Subforum Raids
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Can we have this permanently added to the rules as kind of a no-no for everybody?
SE++ had it temporarily in the rules after a couple of people were launched into orbit for it and G&T's always kind of had the unspoken "even joke about this and we'll fuck up you and your dog" policy. At the moment, G&T's Wii thread seems to be... well... shall we say "receiving undue attention," so... before there's backlash and like, 15 people banned for a rule not in place yet (again)... well, I think you see where I'm going here.
SE++ had it temporarily in the rules after a couple of people were launched into orbit for it and G&T's always kind of had the unspoken "even joke about this and we'll fuck up you and your dog" policy. At the moment, G&T's Wii thread seems to be... well... shall we say "receiving undue attention," so... before there's backlash and like, 15 people banned for a rule not in place yet (again)... well, I think you see where I'm going here.
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Rankenphile did not deserve that treatment, yes SE++ were in the wrong for the sub-forum 'raid', but it wouldn't of happened if people weren't being huge dicks in the Wii thread.
I'll fucking knock the shit out of any SE poster who raids G&T, but I'm too tired to wade through it right now I'm afraid.
Just as long as it doesn't go unpunished on both sides then i'll be happy; was an ugly event.
This is the version of events that's been given to me.
After wading through both threads, I can safely say that this is exactly what happened.
Only replace "reacted poorly" with "reacted like a school bus full of retarded children that was just driven off a bridge."
That's pretty much how I thought it happened, too. I even asked SE not to turn it into a raid, and told a couple dudes from SE that went into the thread not to turn it into one.
I honestly don't think it was a huge deal, it was just a hornet's nest that got stirred up for a minute, but it died back down and is back to normal now.
i don't know how 28 got in there
anyways, Rank posted
and a bunch of people responded with mild hostility and disbelief, but weren't dick dicks
which is somewhat understandable, given that nobody knows who rank is, or what his relation to Nintendo is, though the hostility wasn't necessarily deserved. also not everyone was hostile - a number of people responded reasonably
the hostility thing sort of snowballed from there with no real malicious intent (just a result of jokes building on jokes)
Until we get to:
Of course, Rank's first post is at 5:17, while the post mocking G&T was made at 5:43, and none of his posts mention the PS3 at all.
And then more hostility snowballed from Imran's post, just bickering/commenting/snide remarking over whether or not Rank was being a dick
And then Blood's End (who is already jailed) goes in and is a huge dick
and that's all I've got. I think it fizzes out after a while.
Definitely maybe.
Rank, is it possible for you to explain the Wii's beta process?
You're asking way too much, dude. Seriously.
edit: Nusch I saw that! You're on notice, buddy!
Wasn't that what grandma's house was?
I missed it, but I don't think that went very well.
People will be too busy trying to sort out the actual topic to start drama.
"So, are we trolling some game system, insulting nerds, or giving someone advice? I am so confused!"
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Sent you a pretty lengthy PM, Tube...
I wish I knew. All I know is that my brother has worked there for around 12 years or so, and has the great fortune to be included in a number of Nintendo's beta processes. I got to try out Metroid Prime: Hunters before it came out, and mentioned the voice chat in the lobby feature in a similar thread (and was met by a similar response, which is why I don't frequently go into those types of threads any more). He's run demos for VIPs and on the show floor at E3 for a number of years, and brought me with him in 2005 for E3, but that's about the extent of my knowledge of the program itself.
And with that, I'm done with this whole situation, unless the mods need to speak to me more about it. As far as I was aware, the entire thing had died down entirely and was in the past, until I clicked on this thread a few minutes ago.
I don't think any forum is better then any other forum.
You're all fucking retards.
My G&T take: Many G&Ters was being large douches, and none of the SE++ers that posted, least of all Rankenphile, did a single wrong thing.
People in G&T treat discussion threads like fap-happy parties. That's what an appreciation thread is, not a discussion thread. People automatically treat a dissenting opinion as a troll and it really isn't the dissenting opinion that derails these threads, it is the inability for people to accept an opinion contrary to their own.
G&T is continuously guilty of this in many, many threads.
and SE++ is innocent
really
garden of fucking SEden
I don't know or care if they are. Whether the entire universe is guilty of it or not doesn't make it right or acceptable in G&T.
Yeah the G&T guys can be pretty touchy, though I've seen people come into the Wii thread and post potentially negative things about it and walk away unscathed. I've done it myself, I started a discussion about the unlikelihood of 4 player SSB:B like a month ago.
You just need to choose your words well and present your points in a balanced manner (i.e. show that you understand the point of view of both sides). Don't pull a Terrorbyte, basically. If you come in to the thread and say "I think the Wii will not be that great because of X" expect the guys who spend all day talking about it to say "Well that's not true because of Y".
It's just all too often that after the hypothetical dilaogue above occurs, someone will either say "man you guys can't take any shit in here, grow up" or "man stop trolling" when they really don't need to and then we're off down the slippery slope.
Not that I'm defending what the dudes did to Rankenphile this morning. That was totally baseless. He didn't even say the Wii wasn't any good, just that he had played it at a mates house. Now I can see the point to the flattening of the Megathreads.
It's extremely hard to stay on topic, civil, and non-xenophobic after 10 pages. I mean, that's a semi-arbitrary estimation on my part, but I've never seen a thoroughly-inviting thread after the 10 page mark.
There are some exceptions. I think the Final Fantasy XII thread has pretty much stayed the course. Don't get me wrong, there are exceptions to the rule, but my point is that those are exceptions.
I'm not sure there really is a perfect solution, personally, but it is undeniable that certain threads breed rabid fanboyism and xenophobia. I'm not saying trolls don't exist. I'm sure some people post dissenting "opinions" just to be cocks. But people are not patient here, and never grant any benefit of the doubt. Instead of waiting to see, they just try to pulverize people that don't agree with them.
Also, as you pointed out, I really found the whole thing absurd because Rank wasn't even saying the Wii was bad, he was saying the Wii was good. One poster - it might have been Dourin, but it might have been someone else - implied that Rank held different opinions than most of the posters in the thread and thus probably shouldn't post in it.
This was especially absurd for two reasons:
1) Rank actually DID agree with most of the people in the thread.
2) As I said, it's not an appreciation thread where people must unanimously worship the Wii, at least in my opinion. It's a discussion thread. Civilly giving a dissenting opinion (which Rank wasn't even doing, mind you) should not only be fine, it should be supported, because there is no such thing as real discussion without an opposing viewpoint.
Partly it all stemmed from an odd choice of words on Rankenphile's part which lead to a misunderstanding. He said his mate's dad had one for a "Beta test". The G&T dudes got incredulous because consoles historically don't give out early units to members of the public or employees for testing like games do (MMO's especially).
Rank took their reaction to the words "betatest" as doubt in his assertion that he'd played the console and after that nobody knew what the fuck. If the Wii thread had just stepped back and said "What do you mean by betatest?" and Rank and said "Well my Dad's mate works for NOA so he got a unit pre-launch, I dunno if it was for testing purposes or whatever" it could have all been resolved. Unfortunately ANGRY FORUM MAN syndrome took over on both sides.
Pretty much summed it up perfectly.
I won't argue that Rank didn't return the anger hurled at him, but you must see how G&T folk quite often literally AIM to put people in a defensive position. I think Rank's attitude and response was completely justified considering how often this exact thing happens here. Frankly, I'm glad he called them out on it.
As to him poorly wording his initial post, well - ok. But I contend that it doesn't really matter. He wasn't bragging about playing the Wii early. He was trying to say that Wii Sports was cool. Therefore, attacking him was nonsense. What is the end result of proving him wrong, anyway? Would proving him wrong prove that Wii Sports sucked, or didn't suck? I could understand if he came in and said "OMG guys I just finished Twilight Princess and boy did that game blow." Instead, he made a generic, positive comment about a game. And he got verbally gang-raped for it. It was such a stupid, pointless attack because it wouldn't have amounted to anything anyway.
"Hey, Wii Sports is great." "Fuck you asshole, you fucking lying dicklicker, you didn't play it." That's what the conversation boiled down to. And that's trolling. There's no reason to post that way, even if they did not believe Rank one iota, unless they wanted him to respond in a negative manner back or to make him leave.
I think only one side of this little flame-fest was in the wrong here.
This is kind of what I'm talking about, I'm not sure why you've taken the time to pick apart my post because there was nothing inflammatory in there. There was nothing inflammatory in Rankenphile's post, but the Wii thread still chose to pick apart his post and then the flaming started. I've no idea why this happens on forums so much. To continue the comparison, I could choose to respond to you by going "LOOK FUCK YOU MAN STOP PUTTING ME DOWN" and then we'd be in an argument (although not really cos this is the Monkey Den).
G&T were being the sole cocks until the other guys started coming in and feeding the argument. The guys who orignally flamed Rank should have been jailed straight away, as were the guys who came in after a few pages and kept the argument going. I'm not going to go out and say "blah blah SE were trolling blah" because that's an untrue generalisation.
The problem with internet forums is that if someone puts you down or attacks you, it's there for everyone to see forever that you got seeeerved (or in the case of the Wii thread until people spam their way through 90 pages in a weekend and the thread gets closed for a new one). The only way to "win" a forum dispute is to have the last word, which is where Angry Forum Man syndrome kicks in: you keep going until the other guy gives up or you both get banned. When you're allowed to take 10 minutes to pick apart the other guy's argument, there's no other way to "win" because given that time both parties can always find a point (no matter how stupid it is) to cling on to. It's also caused by really really lonely dudes who got confused somewhere and assume that people replying to your posts = meaningful social interaction.
Basically, the guys who flamed Rankenphile unfairly should have been jailed for their efforts. That would have calmed things down right away but assuming it didn't the guys who came in and kept the argument alive should have also been jailed and a mod should have told everyone to stop arguing about pointless shit. Problem solved.
That would stop any future troubles as well, but if it happened again it'd be up to the party who gets flamed to be the bigger man and ignore the idiots, because they're probably just bored and lonely and want someone to talk to about anything. Even if that anything is how big of a faggot cockmuncher the other dude is. If the flames keep up, then report them to the mods and let them sort it out.