The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent
vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums
here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules
document is now in effect.
[WoW] Rogues - Or how I stopped worrying and learned to facestab
Posts
If I have to have a boring spec with boring talents that do nothing special in particular (any rogue in the game can spam SS, SnD and Rupture), at least make it good for the group.
Subtlety? OMG I'M NIGHTCRAWLER RAWR!
Mutilate? OMG HUGE NUMBERS! COMBO POINTS YESYESYES!
Combat? ... I have a great rotation that I get to use when I'm not the EA bitch?
B.net: Kusanku
It's not about big numbers. It does need a bit of a boost, though.
Currently, at 80, with an iLevel 213 2.5 MH and a 1.5 OH, it does 1254 DPS base. This is before mitigation, and not including crit or Prey on the Weak/Relentless Earthstorm. Assuming 20% crit it goes up closer to 1600. It needs a buff, but it's not terrible. It needs a much shorter cooldown, as well. Much shorter.
EDIT: Also doesn't include white attacks, but you'll see maybe 2 OH and 1 MH attack while on your "Spree," most likely.
Frankly it needs to remove all movement impairing effects as well.
So basically, from what I've gathered, 90% of people would be happy if all 51-pt talents removed snares and roots.
Especially combat, since it sucks in pvp quite a lot.
Consider: If you're that deep into Combat, you're very likely not PvPing (regularly). You're probably using it to A) level or
It's just a poorly thought out ability. With a revamp it could be solid, but as is? Nah.
I'm not kidding though. That's the sentiment I see all across the board. "Our 51-pt talent should remove snares." "Make Bladestorm remove snares." "Killing Spree should remove snares." "Why doesn't hunger for blood remove snares?" "TG warriors should be immune to snares." "SOmetimes when I get snared I take a laxative." "Etc, etc, so on and so forth."
I just found it amusing.
That said, I don't think it really belongs in the Combat tree. Combat has always been more of a raiding tree, and the amount of time I'm rooted in a raid is usually pretty small. And no, I don't think we should have 3 viable pvp trees, we already have Mutilate and Subtlety specs for that.
Putting a snare removal/immunity in deep assassination or subtlety would make sense to me, however.
I know, I know, I'm not saying otherwise, and I'm not disagreeing. I was just making a point about a very common desire.
Personally I think it's silly to say 'no don't make all 3 trees good for PVP and PVE!!!'
Why the hell wouldn't you? It means you can finally spec in the tree you like the most instead of what is clearly best for the role. Are you afraid of choice or something?
Why should anyone have to respec to change between PVP and PVE?
Because they have struggled to make ONE tree pve viable and ONE tree pvp for each class. Expecting 1-3 pve tree(s) and 3 pvp trees is just being greedy.
And bluntly, "viable" means a whole lot of things to a whole lot of people, but even Blizzard has admitted that people will still number crunch out the 'best' spec based on numbers in talents, skills and gear. Bluntly, trying to make all 30 trees pvp and pve viable is just a waste of time, effort and resources, unless they've managed to figure out some magical talent alterations that will somehow finely tune 60 different playstyles (30 specs, 2 playstyles per spec, not counting for hybrid builds) to be equally effective.
Edit: and I give hybrids shit for expecting to be the best at everything they can do, so it'd be hypocritical of me to not voice a dissenting opinion on rogue (even my chosen 'main' class) getting that level of freedom, even if it's still just as one role.
Speaking of which, I still think we should get a tanking tree.
Reinstating all physical debuff removal for HFB, as well as one or two other additions to assassination (like bring back the poisons spread on dispell mechanic) and bam, two different but equally worthwhile PVP trees. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to buff sub raid damage (honour among thieves is a great example, since it gives a huge pve benefit but not nearly as much in PVP) and combat PVP performance.
Granted, I wouldn't expect this done by WOTLK release, but it's a goal that can and should be reached.
I agree with this.
You'd think a monster would be much more pissed off at something that dodged everything thrown at it, while beating it's ass, as opposed to just seeing all the damage healed up.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
Although "Each time you Dodge/Parry an attack, you generate threat" is awesome.
Hell, make assassination the pve dps tree, and make combat the tanking tree. We already have dodge and parry talents in there.
I leveled 60-70 as mutilate - with my brother, so it wasn't too bad with the whole "behind target" thing - and liked the play style.
Dodge adds 0 DPS. And bosses, while often interuptable, are generally immune to silence.
I usually take dodge, because it adds a "greater than 0" improvement to my survivability in some encounters, whereas imp gouge generally does nothing for me at all in a raid.
Both have some uses for 5 mans and solo endeavors, but I'm more of a rogue tank than a pvp'er, so I generally skip imp gouge myself.
Oh yeah, on live you take some dodge as filler obviously.
But with the WOTLK talent trees there's no reason to waste points in it anymore.
(although they did say they were looking to buff lightning reflexes into something more awesome)
Am I the only person here who thinks having a physical debuff wipe with no cooldown (3 seconds for energy regen) that refunds half its cost is borderline ridiculous?
Imp Kick is basically a holdover from the days where combat was a viable pvp tree. Used to be able to do all sorts of stuff with it once you learned to read when a tauren shaman was going to stomp and heal or a mage was going to blink. Those days are long gone at this point.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
But why would anyone make a build based around UA? It's not going to make your combat spec good in pvp and it doesn't mean shit in a group because you won't be having aggro.
You should have ~25% dodge easy from agility alone, which is enough to give you a substantial boost when soloing. There are just so many better ways to spend those 5 points, and all of them will boost your dps more than 5% extra UA activation.
Could be.
It's 15 energy and a global cooldown. You can't afford to be wasting GCD on a non-damage/non-CC ability in pvp often.
Especially since all but two physical debuffs can be reapplied instantly.
Hamstring - spammed (wing clip too? For some reason i'm thinking of it as magical)
Deep Wounds - procs often
Rend/Rip - cheap to apply
Mangle (?) - constantly applied since you're being spammed by mangle all the time anyway.
Only rupture and whatever druids bleed finisher is aren't easily reapplied. And garrotte too but that isn't used much since CS is generally better.
Making it bleeds only and not all physical was pretty much a direct nerf to remove hamstring since it's pretty much the only non-bleed physical used anyway. And really, a small buff against our main counterclass hardly seems game breaking.
Have you seen the Rogue vids out there with UA Rogues? There is a lot of potential for a UA build with someone who is stacking insane amounts of agility. It (in theory at least) seems very viable in PvP as well once you get the gear to support it. 5% dodge at 80 is a fuckton of agility, and lightning reflexes makes it that much easier to attain.
I think of Dodge for UA like most Rogues look at Crit for more standard builds.
All kind of moot anyways since apparently they are changing Lightning Reflexes. /shrug
For levelling? Just grab some swords and spec in combat. You want Precision and DW Spec asap, Imp SS as well.
I haven't put talents in the first post yet since i'm waiting for the beta talents to be finalised.
But I guess my mutilate weapons are way worse than my combat weapons, at least in theory. (Edge of Opression vs Vanir Fists) If they can figure out a way to make mutilate weapon upgrades make sense, I'm on board.
I can't decide how to spec at 70, fill up assassination all the way to HFB and then pick up the combat/sub talents while levelling? Or stop at mutilate and fill out CttC and HFB while levelling?
Are deep sub builds just not fun to talk about?
I've been wondering this myself. I would probably lean toward stopping at mutilate in Assassination, but that's based on pretty much nothing.
So I'm unhappy because I'd need to be level 100 to have the talent build I want. Just can't figure out a build that doesn't feel like I'm missing something.
Isn't that the point of talents?