly believed that the manager would look after them if they couldn't pay the loan. He will, by taking their home off them. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Kids move out, parents move in ...
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
Car gets a recall statement after I buy it for part X. But hey, replacement is free, just bring it back to the dealer and they'll swap out the part.
Net result? $70 fee for labor. The PART is free, getting them to swap it out isn't.
In high school I was a National Merit Finalist which automatically qualified me for the highest academic scholarship my college offered (which still isn't terribly great. Unless you're an international student or child of faculty/staff, the college doesn't provide much by way of scholarship. Gotta go outside.) However, someone in the aid office screwed up and gave me the one below that. Which was a difference of like 1000 or 1500 per year or something like that. I didn't know this my first semester, because my mom had handled all my financial stuff, but my second semester when my data sheet came to me, I noticed that the scholarship listed wasn't the one I was promised. I got it checked into, and sure enough, they had given me the wrong one. Apparently they'd looked at my highschool GPA, but ignored my test scores and National Merit status. So they changed my scholarship. But, we couldn't convince them to apply the difference from the previous semester. Assholes.
Really annoys me the most with airlines, because airfare has a different tax scheme than regular services, and so many airports these days have their own fees tacked on. When you see airfare listed as $169 each way, it's really going to cost you 50% more than that. Thing is, they know that a flight between Toronto and St. John's is going to (gasp) use the airports in Toronto and St. John's - but they don't include the airport usage fees (just one of the weird hidden costs) until later, when they should really be built into the upfront cost.
Would not really be hard to implement either - it's just a question of what the reasonable person would expect when told that a service costs "$49.99" a month. For any other industry, I'd say too bad - and hope that such a stupid policy costs them customers.
However, like you said, this is phone company with a quasi-monopoly because the government allows it to be one. Getting the license from the government to operate should be contingent on agreeing to provide a certain level of service - such as not charging to speak to a representative.
I signed up for a credit card through Credit One Bank. It's only because I have bad credit, the fees and rates are ridiculous. I was willing to pay the signup/yearly fees, just to help build some credit. To my horror, I find out that it costs me $7.95 to pay my fucking bill unless I do it by personal check in the mail. If I pay online or by phone, they charge me $8 for the service. What the motherfuck?
Yeah, it doesn't really make much sense to me either, but most small credit card companies in America (like store credit cards and such) charge a "convenience" fee to pay by methods other than mail.
Initially it was to offset the costs of adding those payment features/pay the actual processing companies. Now it's just an established fee. My Electric company charges me $5 to pay by automated phone thingy. Website? Free. Call a rep? Free. Mail? Free. Wth.
Just pull your bin back in to your drive, you lazy bum! I hate having to play dodge-bin when I'm walking along narrow pavements. I'm glad councils are cracking down on this now, especially in student areas.
And for some reason I've been paying over $50 a month since August 2007, and they claim that this is because my rate plan "doesn't exist anymore" so I no longer qualify for the monthly discount that was bringing it down to $40. So I have to call them every month, and talk for half an hour or more with some agent that has no idea what's going on, to get $8 taken off my bill.
And what can I do about it? Nothing! Because if I cancel my service they'll charge me $400! And in August when the contract runs out, I'll be forced to continue doing business with them because the only other GSM carrier in my region is owned by Rogers!
Yeah, sounds like you have a pretty good case of breach of contract since you signed on the dotted line for a specific plan. They can't just change plans on you during a contracted term.
I had something very similar happen with BofA, where they go out of their way to stress that when you deposit a check, they credit you $100 of it for immediate withdrawal. I deposit a check, bring my alleged available balance to $150, buy $100 worth of groceries, then get dinged with an overdraft fee. When I called to bitch, and remind them that going be their own stated policies I should not have been overdrawn, I'm basically informed that they're a bunch of liars and that I can stuff it. I didn't bother changing banks because they would all do pretty much the same.
Also, I just got Dish Network hooked up, and found out that the quoted price is only valid if I have a the box attached to a phone line 24/7. If I don't, it costs an extra $5/mo. That's pretty much the most random fee ever.
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
I had the same thing from BofA; I have like .50c in my account, but a check went in that morning. Before the check cleared, some tip I left at a restaurant over a week beforehand finally goes through. The bank told me to go fuck myself.
Also, why does it take some businesses so long to process their receipts? Laziness?
I just can't be arsed to deal with it and they are probably allowed to do whatever they want because they are a monopoly.
Yeah, and the real issue is that the best you cold hope for is to get the contract voided (which you likely could, given the situation), which doesn't help you because presumably you still want service and would end up having to just pay whatever they're charging now anyway.
I'll get all cynical for a moment and suggest that, at least with credit cards, they may figure that encouraging you to pay by mail increased the chance that you'll wind up mailing late or forgetting and thus make them more in late fees.