I half-expect to be voted out tonight since I am acting like a dick, but fucking think before that happens.
They believe that an instant and invincible mason group of at least 6 people is around at all times. Those 6 double in size each day.
By day 2, the badguys (who have 2 kills) would have to kill each one for 5 days to get rid of them.
By that time, however, there would be 30 masons.
It's...it's like you can't read.
Not to mention Frosteey, who gained his role multiple days into the game. Which means any role can become static at any time. So your whole "but with less people means the badguys have an even higher chance of getting an item" tangent is BS, because that can be countered by giving a villager a static vigilante role and removing the item from play.
It's basic game balancing. Which enither DUE, nor Ulta has done.
You take a random variable that could potentially help both sides, favoring the village due to their size and you turn it into a non-random.
Automatically making it impossible for the badguys to achieve victory.
I don't even have to think you are lying for this to make sense.
I just keep getting more angry at your ignorance.
I've chosen to give LaOs the credit that he wouldn't make such a mistake
This is an insult.
I agree it is random. But giving the badguys access randomly to the good guys only means to defend themselves is unbalancing. It is also easy to see how I could be leery of the RNG because I've received an item 3 days in a row, the same one two days in a row. This could just as easily have been an evil getting the arrow two days in a row, which is unfair. I'm certainly not insulting LaOs, we just might have a difference of opinion of what is fair.
I'm not going to be as melodramatic as you two and say I will quit phalla if things don't turn out my way, but I will say this. I don't play phalla to win, I play it to perform good play on my own part. In the buffy phalla, I worked very hard and organized my side well, and I am proud of my actions. I count that as a win, even if my side wouldn't have won in the end. In the newbie phalla I played very subtley and plotted a successful course for a solo neutral win. Thats a win in my book, because it was good play. In the Pirates phalla I threw myself under the bus to facilitate Bogey's victory, that was a personal win, despite my death, because it was good play. In the superhero phalla in D&D, I feel like I played well and it was a win for me. If you recall, our team lost, but I disagreed fundamentally with the gms decisions, and didn't care for his result. So, if evil wins because they have access to the good guys items, I won't quit phalla, but I won't count it as a loss, because I played the game well, in the way that was most logical for me. I set my own goals for these games, and while a favorable overall ending is nice, whats more important to me is strong personal performance.
Not to mention Frosteey, who gained his role multiple days into the game. Which means any role can become static at any time. So your whole "but with less people means the badguys have an even higher chance of getting an item" tangent is BS, because that can be countered by giving a villager a static vigilante role and removing the item from play.
It's basic game balancing. Which enither DUE, nor Ulta has done.
Where did you get the information in your first paragraph.
Also, your last sentence is absolutely true. I still consider my self a novice, so you have every right to be critical. I just don't find your alternative convincing. I suspect the truth of the game mechanics is somewhere between our two interpretations. However, formalising calling item targets after vote keeps everything out in the open, and those who don't act in the villages interests can be spotted, so even if you don't trust the people with items, making their choices critqueable by multiple people makes sense to me.
TehSpectre, I really don't understand that, please forgive me for being dense, but can you please humour me by explaining your last post as if to a 5 year old child?
Who believes there's an instant and invisible group of masons and how do they double in size each day?
If you don't want to post your explanation, can you please PM me it? Thank you!
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I pointed out something that was important to me and I said I would stop using it forever to show that I know what I am talking about.
Isn't..... that.... the definition of melodramatic?
In any case, I'm sorry if you are getting angry over this. I'm just playing the game the best way I see, and I don't mean to offend or alienate anyone. I also hope you don't quit phalla.
I think I've been saying they are confirmed, but I have enough doubts about either interpretation of the game mechanics to not 100% trust them. I have a healthy skeptism of everyone, but as a villager, something I know myself to be, at least I can keep an eye and see if anyone uses their item for something specifically against the best interests of the village, and then dogpile them. Even if I don't trust anyone in the network, at least having all the information in one place will make it easier to spot discrepancies.
TehSpectre, I really don't understand that, please forgive me for being dense, but can you please humour me by explaining your last post as if to a 5 year old child?
Who believes there's an instant and invisible group of masons and how do they double in size each day?
If you don't want to post your explanation, can you please PM me it? Thank you!
A mason group is a group of people who know eachother are innocent. This group is normally 2 - 4 players who start a game networked and can only increase in size if a seer finds the group and works with them.
If what DUE and Ulta are saying is true, only villagers can get items. The automatically makes them a mason group because badguys cannot get items.
According to DUE there are 6 items. They change hands each day. Once again, I got a little mad, so I said "doubles in size" each day when I meant, has the potential to increase by 6 each day since the items change hands.
Day 1 you have 6 dudes with items. They are all villagers.
Day 2 you have a possible 12 players with items. They are all villagers.
Day 3 you have a possible 18 players with items. They are all villagers.
Ad nausem.
This makes it impossible for the badguys to win. Period.
I pointed out something that was important to me and I said I would stop using it forever to show that I know what I am talking about.
Isn't..... that.... the definition of melodramatic?
In any case, I'm sorry if you are getting angry over this. I'm just playing the game the best way I see, and I don't mean to offend or alienate anyone. I also hope you don't quit phalla.
I wont quit, because I am not wrong. That's the point. That's why I put it up there for all to see. Because I know I am not wrong.
TehSpectre, I really don't understand that, please forgive me for being dense, but can you please humour me by explaining your last post as if to a 5 year old child?
Who believes there's an instant and invisible group of masons and how do they double in size each day?
If you don't want to post your explanation, can you please PM me it? Thank you!
A mason group is a group of people who know eachother are innocent. This group is normally 2 - 4 players who start a game networked and can only increase in size if a seer finds the group and works with them.
If what DUE and Ulta are saying is true, only villagers can get items. The automatically makes them a mason group because badguys cannot get items.
According to DUE there are 6 items. They change hands each day. Once again, I got a little mad, so I said "doubles in size" each day when I meant, has the potential to increase by 6 each day since the items change hands.
Day 1 you have 6 dudes with items. They are all villagers.
Day 2 you have a possible 12 players with items. They are all villagers.
Day 3 you have a possible 18 players with items. They are all villagers.
Ad nausem.
This makes it impossible for the badguys to win. Period.
As I said, we haven't actually confirmed that many people.
On the other side of the coin though, what if badguys can get items?
Day 2 Mafia has 3 kills and vote manipulation, village has nothing.
Day 3 Mafia has 3 kills, village has unmanipulated vote
Day 4 mafia has 2 kills and vote manipulation, villagers get one kill and a tampered vote.
What are the chances of village victory there?
You might scoff and say RNG, but I know that I've received an item 3 days in a row, so its just as likely for a evil person to. I received the same item twice in a row, so same chance of an evil.
You seem to be overblowing the power of the items seering ability and underplaying the damage the mafia getting village items would do. As I said, the answer likely is somewhere between the two views. Regardless, however, putting the item holders together and having their targets listed in one place improves our chances of coordinating and spotting someone evil who has theoretically infiltrated.
I think the source of your anger is that you believe our theory leads to the mafia having no chance, but you don't show the same anger to the possibility that your theory could lead to an equally hopeless situation for the village. Why?
This is a good first phalla for you. I think it is best to be thrown into the deepend. Item Distribution! Morphing roles! Who is right about items! If you join a regular vanilla phalla you will be like, "A vigilante/seer/guardian/mason/mason vs. a 4 member mafia? Pfffft, [Pretend this is a youtube link to the scene in back to the future 2 where michael j fox plays the gun game and the kids say "you use your hands? Thats a baby toy!"]
I don't know how many of you have played Settlers of Catan, but I was taught how to play with the Cities and Knights expansion, so when I played vanilla Settlers for the first time, at the end I said it was a baby toy.
Oh, I'm in a ticket master queue - for 9 minutes, wait, no, 6, no, 7, no, 6 again. Grrrr.
Oh, its 5 minutes now. I can't have breakfast til I've booked the tickets - PC in attic, breakfast 2 floors down!
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Also, the reason a RNG item thing would work is that the moment the badguys begin to get a steady lead (be it through getting items more than once, or just luck) LaOs can have a villager become a permenant vigilante or a permenant vote manipulator and remove the items.
If people are getting items repeatedly there are two possible conclusions you can draw. Either everyone can get them and something etremely unlikely has happened, or the pool of people who can get them is smaller than everyone is assuming. If only five to ten people could get them that still leaves plenty of people who the village can't determine are good without seering. Even then you can't just take peoples claims of having items as truth. It would hardly break the game if the bad guys couldn't get those items.
As far as I can see it's more likely to be a smallish group of villagers who can get the items than everyone in the game. If that's the case (and there's no way you could know for certain that it wasn't unless you were a badguy and received an item) then it's in the badguys' best interests to remove those people from the game. As far as I can see the most likely scenario is that you're evil and you know that's the case but are arguing the everyone can get them line in your attempts to get the village to vote them off for you.
As far as I can see it's more likely to be a smallish group of villagers who can get the items than everyone in the game. If that's the case (and there's no way you could know for certain that it wasn't unless you were a badguy and received an item) then it's in the badguys' best interests to remove those people from the game. As far as I can see the most likely scenario is that you're evil and you know that's the case but are arguing the everyone can get them line in your attempts to get the village to vote them off for you.
This is pretty much the conclusion I'm thinking is most accurate.
The only reason I believe Ultra is innocent is because I was also given an item (although different) twice in a row. If that was not the case his receiving two items would have immediately set off an undeniable red flag.
I believe that both evilbob and tehspectre are both lying liars. Or TehSpectre is so caught up in the rituals and traditions of phalla that he has done irreparable harm to the village.
The only reason I believe Ultra is innocent is because I was also given an item (although different) twice in a row. If that was not the case his receiving two items would have immediately set off an undeniable red flag.
I believe that both evilbob and tehspectre are both lying liars. Or TehSpectre is so caught up in the rituals and traditions of phalla that he has done irreparable harm to the village.
Man, see that is information I needed.
If only a small subset of players get item repeatedly, I can see it working.
But no, I only had Ultarune to go on who seemed to be a different bird than you.
And I didn't do nearly as much harm to the village than you guys have. =/
!retract Ultarune and !vote Evilbob
I mean really, the dude sent a PM to DUE telling him that I had items or something? Which was a lie and I don't see what reason he would have for doing it.
You guys can vote me if you want, all I have done this game is try to help the village.
Dear lord that is the biggest piece of bullshit ever. The shit about me telling due you had items, not the lip piercing thing. The piercing thing is cool.
Can DUE confirm one way or the other whether he received a PM from evilbob. On the face it, that seems like a stupid idea, but I'm sure there's a lot of stuff happening in private we aren't seeing.
I still think Elki/Richy are our best bets, but I'm willing to defer that for a bit to follow leads.
So three people have claims and one or maybe more of them are lying. Now there's no way to resolve the confusion that's been caused without wasting votes. DUE, is at the center I guess, but until things get clarified I will !vote evilbob.
Posts
They believe that an instant and invincible mason group of at least 6 people is around at all times. Those 6 double in size each day.
By day 2, the badguys (who have 2 kills) would have to kill each one for 5 days to get rid of them.
By that time, however, there would be 30 masons.
It's...it's like you can't read.
Not to mention Frosteey, who gained his role multiple days into the game. Which means any role can become static at any time. So your whole "but with less people means the badguys have an even higher chance of getting an item" tangent is BS, because that can be countered by giving a villager a static vigilante role and removing the item from play.
It's basic game balancing. Which enither DUE, nor Ulta has done.
I agree it is random. But giving the badguys access randomly to the good guys only means to defend themselves is unbalancing. It is also easy to see how I could be leery of the RNG because I've received an item 3 days in a row, the same one two days in a row. This could just as easily have been an evil getting the arrow two days in a row, which is unfair. I'm certainly not insulting LaOs, we just might have a difference of opinion of what is fair.
I'm not going to be as melodramatic as you two and say I will quit phalla if things don't turn out my way, but I will say this. I don't play phalla to win, I play it to perform good play on my own part. In the buffy phalla, I worked very hard and organized my side well, and I am proud of my actions. I count that as a win, even if my side wouldn't have won in the end. In the newbie phalla I played very subtley and plotted a successful course for a solo neutral win. Thats a win in my book, because it was good play. In the Pirates phalla I threw myself under the bus to facilitate Bogey's victory, that was a personal win, despite my death, because it was good play. In the superhero phalla in D&D, I feel like I played well and it was a win for me. If you recall, our team lost, but I disagreed fundamentally with the gms decisions, and didn't care for his result. So, if evil wins because they have access to the good guys items, I won't quit phalla, but I won't count it as a loss, because I played the game well, in the way that was most logical for me. I set my own goals for these games, and while a favorable overall ending is nice, whats more important to me is strong personal performance.
I pointed out something that was important to me and I said I would stop using it forever to show that I know what I am talking about.
I wouldn't do it unless I was absolutely sure.
Where did you get the information in your first paragraph.
Also, your last sentence is absolutely true. I still consider my self a novice, so you have every right to be critical. I just don't find your alternative convincing. I suspect the truth of the game mechanics is somewhere between our two interpretations. However, formalising calling item targets after vote keeps everything out in the open, and those who don't act in the villages interests can be spotted, so even if you don't trust the people with items, making their choices critqueable by multiple people makes sense to me.
Who believes there's an instant and invisible group of masons and how do they double in size each day?
If you don't want to post your explanation, can you please PM me it? Thank you!
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
They're basically the same type of player.
I'm rageful and not thinking at my best.
To clarify: Shamus said he was a villager until day 3, at which time he gained a new role.
Isn't..... that.... the definition of melodramatic?
In any case, I'm sorry if you are getting angry over this. I'm just playing the game the best way I see, and I don't mean to offend or alienate anyone. I also hope you don't quit phalla.
A mason group is a group of people who know eachother are innocent. This group is normally 2 - 4 players who start a game networked and can only increase in size if a seer finds the group and works with them.
If what DUE and Ulta are saying is true, only villagers can get items. The automatically makes them a mason group because badguys cannot get items.
According to DUE there are 6 items. They change hands each day. Once again, I got a little mad, so I said "doubles in size" each day when I meant, has the potential to increase by 6 each day since the items change hands.
Day 1 you have 6 dudes with items. They are all villagers.
Day 2 you have a possible 12 players with items. They are all villagers.
Day 3 you have a possible 18 players with items. They are all villagers.
Ad nausem.
This makes it impossible for the badguys to win. Period.
I wont quit, because I am not wrong. That's the point. That's why I put it up there for all to see. Because I know I am not wrong.
I will be back in an hour or two.
As I said, we haven't actually confirmed that many people.
On the other side of the coin though, what if badguys can get items?
Day 2 Mafia has 3 kills and vote manipulation, village has nothing.
Day 3 Mafia has 3 kills, village has unmanipulated vote
Day 4 mafia has 2 kills and vote manipulation, villagers get one kill and a tampered vote.
What are the chances of village victory there?
You might scoff and say RNG, but I know that I've received an item 3 days in a row, so its just as likely for a evil person to. I received the same item twice in a row, so same chance of an evil.
You seem to be overblowing the power of the items seering ability and underplaying the damage the mafia getting village items would do. As I said, the answer likely is somewhere between the two views. Regardless, however, putting the item holders together and having their targets listed in one place improves our chances of coordinating and spotting someone evil who has theoretically infiltrated.
I think the source of your anger is that you believe our theory leads to the mafia having no chance, but you don't show the same anger to the possibility that your theory could lead to an equally hopeless situation for the village. Why?
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
I don't know how many of you have played Settlers of Catan, but I was taught how to play with the Cities and Knights expansion, so when I played vanilla Settlers for the first time, at the end I said it was a baby toy.
That is depressing, the back to the future movies should be mandatory viewing.
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
Oh, its 5 minutes now. I can't have breakfast til I've booked the tickets - PC in attic, breakfast 2 floors down!
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
You're lucky I am so dead set on my Ulta vote, or I'd lay into you for lying about me to DUE.
You know, rebalancing the game.
Not worth it. Some of you are beyond help.
I just hope that I get a damned arrow so I can forcefully help the village instead of being argued against.
1) it's not an item at all.
or
2) items are not given out randomly.
I dunno, RNG overuse hasn't been LaOs's style so far. This is weird.
This is pretty much the conclusion I'm thinking is most accurate.
I believe that both evilbob and tehspectre are both lying liars. Or TehSpectre is so caught up in the rituals and traditions of phalla that he has done irreparable harm to the village.
If only a small subset of players get item repeatedly, I can see it working.
But no, I only had Ultarune to go on who seemed to be a different bird than you.
And I didn't do nearly as much harm to the village than you guys have. =/
!retract Ultarune and !vote Evilbob
I mean really, the dude sent a PM to DUE telling him that I had items or something? Which was a lie and I don't see what reason he would have for doing it.
You guys can vote me if you want, all I have done this game is try to help the village.
I can get my lip pierced without being fired.
Cloud nine.
I half-expect him to lie so he can conveniently have me killed.
For all I know he was lying to me, bob, but he told me you were PMing him stuff about me.
I don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly.
I still think Elki/Richy are our best bets, but I'm willing to defer that for a bit to follow leads.
I'm stuck between 2 people who have been against my ideas most of the game and now this happens.