Man, I really don't reckon it makes a difference. I don't think people are likely to be tipped over the edge from no-rape to rape if placed in the same room as a potential target. Someone who's capable of making that jump isn't going to be put off that mental course by two inches of gyprock and timber. But hey, I don't hate men *shrug* maybe I'm a radical on this point.
Depends if the roommate is actually a "target," or if somebody is just drunk enough that they don't know what the fuck they're doing. Not the norm, of course, but it actually happens. I've had a dude get so drunk he tried to get in bed with me an snuggle, calling me the name of his girlfriend back home. I'm 99% certain this had nothing to do with me being so irresistibly sexy, and rather had more to do with him being so intoxicated he probably didn't know his own name anymore.
And he didn't remember any of it (which also included him peeing on somebody else who was sleeping) the next day.
Is this likely to happen in a coed dorm room? Of course not. But I'd say it's less likely to happen between two people who aren't sharing a bedroom. A bit of sheetrock and a flimsy interior door won't stop a determined rapist, obviously, but it can be enough to stop unintentional drunken shenanigans.
Of course, then you get into whether it's actually better for this to happen to the drunken lout's roommate if they're of the same gender. Probably not. But I think perhaps it could lead to less extreme consequences (from a legal standpoint, and from a PR standpoint for the school) that way.
that I can go with, but again, I don't contend that the arrangement actually increases the likelihood of crime.
I'd say it increases, at least somewhat, the likelihood that a crime will happen, and at the least increases the likelihood that the crime will cause significant PR/legal fallout.
Then again, given the number of male-on-male sexual assault charges that come out of my university's dorms, maybe not.
I will say that to be safe any school administering coed rooms should probably limit it to those selecting roommates (by name) and not actually assign it (so don't let a male student simply sign up for "any" female roommate). They're less likely to catch shit if the persons involved chose each other as roommates specifically. Of course, I apply the same standard to same-sex rooms as well...personally I think it's pretty ludicrous that schools require students to live on-campus at all to begin with, and I think it's particularly unreasonable for them to force people to live with roommates. Especially since they generally go on to force those same students to sign contracts absolving the school of any responsibility for pretty much anything that might happen ever (from roommate theft to assault).
But how can we be calm when universities are putting our children into rape rooms?
Yeah this whole thing is kinda silly. It's something that should be a non-issue, but because it's new some people feel that they probably should be upset, you know, because there is some vague moral gray area or something.
I do agree with people that there is the risk of blame being placed on the university if something bad does happen, but I don't think that's enough of a risk to be against this (which again, I'm not assuming people who are bringing this up are against the idea). I think it's a step in the right direction of treating adults like adults instead of using denial to make people feel better. I also think that years from now people with think it's silly that people even thought this was a weird thing at all.
(so don't let a male student simply sign up for "any" female roommate).
I don't see why you shouldn't allow that.
Because I'm obviously stuck in the '50s.
That, or because I could imagine the school being exposed to a lot more liability or a much larger PR nightmare for an incident between roommates they actually placed together, rather than ones who chose each other.
Either way.
Of course, I also think the school should probably bear more liability for any shit that happens between same-gender roommates that they pair together. Might make them reconsider the living arrangements they're requiring their students to put up with, and rethink some of their policies. But realistically, that's not going to happen.
Of course, I also think the school should probably bear more liability for any shit that happens between same-gender roommates that they pair together. Might make them reconsider the living arrangements they're requiring their students to put up with, and rethink some of their policies. But realistically, that's not going to happen.
It should. Sharing living space is great, but I strongly suspect that making people share sleeping space is nothing more than long-since-institutionalised stinginess :?
Of course, I also think the school should probably bear more liability for any shit that happens between same-gender roommates that they pair together. Might make them reconsider the living arrangements they're requiring their students to put up with, and rethink some of their policies. But realistically, that's not going to happen.
It should. Sharing living space is great, but I strongly suspect that making people share sleeping space is nothing more than long-since-institutionalised stinginess :?
Pretty much. I think shared space, even relatively tight quarters, is perfectly appropriate (and healthy) for coed roommates. But shared sleeping space is barely acceptable (actually, I don't even find it acceptable at all) for single-sex roommates. And while I know that around here at least this makes me the off-the-wall conservative, I'm betting that the likelihood of the school running into issues is higher for coed sleeping spaces. Not just "olol rape," but also less dramatic issues like sexual harassment or having to deal with more mid-year switches.
My ideal solution would be a revamping of dorm space such that coed roommates (and, you know, everybody else) would have a bit more personal space. Which would be a pretty big win all around, and hey if it moves us further from the Victorian age so much the better.
EDIT: Or in other words, I think this is probably a less than fantastic idea, but more due to the general absurdity of dorm living in general and not, "oh no! sex!"
Also, I should point out that I haven't actually had to do the whole double-occupancy dorm thing...so I'm not talking entirely out of experience. The dorm I live in now is all singles, and all 21+. But I did do the roommate thing in the Army (2-man rooms, as well as a 4-man room, both in a normal barracks as well as overseas) so I have a little experience with the whole shared sleeping space thing.
I think the entire dorm requirement is idiotic anyway, I just think it gets particularly unacceptable when they force roommates on you. Especially since the whole "people need to get out of their shells" argument flies right the hell out the window when they start making exceptions for students who still live with their parents (both my school and another I looked at had this exception). Those are the exact people who need to be forced out into the world, yet they're exempt while I'm (theoretically) restricted from getting a place with a couple buddies so the school can instead pair me with some dude they chose based on what kind of music I checked off as liking.
Riiiiiiiiight.
Of course, I thankfully avoided all that. I'm doing the dorm thing now since the wife and I are geographically separated, but back when I started school I had no intention of doing the dorm thing. Technically I was still required to (I didn't meet any of their exemptions) but they didn't bring it up and neither did I. The fact that I was applying a couple days before the spring semester started probably helped. :P
Anyway, that's all only tangentially related. I just wanted to try and establish that I'm not Pants Man. My hesitance at this idea should be taken in the context of how ridiculous I think the entire dorm system is to begin with; it's not like I just suddenly got all amazed and horrified at the idea of dudes and chicks living together.
I got lucky with my freshman year roommate. I didn't even get to fill out a sheet to be matched up based on relevant interests like apparently almost everyone else gets to do. Instead I got paired with someone based on random availability in a scholarship hall (extra cheap dorms available only to nerds). That roommate is now one of my best friends. Of course I would suggest a scholarship hall to absolutely everyone, as being not only roommates but entire building mates with a bunch of geeks is fucking fun.
Okay so maybe being in a schol hall doesn't get you laid constantly, but come on, it's college, so that doesn't require too much effort anyway.
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
1) Gives homosexual students more chance to feel comfortable.
2) Gives heterosexual friends the ability to room together.
I'm currently living in a dorm which unofficially allows co-ed roommates: while the university policy is still against, the dorm officials won't turn anyone in over it. It's also the unofficial gay theme dorm, and a co-op, so the population is generally liberal. I'm unaware of any sexual misconduct issues arising from the arrangement.
I almost roomed with a close female friend of mine, and think the option should absolutely exist, and as such I voted for the student government candidates who were trying to extend gender-neutral housing to more dorms.
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
I'm not gonna rape my straight attractive male room mate am I? Jesus christ people.
Also, this. I think that being gay puts things in a very different perspective.
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
edited May 2008
T-t-t-triple post!
The housing prices where I go to school are also insane, so very few people live off-campus. Whether off-campus living is viable for students is going to vary tremendously between schools.
Wait. There are universities that force you to stay with random roommates and actually don't permit you to share with friends instead? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Why the hell do they do that?
For the amount American students are charged, not having single rooms as standard is outrageous.
Do US shared-rooms have shared sleeping space as well? I'm with mcdermott in finding that unacceptable for any sexes arrangement. The few shared-rooms at UK universities only have a shared living area, with two small bedrooms attached through doors.
For the amount American students are charged, not having single rooms as standard is outrageous.
Do US shared-rooms have shared sleeping space as well? I'm with mcdermott in finding that unacceptable for any sexes arrangement. The few shared-rooms at UK universities only have a shared living area, with two small bedrooms attached through doors.
I know my university and at least one of my friends' universities have the option of having a private room with a shared bathroom, for a bit more cost.
I was under the impression that the majority of dorm rooms are a single room shared by two roommates with a bathroom en suite or a community bathroom for each hallway. So yeah, shared sleeping space.
Cost issues aside, I don't have a problem with same or opposite sexes sharing a sleeping area if they want to. I mean, college aged people are adults.
For the amount American students are charged, not having single rooms as standard is outrageous.
Do US shared-rooms have shared sleeping space as well? I'm with mcdermott in finding that unacceptable for any sexes arrangement. The few shared-rooms at UK universities only have a shared living area, with two small bedrooms attached through doors.
I was under the impression that the majority of dorm rooms are a single room shared by two roommates with a bathroom en suite or a community bathroom for each hallway. So yeah, shared sleeping space.
Yep, pretty much how it is at most places. Over here we have a bit more singles than other US schools, like, I had a single my freshman year (though 113sf).. but since Sophomores get somewhat the worst housing of everyone, I have a double now, though it's rather nice and all my friends are in the dorm.
But yeah, shared sleeping spaces are more than common. People who have a sleeping space AND another living room are the lucky ones. With good housing lotto #s. Or are seniors. Seniors get sweet housing.
I see no problem with this co-ed housing thing, because really, how must gay people feel when they're forced to have a same sex roommate? Choice is good. I mean, the boy and the girl have to choose to live with each other, it's not like it would happen unless both parties are willing.
There is at least one hall of residence at at least one UK university that has at least one apartment in which at least one of the bedrooms consists of two beds in which two people sleep, that is, a shared sleeping space.
I propose that we could generalise a little beyond the limited information I possess. But one knows not how far and wide.
how must gay people feel when they're forced to have a same sex roommate? Choice is good. I mean, the boy and the girl have to choose to live with each other, it's not like it would happen unless both parties are willing.
I can't speak for other gays, but I would feel incredibly awkward having a female roomate [who wasn't a close friend] in a shared sleeping style room.
I'm not gonna rape my straight attractive male room mate am I? Jesus christ people.
well you'll probably buy him dinner first or something
Eddy: Do you want to order a pizza?
Roommate: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
edited May 2008
Honestly I dont really understand this whole 'OMFG I CANT HAVE MY DAUGHTER SLEEP IN THE SAME ROOM AS A MAN!' argument.
They're sharing the same room to sleep in, nothing more. And if the dorms have a common baths, then it's even more innocent. Honestly who stays in their room all day staring at their roommates? The only time I'm in my room is when I'm sleeping, otherwise I'm not in my room.
If anything the victims are the guys, cause now he have to listen to some whiny ass 18 year old girl drama shit. Even worse, now he have to listen to a group of girls doing their whiny ass 18 year old girls drama CONVERSATIONS!
I think the entire dorm requirement is idiotic anyway, I just think it gets particularly unacceptable when they force roommates on you
'
Wait, what? Some colleges in the States actually require people to live in dorms? Thats fucking absurd. Or am I misreading this?
It's no lie, CU boulder requires all traditional freshman (students who isnt 21+) to live at the dorm (unless they're living with the parents), with forced meal plans.
And those meal plans are bullshit. With that kind of food budget I could be eating lobster dinners every freaking night. I'm glad I am an untraditional student.
I think the entire dorm requirement is idiotic anyway, I just think it gets particularly unacceptable when they force roommates on you
'
Wait, what? Some colleges in the States actually require people to live in dorms? Thats fucking absurd. Or am I misreading this?
It's no lie, CU boulder requires all traditional freshman (students who isnt 21+) to live at the dorm (unless they're living with the parents), with forced meal plans.
And those meal plans are bullshit. With that kind of food budget I could be eating lobster dinners every freaking night. I'm glad I am an untraditional student.
That has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Forcing people to live in dorms is a terrible idea. I did my one year in dorms because I thought it would be good for me (which it was not), but I'd have been totally pissed if I'd been forced to be there. I can understand the theory that dorms will be good for people in a number of ways, but forced living requirements for a school that you are paying to go to strikes me as totally bizzare. I think I'll look around and see if any schools here in Canada do this, I've never even heard of this sort of thing before this thread.
Yeah, it's pretty common in the US. At my school, you could only live off campus as a freshman if your permanent address was within 35 miles of campus, and you had to prove your relationship to the owner of said residence.
I think the entire dorm requirement is idiotic anyway, I just think it gets particularly unacceptable when they force roommates on you
'
Wait, what? Some colleges in the States actually require people to live in dorms? Thats fucking absurd. Or am I misreading this?
It's no lie, CU boulder requires all traditional freshman (students who isnt 21+) to live at the dorm (unless they're living with the parents), with forced meal plans.
And those meal plans are bullshit. With that kind of food budget I could be eating lobster dinners every freaking night. I'm glad I am an untraditional student.
That has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Forcing people to live in dorms is a terrible idea. I did my one year in dorms because I thought it would be good for me (which it was not), but I'd have been totally pissed if I'd been forced to be there. I can understand the theory that dorms will be good for people in a number of ways, but forced living requirements for a school that you are paying to go to strikes me as totally bizzare. I think I'll look around and see if any schools here in Canada do this, I've never even heard of this sort of thing before this thread.
I went to CU boulder and when I was there you could get one of the smaller meal plans and weren't forced to pay for 3 meals a day.
I think forcing under 21 students to live in the dorms of non-commuter colleges is a GREAT idea. I had a terrible experience in my dorm room my first year but all of my current friends came from living in the dorms. So overall I think it was a positive experience.
Edit: BTW I lived on a Co-ed floor in the engineering dorms. People of different genders weren't sharing rooms but every other room was a different gender. Also I knew one guy who freaked out when his roomate came out of the closet so I can definitely see the benefits of some coed rooms.
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No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
Yeah, I think at my college it was the first two terms or something that you were more or less required to live in one of the 7 undergrad houses. I thought it was a great idea. Though I admit it's mostly because I'm lazy and living on-campus was really convenient. Roll out of bed 5 minutes before class and go to lecture in pajamas? Yes please. But I'm also an only-child, and I'd never lived with people of my own age before, so I was really looking forward to that. I'm a fairly easy-going person, so I was never really involved in any major dorm drama or anything, and Caltech is a fairly tame school, so nothing really awful happens much in the dorms.
My college requires all non-local-resident freshmen to live on-campus as well, and I'm convinced it's just a scam to get money from the high room & board fees. Property values around here are some of the lowest in the country, so off-campus rent is really cheap, and everybody knows how much of a ripoff on-campus food is.
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Depends if the roommate is actually a "target," or if somebody is just drunk enough that they don't know what the fuck they're doing. Not the norm, of course, but it actually happens. I've had a dude get so drunk he tried to get in bed with me an snuggle, calling me the name of his girlfriend back home. I'm 99% certain this had nothing to do with me being so irresistibly sexy, and rather had more to do with him being so intoxicated he probably didn't know his own name anymore.
And he didn't remember any of it (which also included him peeing on somebody else who was sleeping) the next day.
Is this likely to happen in a coed dorm room? Of course not. But I'd say it's less likely to happen between two people who aren't sharing a bedroom. A bit of sheetrock and a flimsy interior door won't stop a determined rapist, obviously, but it can be enough to stop unintentional drunken shenanigans.
Of course, then you get into whether it's actually better for this to happen to the drunken lout's roommate if they're of the same gender. Probably not. But I think perhaps it could lead to less extreme consequences (from a legal standpoint, and from a PR standpoint for the school) that way.
I'd say it increases, at least somewhat, the likelihood that a crime will happen, and at the least increases the likelihood that the crime will cause significant PR/legal fallout.
Then again, given the number of male-on-male sexual assault charges that come out of my university's dorms, maybe not.
I will say that to be safe any school administering coed rooms should probably limit it to those selecting roommates (by name) and not actually assign it (so don't let a male student simply sign up for "any" female roommate). They're less likely to catch shit if the persons involved chose each other as roommates specifically. Of course, I apply the same standard to same-sex rooms as well...personally I think it's pretty ludicrous that schools require students to live on-campus at all to begin with, and I think it's particularly unreasonable for them to force people to live with roommates. Especially since they generally go on to force those same students to sign contracts absolving the school of any responsibility for pretty much anything that might happen ever (from roommate theft to assault).
I'm trying to figure out why you're always so surly. Chill out.
But she isn't a dwarf
I haven't been so far, but I sure as fuck am now. Kindly refrain from reading your issues into my posts knthnx.
But how can we be calm when universities are putting our children into rape rooms?
Yeah this whole thing is kinda silly. It's something that should be a non-issue, but because it's new some people feel that they probably should be upset, you know, because there is some vague moral gray area or something.
I do agree with people that there is the risk of blame being placed on the university if something bad does happen, but I don't think that's enough of a risk to be against this (which again, I'm not assuming people who are bringing this up are against the idea). I think it's a step in the right direction of treating adults like adults instead of using denial to make people feel better. I also think that years from now people with think it's silly that people even thought this was a weird thing at all.
I'm not gonna rape my straight attractive male room mate am I? Jesus christ people.
That, or because I could imagine the school being exposed to a lot more liability or a much larger PR nightmare for an incident between roommates they actually placed together, rather than ones who chose each other.
Either way.
Of course, I also think the school should probably bear more liability for any shit that happens between same-gender roommates that they pair together. Might make them reconsider the living arrangements they're requiring their students to put up with, and rethink some of their policies. But realistically, that's not going to happen.
It should. Sharing living space is great, but I strongly suspect that making people share sleeping space is nothing more than long-since-institutionalised stinginess :?
Pretty much. I think shared space, even relatively tight quarters, is perfectly appropriate (and healthy) for coed roommates. But shared sleeping space is barely acceptable (actually, I don't even find it acceptable at all) for single-sex roommates. And while I know that around here at least this makes me the off-the-wall conservative, I'm betting that the likelihood of the school running into issues is higher for coed sleeping spaces. Not just "olol rape," but also less dramatic issues like sexual harassment or having to deal with more mid-year switches.
My ideal solution would be a revamping of dorm space such that coed roommates (and, you know, everybody else) would have a bit more personal space. Which would be a pretty big win all around, and hey if it moves us further from the Victorian age so much the better.
EDIT: Or in other words, I think this is probably a less than fantastic idea, but more due to the general absurdity of dorm living in general and not, "oh no! sex!"
I think the entire dorm requirement is idiotic anyway, I just think it gets particularly unacceptable when they force roommates on you. Especially since the whole "people need to get out of their shells" argument flies right the hell out the window when they start making exceptions for students who still live with their parents (both my school and another I looked at had this exception). Those are the exact people who need to be forced out into the world, yet they're exempt while I'm (theoretically) restricted from getting a place with a couple buddies so the school can instead pair me with some dude they chose based on what kind of music I checked off as liking.
Riiiiiiiiight.
Of course, I thankfully avoided all that. I'm doing the dorm thing now since the wife and I are geographically separated, but back when I started school I had no intention of doing the dorm thing. Technically I was still required to (I didn't meet any of their exemptions) but they didn't bring it up and neither did I. The fact that I was applying a couple days before the spring semester started probably helped. :P
Anyway, that's all only tangentially related. I just wanted to try and establish that I'm not Pants Man. My hesitance at this idea should be taken in the context of how ridiculous I think the entire dorm system is to begin with; it's not like I just suddenly got all amazed and horrified at the idea of dudes and chicks living together.
Okay so maybe being in a schol hall doesn't get you laid constantly, but come on, it's college, so that doesn't require too much effort anyway.
I'm currently living in a dorm which unofficially allows co-ed roommates: while the university policy is still against, the dorm officials won't turn anyone in over it. It's also the unofficial gay theme dorm, and a co-op, so the population is generally liberal. I'm unaware of any sexual misconduct issues arising from the arrangement.
I almost roomed with a close female friend of mine, and think the option should absolutely exist, and as such I voted for the student government candidates who were trying to extend gender-neutral housing to more dorms.
Also, this. I think that being gay puts things in a very different perspective.
The housing prices where I go to school are also insane, so very few people live off-campus. Whether off-campus living is viable for students is going to vary tremendously between schools.
Do US shared-rooms have shared sleeping space as well? I'm with mcdermott in finding that unacceptable for any sexes arrangement. The few shared-rooms at UK universities only have a shared living area, with two small bedrooms attached through doors.
I was under the impression that the majority of dorm rooms are a single room shared by two roommates with a bathroom en suite or a community bathroom for each hallway. So yeah, shared sleeping space.
Cost issues aside, I don't have a problem with same or opposite sexes sharing a sleeping area if they want to. I mean, college aged people are adults.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
Yep, pretty much how it is at most places. Over here we have a bit more singles than other US schools, like, I had a single my freshman year (though 113sf).. but since Sophomores get somewhat the worst housing of everyone, I have a double now, though it's rather nice and all my friends are in the dorm.
But yeah, shared sleeping spaces are more than common. People who have a sleeping space AND another living room are the lucky ones. With good housing lotto #s. Or are seniors. Seniors get sweet housing.
I see no problem with this co-ed housing thing, because really, how must gay people feel when they're forced to have a same sex roommate? Choice is good. I mean, the boy and the girl have to choose to live with each other, it's not like it would happen unless both parties are willing.
I propose that we could generalise a little beyond the limited information I possess. But one knows not how far and wide.
well you'll probably buy him dinner first or something
I can't speak for other gays, but I would feel incredibly awkward having a female roomate [who wasn't a close friend] in a shared sleeping style room.
I don't understand.
Yeah, why hasn't this been brought up at the biweekly fag meeting?
Eddy: Do you want to order a pizza?
Roommate: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
They're sharing the same room to sleep in, nothing more. And if the dorms have a common baths, then it's even more innocent. Honestly who stays in their room all day staring at their roommates? The only time I'm in my room is when I'm sleeping, otherwise I'm not in my room.
If anything the victims are the guys, cause now he have to listen to some whiny ass 18 year old girl drama shit. Even worse, now he have to listen to a group of girls doing their whiny ass 18 year old girls drama CONVERSATIONS!
Wait, what? Some colleges in the States actually require people to live in dorms? Thats fucking absurd. Or am I misreading this?
It's no lie, CU boulder requires all traditional freshman (students who isnt 21+) to live at the dorm (unless they're living with the parents), with forced meal plans.
And those meal plans are bullshit. With that kind of food budget I could be eating lobster dinners every freaking night. I'm glad I am an untraditional student.
It was "highly recommended," if not an outright requirement I think at my school for freshmen.
I promise to bring this up at the next secret meeting of the BGA (Big Gay Agenda).
Ohio State requires just one year; most often freshman year. After that it's your call.
Notre Dame requires dorms for all undergrads, which means minimum of 4 years in (usually) the same dorm.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
That has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Forcing people to live in dorms is a terrible idea. I did my one year in dorms because I thought it would be good for me (which it was not), but I'd have been totally pissed if I'd been forced to be there. I can understand the theory that dorms will be good for people in a number of ways, but forced living requirements for a school that you are paying to go to strikes me as totally bizzare. I think I'll look around and see if any schools here in Canada do this, I've never even heard of this sort of thing before this thread.
I went to CU boulder and when I was there you could get one of the smaller meal plans and weren't forced to pay for 3 meals a day.
I think forcing under 21 students to live in the dorms of non-commuter colleges is a GREAT idea. I had a terrible experience in my dorm room my first year but all of my current friends came from living in the dorms. So overall I think it was a positive experience.
Edit: BTW I lived on a Co-ed floor in the engineering dorms. People of different genders weren't sharing rooms but every other room was a different gender. Also I knew one guy who freaked out when his roomate came out of the closet so I can definitely see the benefits of some coed rooms.
...how about some Jimmy Johns then :winky: