Playing a second color should be doable, but 3 (and 5 for fucks sake!) should be a lot more risky/difficult. I remember reading an article on wizards that the basic thing that separates M:TG from other card games is the land/mana system. By making color/mana screw a thing of the past M:TG becomes just another yugioh, pokemon or WoW:TCG.
Constructed or limited? Constructed you have a point, but drafting shards? Manafixing is like the most important thing in the draft, color screw comes into play sooooo often. There's still a huge risk to running 3(or more) color decks in draft.
I played 5 colors in a sealed deck at a PTQ for Kyoto. I went 2-2 then dropped. Probably should've played it out since my deck was pretty good, but I wasn't feeling well and wanted to get home to see my girlfriend.
In any case, when you have 3 tri-lands, 4 fetch lands, and 4 obelisks it makes your manabase so stable.
I also found out that when you play Tidehollow Sculler and your opponent shows 2 O-rings, there's not much you can do, but laugh and cry at the same time.
Ryadic on
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I think I want to run Blightning Beat Down but all the decks I see run 4 Demigod and 4 Figure and I only have 1 of each. Any suggestions on what can put in?
Yeah, it won't work. You're running a different deck at that point.
What wont work?
Stragint on
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I think I want to run Blightning Beat Down but all the decks I see run 4 Demigod and 4 Figure and I only have 1 of each. Any suggestions on what can put in?
Yeah, it won't work. You're running a different deck at that point.
What wont work?
Not running Demigods or Figures. The deck is weak without those. Figures are way the fuck expensive, but Demigods are pretty easy to get. I'd go for those first, because they're not as replacable.
4 Wrath of God
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Fulminator Mage
2 O-Ring
2 Elspeth (Ajani if I can't get them)
1 Memory Plunder
MTGSalvation has a thread for this deck. I think it looks fun, though it won't be the best deck. I'm also considering running 1 Plunder main deck as a target for Lilianna for those first game control match ups. I don't really ever see it being a deck card, since all decks run an instant or sorcery of some kind.
Ryadic on
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
I'm gonna try to trade for Demigod and Figure tonight at FNM. I probably wont be joining the tournament because Game Stop is running a free entry CoD5 tournament but if I do mana to get 3 Demigod and 3 Figure (which I highly doubt) I'll stay to run my deck. I also need some Wrath of God and Recruit the Unwilling or whatever its called so hopefully I can get lucky tonight.
Stragint on
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
My band is starting to audition drummers tonight, and as part of the "Are you a douchebag?" test, we're going to force prospective bandmates to draft with us.
It should be hilariously awkward.
Anyone caught with 8 cards in hand is automatically not in the band. (Counting is fundamental.)
So I'm thinking about buying a couple boxes just to build up my collection and have more stuff for trade and was wondering what sets you guys thought would be the best options. I can pretty much get a box of anything from future sight to shards, but I don't really know which of those sets have the good chase rares.
I was thinking a box of Shards, lots of good things in mythic rares and an overall decent set, and a box of Lorwynn, mostly for planeswalkers and thoughtsieze and commands, some decent uncommons too. Are there any other really good sets in that bunch? I thought future sight was supposed to be, but all my friends around here who were playing when it was released are saying it's not that good.
So I'm thinking about buying a couple boxes just to build up my collection and have more stuff for trade and was wondering what sets you guys thought would be the best options. I can pretty much get a box of anything from future sight to shards, but I don't really know which of those sets have the good chase rares.
I was thinking a box of Shards, lots of good things in mythic rares and an overall decent set, and a box of Lorwynn, mostly for planeswalkers and thoughtsieze and commands, some decent uncommons too. Are there any other really good sets in that bunch? I thought future sight was supposed to be, but all my friends around here who were playing when it was released are saying it's not that good.
Don't buy a shards box. Not worth it. You only get 4 mythic rares anyway. I would say a box of Lorwyn and a box of Morningtide would be best.
Stragint on
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
I placed 2-2 tonight at FNM. I managed to get 2 Demigod of Revenge. Traded a Violent Ultimatum and Hell's Thunder for one and then got to from the store with trade in credit, I traded 3 release foil Ajani Vengeant and a blue FNM foil from like two months ago for two Demigod of Revenge. I could not find anyone at all with Figure of Destiny for trade so I had no luck there.
Stragint on
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
it is lamentable. Ponza isn't really viable without stone rain and I think it would hurt a 5 color deck badly.
FUCK IT WE'LL BUILD A PONZA DECK
LIST IN 10!
LANDS:
22x WHO GIVES A SHIT
FUCK YOUR LANDS:
4 POISON THE WELL
4 DRAIN THE WELL
4 RAIN OF TEARS
DUDES:
4 MOGG FANATIC
4 LLANOWAR ELF
4 TATTERMUNGE MANIAC
4 ASHENMOOR LIEGE
2 DEUS OF CALAMITY
FUCK YOUR DUDES TOO:
4 CRUEL EDICT (OR TERROR OR EXECUTIONER'S CAPSULE)
4 PYROCLASM (MAYBE FIRESPOUT)
SIDEBOARD:
4 NATURALIZE
4 CLOUDTHRESHER
4 EYES OF THE WISENT
3 ROOTMAZE
EDIT 5 OR 6: WTH MY ENTIRE SIDEBOARD IS GREEN
EDIT 6 OR 7: NO SMILIES!
This may be the finest deck list known to man, based purely on the catagory titles.
SIDEBOAR
I haven't been able to play with anyone much lately, but, it is fun making decks and collecting cards. And I finally found a place that sells the older sets in boosters... i haven't gotten any yet, but they are like 3 dollars, so, i'm gonna go nuts pretty soon.
Well, I'm off to Atlanta for the Grand Prix. Maybe I'll see someone there from the thread? I'll be wearing a bright ass yellow polo that has white stripes on it, cargo shorts, and sandals. I'll have a mini YMCA backpack on too. If you see me, say hi.
it is lamentable. Ponza isn't really viable without stone rain and I think it would hurt a 5 color deck badly.
FUCK IT WE'LL BUILD A PONZA DECK
LIST IN 10!
LANDS:
22x WHO GIVES A SHIT
FUCK YOUR LANDS:
4 POISON THE WELL
4 DRAIN THE WELL
4 RAIN OF TEARS
DUDES:
4 MOGG FANATIC
4 LLANOWAR ELF
4 TATTERMUNGE MANIAC
4 ASHENMOOR LIEGE
2 DEUS OF CALAMITY
FUCK YOUR DUDES TOO:
4 CRUEL EDICT (OR TERROR OR EXECUTIONER'S CAPSULE)
4 PYROCLASM (MAYBE FIRESPOUT)
SIDEBOARD:
4 NATURALIZE
4 CLOUDTHRESHER
4 EYES OF THE WISENT
3 ROOTMAZE
EDIT 5 OR 6: WTH MY ENTIRE SIDEBOARD IS GREEN
EDIT 6 OR 7: NO SMILIES!
This may be the finest deck list known to man, based purely on the catagory titles.
SIDEBOAR
I haven't been able to play with anyone much lately, but, it is fun making decks and collecting cards. And I finally found a place that sells the older sets in boosters... i haven't gotten any yet, but they are like 3 dollars, so, i'm gonna go nuts pretty soon.
it works if you turn off smilies. This deck won't be viable against a lot of the field. I kept modifying it and I basically ended up with a RDW list with a serious "I hate lands" aspect. That would end up being too slow so...
Well, I'm off to Atlanta for the Grand Prix. Maybe I'll see someone there from the thread? I'll be wearing a bright ass yellow polo that has white stripes on it, cargo shorts, and sandals. I'll have a mini YMCA backpack on too. If you see me, say hi.
too far for me, but gl
JeffH on
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
So this is what I'm rolling with right now.
Creatures
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Ashenmoor Gouger
1 Figure of Destiny
3 Tattermunge Maniac
Side Board
3 Infest
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Puncture Bolt
3 Guttural Response
3 Pyroclasm
Now I'm currently considering on removing Figure and Maniac for 4 Boggart Ram-Gang and drop the Pyroclasm and Firespout for 3 lashout and put Pyroclasm in my side board.
I had a decent pool, just I am the most unlucky person when it comes to drawing cards. My final game of the day.
7 card hand with 1 land. Throw it away.
6 card hand. No land. Throw it away
5 card hand. No land. Fucking dammit. THROW IT AWAY.
4 card hand. Forest, Plains, Mountain, Godsire. Fuck. I'll try it.
I almost won this game too. I was at one life and finally cast Godsire, which would have stabalized the game for me, except the bastard casts a flier after that and I can't remove it.
Ryadic on
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
I did take Figure out. Not only does it suck with 12 mountains but it sucks with 1 Figure. I don't plan on making the deck with figure in it for a few weeks or months.
Stragint on
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I had a decent pool, just I am the most unlucky person when it comes to drawing cards. My final game of the day.
7 card hand with 1 land. Throw it away.
6 card hand. No land. Throw it away
5 card hand. No land. Fucking dammit. THROW IT AWAY.
4 card hand. Forest, Plains, Mountain, Godsire. Fuck. I'll try it.
I almost won this game too. I was at one life and finally cast Godsire, which would have stabalized the game for me, except the bastard casts a flier after that and I can't remove it.
Damn, that's too bad.
I'm often tempted by Naya, but even if I start drafting Naya I usually move into Jund by the end.
Especially if I pull any of the Dragons.
Well I would've gone Jund having 2 Jund charms and all, except I had terrible black cards. Only card I would've played in black was Fleshbag Maraurder. I did, however, splash black so I could play the Jund charms, and damn were they amazing.
I did have the Flameblast Dragon too, and he was amazing. Any game I cast him, I won.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
I was thinking of using the 2 flame blast dragons I have in my dragon deck. So far in my Dragon deck I have 2 Broodmate, 2 Shivan Dragon, and 1 Hellkite Overlord. I'm thinking of using two Predator Dragon also. I'm having a little trouble finding decent 1-3 drop creatures to defend me while I build up my mana. I do use Sprouting Thrinax and if I had more Mogg Fanatic I would use them as well. I also have Goblin Deathraider in the deck.
Stragint on
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I was thinking of using the 2 flame blast dragons I have in my dragon deck. So far in my Dragon deck I have 2 Broodmate, 2 Shivan Dragon, and 1 Hellkite Overlord. I'm thinking of using two Predator Dragon also. I'm having a little trouble finding decent 1-3 drop creatures to defend me while I build up my mana. I do use Sprouting Thrinax and if I had more Mogg Fanatic I would use them as well. I also have Goblin Deathraider in the deck.
I'd take out 1 Shivan and 1 Broodmate and put in both Predators and 1 Flameblast.
The triple-red on the Predators can be almost as annoying as the Hellkite's CC, but I find it to be uniformly deadly any time it makes it into the game.
And Broodmates aren't nearly as deadly in constructed as they are in limited, quite easily getting offed by Esper or Jund decks and not being strong enough to push through Bant or Naya if they have a decent board.
I'm thinking of playing with the Penumbra mechanic (which shows up on a whopping 4 creatures); aka "my green dudes die, and black token dudes take their place".
Even IN context, that sounds bad.
Anyway.
Tentative thoughts, looking for suggestions:
Lands (24):
21 x Forest
3 x Yavimaya Hollow
Dudes (20):
4 x Penumbra Bobcat
4 x Penumbra Kavu
4 x Penumbra Spider
4 x Penumbra Wurm
4 x Genesis
Spells/Other Crap (16):
4 x Loxodon Warhammer
4 x Moment's Peace
4 x Harrow
4 x Naturalize
The idea for the deck is to have creatures that are fairly annoying to put down, due to coming back with a token, and making them significantly more dangerous with the warhammer. Of note, this deck (as with most of mine) are designed for 3-5 player FFA games, where the metagame (despite including just about everything we can get our hands on) is usually a bit slower. Attacking early just leaves yourself open for a counterstrike from others. The lifegain (normally shunned, I know) from the warhammer and the moment's peace's would hopefully buy me time or even let me strike people without risking too much in terms of counterattacks.
I'm pondering including Persist creatures as well; primarily Safehold Elite, Heartmender's and/or Kitchen Finks. The latter of which, obviously, are expensive enough that I probably won't sweat them too heavily. While the recursion with Genesis appeals to me (go on, kill my shit, it'll be back!) I recognize that it's probably too expensive to use efficiently. I suppose I could swap in Vernal Blooms instead of Harrow's to give me the mana to be able to use the ability, cast the creature and even equip it in one turn, but that seems awfully slow, even for my usual metagame. Perhaps I should abandon the Genesis' entirely in exchange for some Persist creatures, hoping to get a Hollow out early enough to make killing them even more difficult. I could certainly use a 2-drop, and Safehold Elites would fill that role nicely; 2/2 for 2 that has to be killed twice (barring -1/-1 counter shenanigans).
The Persist creatures play together particularly well with Heartmender, of course, so perhaps I should just look at making another deck for messing with that mechanic instead.
The Persist version also has a nice 2/3/4/5 progression in mana cost across 4 creatures, whereas the Penumbra version runs at a 3/4/5/7 cost, though with the benefit of the tokens not getting smaller, whereas the persist creatures do shrink after death (Heartmender aside).
As I write this, it seems more and more like the persist mechanic would be more effective to play with, but the idea came up originally when thought about the Penumbra creatures, and I kind of want to try to make that work anyway. On the up side, I can essentially make 2 decks for the price of one by just having the extra creatures in with my decks.
Perhaps Llanowar Elves instead of Genesis for a bit of acceleration at the start, which would also play nicely with both versions, which lack a one-drop.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Persist is a much more interesting mechanic to me, particularly when you start combining it with things like heartmender (as you mentioned), blowfly infestation, chainbreaker, or quillspike.
Un-summoning kills token creatures, but it just resets persist creatures.
Also, is there any reason not to run some treetop villages in the deck, if you're playing that many forests?
Un-summoning kills token creatures, but it just resets persist creatures.
Also, is there any reason not to run some treetop villages in the deck, if you're playing that many forests?
True, but I don't face much in the way of mass unsummoning or creature based unsummoning, so it'd often remain card advantage if they're wasting burn, kill or unsummoning against the tokens. Late edit; that said, I'm not dismissing your point about the difference between the two. I'll have to take a look at home at what I have and see what it'd take to build the persist version. I'm sure as hell not dropping $15 on Kitchen Finks, but the others look pretty easy to obtain.
As for Treetop Villiages, I'm not sure I have any, and I generally try to stay away from comes into play tapped lands where possible.
I've got a pretty extensive collection, but I missed out on the Lorwyn, Feudal Japan (Kamisomething) and Timespiral blocks, so there are fairly large gaps in what I have just sitting around at times. Not a bad suggestion.
Super super late edit: instead of Llanowar elves, I could also look to a discard engine of some sort, allowing me to put at least one Genesis in the graveyard without that pesky "get it into play and then killed" step. Looking around now. Perhaps Llanowar Mentor; token generator that creates mana generating tokens. /ponder I could make space for them AND Genesis by removing the Moment's peace's, which are nice to buy time when someone sets into me, but might be an unnecessary addition. Between Genesis and a Mentor, I could make a mana elf per turn for 4 mana.
Alternatively again; Wild Mongrel.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Anyone here tried Momir Vig Basic (MTGO)? My friends and I are thinking about buying avatars as fuck-around sidegame.
i have momir vig, it's fun
sometimes me and my brother will just play with wacky rules (can only use vig's ability at 4) to make things more random. definitely a game of luck but fun nonetheless
It's not a strict rule of thumb, just a general approach to my deck building. I've got a Lightning Slide knockoff that was almost entirely cycling lands for a while, but I toned that down a bit.
However, I'm becomming more and more fond of the Wild Mongrel inclusion for this deck, along with Genesis and the Persist creatures. Pitch everything I want (within reason) early, get 'em back with the Genesis when I can pay for them later.
I will pick up the Penumbra creatures I'm missing, though, and just keep the 16 of them tucked in with the deck. Swap out persists for penumbras and *bam*, somewhat different deck at the cost of swapping 16 cards.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Anyone here tried Momir Vig Basic (MTGO)? My friends and I are thinking about buying avatars as a fuck-around sidegame.
Man, now I want to play some Momir Basic. That was some of the most fun I've ever had on MTGO.
General question: I stopped doing MTGO when they made the poor upgrade earlier this year. Are things more stable and nicer to play? Also, is Jhoira basic still around or did that die out?
I use Harrow in my sliver deck, but it is mostly so I can play a crystalline on turn 3 even if I don't have the lands I want. Since you're mono color and the meta is slow, Kodama's Reach would probably be the better 3 mana "get me lands" spell.
Posts
This may be the finest deck list known to man, based purely on the catagory titles.
I played 5 colors in a sealed deck at a PTQ for Kyoto. I went 2-2 then dropped. Probably should've played it out since my deck was pretty good, but I wasn't feeling well and wanted to get home to see my girlfriend.
In any case, when you have 3 tri-lands, 4 fetch lands, and 4 obelisks it makes your manabase so stable.
I also found out that when you play Tidehollow Sculler and your opponent shows 2 O-rings, there's not much you can do, but laugh and cry at the same time.
What wont work?
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Not running Demigods or Figures. The deck is weak without those. Figures are way the fuck expensive, but Demigods are pretty easy to get. I'd go for those first, because they're not as replacable.
4 Lord of the Undead
4 Death Baron
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
3 Reveillark
4 Thoughtseize
4 Nameless Inversion
3 Crib Swap
3 Makeshift Mannequin
2 O-Ring
2 Lilianna Vess
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Fetid Heath
4 Mutavault
7 Swamp
4 Plains
Possible sideboard, I will probably change it:
4 Wrath of God
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Fulminator Mage
2 O-Ring
2 Elspeth (Ajani if I can't get them)
1 Memory Plunder
MTGSalvation has a thread for this deck. I think it looks fun, though it won't be the best deck. I'm also considering running 1 Plunder main deck as a target for Lilianna for those first game control match ups. I don't really ever see it being a deck card, since all decks run an instant or sorcery of some kind.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
It should be hilariously awkward.
Anyone caught with 8 cards in hand is automatically not in the band. (Counting is fundamental.)
I was thinking a box of Shards, lots of good things in mythic rares and an overall decent set, and a box of Lorwynn, mostly for planeswalkers and thoughtsieze and commands, some decent uncommons too. Are there any other really good sets in that bunch? I thought future sight was supposed to be, but all my friends around here who were playing when it was released are saying it's not that good.
Bitchin' 8-)
me too, but it was standard for me
Don't buy a shards box. Not worth it. You only get 4 mythic rares anyway. I would say a box of Lorwyn and a box of Morningtide would be best.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
SIDEBOAR
I haven't been able to play with anyone much lately, but, it is fun making decks and collecting cards. And I finally found a place that sells the older sets in boosters... i haven't gotten any yet, but they are like 3 dollars, so, i'm gonna go nuts pretty soon.
it works if you turn off smilies. This deck won't be viable against a lot of the field. I kept modifying it and I basically ended up with a RDW list with a serious "I hate lands" aspect. That would end up being too slow so...
I think I'll just wait for the next set.
too far for me, but gl
Creatures
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Ashenmoor Gouger
1 Figure of Destiny
3 Tattermunge Maniac
Spells
4 Incinerate
4 Flame Javelin
4 Magma Spray
4 Shard Volley
4 Blightning
2 Pyroclasm
1 Firespout
Side Board
3 Infest
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Puncture Bolt
3 Guttural Response
3 Pyroclasm
Now I'm currently considering on removing Figure and Maniac for 4 Boggart Ram-Gang and drop the Pyroclasm and Firespout for 3 lashout and put Pyroclasm in my side board.
Creatures
4 Demigod
4 Figure
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Ashenmoor Gouger
Spells
4 Blightning
4 Flame Jav
4 Incinerate
4 Magma Spray
3 Lash Out
2 Unwilling Recruit
Lands
12 Mountains
11 Swamps
Side Board
3 Pyroclasm
3 Infest
3 Guttural Response
4 Smash to Smithereens
2 Vexing Shusher
That is what my ideal deck looks like but its gonna be a few weeks until I get there.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
This makes figure much worse...cairns/hovels/springs instead of swamps?
I have none of those none basic lands so I have to use Mountains and Swamps.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
you should probably take the blightnings out for ram gangs then and run all mountains
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
1-3 drop.
I had a decent pool, just I am the most unlucky person when it comes to drawing cards. My final game of the day.
7 card hand with 1 land. Throw it away.
6 card hand. No land. Throw it away
5 card hand. No land. Fucking dammit. THROW IT AWAY.
4 card hand. Forest, Plains, Mountain, Godsire. Fuck. I'll try it.
I almost won this game too. I was at one life and finally cast Godsire, which would have stabalized the game for me, except the bastard casts a flier after that and I can't remove it.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Damn, that's too bad.
I'm often tempted by Naya, but even if I start drafting Naya I usually move into Jund by the end.
Especially if I pull any of the Dragons.
I did have the Flameblast Dragon too, and he was amazing. Any game I cast him, I won.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I'd take out 1 Shivan and 1 Broodmate and put in both Predators and 1 Flameblast.
The triple-red on the Predators can be almost as annoying as the Hellkite's CC, but I find it to be uniformly deadly any time it makes it into the game.
And Broodmates aren't nearly as deadly in constructed as they are in limited, quite easily getting offed by Esper or Jund decks and not being strong enough to push through Bant or Naya if they have a decent board.
Even IN context, that sounds bad.
Anyway.
Tentative thoughts, looking for suggestions:
Lands (24):
21 x Forest
3 x Yavimaya Hollow
Dudes (20):
4 x Penumbra Bobcat
4 x Penumbra Kavu
4 x Penumbra Spider
4 x Penumbra Wurm
4 x Genesis
Spells/Other Crap (16):
4 x Loxodon Warhammer
4 x Moment's Peace
4 x Harrow
4 x Naturalize
The idea for the deck is to have creatures that are fairly annoying to put down, due to coming back with a token, and making them significantly more dangerous with the warhammer. Of note, this deck (as with most of mine) are designed for 3-5 player FFA games, where the metagame (despite including just about everything we can get our hands on) is usually a bit slower. Attacking early just leaves yourself open for a counterstrike from others. The lifegain (normally shunned, I know) from the warhammer and the moment's peace's would hopefully buy me time or even let me strike people without risking too much in terms of counterattacks.
I'm pondering including Persist creatures as well; primarily Safehold Elite, Heartmender's and/or Kitchen Finks. The latter of which, obviously, are expensive enough that I probably won't sweat them too heavily. While the recursion with Genesis appeals to me (go on, kill my shit, it'll be back!) I recognize that it's probably too expensive to use efficiently. I suppose I could swap in Vernal Blooms instead of Harrow's to give me the mana to be able to use the ability, cast the creature and even equip it in one turn, but that seems awfully slow, even for my usual metagame. Perhaps I should abandon the Genesis' entirely in exchange for some Persist creatures, hoping to get a Hollow out early enough to make killing them even more difficult. I could certainly use a 2-drop, and Safehold Elites would fill that role nicely; 2/2 for 2 that has to be killed twice (barring -1/-1 counter shenanigans).
The Persist creatures play together particularly well with Heartmender, of course, so perhaps I should just look at making another deck for messing with that mechanic instead.
The Persist version also has a nice 2/3/4/5 progression in mana cost across 4 creatures, whereas the Penumbra version runs at a 3/4/5/7 cost, though with the benefit of the tokens not getting smaller, whereas the persist creatures do shrink after death (Heartmender aside).
As I write this, it seems more and more like the persist mechanic would be more effective to play with, but the idea came up originally when thought about the Penumbra creatures, and I kind of want to try to make that work anyway. On the up side, I can essentially make 2 decks for the price of one by just having the extra creatures in with my decks.
Perhaps Llanowar Elves instead of Genesis for a bit of acceleration at the start, which would also play nicely with both versions, which lack a one-drop.
also, where the harmonizes at
Un-summoning kills token creatures, but it just resets persist creatures.
Also, is there any reason not to run some treetop villages in the deck, if you're playing that many forests?
True, but I don't face much in the way of mass unsummoning or creature based unsummoning, so it'd often remain card advantage if they're wasting burn, kill or unsummoning against the tokens. Late edit; that said, I'm not dismissing your point about the difference between the two. I'll have to take a look at home at what I have and see what it'd take to build the persist version. I'm sure as hell not dropping $15 on Kitchen Finks, but the others look pretty easy to obtain.
As for Treetop Villiages, I'm not sure I have any, and I generally try to stay away from comes into play tapped lands where possible.
I've got a pretty extensive collection, but I missed out on the Lorwyn, Feudal Japan (Kamisomething) and Timespiral blocks, so there are fairly large gaps in what I have just sitting around at times. Not a bad suggestion.
Super super late edit: instead of Llanowar elves, I could also look to a discard engine of some sort, allowing me to put at least one Genesis in the graveyard without that pesky "get it into play and then killed" step. Looking around now. Perhaps Llanowar Mentor; token generator that creates mana generating tokens. /ponder I could make space for them AND Genesis by removing the Moment's peace's, which are nice to buy time when someone sets into me, but might be an unnecessary addition. Between Genesis and a Mentor, I could make a mana elf per turn for 4 mana.
Alternatively again; Wild Mongrel.
That's silly, there are a bunch of useful ones...
i have momir vig, it's fun
sometimes me and my brother will just play with wacky rules (can only use vig's ability at 4) to make things more random. definitely a game of luck but fun nonetheless
It's not a strict rule of thumb, just a general approach to my deck building. I've got a Lightning Slide knockoff that was almost entirely cycling lands for a while, but I toned that down a bit.
However, I'm becomming more and more fond of the Wild Mongrel inclusion for this deck, along with Genesis and the Persist creatures. Pitch everything I want (within reason) early, get 'em back with the Genesis when I can pay for them later.
I will pick up the Penumbra creatures I'm missing, though, and just keep the 16 of them tucked in with the deck. Swap out persists for penumbras and *bam*, somewhat different deck at the cost of swapping 16 cards.
Man, now I want to play some Momir Basic. That was some of the most fun I've ever had on MTGO.
General question: I stopped doing MTGO when they made the poor upgrade earlier this year. Are things more stable and nicer to play? Also, is Jhoira basic still around or did that die out?
I use Harrow in my sliver deck, but it is mostly so I can play a crystalline on turn 3 even if I don't have the lands I want. Since you're mono color and the meta is slow, Kodama's Reach would probably be the better 3 mana "get me lands" spell.