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Build a new PC or just graphic card upgrade as a small stop-gap? Advice please...
Pajama_Man
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I need some advice/suggestion if I should build a new gaming desktop or just buy a single graphics card and hold on a for a bit longer with the old setup. Budget isn't much I'm looking to spend somewhere around $500-700 on a new system.
The current system that I built about 2.5 years ago:
My LCD's native 1680x1050 and the lack of SM3.0 is limiting a lot on the games that I can play smoothly with my current video card. I'm also really feeling the burn now for not going with a DDR2 supported motherboard back then.
Should I build an all new PC or do a slight stop gab and grab a 8800GT 512mb to hold me over a bit longer before doing a full overhaul?
I feel kind of bad now today for not jumping on the EVGA Nvidia 9800GTX 512mb for $250 at Fry's after rebate yesterday but my concerned was that the cost to gain ratio to a 8800GT 512mb (~$150) was not worth it.
Some short questions I would like advices on...
Thanks you for your help!
The current system that I built about 2.5 years ago:
AMD Athlon 64 3700+ ABIT AN8-SLi (nForce4) has 2x SATA 2GB DDR-400 PC3200 (set of 4 Corsair XMS pairs; no more slots left) Sapphire ATi Radeon x850xt 256mb GDDR3
My LCD's native 1680x1050 and the lack of SM3.0 is limiting a lot on the games that I can play smoothly with my current video card. I'm also really feeling the burn now for not going with a DDR2 supported motherboard back then.
Should I build an all new PC or do a slight stop gab and grab a 8800GT 512mb to hold me over a bit longer before doing a full overhaul?
I feel kind of bad now today for not jumping on the EVGA Nvidia 9800GTX 512mb for $250 at Fry's after rebate yesterday but my concerned was that the cost to gain ratio to a 8800GT 512mb (~$150) was not worth it.
Some short questions I would like advices on...
- DDR3: I know they're kind of expensive right now compared to DDR2 but adoption wise, will DDR3 get more popular/cheaper? Adopt now and don't regret it later?
- fan noise: is the standard 8800GT fan loud at 100% speed? How would this XFX 8800GT w/ ZALMAN fan compare in terms of noise? My x850xt is loud as hell and I can barely hear my self think!
- I'm looking at EVGA as the brand of choice but is their 90 day step-up program worth the additional price on their cards?
- Will Intel's LGA 775 socket continue to be the "shiznat" for long? Something upcoming on the AMD or Intel side to watch out for?
Processor
Model : 1x AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3700+
Speed : 2.21GHz
Model Number : 3700 (estimated)
Performance Rating : PR3978 (estimated)
Cores per Processor : 1 Unit(s)
Threads per Core : 1 Unit(s)
Internal Data Cache : 64kB Synchronous, Write-Back, 2-way set, 64 byte line size
L2 On-board Cache : 1MB ECC Synchronous, Write-Back, 16-way set, 64 byte line size
Chipset 1
Model : Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) Athlon 64 / Opteron HyperTransport Technology Configuration
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 1005MHz (2010MHz data rate)
Total Memory : 2GB DDR-SDRAM
Memory Bus Speed : 2x 157MHz (314MHz data rate)
Video System
Monitor/Panel : SyncMaster 223BW/223BWG/216BW(Digital)
Adapter : RADEON X850 XT
Hard Disk : WDC WD2500JB-00GVA0 (233GB) IDE
Device : Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS (WDM)
Model : 1x AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3700+
Speed : 2.21GHz
Model Number : 3700 (estimated)
Performance Rating : PR3978 (estimated)
Cores per Processor : 1 Unit(s)
Threads per Core : 1 Unit(s)
Internal Data Cache : 64kB Synchronous, Write-Back, 2-way set, 64 byte line size
L2 On-board Cache : 1MB ECC Synchronous, Write-Back, 16-way set, 64 byte line size
Chipset 1
Model : Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) Athlon 64 / Opteron HyperTransport Technology Configuration
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 1005MHz (2010MHz data rate)
Total Memory : 2GB DDR-SDRAM
Memory Bus Speed : 2x 157MHz (314MHz data rate)
Video System
Monitor/Panel : SyncMaster 223BW/223BWG/216BW(Digital)
Adapter : RADEON X850 XT
Hard Disk : WDC WD2500JB-00GVA0 (233GB) IDE
Device : Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS (WDM)
Thanks you for your help!
Pajama_Man on
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Posts
Other questions:
1) DDR3 is a complete waste of money. It provides maybe a 5% performance increase and costs five times as much as DDR2. Just say no. By the time it becomes worthwhile you'll need a new motherboard anyway. Early adopters always get fucked. No exceptions.
2) You usually want to stick with the reference cooler; nine times out of ten when a card manufacturer sticks a Zalman fan on there it's actually to save money. Besides, the Zalman doesn't cool the memory chips.
3) Are you going to use the step-up program? There's your answer. Pretty much all brands are the same (in fact, there are fewer manufacturers than there are brands, believe it or not).
4) Hahaha. AMD is on the brink of maybe getting their act together, and if (and that's a big "if") the new Phenom triple-core is priced right it might take back price/performance from Intel (though not max performance, obviously). On Intel's side, the new Nehalem core is nearing completion and that's gonna require a new socket.
Check this guy out (under "Select Inspiron 530 Desktops starting at $499 (after instant savings)", then click on the coupon code to see the machine.) It's a really nice little system, and all it needs is a video card. Buy an nVidia 8800 series for ~200 (more or less depending on the exact model number) and you should be right at $700 with a machine that can play pretty much anything you throw at it.
It's what I would do if I had the money.
This is a great deal though. For this weekend anyways.
Also freakish, that dell only comes with a 300 watt psu, so expect to tack on another 60-100$ for a decent PSU, or it would choke hard with an 8800
That's true, I heard about those PSU issues in the other thread. Still, it's not that much more $$$ over budget and it's a nice little box.
It's a PCIe. 1.0 or 1.0a or whichever I'm not sure. For sure though I know it's not 2.0.
Thanks for the answers! Guess I'll grab an 8800GT and squeeze in another year somehow before doing a full upgrade. Hopefully by then a new CPU socket will be popular and DDR3 or other new fangled memory standard becomes popular/cheap.
:EDIT: BTW would a new AMD 939 processor help a bit or waste of money? Since they're pretty cheap, maybe I can find one thats better then the one I currently have (Athlon 64 3700+) as I'm too chicken to over clock anything.
If you can find a S939 dual-core Athlon real cheap (and if your motherboard supports it!) it might be worth it, otherwise don't bother. You're not going to get any noticeable improvement from a slightly faster single core.
And wow, just looking off ebay...
~$300 for an Athlon FX-60
~$200 for an Athlon FX-55
It might be a lot cheaper then when they were out but man thats outrageous. o_O
Think I'll save my money...
i'm running :
AMD Athlon 64X2 Dual Core 4200+ (2.2ghz)
2 GB of DDR-400 PC3200 (yeah, motherboard doesn't support DDR2 - ugh)
Geforce 8600 GT.
Basically weighing up either doing a mobo/cpu/ram upgrade to some kind of intel quad core (probably around £250 all in), or throwing a 8800 GT 512mb in there (£110 ish) to tide me over.
I don't really play too much that's cutting edge, but i'd like to give Crysis at least a half decent whirl at medium settings, and go through some stuff i've missed like Oblivion and Fear. The main performance boost i'd want is in WoW, it seems to really slug - even with settings down - in 25 man raids. Example - in this shot there's really not even a lot going on, settings no where near maxed, and i'm still sitting at around 25fps. Would just slinging a new gfx card in be my best bet to see steadier 50ish fps framerates ? Or am i being limited by my cpu/ram ?
I was in almost the same situation as this a few weeks ago. (X2 4200+, x1800xt 512m, only 1gb ram)
I decided to grab an 8800gt and throw it in. There was a noticeable improvement, but it really wasnt what i was hoping for. A week later i upgraded everything else (new mobo, ram, E8400 overclocked to 4ghz) and now i couldnt be happier
However you may as well get the 8800 first, see if it gives you the improvement you want, and if not there is nothing to stop you upgrading the rest like i did. I dont play wow though so i cant comment on the framerates you can expect there.
It's just various things i've heard about WoW being very CPU limited. I mean, it's run on the old unreal engine, isn't it ? ANY graphics card above like, a geforce 3 should eat that up, really. If i can get a 20 or so fps bump in the most intensive places ingame, meaning i'd sit around 50fps, i'd be happy just slapping a new gfx card in there.
I know 3dmark doesnt really mean much in terms of real game results, but its the only definate scores i have .. the 8800 doubled my 3dmark06 score, from 4500ish to 8600, and im sitting at around 13500 now with all the new hardware.
In terms of game performance, It let me play crysis relatively nicely on medium, (though im not into the latter parts of the game yet where apparently frame rate takes a pretty steep drop).
I also play alot of Wolfenstein Enemy Territory, which is a Q3 engine game and very CPU limited, as such i didnt see too much improvement in frame rates there (though it possibly made them more stable).
If wow is as cpu limited as you say, i cant see an 8600 struggling with it too much. Have you thought about overclocking your processor? (most 4200s are pretty nice overclockers, i had mine stable at 2.6ghz and could probably have pushed it to 2.8).
buy.com also has a factory overclocked EVGA 8800GT 512MB Superclocked (650MHz core clocked) for $168.99 after $30 rebate.
Spec comparison of the BFG and EVGA cards. Both companies have a form of limited lifetime warranty on their cards if you register them within a certain amount of time on their respective website. Both have a trade up/step up programs, although I doubt the 8800GT qualifies for BFG since their's is limited to cards "launched" after 2/21/08 (BFG Trade Up).
If you want to spend more, frys.com still has the EVGA 9800GTX 512MB on the site for $250 after $50 rebate.
Gonna try overclocking in a sec, bit wary because last time i tried that a few years back, the computer wouldn't even boot to bios after and i had to fuck around with the jumpers resetting everything (after a few minutes of complete panic). Very tempted to go for a cheapo 8800 GT anyhow, not much to lose.
Went to Fry's Electronics during lunch and got a BFG 8800GT OC 512MB.
Turns out the one I got has the old louder and smaller fan (13 fins) as opposed to the newer and bigger (15 fins) fans (http://en.expreview.com/2007/12/05/comparison-8800gts-new-stock-cooler-is-cool-n-quiet/).
I was under the assumption that by now all the cards in the current stock would have the new cooling unit considering the the new ones have appeared since late last year (probably differs from seller to seller). I know BFG Tech. 8800GT cards exist with the new cooling units but arrgg...
Is there anyway to tell from outside the box if the card has an older fan unit or the newer one? Stock number, serial number? Hopefully this won't turn into a crap shoot.
The card works great and I'm happy I can finally try out all the old games I missed that used SM3.0. Extreamly noticeable performance in Lord of the Rings Online which is great but if I can get a hold of the newer cooling unit I'd be a lot happier.
As far as the older fan. I would install ATI Tool and Rivatuner. Check your temps and overclock stability in ATI Tool and do you overclocks there or in Rivatuner. Definitely use riva tuner to set the fan speed if it is low at default. My brother has a launch BFG 8800GT and his fan would only spin at 30% max. I showed him how to force it higher in Rivatuner. It runs much cooler.
so is that upgrade or not ?
i went to overclock last night, but apparently the 'vm' in my asus a8v-vm means 'value model', which have no options for overclocking at all. lovely.
i've had an x1950xt 256mb for about a year and a half now. it's worked out quite well for me and i can run most games at about 65-75% of high settings with perhaps high 20 to mid 30 FPS and occasional chugs and whatnot. i figure, though, why not take it higher if i can? i've got a little extra cash so i might shell out for a new card if it will give a noticeable performance increase and let me nudge the graphics sliders a little higher.
currently i have:
athlon 64x2 4600+
2gb ddr ram
x1950xt 256mb
asus a8n-e motherboard with the n4 chipset
would upgrading to the 8800gt 512 confer much benefit? i'm willing to wait until later this year and just get a whole new computer then (i really want a core2duo) if it won't help much, but if what i have will last me a while longer after a new video card infusion then i'll stick it out.
You have a much better processor. If you are wanting better performance in games a new GPU will be your best bet. The only ones to look at are the ATI 3870, NV9600gt, and the 8800GT. The thing is that Nvidia and ATI will be releasing new cards next month. ATI will release its 4xxx series and NV will release the GTX260 and 280. The release date for those is June 16.
If I was in your situation I would buy an 8800GT though. Get one from a company that has a good warranty and step up. As far as I know EVGA and BFG are the only ones with step up programs. EVGA and XFX have the best warrantys.
My current rig is not up to playing Crysis either:
AMD Athlon 64 3500+
1 gig RAM (2 sticks of 512 DDR PC3200 200)
Asus A8N SLI Deluxe
Nvidia 8800 GTS 320
I was thinking about getting more RAM and a new processor, but figured I could pop in my older video card (I have a 7600 lying around somewhere) and use the GTS in a new build - maybe even that Dell that was linked.
But if I was to just upgrade this current setup, what would get me the best performance gain, a new proc or more memory?
@Yall : i'd say 2GB is the minimum you should really be running these days, but i think all you'd see is a bit less thrashing and loading and a smoother overall 'performance' from games and windows, rather than any kind of fps gain. i'd say you'd be better doing the mobo and proc at the same time, then slinging in 2GB of faster memory - if you can afford it, of course.
AMD Athlon 3500+
GeForce 7800GT 256MB ( Upgraded to a 8800GT 512MB)
2GB OCZ PC3200 Ram
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum Nforce4 Mobo
I was pretty happy until I bought a 24" monitor, which I felt required a better video card to handle the increased resolution. I then bought the above card when it came out and I am definitely happy with the improvement. I was debating if I should get a whole new system, but I decided to just upgrade the card first, so you might want to try that. Now I am keeping my eye open for a cheap s939 cpu upgrade. Would love to find someone selling a used FX or something like that.
For the money I'd spend on more RAM, a proc, and Mobo, I think I might be best served by grabbing that Dell (without keyboard and going with XP it was only about $500), or just doing a new build and not going top shelf. Something that will game well for a few years for little $$ which is exactly what my current rig does.
It just means I will continue the cycle of playing games about 1 year behind their release date, which if you factor in the dwindling costs of the recommended hardware and the fact that the games are cheaper (and not to mention PATCHED) this seems about the best route to take.
I didn't realize such bundles were available. I have a couple of cases and an OEM copy of XP. I will mostly likely just go this route. Thanks very much!
I love this place!
If you go quad core it comes with a 350w PSU, which can handle an 8800gt. I wouldn't push it above that to a GTX or 9800, though.
Dell is mostly for people looking for a whole new setup rather than recycling parts, as nearly all their best deals are based around monitors.
Damnit, what do I do? I've googled for hours for a fix, called the monitor company, and I'm still lost.
Some HDTVs have modes that eliminate overscanning, which is what's making your image spill off the screen. If your TV has 1:1 pixel mapping, try that.
If your TV doesn't have that, you might have to go through a 3rd-party utility like PowerStrip to set a custom resolution. Nvidia was pretty good about adjusting for overscan with the 7900 series, but has been dragging their feet on 8xxx since early 2007, and support for G92 on this issue is even more lacking than on G80.
So forewarning to people about the 8xxx series cards: don't buy one if you need to go through HDMI. (http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t34832.html)
Currently:
AMD Athlon 3000+
1GB DDR
80GB HDD
GeForce 4 MX
I just recently put a new heatsink in it to keep the processor from overheating. Something went wrong with the stock one and this is the only computer I have, so it needed to work. My work laptop (which I can take home and has become my "gaming" computer) can run WoW decently with occasional periods of severe slowdown, but NWN2 runs horribly unless everything is on the worst setting.
I'm thinking of getting:
500GB SATA HDD (~$100) - I do a lot of video editing, and I need more space. Plus my current hard drive is one of three old ones I had and the last one I have that hasn't failed. I need to get it replaced before it does fail.
1 or 2GB DDR - With video editing I need more RAM. I can get 1GB for ~$30 or 2GB for ~$60. I was looking at the OCZ value line?
New AGP 8x video card - I have NO CLUE what is decent out there for AGP. The "best" game I want to run is NWN2, but my budget is extremely limited on this. I'm fairly certain anything I buy will be better than the GF4MX POS I currently have. Maybe a max of $100 or so?
Thoughts?
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-cards,1805-5.html
those appear to be your AGP options.
??? How does a manufacturer make a card, but not have drivers for it?
Then again, double the memory and GDDR3 instead of GDDR2 is quite compelling, and if it's only $10 more, can't really complain.
And it's >$100 on Newegg (not counting shipping).. It's gotta come with drivers, so why not?
Thanks everyone! I guess I know what I'm doing now!
500GB HDD $100
2GB DDR $60
ATI Radeon X2600 XT $100
Completely revitalized computer! Woot.
$260 vs. $700+ (new mobo, proc, ram, hdd, vid card) for the cheapest rebuild I would accept isn't bad.
I mean I'm going with the 2600 XT, and it's less than $100, didn't mean greater than..
What TV do you have? Have you tried the VGA input? My TV overscans HDMI, but is Pixel for pixel over VGA when I set the computer to 1366x768 (native on my TV).
So, what card should I be looking at? I'm using a GeForce 8800 GTS 320mb myself, is it worth giving him that card and getting myself a 3870 or even a 9800 GTX? Any suggestions would be welcome
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten