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Subforum Raids

Can we have this permanently added to the rules as kind of a no-no for everybody?

SE++ had it temporarily in the rules after a couple of people were launched into orbit for it and G&T's always kind of had the unspoken "even joke about this and we'll fuck up you and your dog" policy. At the moment, G&T's Wii thread seems to be... well... shall we say "receiving undue attention," so... before there's backlash and like, 15 people banned for a rule not in place yet (again)... well, I think you see where I'm going here.

Aroduc on
«13

Posts

  • LightReaperLightReaper Registered User
    edited October 2006
    I post almost solely in g&t and i'm fucking appalled.

    Rankenphile did not deserve that treatment, yes SE++ were in the wrong for the sub-forum 'raid', but it wouldn't of happened if people weren't being huge dicks in the Wii thread.

    LightReaper on
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited October 2006
    Then they should be jailed too. *shrug*

    Aroduc on
  • rayofashrayofash Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Hasn't somebody done this before, saying the exact same thing ("My brother works for Nintendo and has a Wii! It stinks!")?

    rayofash on
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited October 2006
    It strikes me as one of those things that's so obviously common sense that I can't imagine we really need a specific rule for it. It's like when people got shitty about being banned for thread assassination because it wasn't in the rules. Fucking duh, you really thought it was ok to do it?

    I'll fucking knock the shit out of any SE poster who raids G&T, but I'm too tired to wade through it right now I'm afraid.

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
  • LightReaperLightReaper Registered User
    edited October 2006
    It strikes me as one of those things that's so obviously common sense that I can't imagine we really need a specific rule for it. It's like when people got shitty about being banned for thread assassination because it wasn't in the rules. Fucking duh, you really thought it was ok to do it?

    I'll fucking knock the shit out of any SE poster who raids G&T, but I'm too tired to wade through it right now I'm afraid.

    Just as long as it doesn't go unpunished on both sides then i'll be happy; was an ugly event.

    LightReaper on
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited October 2006
    Rank posted in the Wii thread about his experiences with a beta unit. They reacted poorly to it and he mentioned it here. A couple of people, myself included, thought it would be humorous to poke G&T with a stick. It was pretty much a non-event.

    This is the version of events that's been given to me.

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
  • GABBO GABBO GABBOGABBO GABBO GABBO Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Rank posted in the Wii thread about his experiences with a beta unit. They reacted poorly to it and he mentioned it here. A couple of people, myself included, thought it would be humorous to poke G&T with a stick. It was pretty much a non-event.

    This is the version of events that's been given to me.

    After wading through both threads, I can safely say that this is exactly what happened.
    Only replace "reacted poorly" with "reacted like a school bus full of retarded children that was just driven off a bridge."

    GABBO GABBO GABBO on
  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 2006
    Rank posted in the Wii thread about his experiences with a beta unit. They reacted poorly to it and he mentioned it here. A couple of people, myself included, thought it would be humorous to poke G&T with a stick. It was pretty much a non-event.

    This is the version of events that's been given to me.

    That's pretty much how I thought it happened, too. I even asked SE not to turn it into a raid, and told a couple dudes from SE that went into the thread not to turn it into one.

    I honestly don't think it was a huge deal, it was just a hornet's nest that got stirred up for a minute, but it died back down and is back to normal now.

    Rankenphile on
  • JinniganJinnigan Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Things start at approximately page 28

    Jinnigan on
    whatifihadnofriendsshortenedsiggy2.jpg
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited October 2006
    so which guys acted up? doesn't sound like rank did anything wrong.

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
  • JinniganJinnigan Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    and when i say 28 what i mean to say is 45

    i don't know how 28 got in there

    anyways, Rank posted
    So last night I got to go to my brother's house and play with his Wii, as he's in the beta test.

    Wii Sports is surprisingly fucking fun, you guys.

    and a bunch of people responded with mild hostility and disbelief, but weren't dick dicks

    which is somewhat understandable, given that nobody knows who rank is, or what his relation to Nintendo is, though the hostility wasn't necessarily deserved. also not everyone was hostile - a number of people responded reasonably


    the hostility thing sort of snowballed from there with no real malicious intent (just a result of jokes building on jokes)

    Until we get to:
    Imran wrote:
    Imran wrote:
    okay, fine.

    Don't fucking believe me.

    because it is utterly unthinkable that someone who lives in washington might be related to a Nintendo employee.
    Send me the Wii and I'll believe you.

    Or, I guess, photos? I like the first option better.
    You know, even telling us this, if he's not lying, is almost certainly against the NDA. Pictures'll probably get the guy fired.
    I say do it because he's acting like kind of a dick about it.

    I'm acting like kind of a dick how exactly?

    You fucking asstards are the god-damned reason megathreads need to be fucking shut down in the first place.
    I mean, considering you were intending to troll in the first place
    Dynagrip wrote:
    You should tell them how awful it was.

    Ha ha! Yeah tell them it sucks.

    "It was okay, I guess. I mean, yeah, the gameplay was sort of intriguing, but it's no PS3, that's for damn sure."

    And then stand back and watch them explode into a rage of gelatinous nerdfat.

    I'm not sure why you think you're better than anyone else, but I'm happy you have that kind of self-esteem.

    Of course, Rank's first post is at 5:17, while the post mocking G&T was made at 5:43, and none of his posts mention the PS3 at all.

    And then more hostility snowballed from Imran's post, just bickering/commenting/snide remarking over whether or not Rank was being a dick

    And then Blood's End (who is already jailed) goes in and is a huge dick

    and that's all I've got. I think it fizzes out after a while.

    Jinnigan on
    whatifihadnofriendsshortenedsiggy2.jpg
  • anyprophetanyprophet Registered User
    edited October 2006
    I think it's pretty obvious that people from SE++ are vastly superior, in every single way, to people from G&T. Therefore G&T should just be shut down.

    anyprophet on
    chatthreadsig.png
  • JinniganJinnigan Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    i can't tell if you're being serious or not

    Jinnigan on
    whatifihadnofriendsshortenedsiggy2.jpg
  • anyprophetanyprophet Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Jinnigan wrote:
    i can't tell if you're being serious or not

    Definitely maybe.

    anyprophet on
    chatthreadsig.png
  • JinniganJinnigan Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    So

    Rank, is it possible for you to explain the Wii's beta process?

    Jinnigan on
    whatifihadnofriendsshortenedsiggy2.jpg
  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    so which guys acted up? doesn't sound like rank did anything wrong.
    Bloods End was pretty much blatantly trolling. He's been jailed for it already, though, so whatever.

    Kaputa on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    Uh, common sense?

    Munkus Beaver on
    Steam name: munkus_beaver
    WiiU: munkusbeaver and Nintendo ID (3DS thinger): 0619-4510-9772
    Blizzard thing: munkus#1952
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    Twitter for health updates: https://twitter.com/MunkusBeaver
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  • anyprophetanyprophet Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Uh, common sense?

    You're asking way too much, dude. Seriously.


    edit: Nusch I saw that! You're on notice, buddy!

    anyprophet on
    chatthreadsig.png
  • NucshNucsh Registered User
    edited October 2006
    I'll put you on notice.

    Nucsh on
    [SIGPIC]GIANT ENEMY BEAR[/SIGPIC]
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    I wasn't aware we had a drama shortage. Is it school holidays or something?

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • AshcroftAshcroft LOL The PayloadRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Have Whippy merge the entire forum into one thread. That should stir things up enough to get us through the winter. In fact, I'll pm him, my superpower is that Whippy cannot resist carrying out instructions that I pm him.

    Ashcroft on
    foxs1.png
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    edited October 2006
    Ashcroft wrote:
    Have Whippy merge the entire forum into one thread. That should stir things up enough to get us through the winter. In fact, I'll pm him, my superpower is that Whippy cannot resist carrying out instructions that I pm him.

    Wasn't that what grandma's house was?

    I missed it, but I don't think that went very well.

    DJ Eebs on
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    Ashcroft wrote:
    Have Whippy merge the entire forum into one thread. That should stir things up enough to get us through the winter. In fact, I'll pm him, my superpower is that Whippy cannot resist carrying out instructions that I pm him.

    People will be too busy trying to sort out the actual topic to start drama.

    "So, are we trolling some game system, insulting nerds, or giving someone advice? I am so confused!"

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited October 2006
    I've heard SE's side of the story, I'd like some G&T guys to give me their opinions, by PM if you want. I'm reading through the thread now.

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
  • TalonrazorTalonrazor Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I've heard SE's side of the story, I'd like some G&T guys to give me their opinions, by PM if you want. I'm reading through the thread now.

    Sent you a pretty lengthy PM, Tube...

    Talonrazor on
    sig4.jpg
  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 2006
    Jinnigan wrote:
    So

    Rank, is it possible for you to explain the Wii's beta process?

    I wish I knew. All I know is that my brother has worked there for around 12 years or so, and has the great fortune to be included in a number of Nintendo's beta processes. I got to try out Metroid Prime: Hunters before it came out, and mentioned the voice chat in the lobby feature in a similar thread (and was met by a similar response, which is why I don't frequently go into those types of threads any more). He's run demos for VIPs and on the show floor at E3 for a number of years, and brought me with him in 2005 for E3, but that's about the extent of my knowledge of the program itself.

    And with that, I'm done with this whole situation, unless the mods need to speak to me more about it. As far as I was aware, the entire thing had died down entirely and was in the past, until I clicked on this thread a few minutes ago.

    Rankenphile on
  • anyprophetanyprophet Registered User
    edited October 2006
    The truth is both "sides" of this little spat are overreacting.

    I don't think any forum is better then any other forum.

    You're all fucking retards.

    anyprophet on
    chatthreadsig.png
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited October 2006
    There is a bunch of really dumb shit in G&T and there is a bunch of really dumb shit in SE and both set of forumers like to pretend that their dumb shit doesn't exist when they're ragging on the other set of forumers for having a bunch of really dumb shit.

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
  • anyprophetanyprophet Registered User
    edited October 2006
    *taps his nose*

    anyprophet on
    chatthreadsig.png
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I've heard SE's side of the story, I'd like some G&T guys to give me their opinions, by PM if you want. I'm reading through the thread now.

    My G&T take: Many G&Ters was being large douches, and none of the SE++ers that posted, least of all Rankenphile, did a single wrong thing.

    People in G&T treat discussion threads like fap-happy parties. That's what an appreciation thread is, not a discussion thread. People automatically treat a dissenting opinion as a troll and it really isn't the dissenting opinion that derails these threads, it is the inability for people to accept an opinion contrary to their own.

    G&T is continuously guilty of this in many, many threads.

    Drez on
  • KazhiimKazhiim __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2006
    Drez wrote:
    G&T is continuously guilty of this in many, many threads.

    and SE++ is innocent

    really


    garden of fucking SEden

    Kazhiim on
    lost_sig2.png
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Kazhiim wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    G&T is continuously guilty of this in many, many threads.

    and SE++ is innocent

    really


    garden of fucking SEden

    I don't know or care if they are. Whether the entire universe is guilty of it or not doesn't make it right or acceptable in G&T.

    Drez on
  • bananabreadbananabread Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Drez wrote:
    I've heard SE's side of the story, I'd like some G&T guys to give me their opinions, by PM if you want. I'm reading through the thread now.

    My G&T take: Many G&Ters was being large douches, and none of the SE++ers that posted, least of all Rankenphile, did a single wrong thing.

    People in G&T treat discussion threads like fap-happy parties. That's what an appreciation thread is, not a discussion thread. People automatically treat a dissenting opinion as a troll and it really isn't the dissenting opinion that derails these threads, it is the inability for people to accept an opinion contrary to their own.

    G&T is continuously guilty of this in many, many threads.

    Yeah the G&T guys can be pretty touchy, though I've seen people come into the Wii thread and post potentially negative things about it and walk away unscathed. I've done it myself, I started a discussion about the unlikelihood of 4 player SSB:B like a month ago.

    You just need to choose your words well and present your points in a balanced manner (i.e. show that you understand the point of view of both sides). Don't pull a Terrorbyte, basically. If you come in to the thread and say "I think the Wii will not be that great because of X" expect the guys who spend all day talking about it to say "Well that's not true because of Y".

    It's just all too often that after the hypothetical dilaogue above occurs, someone will either say "man you guys can't take any shit in here, grow up" or "man stop trolling" when they really don't need to and then we're off down the slippery slope.

    Not that I'm defending what the dudes did to Rankenphile this morning. That was totally baseless. He didn't even say the Wii wasn't any good, just that he had played it at a mates house. Now I can see the point to the flattening of the Megathreads.

    bananabread on
    your sig was too long <3 orik
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Drez wrote:
    I've heard SE's side of the story, I'd like some G&T guys to give me their opinions, by PM if you want. I'm reading through the thread now.

    My G&T take: Many G&Ters was being large douches, and none of the SE++ers that posted, least of all Rankenphile, did a single wrong thing.

    People in G&T treat discussion threads like fap-happy parties. That's what an appreciation thread is, not a discussion thread. People automatically treat a dissenting opinion as a troll and it really isn't the dissenting opinion that derails these threads, it is the inability for people to accept an opinion contrary to their own.

    G&T is continuously guilty of this in many, many threads.

    Yeah the G&T guys can be pretty touchy, though I've seen people come into the Wii thread and post potentially negative things about it and walk away unscathed. I've done it myself, I started a discussion about the unlikelihood of 4 player SSB:B like a month ago.

    You just need to choose your words well and present your points in a balanced manner (i.e. show that you understand the point of view of both sides). Don't pull a Terrorbyte, basically. If you come in to the thread and say "I think the Wii will not be that great because of X" expect the guys who spend all day talking about it to say "Well that's not true because of Y".

    It's just all too often that after the hypothetical dilaogue above occurs, someone will either say "man you guys can't take any shit in here, grow up" or "man stop trolling" when they really don't need to and then we're off down the slippery slope.

    Not that I'm defending what the dudes did to Rankenphile this morning. That was totally baseless. He didn't even say the Wii wasn't any good, just that he had played it at a mates house. Now I can see the point to the flattening of the Megathreads.

    It's extremely hard to stay on topic, civil, and non-xenophobic after 10 pages. I mean, that's a semi-arbitrary estimation on my part, but I've never seen a thoroughly-inviting thread after the 10 page mark.

    There are some exceptions. I think the Final Fantasy XII thread has pretty much stayed the course. Don't get me wrong, there are exceptions to the rule, but my point is that those are exceptions.

    I'm not sure there really is a perfect solution, personally, but it is undeniable that certain threads breed rabid fanboyism and xenophobia. I'm not saying trolls don't exist. I'm sure some people post dissenting "opinions" just to be cocks. But people are not patient here, and never grant any benefit of the doubt. Instead of waiting to see, they just try to pulverize people that don't agree with them.

    Also, as you pointed out, I really found the whole thing absurd because Rank wasn't even saying the Wii was bad, he was saying the Wii was good. One poster - it might have been Dourin, but it might have been someone else - implied that Rank held different opinions than most of the posters in the thread and thus probably shouldn't post in it.

    This was especially absurd for two reasons:

    1) Rank actually DID agree with most of the people in the thread.
    2) As I said, it's not an appreciation thread where people must unanimously worship the Wii, at least in my opinion. It's a discussion thread. Civilly giving a dissenting opinion (which Rank wasn't even doing, mind you) should not only be fine, it should be supported, because there is no such thing as real discussion without an opposing viewpoint.

    Drez on
  • bananabreadbananabread Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Drez wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    I've heard SE's side of the story, I'd like some G&T guys to give me their opinions, by PM if you want. I'm reading through the thread now.

    My G&T take: Many G&Ters was being large douches, and none of the SE++ers that posted, least of all Rankenphile, did a single wrong thing.

    People in G&T treat discussion threads like fap-happy parties. That's what an appreciation thread is, not a discussion thread. People automatically treat a dissenting opinion as a troll and it really isn't the dissenting opinion that derails these threads, it is the inability for people to accept an opinion contrary to their own.

    G&T is continuously guilty of this in many, many threads.

    Yeah the G&T guys can be pretty touchy, though I've seen people come into the Wii thread and post potentially negative things about it and walk away unscathed. I've done it myself, I started a discussion about the unlikelihood of 4 player SSB:B like a month ago.

    You just need to choose your words well and present your points in a balanced manner (i.e. show that you understand the point of view of both sides). Don't pull a Terrorbyte, basically. If you come in to the thread and say "I think the Wii will not be that great because of X" expect the guys who spend all day talking about it to say "Well that's not true because of Y".

    It's just all too often that after the hypothetical dilaogue above occurs, someone will either say "man you guys can't take any shit in here, grow up" or "man stop trolling" when they really don't need to and then we're off down the slippery slope.

    Not that I'm defending what the dudes did to Rankenphile this morning. That was totally baseless. He didn't even say the Wii wasn't any good, just that he had played it at a mates house. Now I can see the point to the flattening of the Megathreads.

    It's extremely hard to stay on topic, civil, and non-xenophobic after 10 pages. I mean, that's a semi-arbitrary estimation on my part, but I've never seen a thoroughly-inviting thread after the 10 page mark.

    There are some exceptions. I think the Final Fantasy XII thread has pretty much stayed the course. Don't get me wrong, there are exceptions to the rule, but my point is that those are exceptions.

    I'm not sure there really is a perfect solution, personally, but it is undeniable that certain threads breed rabid fanboyism and xenophobia. I'm not saying trolls don't exist. I'm sure some people post dissenting "opinions" just to be cocks. But people are not patient here, and never grant any benefit of the doubt. Instead of waiting to see, they just try to pulverize people that don't agree with them.

    Also, as you pointed out, I really found the whole thing absurd because Rank wasn't even saying the Wii was bad, he was saying the Wii was good. One poster - it might have been Dourin, but it might have been someone else - implied that Rank held different opinions than most of the posters in the thread and thus probably shouldn't post in it.

    This was especially absurd for two reasons:

    1) Rank actually DID agree with more of the people in the thread.
    2) As I said, it's not an appreciation thread where people must unanimously worship the Wii, at least in my opinion. It's a discussion thread. Civilly giving a dissenting opinion (which Rank wasn't even doing, mind you) should not only be fine, it should be supported, because there is no such thing as real discussion without an opposing viewpoint.

    Partly it all stemmed from an odd choice of words on Rankenphile's part which lead to a misunderstanding. He said his mate's dad had one for a "Beta test". The G&T dudes got incredulous because consoles historically don't give out early units to members of the public or employees for testing like games do (MMO's especially).

    Rank took their reaction to the words "betatest" as doubt in his assertion that he'd played the console and after that nobody knew what the fuck. If the Wii thread had just stepped back and said "What do you mean by betatest?" and Rank and said "Well my Dad's mate works for NOA so he got a unit pre-launch, I dunno if it was for testing purposes or whatever" it could have all been resolved. Unfortunately ANGRY FORUM MAN syndrome took over on both sides.

    bananabread on
    your sig was too long <3 orik
  • LightReaperLightReaper Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Banana bread... <3

    Pretty much summed it up perfectly.

    LightReaper on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Drez wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    I've heard SE's side of the story, I'd like some G&T guys to give me their opinions, by PM if you want. I'm reading through the thread now.

    My G&T take: Many G&Ters was being large douches, and none of the SE++ers that posted, least of all Rankenphile, did a single wrong thing.

    People in G&T treat discussion threads like fap-happy parties. That's what an appreciation thread is, not a discussion thread. People automatically treat a dissenting opinion as a troll and it really isn't the dissenting opinion that derails these threads, it is the inability for people to accept an opinion contrary to their own.

    G&T is continuously guilty of this in many, many threads.

    Yeah the G&T guys can be pretty touchy, though I've seen people come into the Wii thread and post potentially negative things about it and walk away unscathed. I've done it myself, I started a discussion about the unlikelihood of 4 player SSB:B like a month ago.

    You just need to choose your words well and present your points in a balanced manner (i.e. show that you understand the point of view of both sides). Don't pull a Terrorbyte, basically. If you come in to the thread and say "I think the Wii will not be that great because of X" expect the guys who spend all day talking about it to say "Well that's not true because of Y".

    It's just all too often that after the hypothetical dilaogue above occurs, someone will either say "man you guys can't take any shit in here, grow up" or "man stop trolling" when they really don't need to and then we're off down the slippery slope.

    Not that I'm defending what the dudes did to Rankenphile this morning. That was totally baseless. He didn't even say the Wii wasn't any good, just that he had played it at a mates house. Now I can see the point to the flattening of the Megathreads.

    It's extremely hard to stay on topic, civil, and non-xenophobic after 10 pages. I mean, that's a semi-arbitrary estimation on my part, but I've never seen a thoroughly-inviting thread after the 10 page mark.

    There are some exceptions. I think the Final Fantasy XII thread has pretty much stayed the course. Don't get me wrong, there are exceptions to the rule, but my point is that those are exceptions.

    I'm not sure there really is a perfect solution, personally, but it is undeniable that certain threads breed rabid fanboyism and xenophobia. I'm not saying trolls don't exist. I'm sure some people post dissenting "opinions" just to be cocks. But people are not patient here, and never grant any benefit of the doubt. Instead of waiting to see, they just try to pulverize people that don't agree with them.

    Also, as you pointed out, I really found the whole thing absurd because Rank wasn't even saying the Wii was bad, he was saying the Wii was good. One poster - it might have been Dourin, but it might have been someone else - implied that Rank held different opinions than most of the posters in the thread and thus probably shouldn't post in it.

    This was especially absurd for two reasons:

    1) Rank actually DID agree with more of the people in the thread.
    2) As I said, it's not an appreciation thread where people must unanimously worship the Wii, at least in my opinion. It's a discussion thread. Civilly giving a dissenting opinion (which Rank wasn't even doing, mind you) should not only be fine, it should be supported, because there is no such thing as real discussion without an opposing viewpoint.

    Partly it all stemmed from an odd choice of words on Rankenphile's part which lead to a misunderstanding. He said his mate's dad had one for a "Beta test". The G&T dudes got incredulous because consoles historically don't give out early units to members of the public or employees for testing like games do (MMO's especially).

    Rank took their reaction to the words "betatest" as doubt in his assertion that he'd played the console and after that nobody knew what the fuck. If the Wii thread had just stepped back and said "What do you mean by betatest?" and Rank and said "Well my Dad's mate works for NOA so he got a unit pre-launch, I dunno if it was for testing purposes or whatever" it could have all been resolved. Unfortunately ANGRY FORUM MAN syndrome took over on both sides.

    I won't argue that Rank didn't return the anger hurled at him, but you must see how G&T folk quite often literally AIM to put people in a defensive position. I think Rank's attitude and response was completely justified considering how often this exact thing happens here. Frankly, I'm glad he called them out on it.

    As to him poorly wording his initial post, well - ok. But I contend that it doesn't really matter. He wasn't bragging about playing the Wii early. He was trying to say that Wii Sports was cool. Therefore, attacking him was nonsense. What is the end result of proving him wrong, anyway? Would proving him wrong prove that Wii Sports sucked, or didn't suck? I could understand if he came in and said "OMG guys I just finished Twilight Princess and boy did that game blow." Instead, he made a generic, positive comment about a game. And he got verbally gang-raped for it. It was such a stupid, pointless attack because it wouldn't have amounted to anything anyway.

    "Hey, Wii Sports is great." "Fuck you asshole, you fucking lying dicklicker, you didn't play it." That's what the conversation boiled down to. And that's trolling. There's no reason to post that way, even if they did not believe Rank one iota, unless they wanted him to respond in a negative manner back or to make him leave.

    I think only one side of this little flame-fest was in the wrong here.

    Drez on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    Drez wrote:
    "Hey, Wii Sports is great." "Fuck you asshole, you fucking lying dicklicker, you didn't play it." That's what the conversation boiled down to. And that's trolling.
    Its not trolling, its just general assholery/flaming. This is still true:
    There's no reason to post that way, even if they did not believe Rank one iota,
    but I thought I'd 2c my way in and mention that there's been a funny tendency to overuse the word troll of late, aimed at stuff that really isn't, and the inflammatory nature of the word is causing shitstorms where "hey, don't be a cock for no reason" wouldn't be as provocative. Trolling's a pretty specific process, and its not like the definition is a secret.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • bananabreadbananabread Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Drez wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    I've heard SE's side of the story, I'd like some G&T guys to give me their opinions, by PM if you want. I'm reading through the thread now.

    My G&T take: Many G&Ters was being large douches, and none of the SE++ers that posted, least of all Rankenphile, did a single wrong thing.

    People in G&T treat discussion threads like fap-happy parties. That's what an appreciation thread is, not a discussion thread. People automatically treat a dissenting opinion as a troll and it really isn't the dissenting opinion that derails these threads, it is the inability for people to accept an opinion contrary to their own.

    G&T is continuously guilty of this in many, many threads.

    Yeah the G&T guys can be pretty touchy, though I've seen people come into the Wii thread and post potentially negative things about it and walk away unscathed. I've done it myself, I started a discussion about the unlikelihood of 4 player SSB:B like a month ago.

    You just need to choose your words well and present your points in a balanced manner (i.e. show that you understand the point of view of both sides). Don't pull a Terrorbyte, basically. If you come in to the thread and say "I think the Wii will not be that great because of X" expect the guys who spend all day talking about it to say "Well that's not true because of Y".

    It's just all too often that after the hypothetical dilaogue above occurs, someone will either say "man you guys can't take any shit in here, grow up" or "man stop trolling" when they really don't need to and then we're off down the slippery slope.

    Not that I'm defending what the dudes did to Rankenphile this morning. That was totally baseless. He didn't even say the Wii wasn't any good, just that he had played it at a mates house. Now I can see the point to the flattening of the Megathreads.

    It's extremely hard to stay on topic, civil, and non-xenophobic after 10 pages. I mean, that's a semi-arbitrary estimation on my part, but I've never seen a thoroughly-inviting thread after the 10 page mark.

    There are some exceptions. I think the Final Fantasy XII thread has pretty much stayed the course. Don't get me wrong, there are exceptions to the rule, but my point is that those are exceptions.

    I'm not sure there really is a perfect solution, personally, but it is undeniable that certain threads breed rabid fanboyism and xenophobia. I'm not saying trolls don't exist. I'm sure some people post dissenting "opinions" just to be cocks. But people are not patient here, and never grant any benefit of the doubt. Instead of waiting to see, they just try to pulverize people that don't agree with them.

    Also, as you pointed out, I really found the whole thing absurd because Rank wasn't even saying the Wii was bad, he was saying the Wii was good. One poster - it might have been Dourin, but it might have been someone else - implied that Rank held different opinions than most of the posters in the thread and thus probably shouldn't post in it.

    This was especially absurd for two reasons:

    1) Rank actually DID agree with more of the people in the thread.
    2) As I said, it's not an appreciation thread where people must unanimously worship the Wii, at least in my opinion. It's a discussion thread. Civilly giving a dissenting opinion (which Rank wasn't even doing, mind you) should not only be fine, it should be supported, because there is no such thing as real discussion without an opposing viewpoint.

    Partly it all stemmed from an odd choice of words on Rankenphile's part which lead to a misunderstanding. He said his mate's dad had one for a "Beta test". The G&T dudes got incredulous because consoles historically don't give out early units to members of the public or employees for testing like games do (MMO's especially).

    Rank took their reaction to the words "betatest" as doubt in his assertion that he'd played the console and after that nobody knew what the fuck. If the Wii thread had just stepped back and said "What do you mean by betatest?" and Rank and said "Well my Dad's mate works for NOA so he got a unit pre-launch, I dunno if it was for testing purposes or whatever" it could have all been resolved. Unfortunately ANGRY FORUM MAN syndrome took over on both sides.

    I won't argue that Rank didn't return the anger hurled at him, but you must see how G&T folk quite often literally AIM to put people in a defensive position. I think Rank's attitude and response was completely justified considering how often this exact thing happens here. Frankly, I'm glad he called them out on it.

    As to him poorly wording his initial post, well - ok. But I contend that it doesn't really matter. He wasn't bragging about playing the Wii early. He was trying to say that Wii Sports was cool. Therefore, attacking him was nonsense. What is the end result of proving him wrong, anyway? Would proving him wrong prove that Wii Sports sucked, or didn't suck? I could understand if he came in and said "OMG guys I just finished Twilight Princess and boy did that game blow." Instead, he made a generic, positive comment about a game. And he got verbally gang-raped for it. It was such a stupid, pointless attack because it wouldn't have amounted to anything anyway.

    "Hey, Wii Sports is great." "Fuck you asshole, you fucking lying dicklicker, you didn't play it." That's what the conversation boiled down to. And that's trolling. There's no reason to post that way, even if they did not believe Rank one iota, unless they wanted him to respond in a negative manner back or to make him leave.

    I think only one side of this little flame-fest was in the wrong here.

    This is kind of what I'm talking about, I'm not sure why you've taken the time to pick apart my post because there was nothing inflammatory in there. There was nothing inflammatory in Rankenphile's post, but the Wii thread still chose to pick apart his post and then the flaming started. I've no idea why this happens on forums so much. To continue the comparison, I could choose to respond to you by going "LOOK FUCK YOU MAN STOP PUTTING ME DOWN" and then we'd be in an argument (although not really cos this is the Monkey Den).

    G&T were being the sole cocks until the other guys started coming in and feeding the argument. The guys who orignally flamed Rank should have been jailed straight away, as were the guys who came in after a few pages and kept the argument going. I'm not going to go out and say "blah blah SE were trolling blah" because that's an untrue generalisation.

    The problem with internet forums is that if someone puts you down or attacks you, it's there for everyone to see forever that you got seeeerved (or in the case of the Wii thread until people spam their way through 90 pages in a weekend and the thread gets closed for a new one). The only way to "win" a forum dispute is to have the last word, which is where Angry Forum Man syndrome kicks in: you keep going until the other guy gives up or you both get banned. When you're allowed to take 10 minutes to pick apart the other guy's argument, there's no other way to "win" because given that time both parties can always find a point (no matter how stupid it is) to cling on to. It's also caused by really really lonely dudes who got confused somewhere and assume that people replying to your posts = meaningful social interaction.

    Basically, the guys who flamed Rankenphile unfairly should have been jailed for their efforts. That would have calmed things down right away but assuming it didn't the guys who came in and kept the argument alive should have also been jailed and a mod should have told everyone to stop arguing about pointless shit. Problem solved.

    That would stop any future troubles as well, but if it happened again it'd be up to the party who gets flamed to be the bigger man and ignore the idiots, because they're probably just bored and lonely and want someone to talk to about anything. Even if that anything is how big of a faggot cockmuncher the other dude is. If the flames keep up, then report them to the mods and let them sort it out.

    bananabread on
    your sig was too long <3 orik
  • OdenOden Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    internet drama :arrow:

    Oden on
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