I know those articles are old but I keep hearing about it on another forum and those were what was linked. The only thing I really had to toss back was this since I don't know too much about it. Is there actually anything illegal going on with Obama and ACORN, or is it just another campaign attack?
The ad implies McCain has executive experience (technically, no. They need to drop the Executive bit, it's ripped from Clinton and even MORE useless here.), and also implies that McCain has sat in the President's chair during a crisis and given orders, which would be.. humorous if it had ever happened.
Questions were being raised Thursday morning whether Mr. Wurzelbacher is a registered voter.
Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections, said a Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher, whose address and age match Joe the Plumber’s, registered in Lucas County on Sept. 10, 1992. He voted in his first primary on March 4, 2008, registering as a Republican.
Ms. Howe said that the name may be misspelled in the database.
Looks like he's going to be purged when they compare it to his SSN and other government databases!
I'll let you pick out why the ad isn't good for McCain either...
Well, I think (or hope at least) they meant "His first crisis ever, while in an executive capacity, would be in the presidents chair" and not "this would be his first crisis in the presidents chair."
I'm pretty sure that's what they mean but McCain doesn't have any executive experience, EITHER.
I know those articles are old but I keep hearing about it on another forum and those were what was linked. The only thing I really had to toss back was this since I don't know too much about it. Is there actually anything illegal going on with Obama and ACORN, or is it just another campaign attack?
Obama is linked to ACORN and people in ACORN did something really stupid and illegal. Obama didn't do anything illegal, but the whole guilt by association thing is going on here.
Questions were being raised Thursday morning whether Mr. Wurzelbacher is a registered voter.
Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections, said a Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher, whose address and age match Joe the Plumber’s, registered in Lucas County on Sept. 10, 1992. He voted in his first primary on March 4, 2008, registering as a Republican.
Ms. Howe said that the name may be misspelled in the database.
Fucking ACORN and their voter registration fraud.
Yeah, a misspelling in a state like Ohio should result in a challenge, if the RNC was being at all fair in their voter disenfranchisement.
I know those articles are old but I keep hearing about it on another forum and those were what was linked. The only thing I really had to toss back was this since I don't know too much about it. Is there actually anything illegal going on with Obama and ACORN, or is it just another campaign attack?
No Quarter is a silly source.
That said, FEC says amending reports to change duties is common, RNC goes Waaah. Your only source saying this is foul is the RNC.
Now, on to ACORN. Paying them for GOTV efforts is pretty much what they do. No shocker. McCain was a firm supporter of ACORN until about a week ago, as well. Why? Because ACORN's entire purpose in life, pretty much, is to register people to vote. Really, it's hard to attack that without taking issue with the entire foundation of rights in this country.
What people do is accuse ACORN of trying to rig elections with fake registrations, skipping the logical steps that don't match:
A) in most states, ACORN is legally required to submit the fake registration forms, no matter who gave them to them. They can't sift through and ditch the false ones. They do put cover sheets on things they think are suspect.
ACORN usually turns in the people making these false registrations. Mainly because they're defrauding ACORN.
C) Mickey Mouse can't vote, no matter how many times you register him. Because it would require you to have an ID that says you're mickey fucking mouse, and a poll worker that won't call the cop over when you go up and say you're mickey fucking mouse at the polling location.
The false registrations are an issue, but it's due to a protection law that says registration groups cannot discard a form for any reason at all, in order to stop groups from registering people and then discarding forms that they don't like (say, all the R forms or all the D forms) and the voters showing up and not actually being registered on election day and Fucked.
I know those articles are old but I keep hearing about it on another forum and those were what was linked. The only thing I really had to toss back was this since I don't know too much about it. Is there actually anything illegal going on with Obama and ACORN, or is it just another campaign attack?
Obama is linked to ACORN and people in ACORN did something really stupid and illegal. Obama didn't do anything illegal, but the whole guilt by association thing is going on here.
The thing to remember is that ACORN itself didn't do anything illegal. In fact, their due dilligence is the reason the people who were doing illegal things were caught.
It's also important to remember that McCain has more than a passing association with the group, having spoken at ACORN rallies and worked with their advocates to pass legislation.
I'll let you pick out why the ad isn't good for McCain either...
Well, I think (or hope at least) they meant "His first crisis ever, while in an executive capacity, would be in the presidents chair" and not "this would be his first crisis in the presidents chair."
I'm pretty sure that's what they mean but McCain doesn't have any executive experience, EITHER.
Furthermore, there is also somebody who does have way more executive experience before they have entered the White House than either Obama or McCain, and that person has been an unmitigated disaster.
No, I'm not talking about Sarah Palin.
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I know those articles are old but I keep hearing about it on another forum and those were what was linked. The only thing I really had to toss back was this since I don't know too much about it. Is there actually anything illegal going on with Obama and ACORN, or is it just another campaign attack?
Obama is linked to ACORN and people in ACORN did something really stupid and illegal. Obama didn't do anything illegal, but the whole guilt by association thing is going on here.
Obama is linked to ACORN because he spoke at a few registrar trainings. ACORN had a problem with a few rogue registrars who decided to game the system and fake voter registrations. ACORN has complied fully with the investigations into those false registrations.
It's a non-story, but the GOP wants to set the stage for a November 5th headline of "OBAMA STEALS ELECTION WITH HELP OF ACORN." in the most ironic pot-kettle exchange in election history.
I know those articles are old but I keep hearing about it on another forum and those were what was linked. The only thing I really had to toss back was this since I don't know too much about it. Is there actually anything illegal going on with Obama and ACORN, or is it just another campaign attack?
Here's the deal with the ACORN thing:
Acorn pays people to go register people to vote. Those people bring back the voter registration forms, and Acorn sends them in. Some of these people, instead of registering people to vote, filled out the forms with false information so they could get paid for doing nothing. Acorn sends these in but flags them for the elections people so they know to check those ones out. Why do they send in these fraudulent applications in the first place? It is their policy to do so because some states have laws that say you have to. The laws are in place so that an organization can't go around registering people to vote and then throwing out the registration forms for Republicans.
Is it stupid? Yes. Is it illegal? Maybe. HOWEVER, it looks like Acorn does their part to alert election officials to these fraudulent registrations so that they can be double-checked. It takes a giant leap to go from that to "organized voter fraud campaign," because if you register "Mickey Mouse" (yes, a real example) to vote, then in order for that vote to happen Mickey Mouse actually has to show up to vote! Chances of that happening?
And the people who really matter, the swing voters, could give a shit unless Obama himself is personally filling out fraudulent registration apps.
The laugh about bitching out ACORN is that your base eats it up, but everyone not in the hardcore base goes "are you seriously attacking a group for registering people to vote? What?"
The optics on this attack are pretty much up there with trying to slam Mother Theresa for not letting people pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
Meanwhile, Irish bookies Paddy Power has been taking bets on the outcome of the election.
Lastly, I have commited to spending an hour in prayer each day for this election. I suggest others do the same. We had divine intervention in 2000, we can have it again.
Wasted hour. You had Supreme Court intervention in 2000, douchebag.
Armored Gorilla on
"I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
Lastly, I have commited to spending an hour in prayer each day for this election. I suggest others do the same. We had divine intervention in 2000, we can have it again.
Wasted hour. You had Supreme Court intervention in 2000, douchebag.
I'M GOD
I CAN'T VOTE
GO KNOCK DOORS
Seriously, though, they should probably listen. The frontpager, Brad Smith, is basically telling them to focus on keeping the Dems from getting that 60th Senate seat. He gave them seats to help defend. If the commenters choose not to listen, they have nobody to blame but themselves.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
And Obama is weighing broadening a map that already appears big and red into four more states. A top adviser, former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, said Obama is considering expanding his active campaign back into North Dakota and Georgia, from which he’d shifted resources, and into the Appalachian heartland of West Virginia and Kentucky.
Kentucky.
Obama wants to make a play for KENTUCKY. Meanwhile...
“If you look at the Republican-leaning states, North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, Missouri, you get to 260,†explained McCain political director Mike DuHaime. “Then you got to put together 10 [more electoral votes]. It could be a win in Pennsylvania brings you over, it could be run the table in the Southwest, Iowa and Colorado, Minnesota by itself. There is no shortage of pathways if you hold those big Republican states.â€
“One thing Barack Obama has ensured is that no one will ever use the public financing system again,†said McCain senior adviser Matt McDonald. “Obama has destroyed the system.â€
Does anyone think this is true? Will future Presidential candidates typically get the 2+ million donors required for the Obama strategy to be successful?
As soon as the country is in a good place, apathy will set in and this kind of fundraising will be unheard of once again.
That's my thought. Maybe Hillary could have pulled in Obama-like donations. I'm not convinced anyone else in the last twenty years of Presidential politics could have.
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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
You're always contesting the last election, the saying goes.
Obama winning with it basically means just about every serious candidate passes on public financing in 2012.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
As soon as the country is in a good place, apathy will set in and this kind of fundraising will be unheard of once again.
That's my thought. Maybe Hillary could have pulled in Obama-like donations. I'm not convinced anyone else in the last twenty years of Presidential politics could have.
I dunno, the fact that anyone can donate by just sitting at their computer makes everything so much easier than it ever has been before.
As soon as the country is in a good place, apathy will set in and this kind of fundraising will be unheard of once again.
That's my thought. Maybe Hillary could have pulled in Obama-like donations. I'm not convinced anyone else in the last twenty years of Presidential politics could have.
I dunno, the fact that anyone can donate by just sitting at their computer makes everything so much easier than it ever has been before.
Yeah, I think the internet kind of killed public financing, i don't think people will put up insane numbers like Obama but it'll still probably beat out public financing money.
Lastly, I have commited to spending an hour in prayer each day for this election. I suggest others do the same. We had divine intervention in 2000, we can have it again.
Wasted hour. You had Supreme Court intervention in 2000, douchebag.
I'M GOD
I CAN'T VOTE
GO KNOCK DOORS
Seriously, though, they should probably listen. The frontpager, Brad Smith, is basically telling them to focus on keeping the Dems from getting that 60th Senate seat. He gave them seats to help defend. If the commenters choose not to listen, they have nobody to blame but themselves.
Honestly, and I'm not saying this in some sort of batshit crazy mode, I hope we don't get 60 seats.
60 seats isn't going to be some magic all access pass to progressive government, there are some pretty serious fractures between the blue dog and progressive wings of the party. Obama has already made steps in the right direct to bring the blue dogs into the fold and make sure they help, but I don't know that we'll ever see them on board with the idea of deficit spending during recession, pay down the debt during upticks and they quite simply aren't going to be willing to steam roll what's going to be a vicious republican opposition to push through more spending programs.
I'd much rather see us at 57/58 without Liebermann, so we can get things done by bringing on board the sane republicans but the public at large, and especially the base on the left, doesn't get disappointed that everything doesn't change immediately.
Ohoh.. I finally received my Change of Address Confirmation from the Elections Commission. I was worried that I would be one of those people who talked a mean game but couldn't back it up.
My fiance and I are going to swing MO for Obama. Our coalition of middle-class Jews will wipe the schmutz right out of Washington.
I think I'm converting to Judaism purely for the Yiddish (and the jokes). G_d help me.
Joe Wurtzbacher is a non-story. Stop linking KOS wharrgarbl about him.
You're wrong, seeing all the attention that Joe The Plumber got last night and is continuing to get today. Non-stories don't get national media coverage.
I agree if only because we've seen the kind of legislative damage an unassailable majority can do in Congress.
As much fun as it would be to send the GOP to the kids table for the next two years, I think one of the draws of Obama and one of the most important of his campaign promises is to begin healing the partisan divide that's infested the political landscape for the last 10 years. You won't do that if you don't get some Republican buy-in in the next two years.
Joe Wurtzbacher is a non-story. Stop linking KOS wharrgarbl about him.
You're wrong, seeing all the attention that Joe The Plumber got last night and is continuing to get today. Non-stories don't get national media coverage.
Joe Wurtzbacher is a non-story. Stop linking KOS wharrgarbl about him.
You're wrong, seeing all the attention that Joe The Plumber got last night and is continuing to get today. Non-stories don't get national media coverage.
A...are you serious?
Yes. A story that gets national media coverage is not a non-story. You're thinking of a non-issue, which the plumber's story definitely is.
No, I was thinking a non-story is something that doesn't actually impact the political landscape, doesn't describe or inform anything about the current political climate, and is generally a waste of everyone's time who is thinking, talking, or reading about it.
Which this whole "Vetting Mr. Joe" thing is.
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Clint EastwoodMy baby's in there someplaceShe crawled right inRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
So seriously, what's the deal with the picture of Walnuts with his tongue hanging out?
Posts
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/27/consumer-rights-league-obama-acorn-and-the-subprime-mortgage/
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/election/s_584284.html
I know those articles are old but I keep hearing about it on another forum and those were what was linked. The only thing I really had to toss back was this since I don't know too much about it. Is there actually anything illegal going on with Obama and ACORN, or is it just another campaign attack?
Looks like he's going to be purged when they compare it to his SSN and other government databases!
I'm pretty sure that's what they mean but McCain doesn't have any executive experience, EITHER.
Obama is linked to ACORN and people in ACORN did something really stupid and illegal. Obama didn't do anything illegal, but the whole guilt by association thing is going on here.
Yeah, a misspelling in a state like Ohio should result in a challenge, if the RNC was being at all fair in their voter disenfranchisement.
No Quarter is a silly source.
That said, FEC says amending reports to change duties is common, RNC goes Waaah. Your only source saying this is foul is the RNC.
Now, on to ACORN. Paying them for GOTV efforts is pretty much what they do. No shocker. McCain was a firm supporter of ACORN until about a week ago, as well. Why? Because ACORN's entire purpose in life, pretty much, is to register people to vote. Really, it's hard to attack that without taking issue with the entire foundation of rights in this country.
What people do is accuse ACORN of trying to rig elections with fake registrations, skipping the logical steps that don't match:
A) in most states, ACORN is legally required to submit the fake registration forms, no matter who gave them to them. They can't sift through and ditch the false ones. They do put cover sheets on things they think are suspect.
C) Mickey Mouse can't vote, no matter how many times you register him. Because it would require you to have an ID that says you're mickey fucking mouse, and a poll worker that won't call the cop over when you go up and say you're mickey fucking mouse at the polling location.
The false registrations are an issue, but it's due to a protection law that says registration groups cannot discard a form for any reason at all, in order to stop groups from registering people and then discarding forms that they don't like (say, all the R forms or all the D forms) and the voters showing up and not actually being registered on election day and Fucked.
It's also important to remember that McCain has more than a passing association with the group, having spoken at ACORN rallies and worked with their advocates to pass legislation.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Furthermore, there is also somebody who does have way more executive experience before they have entered the White House than either Obama or McCain, and that person has been an unmitigated disaster.
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Obama is linked to ACORN because he spoke at a few registrar trainings. ACORN had a problem with a few rogue registrars who decided to game the system and fake voter registrations. ACORN has complied fully with the investigations into those false registrations.
It's a non-story, but the GOP wants to set the stage for a November 5th headline of "OBAMA STEALS ELECTION WITH HELP OF ACORN." in the most ironic pot-kettle exchange in election history.
Here's the deal with the ACORN thing:
Acorn pays people to go register people to vote. Those people bring back the voter registration forms, and Acorn sends them in. Some of these people, instead of registering people to vote, filled out the forms with false information so they could get paid for doing nothing. Acorn sends these in but flags them for the elections people so they know to check those ones out. Why do they send in these fraudulent applications in the first place? It is their policy to do so because some states have laws that say you have to. The laws are in place so that an organization can't go around registering people to vote and then throwing out the registration forms for Republicans.
Is it stupid? Yes. Is it illegal? Maybe. HOWEVER, it looks like Acorn does their part to alert election officials to these fraudulent registrations so that they can be double-checked. It takes a giant leap to go from that to "organized voter fraud campaign," because if you register "Mickey Mouse" (yes, a real example) to vote, then in order for that vote to happen Mickey Mouse actually has to show up to vote! Chances of that happening?
The laugh about bitching out ACORN is that your base eats it up, but everyone not in the hardcore base goes "are you seriously attacking a group for registering people to vote? What?"
The optics on this attack are pretty much up there with trying to slam Mother Theresa for not letting people pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
They've decided to pay out on Obama bets early.
I read that, and then re-read it, and I'm amazed it's not an Onion article.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/16/10188/778/245/632331
Wasted hour. You had Supreme Court intervention in 2000, douchebag.
I CAN'T VOTE
GO KNOCK DOORS
Seriously, though, they should probably listen. The frontpager, Brad Smith, is basically telling them to focus on keeping the Dems from getting that 60th Senate seat. He gave them seats to help defend. If the commenters choose not to listen, they have nobody to blame but themselves.
This looks bad.......for Obama.
Does anyone think this is true? Will future Presidential candidates typically get the 2+ million donors required for the Obama strategy to be successful?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
That's my thought. Maybe Hillary could have pulled in Obama-like donations. I'm not convinced anyone else in the last twenty years of Presidential politics could have.
Obama winning with it basically means just about every serious candidate passes on public financing in 2012.
Nah, I think Dean was getting a good taste of what Obama has reaped.
However, I don't see another candidate on the playing field now who is as out-and-out impressive as Obama. Maybe 8 years from now, one will emerge.
Doesn't that imply that public financing needs fixing to not be quite this fragile?
Yeah, I think the internet kind of killed public financing, i don't think people will put up insane numbers like Obama but it'll still probably beat out public financing money.
Joe Wurtzbacher is a non-story. Stop linking KOS wharrgarbl about him.
McCain should reform it. With his reforming credentials it should be no problem.
I feel like I'm watching the old Power Rangers.. where they'd reform the MegaZord every season or two, but it would also do the same crap in the end.
I think it was more the massive enthusiasm gap that killed it this time around
Honestly, and I'm not saying this in some sort of batshit crazy mode, I hope we don't get 60 seats.
60 seats isn't going to be some magic all access pass to progressive government, there are some pretty serious fractures between the blue dog and progressive wings of the party. Obama has already made steps in the right direct to bring the blue dogs into the fold and make sure they help, but I don't know that we'll ever see them on board with the idea of deficit spending during recession, pay down the debt during upticks and they quite simply aren't going to be willing to steam roll what's going to be a vicious republican opposition to push through more spending programs.
I'd much rather see us at 57/58 without Liebermann, so we can get things done by bringing on board the sane republicans but the public at large, and especially the base on the left, doesn't get disappointed that everything doesn't change immediately.
My fiance and I are going to swing MO for Obama. Our coalition of middle-class Jews will wipe the schmutz right out of Washington.
I think I'm converting to Judaism purely for the Yiddish (and the jokes). G_d help me.
You're wrong, seeing all the attention that Joe The Plumber got last night and is continuing to get today. Non-stories don't get national media coverage.
As much fun as it would be to send the GOP to the kids table for the next two years, I think one of the draws of Obama and one of the most important of his campaign promises is to begin healing the partisan divide that's infested the political landscape for the last 10 years. You won't do that if you don't get some Republican buy-in in the next two years.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
A...are you serious?
Yes. A story that gets national media coverage is not a non-story. You're thinking of a non-issue, which the plumber's story definitely is.
Which this whole "Vetting Mr. Joe" thing is.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.