Specifically, I'm looking at Elki and richy. Both are subtle, manipulative players. Both have been in the thread a lot and post quite a bit, but they never seem to be pushing any ideas of their own (though they'll poke at other people's). Always here but never making an impression is classic bad guy trying to steer the group behavior, and Elki sticks out in my mind as doing this a lot.
Just because I don't have a plan so far doesn't mean I shouldn't point out the flaws in DUE's "all the specials contact me, statistically odds are I'm a good guy, trust me" plan. I won't sit idly by and let the village be misled while I figure out a plan to save it.
Like I said, I feel like an ass calling people on this, because it basically makes the game suck if you get good at it, but I stand by my reasoning. You're good enough that you should either be taking positive action (nominating someone we should go after, making a case, putting together a strategy, something) or I don't think you're on our side.
Anyone can poke apart holes in a poorly thought out plan, and it doesn't cost you anything to do it if you're a baddy. You get to nudge the conversation, without giving the village anything useful. No stances that anyone can hold you to, no having to account for being wrong, and all with the benefit of being active, visible, and appearing helpful.
Of course, the reason this sucks is it paints a huge target on you. But like I said, unless we get something solid I think this is the line of reasoning we need to follow.
I'm good enough (and have been a monster enough times) to know how good uninformed strategies are. At best they can get you killed by a monster to get the village to go after the people you've been targeting. I don't want to turn myself into a manufactured lead.
I think the PMs are all out. Let me know if you didn't get something you think you were supposed to or got something you weren't supposed to.
Also, activity notices have been sent out. TheLawinator has requested to be replaced and I am working on that right now. Other recipients of the notice are close to being replaced/dropped.
Also, what can we do about possibly getting some of the alternates in play? I need to check, but there are people on the player list I don't think I've seen a single post from.
edit: aaaaaand too slow
I'm going to hit the sack and see how this all looks in the morning.
At this point I would hope that there is some faith in me. Those who received items last night all contacted me except for one (possibly two) individuals. So far the game has indicated that no baddies are picking up items so I believe that this calculated risk is a much better alternative to the rate we are currently being offed. I survived the night through the collaboration of the item holders and I predicted a kill through the collaboration of the item holders. Obviously the more villagers that receive items the closer we are to weeding out who is against us. I'll reiterate, if you have an item please contact me so that our efforts can be collaborated without risking any needless lives. Tonight was a shame and I would hope to fair better after this event.
I think that's it for me tonight.
Edit: TS I have the same concern about the item landing in his hands twice.
What point is there in killing him for saving his own skin?
that doesn't get us anywhere
Right now he's the most suspicious player there is. Last night saved Durax by getting FCC (a villager) killed, and tonight he saved himself by getting Aldo (a villager) killed. Yes I realised his alleged powder power is limited to switching the victim of a near-tie vote, but that still makes him responsible for two villager deaths. And besides, we only have his word that he's randomly been assigned the same item twice in a row, and the odds against that happening are pretty strongly against.
!Ultarune
And now I'm going to bed. Hopefully a more solid lead will turn up tomorrow.
I absolutely agree that me being given the powder twice is suspicious. Thanks a lot LaOs for that, and for pointing out how unlikely it is in your pm, that makes me feel a lot better, heh. However, this proves my point about how unlikely it is for evils to be able to receive items. What would happen if the an evil received the arrow 2-3 nights in a row, does that sound fair? Anyway, as it stands, durax is the person who contacted me with the death seer ability and his description of his item matches the pm I just received from the monkey giving me the death seer item today. This accuracy leads me to believe that durax is innocent (by my theory of items being only for villagers, a controversial theory), and stew_stick is as well since he is the first person to name the roomie. If you guys kill me, if no evil is killed that night and I therefore show up as a villager definitively, please take these words to be true.
Thankfully, LaOs isn't so sadistic to give me the powder 3 days in a row, so if anyone has any ideas about who should be deathseered, I'm all ears.
Also, Due, did you receive an item yesterday? With me receiving an item 3 days in a row, is it possibile that there are special villagers, but the items are shuffled amongst them every night, or am I just an abberation of RNG? If I am, and I'm killed, pay attention to that. Its further proof that LaOs wouldn't allow the items to fall into the hands of evil through such an ineffectual system.
This accuracy leads me to believe that durax is innocent (by my theory of items being only for villagers, a controversial theory
Did you just ignore the LaOs quote at the top of the page?
Also, DUE, at least explain why you are voting for me. -.-
You really don't see how others could interpet that quote? I'm giving LaOs enough credit not to let items fall into evil people's hands because it would break the game, evidenced by me receiving items 3 nights in a row despite the small number of items and high number of players.
Also, Due, did you receive an item yesterday? With me receiving an item 3 days in a row, is it possibile that there are special villagers, but the items are shuffled amongst them every night, or am I just an abberation of RNG? If I am, and I'm killed, pay attention to that. Its further proof that LaOs wouldn't allow the items to fall into the hands of evil through such an ineffectual system.
If you did receive yet another item, then this seems most likely. Assuming you did receive another item.
DUE you're the item-network coordinator. Are the same people receiving them over and over, just shuffled around?
I don't know if you are joking, but I respect you as a player and I've been very courteous in my debate with you. We both have our outlook, and I admit that you have some valid points, we just disagree on the logical outcome of those points. However, if you honestly think that LaOs' quote can only be interpreted to support your position, I'm prepared to call that single facet of your argument objectively wrong.
EditL This is directed at Teh Spectre, not Red Bird.
I don't know if you are joking, but I respect you as a player and I've been very courteous in my debate with you. We both have our outlook, and I admit that you have some valid points, we just disagree on the logical outcome of those points. However, if you honestly think that LaOs' quote can only be interpreted to support your position, I'm prepared to call that single facet of your argument objectively wrong.
EditL This is directed at Teh Spectre, not Red Bird.
I don't know if you are joking, but I respect you as a player and I've been very courteous in my debate with you. We both have our outlook, and I admit that you have some valid points, we just disagree on the logical outcome of those points. However, if you honestly think that LaOs' quote can only be interpreted to support your position, I'm prepared to call that single facet of your argument objectively wrong.
EditL This is directed at Teh Spectre, not Red Bird.
I had a PM from medopine at 4:01 am (immediately after the end of vote, UK time), confirming their role as a villager who had been given an item on Day 2, including what that item was, in an attempt to build trust and team. It was a 1 day only item. As only villagers (and an acolyte) were killed, I believe Medopine was a villager. Shame its too late.
LewieP's Mummy on
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Also, I didn't change the vote result with the powder. Aldo had more votes than me, and I used the powder because the monkey said there would be consequences if I didn't, and I don't want to piss off the monkey.
The Shrine Officers, weary of the line the village may be walking, can only shake their heads while they wait for the tally to be read. They fear what may happen if the vote is too close and the mob grows unruly, but their fears appear to be for naught as the official results show that Aldo has won the vote by a much larger than expected margin.
Well you can't really blame me for treating the facts I state as true, can you? Does everyone who play phalla really add an addenum to their ideas (Note: only believe this if you think I am telling the truth)? I think its a given. Anyway, someone else has the powder this day, so they can confirm the consequences, if they are willing to reveal. Also, if you are evil TehSpectre and win this thing, I am going to slow clap you so hard. I don't know why some of these people are believing your arguments when I can't see the logic holding them up, but I'll be damned that they are.
To make a new point, I'm leaning towards the theory put forth earlier, I can't remember by who, that the items do something different in evil's hands. But then how could they confirm themselves if it does something different?
Well, if you put yourself in my shoes, you can see where I'm coming from. If you can, please enter a temporary state of mind where you give me the benefit of the doubt. I am Ultarune. I am a villager because thats what my role pm tells me. I have received items 3 nights in a row, the same item 2 nights in a row. As a villager, I am presented with the very scary notion that if LaOs were to actually make the items available to the bad guys, a bad guy could have just as easily received an item 3 days in a row as I. Statisically, they are just as likely to receive the arrow, a vig kill, two nights in a row, instead of the powder like i did. Faced with this scary information, I've chosen to give LaOs the credit that he wouldn't make such a mistake, and I'm treating anyone with an item they can confirm as a villager. The other prospect makes the villages chances at success so bleak its not even worth considering.
Now lets step out of the state of mind of you giving me the benefit of the doubt. You can think I'm lieing about the whole thing, fine, but, if you look through the facts as I have seen them, you can easily understand how I would come to my conclusion.
Posts
So we're pretty fucked on the shamus thing then.
Though this all still leaves the question of what Syl's more active role entails.
I'm good enough (and have been a monster enough times) to know how good uninformed strategies are. At best they can get you killed by a monster to get the village to go after the people you've been targeting. I don't want to turn myself into a manufactured lead.
WHen he comes back in here and starts with the retarded "items only go to villagers" speel, he will actively hold us back while we debate another day.
Not to mention the "random" item going to him more than once. That is super-unlikely.
I don't buy it and he has been hurting us since day 1.
Also, activity notices have been sent out. TheLawinator has requested to be replaced and I am working on that right now. Other recipients of the notice are close to being replaced/dropped.
edit: aaaaaand too slow
I'm going to hit the sack and see how this all looks in the morning.
I think that's it for me tonight.
Edit: TS I have the same concern about the item landing in his hands twice.
Yes.
Sorry about that.
Don't make me do it. These work computers are sloooow.
!Ultarune
And now I'm going to bed. Hopefully a more solid lead will turn up tomorrow.
Before this, I had been saying that LaOs was too smart to make items only go to villagers.
Funny how this was posted shortly after, and by Aldo no less. (Who was against Ultarune)
oooOOOoooooOOOOOooo
I can't believe I forgot to do that.
OOOOooooOOOOooooooOO
Thankfully, LaOs isn't so sadistic to give me the powder 3 days in a row, so if anyone has any ideas about who should be deathseered, I'm all ears.
Also, DUE, at least explain why you are voting for me. -.-
You really don't see how others could interpet that quote? I'm giving LaOs enough credit not to let items fall into evil people's hands because it would break the game, evidenced by me receiving items 3 nights in a row despite the small number of items and high number of players.
If you did receive yet another item, then this seems most likely. Assuming you did receive another item.
DUE you're the item-network coordinator. Are the same people receiving them over and over, just shuffled around?
EditL This is directed at Teh Spectre, not Red Bird.
Hate.
LOVE
ad. infinitum
Man, phallas are hard to play with this time difference.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
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"The power of the weirdness compels me."
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
Bold/underline emphasis mine.
Driving me crazy.
6 items a day = 30 villager network by day 5.
Retarded.
Also, I rarely ever live to the end of these things anymore. I'm sure I will be vigged/mudered sooner or later, if I'm not voted out beforehand.
Mafia with 3 kills a day and vote manipulation abilities while village has zero kills.
Retarded
But we are just arguing in circles, we both feel that the other persons interpretations of game mechanics would lead to an irrevocably broken game.
I could break the rules and post this in CF and everyone would agree. No doubt in my mind. At all.
If the Mafia got a bonus vig 1 night it wouldn't be gamebreaking.
In almost every case the 2 vote manip ability is useless.
RNG = RANDOM number generator
You act as if I am saying the mafia would get the items every round.
You're being stupid.
There is no question. There is no debate.
Now lets step out of the state of mind of you giving me the benefit of the doubt. You can think I'm lieing about the whole thing, fine, but, if you look through the facts as I have seen them, you can easily understand how I would come to my conclusion.
Alternatively. I will quit phalla forever if the bad guys can be randomly given items.
You take a random variable that could potentially help both sides, favoring the village due to their size and you turn it into a non-random.
Automatically making it impossible for the badguys to achieve victory.
I don't even have to think you are lying for this to make sense.
I just keep getting more angry at your ignorance.
This is an insult.