Yeah, it really is that bad regarding shamans. We were stuck on the Twins for a bit because we failed their "did you recruit active shamans and did they log on tonight" test. After much trouble we finally manage to recruit 2 undergeared shamans and down the twins go. Said shamans were already walking around in BT/Hyjal and Sunwell loot a week later.
M'uru now. Should i be scared? I think i should be.
Umm we spent three hours on him on Sunday but we're still working on phase 0 (recruit enough shamans to beat the enrage timer, most nights we have one). There's about five of us who can consistently pull off 2k-ish but just as many who are not putting out the DPS they need to be at this level. For example, one of the mages is AM spam spec. She insists this is still viable. She is consistently several hundred DPS lower than what she was doing last week as fire, and this is not even considering <20% mage hax. The mind, it boggles. Healing and tanking and positioning seems to have been sorted out at least. One of the RLs moans every time we work on Brutallus but don't hit the enrage, saying it's not progress and we're wasting our time. But he's a hunter. He is pretty much oblivious to the fact that the fight is on the healers and tanks as much if not more than the DPS. We... stand there and DPS hard. They actually have to THINK.
riz on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited June 2008
that fight doesn't seem like it would be so much on the tanks, you seem to just mindlessly pump out as much threat as you can. there's no tricky movement or anything, and most tanks have their threat rotations for max threat built into muscle memory
healers look like they probably have to work hard though
Well no they have to know exactly when to taunt between abilities and save their Oh Shit trinkets for Stomp and get positioning right. Definitely MORE on the healers but I would say the tanks have to pay more attention than DPS does.
It seems pointless for a guild full of rerolls just hitting 60-61ish to spend effort and time progressing into 25 mans, as gearing up in kara/ZA/heroics and spending the badges would basically gear the guild up to the BT level without wasting mats, etc etc on SSC/TK/Hyjal.
But some people (who are btw, not even level 50 yet) seem to be adamant about them.
Not even 10 of us who rerolled from Horde Senjin to Windrunner alliance.
Problem is, I don't see many guilds who are just going to plan to stick to 10 mans until the expansion. They are all pushing the progression angle, even guilds who havent cleared Kara yet.
+ 5 to resisting random acts of stupidity.
+ 5 to grey hair detection.
+ 1 to your chance of dating a younger woman without attracting the attention of Dateline.
It seems pointless for a guild full of rerolls just hitting 60-61ish to spend effort and time progressing into 25 mans, as gearing up in kara/ZA/heroics and spending the badges would basically gear the guild up to the BT level without wasting mats, etc etc on SSC/TK/Hyjal.
But some people (who are btw, not even level 50 yet) seem to be adamant about them.
Not even 10 of us who rerolled from Horde Senjin to Windrunner alliance.
Problem is, I don't see many guilds who are just going to plan to stick to 10 mans until the expansion. They are all pushing the progression angle, even guilds who havent cleared Kara yet.
Odd.
For me (I'm not a re-roll) -- I really want to SEE the content. I know the gear is going to be obsolete & that I'll never get into Sunwell and it takes a lot of time and blah blah blah. But, dangit, I want to play this game to it's fullest. I've spent tons of time getting my two toons decked out with what I have available and reading forums/etc to make sure I am doing everything possible to play my toon with the highest skill. But, even though there are like 500 people in my guild, there are maybe 10 that aren't certifiably brain dead.
I think thats the standard practise, beware of any guild that gets above about 100 members, thats about the time when you can say for certain that there are absolutely no standards in the guild and then everybody of merit has already fled the sinking ship, put more than 100 players together in a guild and its less about raiding and more about creating barrens chat in green.
It seems pointless for a guild full of rerolls just hitting 60-61ish to spend effort and time progressing into 25 mans, as gearing up in kara/ZA/heroics and spending the badges would basically gear the guild up to the BT level without wasting mats, etc etc on SSC/TK/Hyjal.
But some people (who are btw, not even level 50 yet) seem to be adamant about them.
Not even 10 of us who rerolled from Horde Senjin to Windrunner alliance.
Problem is, I don't see many guilds who are just going to plan to stick to 10 mans until the expansion. They are all pushing the progression angle, even guilds who havent cleared Kara yet.
Odd.
For me (I'm not a re-roll) -- I really want to SEE the content. I know the gear is going to be obsolete & that I'll never get into Sunwell and it takes a lot of time and blah blah blah. But, dangit, I want to play this game to it's fullest. I've spent tons of time getting my two toons decked out with what I have available and reading forums/etc to make sure I am doing everything possible to play my toon with the highest skill. But, even though there are like 500 people in my guild, there are maybe 10 that aren't certifiably brain dead.
No you don't
SSC is more of the same goddamn naga you've always seen and rather boring or irritating bosses (leotheras and vashj I consider exceptions, but the former is a mega retard check and the latter is just plain hard)
And TK is a horrible horrible abortion of an instance (OH GOD THE VR TRASH OH GOD)
I think thats the standard practise, beware of any guild that gets above about 100 members, thats about the time when you can say for certain that there are absolutely no standards in the guild and then everybody of merit has already fled the sinking ship, put more than 100 players together in a guild and its less about raiding and more about creating barrens chat in green.
Today, on Generalization Theater...
But seriously, my guild is over 100 individual accounts. About 1/3-1/2 at a given time are raiders and alternates, and the rest are friends, family and ex-raiders. They clean house every few months, so these are mostly active people, not 40 active accounts and 60 that have been offline for 8 months.
I'd put the cutoff for 'lawlzergguild' over 150-250 accounts, or even higher, but it really just depends on the attitude and focus of the guild. I'm sure somewhere there's a guild with over 500 members running a half dozen or more T6 level groups, and 25 person guilds that are nothing but "everyone invite everyone and see who stays" zergs. It's not entirely about the size, but what those people do that defines them.
And now I'm paraphrasing Batman Begins accidentally. I guess I know what I'll be watching during the raid tonight.
Also, I'll second the above. I respect groups that want to push into T5/T6, but honestly the time and effort are massive compared to just farming up Karazhan once a week in 3-4 hours and earning a new piece of T6 level gear per month or so (okay, with a few heroics along the way).
It's basically "lolwelfareepics pve edition", and will put you in damned fine gear by the time the expansion comes out without a lot of excess time, effort and drama.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Ok, raiding high end bosses may suck. It may be painful and the rewards are incommensurate with the efforts. But, it's the game I play. Are you telling me that you didn't enjoy the first time you downed SSC bosss? Or that you don't enjoy owning bosses. I'm sure some of the bosses suck -- but I want to be able to make that decision on my own, not by reading everyone else's forum posts.
Yeah yeah, I'm naieve and all that -- but I hit 60 the day before TBC came out, so I never saw any of that content. Now, after a couple month hiatus, I'm at 70 and would love to actually see some of the end-game content. Otherwise, I'm going to be 80 and never have seen end game content more than Mags/Gruul.
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Ok, raiding high end bosses may suck. It may be painful and the rewards are incommensurate with the efforts. But, it's the game I play. Are you telling me that you didn't enjoy the first time you downed SSC bosss? Or that you don't enjoy owning bosses. I'm sure some of the bosses suck -- but I want to be able to make that decision on my own, not by reading everyone else's forum posts.
Yeah yeah, I'm naieve and all that -- but I hit 60 the day before TBC came out, so I never saw any of that content. Now, after a couple month hiatus, I'm at 70 and would love to actually see some of the end-game content. Otherwise, I'm going to be 80 and never have seen end game content more than Mags/Gruul.
It's worth seeing them once I think. But that's about it. SSC suffers from a lot of the same design issues that MC did. TK wasn't as bad but only Kael's fight is interesting.
SSC is more of the same goddamn naga you've always seen and rather boring or irritating bosses (leotheras and vashj I consider exceptions, but the former is a mega retard check and the latter is just plain hard)
And TK is a horrible horrible abortion of an instance (OH GOD THE VR TRASH OH GOD)
Eh, I don't hate any of the SSC bosses we've done (lurker, leo, tidewalker), but I'm doing them as ranged dps.
TK wouldn't be so bad if we hadn't lost all but 1 of our warlocks We have people who would have to switch in alt warlocks for the VR trash pulls.
You know LEEEERRROOOOYYYY JEEEENNKIIIIINSSSS -- yeah, I don't get it -- never been there.
You know the whole "watch the whelps /eggs" joke -- don't get it -- never been there.
You know when you talk about the water tombs on Tidewalker -- don't get it -- never been there.
etc etc etc.
The point is, I'm a WoW nerd, but I don't understand any references to anything more than "click the damn cubes" on Mags.
planetes42 on
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
You know LEEEERRROOOOYYYY JEEEENNKIIIIINSSSS -- yeah, I don't get it -- never been there.
You know the whole "watch the whelps /eggs" joke -- don't get it -- never been there.
You know when you talk about the water tombs on Tidewalker -- don't get it -- never been there.
etc etc etc.
The point is, I'm a WoW nerd, but I don't understand any references to anything more than "click the damn cubes" on Mags.
The whelps/eggs joke is in the same room as the Leroy Jenkins joke.
Ok, so I'm going to start leveling my lvl6 shaman when I get home. If you guys are telling the truth, I should be recruited sometime by the end of the night in anticipation of me hitting 70.
It seems pointless for a guild full of rerolls just hitting 60-61ish to spend effort and time progressing into 25 mans, as gearing up in kara/ZA/heroics and spending the badges would basically gear the guild up to the BT level without wasting mats, etc etc on SSC/TK/Hyjal.
But some people (who are btw, not even level 50 yet) seem to be adamant about them.
Not even 10 of us who rerolled from Horde Senjin to Windrunner alliance.
Problem is, I don't see many guilds who are just going to plan to stick to 10 mans until the expansion. They are all pushing the progression angle, even guilds who havent cleared Kara yet.
Odd.
For me (I'm not a re-roll) -- I really want to SEE the content. I know the gear is going to be obsolete & that I'll never get into Sunwell and it takes a lot of time and blah blah blah. But, dangit, I want to play this game to it's fullest. I've spent tons of time getting my two toons decked out with what I have available and reading forums/etc to make sure I am doing everything possible to play my toon with the highest skill. But, even though there are like 500 people in my guild, there are maybe 10 that aren't certifiably brain dead.
Dude, don't let them get you down. This is exactly the attitude one should have about raiding. SSC might be a watery hell after you've been running it for months on end or if your guild is too terribad to kill Vashj after a couple weeks of practice, but raiding isn't just about skipping everything possible to jump into the current "end" dungeon. The bosses in SSC/TK are mostly worth seeing. I had fun learning them. Vashj is EASILY one of my favorite fights in the game. Leotheras is a sexy bitch.
I really never understand the mentality of "let's get our badge gear and skip two or three entire instances worth of content." Badge gear is good for making that content easier, making people not have to all wear tailoring gear or farm SSC for months to be able to move on to Hyjal, but it isn't meant to effectively delete tier 5 instances from the game.
I'm not paying dues or taking my turn in the fraternity initiation, I'm playing a game. I'd just assume put off serious progression until the expansion, since realisticly, the 8 of us are not going to flesh out a guild capable of doing anything worthwhile in 25 mans before it's out. Talking about people with zero raid experience past Gruul's here.
Speaking from the perspective of a guild that was on the verge of finishing T5 when the T6 attunements were lifted... I will happily say that getting out of those shitholes was well worth it. The bosses aren't all that horrible, and probably worth doing once or twice for the entertainment factor, but the trash is absolutely absymal in T5.
Don't have enough warlocks? Welcome to horrible rape demon town leading up to void reaver! Don't have the pulls up to leotheras perfectly marked and tanked? Whoops, half your raid is in the water. Pulled two packs? Time to remove your pants. Someone in your raid has less than 9k hp? Get used to rezzing them, half the trash packs will randomly deal 10k damage to someone in the raid instantly.
We were doing the BT trash from supremus to akama, and we would routinely pull two packs at once and have no problems whatsoever with them, that's just not something that happens in T5.
Posts
M'uru now. Should i be scared? I think i should be.
Umm we spent three hours on him on Sunday but we're still working on phase 0 (recruit enough shamans to beat the enrage timer, most nights we have one). There's about five of us who can consistently pull off 2k-ish but just as many who are not putting out the DPS they need to be at this level. For example, one of the mages is AM spam spec. She insists this is still viable. She is consistently several hundred DPS lower than what she was doing last week as fire, and this is not even considering <20% mage hax. The mind, it boggles. Healing and tanking and positioning seems to have been sorted out at least. One of the RLs moans every time we work on Brutallus but don't hit the enrage, saying it's not progress and we're wasting our time. But he's a hunter. He is pretty much oblivious to the fact that the fight is on the healers and tanks as much if not more than the DPS. We... stand there and DPS hard. They actually have to THINK.
healers look like they probably have to work hard though
We've done RoS?
Transporter are you dead yet, as that's the only thing that could bring me joy at this point in the venture
Also, Fodder, Ayanami and I were describing all the horrible tortures we would perform to the people who don't log for raids when we find them next.
Curved pieces of lithium down the urethra was one of the things discussed, as well as sparying liquid STDs into the victim's eyes.
I was quite sure we killed bloodboil and RoS on a Sunday after we'd had a good week, and wowjutsu supports this.
Also, that is terrifying and horrific, but somethings got to be done...
But some people (who are btw, not even level 50 yet) seem to be adamant about them.
Not even 10 of us who rerolled from Horde Senjin to Windrunner alliance.
Problem is, I don't see many guilds who are just going to plan to stick to 10 mans until the expansion. They are all pushing the progression angle, even guilds who havent cleared Kara yet.
Odd.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/member.php?u=10088
Is this one of those "it's my birthday" dings?
Congrats. You are now a year older. You gain:
+ 5 to resisting random acts of stupidity.
+ 5 to grey hair detection.
+ 1 to your chance of dating a younger woman without attracting the attention of Dateline.
For me (I'm not a re-roll) -- I really want to SEE the content. I know the gear is going to be obsolete & that I'll never get into Sunwell and it takes a lot of time and blah blah blah. But, dangit, I want to play this game to it's fullest. I've spent tons of time getting my two toons decked out with what I have available and reading forums/etc to make sure I am doing everything possible to play my toon with the highest skill. But, even though there are like 500 people in my guild, there are maybe 10 that aren't certifiably brain dead.
I think thats the standard practise, beware of any guild that gets above about 100 members, thats about the time when you can say for certain that there are absolutely no standards in the guild and then everybody of merit has already fled the sinking ship, put more than 100 players together in a guild and its less about raiding and more about creating barrens chat in green.
No you don't
SSC is more of the same goddamn naga you've always seen and rather boring or irritating bosses (leotheras and vashj I consider exceptions, but the former is a mega retard check and the latter is just plain hard)
And TK is a horrible horrible abortion of an instance (OH GOD THE VR TRASH OH GOD)
Today, on Generalization Theater...
But seriously, my guild is over 100 individual accounts. About 1/3-1/2 at a given time are raiders and alternates, and the rest are friends, family and ex-raiders. They clean house every few months, so these are mostly active people, not 40 active accounts and 60 that have been offline for 8 months.
I'd put the cutoff for 'lawlzergguild' over 150-250 accounts, or even higher, but it really just depends on the attitude and focus of the guild. I'm sure somewhere there's a guild with over 500 members running a half dozen or more T6 level groups, and 25 person guilds that are nothing but "everyone invite everyone and see who stays" zergs. It's not entirely about the size, but what those people do that defines them.
And now I'm paraphrasing Batman Begins accidentally. I guess I know what I'll be watching during the raid tonight.
Also, I'll second the above. I respect groups that want to push into T5/T6, but honestly the time and effort are massive compared to just farming up Karazhan once a week in 3-4 hours and earning a new piece of T6 level gear per month or so (okay, with a few heroics along the way).
It's basically "lolwelfareepics pve edition", and will put you in damned fine gear by the time the expansion comes out without a lot of excess time, effort and drama.
Ok, raiding high end bosses may suck. It may be painful and the rewards are incommensurate with the efforts. But, it's the game I play. Are you telling me that you didn't enjoy the first time you downed SSC bosss? Or that you don't enjoy owning bosses. I'm sure some of the bosses suck -- but I want to be able to make that decision on my own, not by reading everyone else's forum posts.
Yeah yeah, I'm naieve and all that -- but I hit 60 the day before TBC came out, so I never saw any of that content. Now, after a couple month hiatus, I'm at 70 and would love to actually see some of the end-game content. Otherwise, I'm going to be 80 and never have seen end game content more than Mags/Gruul.
It's worth seeing them once I think. But that's about it. SSC suffers from a lot of the same design issues that MC did. TK wasn't as bad but only Kael's fight is interesting.
Eh, I don't hate any of the SSC bosses we've done (lurker, leo, tidewalker), but I'm doing them as ranged dps.
TK wouldn't be so bad if we hadn't lost all but 1 of our warlocks
You know LEEEERRROOOOYYYY JEEEENNKIIIIINSSSS -- yeah, I don't get it -- never been there.
You know the whole "watch the whelps /eggs" joke -- don't get it -- never been there.
You know when you talk about the water tombs on Tidewalker -- don't get it -- never been there.
etc etc etc.
The point is, I'm a WoW nerd, but I don't understand any references to anything more than "click the damn cubes" on Mags.
The whelps/eggs joke is in the same room as the Leroy Jenkins joke.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
No seriously, you can. Go look.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
One of these days I'm going to key up for MC, stealth in, and go see this window
I have my suspicions on what goes down
but I've never confirmed it
it's going to be my special discovery
OMG MEMORIES. I love that damn crack. Seriously.
Edit: Good luck with that Ledneh. It's behind a giant fire golem. He and his hounds will eat your face off.
It's a very special surprise.
nerds
Dude, don't let them get you down. This is exactly the attitude one should have about raiding. SSC might be a watery hell after you've been running it for months on end or if your guild is too terribad to kill Vashj after a couple weeks of practice, but raiding isn't just about skipping everything possible to jump into the current "end" dungeon. The bosses in SSC/TK are mostly worth seeing. I had fun learning them. Vashj is EASILY one of my favorite fights in the game. Leotheras is a sexy bitch.
I really never understand the mentality of "let's get our badge gear and skip two or three entire instances worth of content." Badge gear is good for making that content easier, making people not have to all wear tailoring gear or farm SSC for months to be able to move on to Hyjal, but it isn't meant to effectively delete tier 5 instances from the game.
I'm not paying dues or taking my turn in the fraternity initiation, I'm playing a game. I'd just assume put off serious progression until the expansion, since realisticly, the 8 of us are not going to flesh out a guild capable of doing anything worthwhile in 25 mans before it's out. Talking about people with zero raid experience past Gruul's here.
Having played a healer in the past, I don't think that's really a very fair comparison at all.
Don't have enough warlocks? Welcome to horrible rape demon town leading up to void reaver! Don't have the pulls up to leotheras perfectly marked and tanked? Whoops, half your raid is in the water. Pulled two packs? Time to remove your pants. Someone in your raid has less than 9k hp? Get used to rezzing them, half the trash packs will randomly deal 10k damage to someone in the raid instantly.
We were doing the BT trash from supremus to akama, and we would routinely pull two packs at once and have no problems whatsoever with them, that's just not something that happens in T5.