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I think I was just plagiarized(Update! She's in trouble..)

KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
edited March 2008 in Help / Advice Forum
Background: I'm taking an upper level art class this semester, which has assigments of us going to lectures and writing a summary on them to be posted in a discussion board for the professor to read and grade. This past week we attended one of these lectures, and I wrote my summary and posted it on friday (they're due by Saturday)
I found the lecture to be very boring and frustrating to listen to, so I was reading what other people had to say, just scanning theirs mainly for reaction to the speaker. Then I stumbled upon one that seem vaguely familiar..when I realized because it was mine. But not exactly word for word..but very close. Here's the postings in question:
On Thursday I attended what was an interesting talk regarding numinous space given by William Helm. Before I attended the presentation I made sure to around the Rubin Center to have an early preview of what would be discussed. Reading about numinous space, something I had never heard about, I began to gain an understanding about this concept. This concept, as further explained by Helm, encompasses the idea of spontaneous reaction through the work of architecture. He explained how this was not a new concept, but one that could be seen in history, by highlighting the Taos Pueblo Village. This village was build around the idea of creating a connection between spirit and place, with the buildings in the village lined up a certain way, so as they would be facing the mountains that oversaw them, as well as would be hit a certain way by the light of the sun. This way of building was not unique to the United States though, as Helm also made a point to show how this phenomenon was seen in Egypt and China, Both these countries have buildings that were designed so as to the room would look different at a certain time when the light hit it. Helm further expanded on the history of numinous space by explaining how Dr. Eugene D' Aquil developed this idea. He attributed religious awe and associated with it being generated by visual association and identified as religious. Helm makes a note though, to specify that his work is not seeking to bring about just religious awe, but instead to bring about pure awareness of one's surroundings and a closer tie to the environment.
In order to do this, Helm is working on a thesis project that involves the Chaparal Desert. He first started by setting up a hut. What I found very interesting about this small fact is how much trouble he went about setting up this hut, making sure it was harmonious with the environment and didn't disturb it. This shows his commitment to his idea of working architecture in the environment without disturbing it. From this hut he would study and observe the desert, cementing his ideas and coming up with plans for the casts that would be shown in the Rubin Center and acted as blueprints for what he hopes will become eventual buildings.
These four different buildings aim to capture the unique sight of the desert at certain times of the day. They are afterglow, mirage, skylight and alpenglow. Each building works with the environment, not against it (like most buildings) and benefits from it by capturing the light in a striking manner that will invoke the feelings of awe that Helm wishes for us.
I found this concept to be very interesting and different from what most architecture seems to represent. Usually architecture works agaisnt the environment, changing it, and not taking much consideration of it. When I often thing of architecture I also think of grand works of art, large buildings that evoke awe through their size and built. Yet Helm's designs attempt show us awe almost in a more humble manner, using the environment and building together to evoke this awe. It's a very interesting way of thinking in design, and I think I would prefer this method in many instances.
Finally, I must say I was disappointed by the actual presentation, specially when compared to the other two we have attended. Where as the other previos artist were engaging to listen to, and seemed relaxed in front of a crowd to an extent. Helm was dry and stiff, and read almost exclusively from the script, doing very little to engage the audience. Often it seemed as if he was just reading quote after quote without giving us the audience time to take it all in. He also seemed to forget that not everyone in attendance would be an art major, and did not take time to explain some concepts that initially went over my (and I believe others) heads. I believe this is important to note because he said himself he hopes to gain support in order to build these pieces. He must do a much better job presenting his ideas, because not everyone will be willing to pay close attention to gain the message if he's not engaging them.
In his lecture “Exploring a Spiritual Dimension of Architecture,” architect William Helm
began by displaying a photograph of a mobile home in the desert of Chaparral, New
Mexico which is located between Las Cruces and El Paso. It focused on ten acres of the
Chihuahuan desert. He began to explain if this is what our future hold for us? He also
explained that there are other means of conserving the earth and not just having these
huge architectures taking over our beautiful land. I began to gain an understanding
about this concept which was a concept of the Helm idea that as been around for many
years. This concept, as further explained by Helm, encompasses the idea of spontaneous
reaction through the work of architecture. He explained how this was not a new concept,
but one that could be seen in history, by highlighting the Taos Pueblo Village. This village
was build around the idea of creating a connection between spirit and place, with the
buildings in the village lined up a certain way, so as they would be facing the mountains
that oversaw them, as well as would be hit a certain way by the light of the sun. This way
of building was not unique to the United States though, as Helm also made a point to
show how this phenomenon was seen in Egypt and China, Both these countries have
buildings that were designed so as to the room would look different at a certain time
when the light hit it. Helm further expanded on the history of numinous space by
explaining how Dr. Eugene developed this idea. He attributed religious and associated
with it being generated by visual association and identified as religious. Helm makes a
note though, to specify that his work is not seeking to bring about just religious
knowledge, but instead to bring about pure awareness of one's surroundings and a closer
tie to the environment.
What I understood best was his project called the Hut. This project took place
in Chaparral New Mexico in 2006. He told us that in order to fully perform a project he
first studies the area to connect with the area before we could construct or add any
elements. With this project he pushed against traditional methods of understanding the
hut. He needed a way to get the message across to his clients. Total amount of days
spent in the hut were three. He also talked about a project in which he used casting
designed to produce afterglow, mirage, skylight, and alpenge low. This was the project
that I liked the most. I could have never imagined that a simple box could have
produced such a wonderful image. He also stressed that one can experience or enter the
numinous through a piece of artwork, through meditation, or even a film. You can feel
different things when experiencing the sublime. Witness the fact that the decline of
religious influence and transcend quintal sublime in the enlightenment was
counterbalanced by the rise of a secular immanent sublime.
Finally, I must say I was not impressed by the actual presentation, specially when
compared to the other two we have attended. Where as the other previous artist were
interesting to listen to, and seemed relaxed in front of a crowd, they were very talkative
and the seemed to have had more evidence to back up their beliefs and art. Mr. Helm
was very boring and read almost everything exclusively from the script. Often it seemed
as if he was just reading quote after quote without giving us the audience time to take it
all in. He also seemed to forget that not everyone in attendance would be an art major,
and did not take time to explain some concepts. He needs to work on his presentations
and his speech more, and he needs to get involved with the audience and use a
grammer that most people would understand. His opening should explain what he is
going to be presenting and then go into full detail. Overall I believe that this presentation
was not very good and needs a lot of work, I believe I would have learned more if it
would have been.

What do you guys think? The first and last paragraphs seem like red flags to me.
Should I email the professor? I got an A on the posting, and truthfully it took me a bit to write it out where I was happy with it. It annoys me that someone could get the same grade as I did without putting effort to it.
Or am I overreacting?

Kyougu on

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    FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Yeah, this guy pretty much plagiarized your entire post. He was smart about it and made it so that you actually have to read the post to figure it out (in my experience with these kind of assignments, most professors just scan it and grade based on a few key words and how long it is).

    Talk to your professor in person about this, it can definitely be a serious issue. I think it's mostly only severe enough that the professor would want to deal with it from within the classroom and not report him in a way that could get him expelled. Also, if it is discovered that you knew you were plagiarized but didn't say anything, you can be punished under the terms of most university honor codes.

    FirstComradeStalin on
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    TheRealBadgerTheRealBadger Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    If this was me I'd definitely speak up about it. Sometimes two postings of this type can look similar due simply to the fact that they are based on the same lecture, however the fact that the second post copies your subjective impressions as well as the actual subject matter is a pretty big red flag. I'd be well insulted if someone did that to me. Consider also (and I'm only guessing on how your grades are structured here) that you're in competition with your classmates. Only you should be entitled to the credit from your work.

    TheRealBadger on
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    AtomBombAtomBomb Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Well, at first I was going to say that you were imagining things, that they both just sounded like both writers went to the same event. This is the line that makes me think he at least read yours first:

    "Often it seemed as if he was just reading quote after quote without giving us the audience time to take it
    all in."

    You both have that exact phrase. It's also slightly unique, as I would have punctuated it differently even if I came up with exactly the same verbiage (wow, that sounds pretentious):

    "Often it seemed as if he was just reading quote after quote without giving us, the audience, time to take it all in."

    Anyway, that guys essay is uneven as shit. I would imagine that someone who read both would catch on. I can't say if I would point it out or not, but I think your assumptions are correct.

    AtomBomb on
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    LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Plagiarism is A Serious Business. You should really speak up about it. You could either be wrongly fingered at the copy-cat, or more likely, fingered as a willing accomplice to the copying. You want to be neither.

    Lewisham on
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    AtomBombAtomBomb Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Heh, that's a lot of responses. I was just thinking after I hit post that I bet you could find the parts of this persons essay that weren't lifted from yours in the other students essays. What a douche. Like it's that hard to make up your own shit. Did you actually see him at the talk?

    AtomBomb on
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    EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Talk to your prof about it. If the response is unimportant enough, he probably won't get in trouble. But it should be enough of a red flag that the guy gets a kick in the pants to say "hey, that's not cool" before he does it for something more important.

    Wait, now that I'm re-reading your post, these ARE your assignments. In that case, hell yes -- he essentially cheated off your test. What's worse, if your prof finds out before you tell him, and he spots the copying, he could assume that you two simply wrote it together and posted at different times so it looked less suspicious. Nip it in the bud.

    EggyToast on
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    sonicmagesonicmage Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    you should defiantly talk to you professor, plagiarism sucks and they should be able to get the grade for ripping you off.

    sonicmage on
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    LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    As a college professor, I recommend that you send him an e-mail and let him know. I can't speak for all professors (obviously), but I would want to know if someone in my class was cheating off of another student. Someone who turns in plagiarized work has no business being in college.

    LoveIsUnity on
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    WalterWalter Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Its already been said, but I'd like to stress that if the professor finds this before you report it to him, you could very well both be in a world of shit. Plus what the kid did was a jerk thing to do.

    Walter on
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    EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2008
    Im sure your professor will do something.

    EliteLamer on
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    locomotivemanlocomotiveman Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Do you know this dick on top of his copying your work or is it one of those classes where there are 1-500 people and you never really meet? I'm just fearing that perhaps the prof will think you worked together on a level thats a nono. Something similar happened to my roommate last year.

    locomotiveman on
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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Update!

    After reading that most of you guys agreed that the post did seemed to similar to mine, and realizing since it was spring break I wouldn't see the prof till next week, I emailed her. I just mentioned why I had been going through other people's posting and was just bringing this to her attention because I didn't want to get in trouble or someone get credit for my work (I get an A btw). I even mentioned I may had been overeacting, just in case.
    The proffesor responded already and said I wasn't, and she was going to take care of it.

    And just to answer the questions, I have no idea if this girl actually attended the lecture. It's a class over 100+ so I really only know the people I sit with. And I think Atombomb was right, the essay read to me like the parts she didn't get from me she probably just grabbed from other people. Oh, and in the class we only have 5 graded assignments, 3 of them assignments like these, so these are a pretty big deal to the professor. And they're easy A's too, which makes it all the sadder that she felt that the girl felt she had to plagiarize mine.

    Thanks for everyone's input.

    Kyougu on
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    That is pretty sad - most colleges deal with plagiarism severely no matter what the assignment was.

    KalTorak on
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    KalTorak wrote: »
    That is pretty sad - most colleges deal with plagiarism severely no matter what the assignment was.

    Usually it's an automatic F for the class - that's how it's been in my various classes, and the kid I caught plagiarizing in one of my fiction workshops didn't show up anymore after I told my teacher about it.

    I'm sure multiple instances could lead to the student being expelled from the school entirely.

    DarkPrimus on
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    MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    In my school plagiarism in a major paper would result in expulsion after a review of the case.

    Minor papers it was up to the teacher whether to press for expulsion, but it would be an automatic F for the course at the very least.

    MikeMan on
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    LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    KalTorak wrote: »
    That is pretty sad - most colleges deal with plagiarism severely no matter what the assignment was.

    You make it sound like it's a bad thing.

    There's zero excuse for it. Ever. If you don't want to be at university, then don't go. Don't fuck classmates over by trying to cheat your way through.

    If something bad happens, like you fall ill, you can always ask for an extension. If something extremely bad happens, the university will support you.

    People who steal others' work are either lazy or not cut out to be in the class. Either way, they have no place at a university level.

    Lewisham on
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    Iceman.USAFIceman.USAF Major East CoastRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Lewisham wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    That is pretty sad - most colleges deal with plagiarism severely no matter what the assignment was.

    You make it sound like it's a bad thing.
    If something extremely bad happens, the university will support you.

    Not always true, but that's a different thread.


    Anyways, is there an absolute way to show your essay was first?

    If so, I'd email this kid and give him the chance to essentially turn himself in. Couple pros and cons to this.

    Pro, He might light something.
    Pro, You don't actually have to do anything.
    Con, he might try to get out of it.
    Con, Professor might not take it as seriously.

    In all, I'd just go straight to the Prof, but just wanted to put the idea out there.

    Iceman.USAF on
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I said it was a bad thing, but it's obviously not the college's problem. It's a bad thing that the girl was so stupid. Obviously colleges have to punish these things severely or they'd happen more often than they already do.

    KalTorak on
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    noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    You got more self control than I do. Cause I would have probably not only emailed the prof, but the girl as well.

    noir_blood on
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    Nakatomi2010Nakatomi2010 Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I wanna know what happens to the girl! I thrive on negative energy from others....

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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I wanna know what happens to the girl! I thrive on negative energy from others....

    The whole forum does.

    KalTorak on
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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    In case you guys are curious, I just got this email from my prof:
    I just wanted to let you know that I have turned over your discussion
    board posting and the other student's for an inquiry. Don't panic----I
    have already made it perfectly clear to the Assistant Dean that I do not
    think you had any involvement with this matter---I think you are a
    victim here---and she (Catherine McCorry-Andalis) agrees with me. She
    will follow up with you though, so be expecting her to contact you. I
    have already sent her a copy of your posting and the other student's,
    noting that yours was posted 2 days earlier and that you, in fact,
    alerted me to the problem. I think she just wants you to verify my
    version of the story. Just tell her how you happened to discover the
    plagiarism, just as you told me. Again, you are not even remotely in
    trouble here. Also, please don't worry about any backlash from the
    other student. As far as she will be informed, I was the one who
    discovered her dishonesty. Thanks for contacting me. You did the right
    thing.

    So looks like things got turned over to the Assistant Dean. I'm guessing the girl is going to get an F in the class for sure, and some additional punishment.
    I won't like..I feel a bit guilty, but at the same time know she had that coming.

    Kyougu on
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2008
    Kyougu wrote: »
    So looks like things got turned over to the Assistant Dean. I'm guessing the girl is going to get an F in the class for sure, and some additional punishment.
    I won't like..I feel a bit guilty, but at the same time know she had that coming.

    I understand your sympathy, but two thirds of college is about taking responsibility for yourself.

    Doc on
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    VThornheartVThornheart Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Kyougu wrote: »
    In case you guys are curious, I just got this email from my prof:
    I just wanted to let you know that I have turned over your discussion
    board posting and the other student's for an inquiry. Don't panic----I
    have already made it perfectly clear to the Assistant Dean that I do not
    think you had any involvement with this matter---I think you are a
    victim here---and she (Catherine McCorry-Andalis) agrees with me. She
    will follow up with you though, so be expecting her to contact you. I
    have already sent her a copy of your posting and the other student's,
    noting that yours was posted 2 days earlier and that you, in fact,
    alerted me to the problem. I think she just wants you to verify my
    version of the story. Just tell her how you happened to discover the
    plagiarism, just as you told me. Again, you are not even remotely in
    trouble here. Also, please don't worry about any backlash from the
    other student. As far as she will be informed, I was the one who
    discovered her dishonesty. Thanks for contacting me. You did the right
    thing.

    So looks like things got turned over to the Assistant Dean. I'm guessing the girl is going to get an F in the class for sure, and some additional punishment.
    I won't like..I feel a bit guilty, but at the same time know she had that coming.

    You definitely did the right thing. It takes balls to do, but it helps to make sure that the degree honest students receive is actually WORTH something. If everyone let plagarism skate, there'd be plenty of people who graduate without having a clue what they're talking about (sadly, this already happens: all the more reason to report plagarism as it's found to try and curb it), and that'd devalue the worth of a college degree (especially for those who actually earn it).

    She'll learn her lesson the hard way hopefully and keep going... or she'll continue to screw up and get thrown out as she deserves to. Either way, don't feel bad. You did what everyone else in your situation *ought* to do.

    VThornheart on
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    LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Doc wrote: »
    Kyougu wrote: »
    So looks like things got turned over to the Assistant Dean. I'm guessing the girl is going to get an F in the class for sure, and some additional punishment.
    I won't like..I feel a bit guilty, but at the same time know she had that coming.

    I understand your sympathy, but two thirds of college is about taking responsibility for yourself.

    No truer words have been spoken.

    Lewisham on
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    ihmmyihmmy Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I know at my uni, we have a policy on academic honesty... which is mentioned in -every- class and on our student website (where you check email and postings by prof's, etc). It's pretty much shoved in your face every way you look, especially at the start of term. If somebody decides to be that bloody stupid, it's not your fault and you did nothing wrong

    ihmmy on
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