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Evil will triumph because good is dumb!
electricitylikesme
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
What makes a compelling bad guy?
Perhaps "bad" is the wrong word to use - a compelling antagonist. In recent years I tend find myself often hoping that somehow the bad guy of a piece will get to put his plan into action, just because I want to see what it was and what they would do afterwards.
Basically what I'm wondering is, what sorts of opposing forces are interesting to watch? What are some examples of villains or antagonists who actually had interesting ideologies, or at least didn't make the reason the "good guys" should win so obvious?
Perhaps "bad" is the wrong word to use - a compelling antagonist. In recent years I tend find myself often hoping that somehow the bad guy of a piece will get to put his plan into action, just because I want to see what it was and what they would do afterwards.
Basically what I'm wondering is, what sorts of opposing forces are interesting to watch? What are some examples of villains or antagonists who actually had interesting ideologies, or at least didn't make the reason the "good guys" should win so obvious?
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I almost want to say Emile from Double Agent, but he was just such a tosser.
That, and the Big Brother style of antagonist is fun to me too.
You don't.
That's why I think he makes a great villain.
Isn't that called a "tragic hero"?
While he may be trying to save his wife or someshit, he kills and robs people.
A tragic hero is still a protagonist. Flawed, but ultimately good. The whole Greek thing. I guess this would be the tragic antagonist. Somebody that's ultimately good, but does bad things as a means to an end. Do they pay for their crimes, or are their aspirations noble enough to warrant at least some kind of a pass?
Sauron, to me, isn't compelling because the only reason he wants to conquer the world is because he's evil.
An example of a more compelling villain (really a family of villains) would be the Lannisters from The Song of Ice and Fire. To be non-spoilery, every evil act they take boils down to protecting their family and the ones they love. Yes, they go to extremes in order to seize power, but they (especially Tyrion) are all extremely loyal to their family. That's sympathetic and compelling.
A good villain should be relentless and ruthless. Willing to do whatever is necessary, and never give up. It builds suspense.
A good villain should look good in a pant suits. Sometimes dresses if visiting Hawaii.
Uhh... no? The idea is that they don't care what gets in their way as long as they get what they are after, and that society ultimately "doesn't understand" or something like that. Maybe they don't think what they're doing is necessarily wrong, or maybe they think what they're after outweighs whatever wrong they do. I mean, what you said could be a trait, and maybe they attain their goal and then face the consequences of their actions, but it's obvious that they're not "truly noble," whatever that might mean, because they're doing bad things to begin with.
I like it because it creates conflicted characters, and being sympathetic towards the antagonist is a draw for me. It might make you feel bad if they get punished.
But nope, he's just evil.
Also, I submit to you Dexter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexter_Morgan
On the other hand, good villains with sympathetic traits can also be good, but only if some fundamental core belief of there's is flawed within that story's moral structure. I like Gaara from Naruto as an example here.
and of course, redeemed villains make the COOLEST heroes.
XBL Gametag: mailarde
Screen Digest LOL3RZZ
The people he hurts are all evil people.
The dude from Watchmen
One of my favourite movie characters for sure.
Yeah, but he's still a vain, cruel wretch. Just because he's the narrator it doesn't mean he's not a villain.
Of course, you should probably put the name in the spoiler too...
God, Kevin Spacey, you do a damn good job at playing evil.
Edit:
Also, Benjamin Linus. He isn't a villain, so to speak, but damnit if he sometimes makes you think he is. That is a good villain.
Agreed. Darth Vader is a good example of this.
Dexter is only a vigilante tangentially. He has a deep need to murder people and chop them up, doing it to evil people was only thrown in by Harry.
So he was supposed to grow up to be a villain, but was turned into a hero instead, through training and self discipline.
Having the need to kill people and using it only on those deserving it isn't a great deal different from having the tools to kill and only using them on those deserving.
Actually, it is, because by nature of it being a "need" it's something he is compelled to do.
Evil people torturing and killing another evil person doesn't make it good - what happens if he runs out of evil people?
Luckily, that will never happen.
XBL Gametag: mailarde
Screen Digest LOL3RZZ
He was astoundingly shallow and selfish, but I wouldn't call him a villain. All the things you attribute to him are fine, but... well, does there have to be a hero for there to be a villain? Hell, even Dolores was a manipulative little cunt most of the time. I'd say there just wasn't a villain.
It comes down to motives, and its why I think Dexter is such an interesting character (and villain). He is a complete sociopath, empty of feeling with a innate need to commit horrible murders, but he has been crafted into an 'avenging angel'. Perhaps a bit of the redeemed villain theme.
Meaning he isn't a complete sociopath.
Protagonist/Antagonist has nothing to do with Hero or Villain status. It's late, so the only example I can think of is Light from Death Note as a Protagonist Villain.
How do you know? He certainly pretends to love her but he always says he is incapable of loving anyone.
He said that, but I don't think he would ever kill Deb or Rita. Why do you think he went back to her? Just because Lila was a crazy bitch?
He missed her and the kids.
I think most sociopaths are born that way, Dexter was made into one through trauma. He is slowly becoming a normal dude.
Artemis Entreri.
As an assassin who leads an empty life without any emotions, his ideology was that the reason he was the best fighter (that he knew) was because he had given up on other kinds of pursuits like feelings and friendship and hobbies and instead developed his fighting talents.
So when he faces Drizzt he sees someone who is equal to him in fighting skills and still has the time and mental energy to develop friendships and care for others. This is the reason behind his strong rivalry with Drizzt; to admit that they're equal would admit that Artemis wasted his life, so he tries over and over to prove that he's the better fighter.
For this reason, Entreri is one of the best developed antagonists in the fantasy universe, in my opinion.
God, I hope not.