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My 2 Cents or What to put in PA: Adventures Episode 2

r0ckarongr0ckarong Registered User regular
edited May 2008 in Penny Arcade Games
++ THIS IS A LONG READ / BEST SUITABLE FOR PRINTING AND THEN PUTTING ON THE PA TEAM DESK (EMAIL WORKS TOO) / THIS MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T FINISHED THE GAME YET BUT WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE ANYWAY ++

First off, LOVE the game. This is nowhere near the type of "this sucks" or "you guys screwed up" kind of post. I've read Penny Arcade a couple of times so far but I gotta admit it's not my favorite webcomic of all. When I heard they were making a game I wasn't too excited either, but then I heard that it would be on Linux. No big announcement or something they just regarded it as another viable platform.

Since I'm a Linux user and gamer at once and this people like me don't often get that attention and especially not from smallish projects I felt respected and wanted to give something back (read: moneyz). So there I was playing the demo and thought to myself: This isn't half bad, I like the fighting and the art style (especially when in motion) is really awesome. Everything worked on my Xubuntu box rightaway. Just the way every game should be for Linux too.

When I was done with the demo the story kept nagging in my head and after a few minutes I had charged my credit card so I could keep playing. Which brings me to my first point and the reason for this post: I had a great time with the game (finished it yesterday night) but there were some little things that were annoying and could be changed without lots of work to make future versions of the game even more enjoyable. The numbering will be running on but I will chuck in some categories to group things a bit. Off I go:

General Improvements:

1.) Detect the game status from the demo before unlocking the full version
I had to play through the entire segment of the first level again and couldn't skip the cutscenes, that was just annoying because I purchased the game to keep going in the story not start over (even the avatar gets deleted). Since the demo and the full version are the same files it shouldn't be too hard to have the player start in the full version with the progress of the demo (settings and all)

2.) Mouse sensitivity settings
There needs to be a setting for adjusting the mouse sensitivity. In a click based game like this it's extremely important to have perfect control and my mouse lagged severely and/or was significantly slower than on my desktop.

3.) Keymapping settings
Please give me a settings box that lets me adjust the keys, I use a Dvorak keyboard layout and for example during Tycho's special moves the keys are all over my keyboard. Just make a box "controls for special moves" and you can assign everything there (I bet some people HATE to mash the spacebar for Gabe).

Interaction:

4.) Display the player interaction dialog in the BIGGER part of the screen
The dialogs between the characters are displayed in a white panelbox at the bottom of the screen. That's the wrong way around. Most people look at their screens top down and it's extremely hard to follow long conversations when the window is just 1/3 of the screen size while the rest of it is wasted with a frozen 3D rendering. Just switch sides, freeze the 3D to the small segment where the panels are right now and vice versa. Don't tell me the artwork is too low-res to pull it off.

5.) Allow fast screen skipping
What I mean with that is for example the boardwalk level is horrible to navigate sometimes. You know that at half the way towards a new crossing there will be the "switch screens" arrow anyway so why can't I click that from a distance. I don't want to watch the characters walk toward a point where I know they would have warped anyway.

6.) Larger response area in the minigame screens
Just make the entire screen a "click anywhere to play again" field and another Button that I can click on to actually quit. That ball chucking game with the rings was annoying as hell because I had to start it that often and couldn't leave my hand in a comfortable position and instead had to move my mouse like 2 inches to reach the "Play Again" button. It's not within my comfort zone on the wrist (because the mouse sensitivity can't be adjusted ... and I'm jerking off to Ann-Claire) and I wouldn't be a proper geek if I let anything strain my second most important muscles.

7.) Warp points on the map
Right now I have to walk across the entire freaking map of say the boardwalk level, even though I KNOW there's nothing there anymore and I just want to get to the end. Just put a couple of placemarks or checkpoints around the maps so when the player reaches a certain screen there is a new dot on the specific map. Just give me a short list on the side of the polaroid of the area that says (for the neighborhood for example): 1. My house, 2. The old ? tree 3. Mime pope/Orange tree
I know exploring is a big part of the gameplay but let's be honest, I'd rather warp and play 2 enjoyable hours than play 3 fun hours with lots of grinding teeth and "come on you fucks. walk faster".

8.) Quick item pickup
Add a setting in options that lets the player choose between "Quick item pickup" or "Normal Info". Just make picking up stuff you use dozens of times easier. Right now when I break a box and I find something like Bandages which I've seen a hundred times already it still takes about 2 seconds to break free from that info screen. When you are just trying to stock up on supplies to go into a big fight or get from point A to point B quickly, this is incredibly annoying. I would suggest displaying an icon for a second that automatically disappears. It could get displayed like now but is then immediately minimized to about 20% the size of the popup right now with only item icon and background (no text), then stays on the side of the screen for a few moments (let me choose between all four) and then disappears. When the container is opened there should be a short popup with the mentioned transformation and 1 second delay after which the player can move again. All the item info should then also be stored in the inventory screen so if you really want to read something again it will be there. New and special items can still get the old info screen with the manual confirmation.

9.) Fix player wayfinding AI
Sometimes my character runs into walls and benches and just gets stuck. I then have to navigate to some place else to make him walk a few steps and then I can try again. This happens a lot on the boardwalk with the trashcans or the boxes there. You click a box and the character runs right into some static decoration object and then loses the focus.

10.) Speed up loading times with recent areas
I don't know if that's a Linux specific problem or it's because the data is compressed in archive files. I run a Pentium 4 3Ghz with 2Gigs of RAM so I can fit this game completely into my RAM like three times over and it still sometimes takes some 15-20 seconds to load a new area that I've just been to (e.g. Hobo Alley switching to Ann-Claires workshop and back). It's not unbearable but for a game that size I don't think it should actually be that long maybe I'm just impatient and that's completely normal. Her workshop is treated with the same priority as a full level. At least that's what I think is were that problem comes from. You guys don't want allocate too much memory so every place can only be in memory alone. But if you have to do the loading screens some of these crazy ass character animations from the credits would be awfully nice as loading bars, thank you ^^

11.) Music, Music, Music
It's not your main thing, I know but this game needs some more tunes. I was at the verge of tears when that incredible orchestra of barbershop instruments stopped after like 10 seconds. Really? This is an unlockable track? Why? Give me the other 3 minutes of that song, just make some weird shit up with the sounds you got -which were so awesome. Whats even more important is have some music in the dialog sections. Nothing big but a little ticky-tocky waltz in Ann-Claires room or a strange Jazz inspired randomness with the Pee Doctor would have enhanced the experience a hundred fold. Right now in the lab it's chirping grasshoppers ... uhm why? No room in the game should be without some music. All other sound effects can then be blended in. It's really spartanic right now. Just get some 30 second clips that loop. No conversation lasts more than 2 minutes and it will be a much more charismatic impression than four guys silently talking to each other. In fact that was some hilarious stuff when the crew makes fun of the mime pope while none of them is actually producing a sound himself. So gimme music, nobody cares for the voices but good music. The level music was pretty ok but more of it to mix it up wouldn't be bad.

Combat:

12.) Fixed enemy icons
Right now when an enemy is performing an attack and moves across the screen it's really hard to assign an attack to him. I don't know if this is a wanted gameplay feature but this is semi-turn based and I don't think it's much fun because there is enough going on on the screen already. I would suggest that when an enemy strikes, his original position marker (that transparent overlay thing beneath his feet) stays were it is and doesn't move with the enemy. Then the player could still attack "the position" of the enemy while the enemy itself is moving. I really hate to lose clicks or hit some other guy because a freaking mime just lassoed me.

13.) Keyboard selector for characters
I'm not quite sure how but I want to select between my party members via keyboard. In long battles the clicking gets really tiring after a while when you have to dish out so many attacks and items. Maybe make the number keys 1-3 respond to one member each and then assign buttons for item menu, basic attack, special attack (see I told you a key settings menu would be good). Support characters still activate through click. By the way: The animations for the last support characters special attack are phenomenal. Gotta love the view on the boardwalk and then ... well no spoilers.

14.) Attacks that can be cancelled
Sometimes you assign an attack to an enemy and then realize that the one right next to it has a weakness for your attack. Then you got to watch something go up in smoke against a resistance and wait for the next turn. I'd love to have a time window (don't know how long) in which I could cancel the attack for my selected character. Reassigning it against a different enemy is much more fun than losing a battle because of some missed clicks or poor decisions.

Right now when the attack is assigned correctly a "blade" or whatever depicting the type of occupation for the character (attack, item, special) appears, hiding the icons. Why not add one of these ring like things or other type of animation to that area instead of the Fist icon or the backpack (or whatever that thing is) to give the player a graphical confirmation for the choice and a time window to cancel. I don't really know if this will interrupt the flow of the battle but since there is already some kind of delay between the enemy actions and the time when a party member can act again that would probably work. Maybe if you assign an action make the icon show the amount of time until the action is started. That way you'd have perfect control over every move. Just gimme a ring that charges up like with the other icons. But keep the big icon view so you always know what you're doing.

Maybe the area that shows the assigned action could have a half-transparent icon for the action and in the foreground a big red round cancel button (that can also be mapped on the keyboard) and a ring around it that shows the time until the action is actually started (much like it's used now for when a new action can be selected).

15.) Block with mouse
This one is really a thing for me and I don't know if anyone agrees but since this is such a mouse biased game I want to be able to play it without the keyboard at all. I like to do things with my free hand (as you know Ann-Claire ... hot) when I navigate through town and then when a battle comes up I have to put my blunt down and press the space bar every now and again. That's not cool.

16.) Multibuff / -debuff
I want to assign a Defense bonus AND a strength bonus to Tycho while I heal him and dish out some damage. Although I don't know if that would be too good if the enemy used it against you.

Now I reached 16 improvements, to me as a nerd this is a sufficiently geeky number so I will stop now. Maybe I'll come up with some more stuff later but this is all stuff that I thought about as I watched the credits roll yesterday. When will Ep 2 be out, say? Can't wait to see what you guys do with this. I think will all the stuff I mentioned improved and lots of other community impressions you could actually be on your way to a really great action strategy game with some hilarious lines and fantastic noir phantasy graphics to boot. I really hope that dark grimey art is going to seep into the 3D some more. Right now the cut scenes still look like shockwave video but you could do so much with so good character posing and scripting in the game engine. With some more textures one of these animated scenes could soon run in the game engine fully animated.

Thanks for your great work and please keep it up. I'll try and read PA a lot more frequently now that I how bad ass Gabe and Tycho can be (but they're still nothing without Augusto)

Edit: Damn, it is 17 anyway:
17a.) Include "shadow" icons in inventory screen (office)
Semi-transparent shadowy copies of the icons in the inventory screen for combat items (and others?). Access the descriptions for them even if you don't currently carry one. Of course those should be unlocked with the progress so you can't e.g. see the orange if you never picked one up.


17b.) "Shadow" icons inventory (combat)
Transparent/very dark greyed out icons when you run out of certain items in the inventory in combat mode. Right now if you have no more ammo for an item it disappears completely. For me personally I find it harder to pick an item quickly when there are empty spaces in between, I tend to get "lost" in the columns when certain items are out, there are not much of them but if I have to switch between three of these every other second it gets confusing. Maybe the full grid (not yet unlocked/discovered items excluded) but with greyed or blacked out items would be better. This way I always look at the same grid but can see the colored spots where my stuff and it's always in the same place for my eyes.

Edit again: Ok we're legal now 18:
18.) Skip/Forward dialog with EVERYTHING
Click whatever button you like to continue (except for the choices of course). It's easier that way to read through some dialog especially if you want to take a drink or something. Do it like No More Heroes, you can skiy ANY cutscene at any time even if you've never seen it before. But by pressing the button for the first time it doesn't skip rightaway but shows a notification "skip". If the user does nothing it fades away again while everything continues normally. Next time you press it same warning again. I want to be able to skip through any part of the storyline at any time. When I'm finishing the game for the third time I don't care about anything but the fights anymore so just warn me and let me do it intentionally.

I realize that points 13 and 15 don't make much sense because they contradict each other but it's about the overall accessibility. I'd like to be able play the game both ways sometimes really competitive in the big fights against a five person barbershop quintet or sometimes casually against a couple of clowns with only the mouse.

You guessed it, Edit:
Just came up with a thought on point 14 - Cancel attacks. Updated 14.

EEEDIT:
I just remembered something reaally important. Why it's not here? I don't know. And we may never find out. But let's now come to something completely different:
19.) !!!!!!!!!! w00t
WHY WHERE THERE NO ARTWORKS FOR THE FINAL WEAPONS UPGRADE????
Sorry that was my twin brother who grows outside of my neck. What he tried to say was why in the final culmination in the heroes quest to salvation in their fight against Evil, brave Ann-Claire provided them with superbly powerful weapons. Forged from the tubes of Vacu'um a grueling place of breathtaking horror, the incredible L'uriné extraordinaire from the best street vendor in all of New Arcadia and lastly the soul of a man whose life was a joke never told.
AND WHY DON'T I GET TO SEE ALL THAT???
What my hot headed growthlike friend tries to say is that on the second stage of weapon upgrades you impressed us with illustrations of shining spikes for Gabe's jaw accelerators, a FMJ greetings card from hell for Tycho and after the golden comb of Thor we were rewarded with Neptunes personal weed chopper. And when all the engineering magic was done, only colored smoke rose from the lads arms but there was no F"§%( HAND DRAWN INCREDIBLE ARTWORK. Sorry that was me this time. There were no popups with icons for the new guns in them *frowny face*.

Edit: Updated 17, again.

Edit: Updated 14.

Edit: I was just posting again on the "$20 dollar issue" thread I and noticed something in my perception. I can't really tell how long the game was. I played in two to three swipes of a couple of hours. I don't even know if it was four or eight or even ten. I finished the game late at night with a really nagging urge to kill that silent god squid thingie. So here is no. 20

20.) Game time counter
Add a remark to the savegame that displays "overall game time" and maybe some screen in the office were I can check on stuff like that. Maybe even distinct levels as a whole in the story progression "Spent n hours on Hobo Alley". If I took a look at my final savegame and it said "11hours 30 minutes" I would have never said anything over in the 20 bucks thread. Right now I don't actually know and to me overall gameplay time is a big thing that I'm always happy to know when I'm done with the game.

Those who say they have nothing to hide, have not been asked the proper questions yet.

Be free, go Linux: www.ubuntu.com
r0ckarong on

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    chowder_monkeychowder_monkey Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    All very solid ideas. I agree with nearly all of them. I personally liked using the space bar to block, and can't complain about sensitivity since I was using a Cintiq to play, but you made some really good points about things to add to the gameplay.

    chowder_monkey on
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    Robert KhooRobert Khoo Registered User, ClubPA staff
    edited May 2008
    This is GREAT feedback man. We really appreciate your support, and this thread is definitely getting printed out.

    Thanks!

    Robert Khoo on
    Some guy.
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    r0ckarongr0ckarong Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    All very solid ideas. I agree with nearly all of them. I personally liked using the space bar to block, and can't complain about sensitivity since I was using a Cintiq to play, but you made some really good points about things to add to the gameplay.

    Thanks man. I never said it should replace the space bar but using it as an alternative would have been great.
    This is GREAT feedback man. We really appreciate your support, and this thread is definitely getting printed out.

    Thanks!

    Glad you see it that way, can't wait to find out what was improved and how it works out for the gameplay. If I can do anything to help you guys feel free to ask. I'd be glad to help you guys improve the game.

    r0ckarong on
    Those who say they have nothing to hide, have not been asked the proper questions yet.

    Be free, go Linux: www.ubuntu.com
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    NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I don't get how you managed to be really really helpful and completely creepy at the same time.

    NotASenator on
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    HH JoelHH Joel Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Yes: thanks for the great feedback! We love getting stuff like this....

    Joel

    HH Joel on
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    UltimajUltimaj Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    the spacebar mashing wasn't an issue for me until gabe's final attack haha. you really gotta hammer the shit out of the thing for that one.

    Ultimaj on
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    KrentzKrentz Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I second the #3 keymapping settings item. I am a Dvorak user too and it's a pretty big drawback in this game.

    Krentz on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    r0ckarongr0ckarong Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I don't get how you managed to be really really helpful and completely creepy at the same time.
    Practice ... and a lot of sugar cookies

    There's been tons of edits to this thing so far, sorry couldn't hold back. Maybe this'll stop soon.

    r0ckarong on
    Those who say they have nothing to hide, have not been asked the proper questions yet.

    Be free, go Linux: www.ubuntu.com
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    NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    r0ckarong wrote: »
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I don't get how you managed to be really really helpful and completely creepy at the same time.
    Practice ... and a lot of sugar cookies

    and a perverse desire for low-poly 3D models of underage animated girls.

    NotASenator on
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    RedeboRedebo Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I don't get how you managed to be really really helpful and completely creepy at the same time.

    It was the dual Ann-Claire references that pushed him over the creepy line ;)

    Redebo on
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    r0ckarongr0ckarong Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    It's not exactly the 3D model that I think looks good. It's the comic version that reminds me much more of other comic chicks. Doesn't look like a child at all. Other than that it was my semi-witty attempt on a preemptive answer to the obvious "so what do you do with you other hand then"-question but that apparently backfired as it was. The second one is really about the comic Ann-Claire another 5-6 years older. Of course you can't read my weird mind and I'm busy enough already with typing the useful stuff. But if that's really all that you have to criticize about my remarks then I'll gladly be the perv with a point.

    r0ckarong on
    Those who say they have nothing to hide, have not been asked the proper questions yet.

    Be free, go Linux: www.ubuntu.com
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    chowder_monkeychowder_monkey Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    r0ckarong wrote: »
    19.) !!!!!!!!!! w00t
    WHY WHERE THERE NO ARTWORKS FOR THE FINAL WEAPON UPGRADE????
    Sorry that was my twin brother who grows outside of my neck. What he tried to say was why in the final culmination in the heroes quest to salvation in their fight against Evil, brave Ann-Claire provided them with superbly powerful weapons. Forged from the tubes of Vacu'um a grueling place of breathtaking horror, the incredible L'uriné extraordinaire from the best street vendor in all of New Arcadia and lastly the soul of a man whose life was a joke never told.
    AND WHY DON'T I GET TO SEE ALL THAT???

    Think about it . . . Gabe's fist would be . . . Gabe's fists dripping with urine. Tycho's gun would be . . . Tycho's gun with special bullets that you couldn't see anyways. Your rake would be . . . your rake, but with a spirit inside! There just really isn't that much potential for art.

    chowder_monkey on
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    r0ckarongr0ckarong Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Think about it . . . Gabe's fist would be . . . Gabe's fists dripping with urine. Tycho's gun would be . . . Tycho's gun with special bullets that you couldn't see anyways. Your rake would be . . . your rake, but with a spirit inside! There just really isn't that much potential for art.

    I disagree, you could have shown me a crass close up of his hands all greenish sticky and with flies whirring around it and a *stench* bubble in 70 Batman style (think Ren & Stimpy gross out close-ups). Or a gun that has some glowing stuff on the clip drum and some spikes on the handle. And for the rake, you could have done so much with that. Into the trident you could have put a face of the mime pope and the background all in purple/black with lightning and a faint blood red glow around it. Much like a very evil wizards staff -lawn wizards staff. I could go on like this forever.

    r0ckarong on
    Those who say they have nothing to hide, have not been asked the proper questions yet.

    Be free, go Linux: www.ubuntu.com
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    PhoenixragePhoenixrage Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    For a 360 achievement, I'd be interesting to have a "get all characters to maxed hit meter" achievement. It's pretty tricky keeping that many blocks and counters in a row without being hit, I've only managed to get Gabe and Main to max with Tycho at around 25 before an attack slipped through to Gabe (d'oh).

    Phoenixrage on
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