Back when I was in college me and 4 or 5 friends would pool our money, buy one copy of each textbook, then make PDF copies for everyone =\ everyone lost, we all had shitty pdf textbooks and the publishers lost money, thanks to their assinine pricing schemes
Unfortunately the vast majority of college textbooks are not available in digital format unless you're taking English Literature or something and your textbook is a novel.
Doesn't Amazon offer a ton of books in digital format? That's sorta the whole point of the Kindle for them isn't it? I see a lot of my semiconductors books available for it. None of them are discounted, so it doesn't actually save any money.
I'm waiting for Plastic Logic to come up with a DVD-case-sized version of their e-reader, because, a) fuck proprietary formats and b) keyboard? WTH!?
Needs an Apple logo and apple commercials.
Calling Justin Long right now actually, 1 sec.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
Yeah, Apple Inc. could put out a eBook reader called iRead tomorrow and the world would change to accommodate it. I don't really care, except that I want exactly no buttons on the face of my books thank you.
Anyway, I had an idea: Capacitative touch screens register a change in capacitance (hence the name) when you touch them with skin. What I want to know is; how sensitive are they? Can they differentiate between, say, a finger and a stylus?
Because, if you can, you have a built-in note taking interface - you use fingers to swipe through pages etc. and you pull out the stylus to scribble notes, seamlessly and incredibly intuitively. What say you all?
Unfortunately the vast majority of college textbooks are not available in digital format unless you're taking English Literature or something and your textbook is a novel.
Doesn't Amazon offer a ton of books in digital format? That's sorta the whole point of the Kindle for them isn't it? I see a lot of my semiconductors books available for it. None of them are discounted, so it doesn't actually save any money.
You've probably got the one major in the whole word who's textbooks are available on Kindle. Check out the publisher, it's Wiley-IEEE Press, it's got IEEE in the name! Amazon doesn't just get to decide it's going to digitize books, they don't have the right to do that. It goes through the publisher and most aren't as forward thinking as one that publishes books for electrical engineers.
They're also like...print price. $95 for a Kindle book that they sell for $116.95 in print? That seems silly.
Unfortunately the vast majority of college textbooks are not available in digital format unless you're taking English Literature or something and your textbook is a novel.
Doesn't Amazon offer a ton of books in digital format? That's sorta the whole point of the Kindle for them isn't it? I see a lot of my semiconductors books available for it. None of them are discounted, so it doesn't actually save any money.
You've probably got the one major in the whole word who's textbooks are available on Kindle. Check out the publisher, it's Wiley-IEEE Press, it's got IEEE in the name! Amazon doesn't just get to decide it's going to digitize books, they don't have the right to do that. It goes through the publisher and most aren't as forward thinking as one that publishes books for electrical engineers.
They're also like...print price. $95 for a Kindle book that they sell for $116.95 in print? That seems silly.
And you cannot sell the printed version back to the college for $5.
The college textbook industry is a huge racket. Prices are kept artificially high by both publishers and book stores (whose profit often goes to the school). About 50% of the retail price of a new textbook is pure markup added by both the retailer and publisher. About 20% is the actual printing cost and depending on the book about another 5% is shipping and distribution costs. The remaining 25% is about an even break between marketing, page layout and design, authors' fees, and other publisher costs.
For a $117 textbook the break even price would be $30 with these percentages, even with a 100% markup by the publisher the retail price of the Kindle textbook should only be about $60. Even if more publishers release e-book versions of textbooks I don't see any reason to believe they'll not rape students' wallets simply because they can.
The more we talk about this, the less I think I would want full fledged texbooks on the Kindle. The search function on the Kindle actually doesn't search the text of books (retarded right?) just the titles of everything on it. So basically, there'd be no way to quickly flip to a page with info you need since you'd still need to just go to the chapter and flip-flip-flip.
The college textbook industry is a huge racket. Prices are kept artificially high by both publishers and book stores (whose profit often goes to the school). About 50% of the retail price of a new textbook is pure markup added by both the retailer and publisher. About 20% is the actual printing cost and depending on the book about another 5% is shipping and distribution costs. The remaining 25% is about an even break between marketing, page layout and design, authors' fees, and other publisher costs.
For a $117 textbook the break even price would be $30 with these percentages, even with a 100% markup by the publisher the retail price of the Kindle textbook should only be about $60. Even if more publishers release e-book versions of textbooks I don't see any reason to believe they'll not rape students' wallets simply because they can.
This may only be tangentially related, but, this is a relatively recent development. It used to be that, with textbooks, the publisher could re-coup their profit over several years before a new edition would be required--thereby, they could afford a smaller margin on each individual textbook.
Now, however, everything has changed. Students no longer buy new textbooks when they can buy the same one, used, online or at any of the hundreds of student book shops around town. As a result, textbook companies have to recoup their entire margin, which has to support their staff, administrative costs, marketing budget, etc., in just the first print run (usually the first year, although in some cities, the first fall semester is their only shot). This means that rather than make their margin over several years, they have to increase it substantially for the first run ever.
It also has the side effect of forcing them to come out with new editions practically every year, constantly changing the location of material, etc., just to sell any books at all after the first run.
Essentially, the newer practice of selling back our books and buying used over new ones has completely destroyed the traditional business model. I'm not surprised that while they frantically search for a new one, they have to do whatever they can to stay in business in the meantime. And even though it means I'm practically broke every August and January, I don't begrudge them for it.
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"He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
As a result, textbook companies have to recoup their entire margin, which has to support their staff, administrative costs, marketing budget, etc., in just the first print run (usually the first year, although in some cities, the first fall semester is their only shot). This means that rather than make their margin over several years, they have to increase it substantially for the first run ever.
I don't think you clearly understand what the above words mean. The inflated prices result in a net profit of 50% of the textbook's retail price. As I laid out rather clearly, 25% of the retail price of the book goes to pay the author and all of the people that work at the publisher. The cost of printing and shipping the book is only about 25% of the cover price. If the retailer adds a 20% markup that leaves 30% of the cover price as net profit for the publisher.
Textbook publishers have been doing this for years, it is not some sort of recent development. Publishers have always enjoyed high margins on textbooks. They have a captive audience and behave accordingly. The only reason they release new editions regularly is to poison the used book market. They make $0 on a used book sold so they update their syllabi and textbooks and push them to department heads and individual professors. If you ever have a class that absolutely requires the latest edition of a textbook it is almost always because the publisher took the professor out for a fancy lunch.
This is clearly a conversation for DnD, but I'll leave it at the following:
Assuming your figures are accurate, where do you think this "massive profit" is being spent? Although "50% margin!" makes for large sounding numbers in an absolute sense, relatively speaking, do you recognize that the college textbook market is somewhat narrow compared to other consumer markets? And finally, have you recognized the fact that the secondary textbook market (used books) has exploded in recent years compared to even 15 or 20 years ago?
DrHookenstein on
"He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
Well, the secondary market is WHY they have to make so much on the inital run. If there was no secondary market, then then could drop the margin and it would'nt matter. I could be wrong, but I don't think the publishers get anything from college bookstores who do secondary sales, which is money out of their pocket. Not saying it's right or whatever, I hate paying 120 bucks for a colorful textbook, but that's where they're coming from.
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I had a psych teacher who wrote his own textbooks. He was able to keep the costs low for students, the bookstore would not buy them back, and he had to make enough changes to the book to warrant a reprint every year.
It's kind of disgusting, but its clearly not impossible to make prices reasonable on some printings.
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where do you think this "massive profit" is being spent?
Do you not know what profit means? Profit is the money left over after all other costs are taken into account. By definition this money is just stuffed into the bank or distributed among share holders. Publishers do not meaningfully drop the price of textbooks even when technology (such as e-books) allows them to do so. They have a captive market that they fleece every semester. College book stores are little better as they charge 50% of the retail price on a used book they paid $5 for at the end of the previous semester. To reiterate, the college textbook industry is a huge racket.
"He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
Hmm...Well, no...but, if you own them, then it MAY be alright to download copies...but i'm not really up on the "Fair Use" copyright law. Is it legal to download a MP3 or a movie if you own a physical copy?
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I have a real stupid question. Can you take any of your currently owned books and have them put on to your Kindle somehow?
there are several books that I reread every couple of years, but I dont want to rebuy them.
No, but generally older books cost less than the newer ones do. I bought Peter F. Hamilton's Night's Dawn trilogy in paper back and hard cover, and when I bought my wife her Kindle, they had the entire trilogy available for $8 or $9 bucks, so I picked it up a third time.
So I am working 2 days of Holiday Overtime (Double Time And A half / Triple Time) this week, for a grand total of...
Just about enough to buy a Kindle.
Is it worth the current 3 month wait? The Sprint EVDO network is here in Twin Falls ID 83301 (pity the iPhone network isn't), and I have permission to bring it in to MyJob for use in between tech support calls.
It also has pretty much all of Xanth and Discworld on it.
Nothing by Brad Warner, but then again, he's only got 2 books out. DailyKOS is available on it, and apparently it has a hacked together web browser which I imagine they would prefer you not abuse... But which I fully intend to have GameFAQs on standby.
I noticed if I want to pay a 300% markup I can have a gently used one right now for $990.
... Fortunately I am not an idiot.
So, anyone in here who owns one, is it worth it? Apparently Oprah discovered the Kindle and now it's impossible to find? (Again.)
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
Kindle II comes out after Christmas and you will probably prefer the student version anyway. Also, Sony's e-reader isn't, for a wonder, tied to any particular proprietary Sony file format like the kindle is. Never mind that Plastic Logic should have their device out Q1 next year as well...
Basically, every review I've seen has said "good first try, but you need to fix this this and this..." about the kindle, and most of the e-reader reviews amount to "just like the kindle, except they fixed this this and this..." - I'd wait for the technology to evolve by at least one hardware generation yet.
Well, my major worry with the Kindle 2 is them killing off the open web browser. Although I suppose I'll get enough of an advanced warning of that to order the Kindle 1 before it goes unavailable.
What's this "Student Version" of the Kindle you're speaking of?
Well, my major worry with the Kindle 2 is them killing off the open web browser. Although I suppose I'll get enough of an advanced warning of that to order the Kindle 1 before it goes unavailable.
What's this "Student Version" of the Kindle you're speaking of?
Honestly, the web browser is pretty fucking terrible and slow as shit. I wouldn't make that your deciding purchase.
Well, my major worry with the Kindle 2 is them killing off the open web browser. Although I suppose I'll get enough of an advanced warning of that to order the Kindle 1 before it goes unavailable.
What's this "Student Version" of the Kindle you're speaking of?
Honestly, the web browser is pretty fucking terrible and slow as shit. I wouldn't make that your deciding purchase.
Doesn't have to be good, most anything I plan on reading will be downloaded, either as a txt file (the occasional gamefaqs file) or as an eBook (everything on Amazon.com). Browser is just for the little extra bits that don't fall under those two categories.
Well, my major worry with the Kindle 2 is them killing off the open web browser. Although I suppose I'll get enough of an advanced warning of that to order the Kindle 1 before it goes unavailable.
What's this "Student Version" of the Kindle you're speaking of?
Honestly, the web browser is pretty fucking terrible and slow as shit. I wouldn't make that your deciding purchase.
While kind of true I still wouldn't have bought it without it. One of the biggest draws was being able to check Gmail from work, since my job blocks it. Fucking morons.
Well, my major worry with the Kindle 2 is them killing off the open web browser. Although I suppose I'll get enough of an advanced warning of that to order the Kindle 1 before it goes unavailable.
What's this "Student Version" of the Kindle you're speaking of?
Honestly, the web browser is pretty fucking terrible and slow as shit. I wouldn't make that your deciding purchase.
While kind of true I still wouldn't have bought it without it. One of the biggest draws was being able to check Gmail from work, since my job blocks it. Fucking morons.
It's a great device though.
Same here.
Man, I wish I knew if I should just spring for it or wait. I also wish Oprah hadn't discovered it quite so soon. Wasn't it in stock for a while there?
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Well, my major worry with the Kindle 2 is them killing off the open web browser. Although I suppose I'll get enough of an advanced warning of that to order the Kindle 1 before it goes unavailable.
What's this "Student Version" of the Kindle you're speaking of?
Honestly, the web browser is pretty fucking terrible and slow as shit. I wouldn't make that your deciding purchase.
While kind of true I still wouldn't have bought it without it. One of the biggest draws was being able to check Gmail from work, since my job blocks it. Fucking morons.
It's a great device though.
I will admit my wife found out she can check Fark through it, and ended up not talking to me for three hours yesterday while reading headlines.
The best option in the UK right now appears to be the Sony Reader.
But I don't want something that Amazon is going to blow out of the water when it (apparently) launches the Kindle (or Kindle II?) over here sometime next year.
I want an ebook reader now damn it. But I'll wait until next year. Sony loses more format wars than it wins.
This shouldn't even be a format war. .txt files are readable by both. The only difference between their formats is which company the DRM is locked for.
Its actually kinda funny how in this case sony supports more formats total, and more public formats than their competitors (epub and drm'd pdf), its a complete 360 from their usual strategy
This shouldn't even be a format war. .txt files are readable by both. The only difference between their formats is which company the DRM is locked for.
Tell that to the merchant e-book sites. Some of which have up to 4 or 5 different versions of the same book for sale in different formats which work on some devices but never all of them. Example.
They just need one good standardised format and then to stick to it, damn it.
Bloody hell, 1500? I would sell my Kindle for that kinda cash if i did'nt use it constantly...
Considering that the Kindle 2 is speculated to be out early next year it would probably make sense to backup all your ebooks and then sell it for that kinda cash. Hell, though it isn't as good, you could buy a Sony 505 to keep you sorted until then and still be up on your money after buying a Kindle 2.
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Needs an Apple logo and apple commercials.
Calling Justin Long right now actually, 1 sec.
Anyway, I had an idea: Capacitative touch screens register a change in capacitance (hence the name) when you touch them with skin. What I want to know is; how sensitive are they? Can they differentiate between, say, a finger and a stylus?
Because, if you can, you have a built-in note taking interface - you use fingers to swipe through pages etc. and you pull out the stylus to scribble notes, seamlessly and incredibly intuitively. What say you all?
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
You've probably got the one major in the whole word who's textbooks are available on Kindle. Check out the publisher, it's Wiley-IEEE Press, it's got IEEE in the name! Amazon doesn't just get to decide it's going to digitize books, they don't have the right to do that. It goes through the publisher and most aren't as forward thinking as one that publishes books for electrical engineers.
They're also like...print price. $95 for a Kindle book that they sell for $116.95 in print? That seems silly.
And you cannot sell the printed version back to the college for $5.
For a $117 textbook the break even price would be $30 with these percentages, even with a 100% markup by the publisher the retail price of the Kindle textbook should only be about $60. Even if more publishers release e-book versions of textbooks I don't see any reason to believe they'll not rape students' wallets simply because they can.
They really need to fix that search function...
This may only be tangentially related, but, this is a relatively recent development. It used to be that, with textbooks, the publisher could re-coup their profit over several years before a new edition would be required--thereby, they could afford a smaller margin on each individual textbook.
Now, however, everything has changed. Students no longer buy new textbooks when they can buy the same one, used, online or at any of the hundreds of student book shops around town. As a result, textbook companies have to recoup their entire margin, which has to support their staff, administrative costs, marketing budget, etc., in just the first print run (usually the first year, although in some cities, the first fall semester is their only shot). This means that rather than make their margin over several years, they have to increase it substantially for the first run ever.
It also has the side effect of forcing them to come out with new editions practically every year, constantly changing the location of material, etc., just to sell any books at all after the first run.
Essentially, the newer practice of selling back our books and buying used over new ones has completely destroyed the traditional business model. I'm not surprised that while they frantically search for a new one, they have to do whatever they can to stay in business in the meantime. And even though it means I'm practically broke every August and January, I don't begrudge them for it.
I don't know if this is necessarily true. (Depends on the product.) Is Apple TV even doing that well compared to, say, Netflix?
I don't think you clearly understand what the above words mean. The inflated prices result in a net profit of 50% of the textbook's retail price. As I laid out rather clearly, 25% of the retail price of the book goes to pay the author and all of the people that work at the publisher. The cost of printing and shipping the book is only about 25% of the cover price. If the retailer adds a 20% markup that leaves 30% of the cover price as net profit for the publisher.
Textbook publishers have been doing this for years, it is not some sort of recent development. Publishers have always enjoyed high margins on textbooks. They have a captive audience and behave accordingly. The only reason they release new editions regularly is to poison the used book market. They make $0 on a used book sold so they update their syllabi and textbooks and push them to department heads and individual professors. If you ever have a class that absolutely requires the latest edition of a textbook it is almost always because the publisher took the professor out for a fancy lunch.
Assuming your figures are accurate, where do you think this "massive profit" is being spent? Although "50% margin!" makes for large sounding numbers in an absolute sense, relatively speaking, do you recognize that the college textbook market is somewhat narrow compared to other consumer markets? And finally, have you recognized the fact that the secondary textbook market (used books) has exploded in recent years compared to even 15 or 20 years ago?
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It's kind of disgusting, but its clearly not impossible to make prices reasonable on some printings.
Do you not know what profit means? Profit is the money left over after all other costs are taken into account. By definition this money is just stuffed into the bank or distributed among share holders. Publishers do not meaningfully drop the price of textbooks even when technology (such as e-books) allows them to do so. They have a captive market that they fleece every semester. College book stores are little better as they charge 50% of the retail price on a used book they paid $5 for at the end of the previous semester. To reiterate, the college textbook industry is a huge racket.
there are several books that I reread every couple of years, but I dont want to rebuy them.
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No, but generally older books cost less than the newer ones do. I bought Peter F. Hamilton's Night's Dawn trilogy in paper back and hard cover, and when I bought my wife her Kindle, they had the entire trilogy available for $8 or $9 bucks, so I picked it up a third time.
Just about enough to buy a Kindle.
Is it worth the current 3 month wait? The Sprint EVDO network is here in Twin Falls ID 83301 (pity the iPhone network isn't), and I have permission to bring it in to MyJob for use in between tech support calls.
It also has pretty much all of Xanth and Discworld on it.
Nothing by Brad Warner, but then again, he's only got 2 books out. DailyKOS is available on it, and apparently it has a hacked together web browser which I imagine they would prefer you not abuse... But which I fully intend to have GameFAQs on standby.
I noticed if I want to pay a 300% markup I can have a gently used one right now for $990.
... Fortunately I am not an idiot.
So, anyone in here who owns one, is it worth it? Apparently Oprah discovered the Kindle and now it's impossible to find? (Again.)
http://news.cnet.com/amazons-kindle-2-leaked/
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10107649-1.html
Wonder if it'll have the web browser.
Basically, every review I've seen has said "good first try, but you need to fix this this and this..." about the kindle, and most of the e-reader reviews amount to "just like the kindle, except they fixed this this and this..." - I'd wait for the technology to evolve by at least one hardware generation yet.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Edit: Uh yeah... that one.
What's this "Student Version" of the Kindle you're speaking of?
Honestly, the web browser is pretty fucking terrible and slow as shit. I wouldn't make that your deciding purchase.
Doesn't have to be good, most anything I plan on reading will be downloaded, either as a txt file (the occasional gamefaqs file) or as an eBook (everything on Amazon.com). Browser is just for the little extra bits that don't fall under those two categories.
While kind of true I still wouldn't have bought it without it. One of the biggest draws was being able to check Gmail from work, since my job blocks it. Fucking morons.
It's a great device though.
Same here.
Man, I wish I knew if I should just spring for it or wait. I also wish Oprah hadn't discovered it quite so soon. Wasn't it in stock for a while there?
As for the student edition, it is allegedly what amounts to the iPod Touch compared to the Kindle's iPod Classic.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
I will admit my wife found out she can check Fark through it, and ended up not talking to me for three hours yesterday while reading headlines.
In other words, wait and see what those crazy gents over at Amazon do come 2009?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000FI73MA/ref=dp_olp_1
Refurbished Kindles are in stock. $330. They ship same day.
I don't get paid again for another 2 weeks, and I have to be responsible and save money until then.
Just as well, the chances of there being a hardware refresh in the spring is so stupidly high even I can see it.
But I don't want something that Amazon is going to blow out of the water when it (apparently) launches the Kindle (or Kindle II?) over here sometime next year.
I want an ebook reader now damn it. But I'll wait until next year. Sony loses more format wars than it wins.
Tell that to the merchant e-book sites. Some of which have up to 4 or 5 different versions of the same book for sale in different formats which work on some devices but never all of them. Example.
They just need one good standardised format and then to stick to it, damn it.
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Considering that the Kindle 2 is speculated to be out early next year it would probably make sense to backup all your ebooks and then sell it for that kinda cash. Hell, though it isn't as good, you could buy a Sony 505 to keep you sorted until then and still be up on your money after buying a Kindle 2.