The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
The original project was C&D'd and I took everything related to it down.
So.
I have this brand new game engine that I made from the ground up. It's similar in gameplay style with dragons, items, and a Bat. The Bat works now the way we want it to. But I cannot put it in a game like the original project.
This is fantastic and awesome. I regret that praise is the only contribution I can offer.
Thanks. As a matter of fact, any interest and suggestions that you or anyone else can make will be appreciated. As I get further and further into/along the project, I'll surely have questions of my own about how to best go about doing certain aspects, and input from anyone reading the thread is appreciated at such times. It really helped me get together some good overworld art when I took suggestions on those various areas.
It looks like the main character moves just like he did in the 2600 game. I don't know, it seems like it would be cool if it controlled more like a modern game.
It looks like the main character moves just like he did in the 2600 game. I don't know, it seems like it would be cool if it controlled more like a modern game.
That's a concept that I've been torn over since I took over this project...
Remakes face a difficult balance --- do you sacrifice "accuracy to the original" in favor of "modern convention," or do you sacrifice some modern convention for the sake of staying true to the original?
The default plan was to make everything from the movement of the character, to the dragon AI, to the magnet functionality, to how the rooms and bridge and items work, make it all as close to the original as possible, but within a game environment that looks and sounds like a 16 bit game.
So right now the Hero moves pretty much exactly how he does in the original game (except at a much higher frame rate (the youtube video doesn't do the framerate justice)). I could very easily tone his "speed" down and adjust his acceleration/decelaration and animation framerate to make him move more like you would expect from a more 'modern' game of this nature, sort of like Link in LTTP.
But would people interested in an Adventure 2600 remake want it that way?
I've contemplated providing 2 modes: a "Classic Mode" and a "Reboot Mode," wherein Classic mode functions exactly like the original, and Reboot makes everything sort of 'control' and look even more modern. But then I realized that I was getting ahead of myself, and that I should get at least the "Classic Mode" done first and once that's 100% done, then consider doing a "reboot mode."
So... I've been contemplating your suggestion, but I think it takes a second priority behind a more true-to-the-original Remake.
Hm.. I dunno. I would say.. not super hard, but not as easy as it looks. Each room is a collision mask covered over by an image. So you create the overlying image by placing tile art into place using a program called Mappy, then save the file as an image and load it onto the collision map. That's to make 1 room. To make multiple rooms connected together, you obviously have to repeat the process. I dunno. I haven't really thought about how difficult it would be beyond that. I'll have a better idea once I finish the aspects of the "engine" and start building and connecting the rooms of the overworld together.
That's pretty cool. I'm glad you picked up where I left off.
Looking at the video demo, you have to remember that the gates also close when you touch an open one with the key.
If you need a map of where all the starting places are, let me know. Level 1 and level 2 are different, and level 3 is just level 2 with everything in random locations.
So right now the Hero moves pretty much exactly how he does in the original game (except at a much higher frame rate (the youtube video doesn't do the framerate justice)). I could very easily tone his "speed" down and adjust his acceleration/decelaration and animation framerate to make him move more like you would expect from a more 'modern' game of this nature, sort of like Link in LTTP.
But would people interested in an Adventure 2600 remake want it that way?
:^: Please keep it this way. The first thing I noticed was how the movement looked identical to what I remember. It's a nice touch.
That's pretty cool. I'm glad you picked up where I left off.
Looking at the video demo, you have to remember that the gates also close when you touch an open one with the key.
..(goes to try this out in the game)...
Holy crap you're right. If you touch the key to the gate, it will both open and close. I was under the impression that it just sort of stayed open once you touched an appropriate key to it. Okay, cool, these are little nuances that I need to be aware of. I'll make it so that doors shut upon 'touching' the key as well..
If you need a map of where all the starting places are, let me know. Level 1 and level 2 are different, and level 3 is just level 2 with everything in random locations.
OK cool.. I think what I'm going to do is start putting together "Level 3" first because it has all the stuff, then once that's done, whittling it away to make Levels 2 and 1 should be easier.
But anyway, sure, post the maps of the different levels, or PM me a link, or PM me for my email if you need to attach and send them.
So right now the Hero moves pretty much exactly how he does in the original game (except at a much higher frame rate (the youtube video doesn't do the framerate justice)). I could very easily tone his "speed" down and adjust his acceleration/decelaration and animation framerate to make him move more like you would expect from a more 'modern' game of this nature, sort of like Link in LTTP.
But would people interested in an Adventure 2600 remake want it that way?
:^: Please keep it this way. The first thing I noticed was how the movement looked identical to what I remember. It's a nice touch.
Sure thing; I think it'll be easier to start out making the game as close to the original as possible for starters anyway. Once I get everything done in terms of how it was in the original, then afterwards I'll start considering how to create a "Reboot Mode" or something, perhaps.
But I think the first priority is doing a true-to-original remake. (or as true as I can achieve)
This is fantastic and awesome. I regret that praise is the only contribution I can offer.
Yeah I mean I could... um.... write music? But that's pretty much the end of all useful skills I have.
Actually I might be putting music in certain parts, maybe. I was thinking, if nothing else, at least a sort little diddy for the opening title screen, or a nice tune for an intro or ending.
I guess at the least there could be a kind of "victory music" for when you return the Chalice to the Castle.
The dragons. Do they all move at the same speed? Or does the Yellow move at one speed, the Green dragon at another speed, and the Red at another speed? Or does the Red move faster and the other two move at the same slower speed? Or is it something else?
I'm not sure but I think the Red dragon moves faster than the yellow but I'm not 100 % sure.
Its been ages since I played when I was just a kid but if I recall the 3 dragons moved at 3 separate speeds...and why do I think there was a black dragon?
Anyhow
Red is Faster than Yellow which is faster than Green...
I remeber being actually afraid of the red dragon when he would show up, they make a startiling sound when they attack....
if I recall the 3 dragons moved at 3 separate speeds...and why do I think there was a black dragon?
I'm not sure. I think the Red is faster, but I dunno if Yellow and Green are the same speed or not. I've played Level 1 of Adventure, and the Green and Yellow move at the same speed, but I dunno if that's because it's Level 1 or if it's because those two dragons both move at the same speed.
I just got the "Dragon AI" working, but just for kicks I decided to show how the Magnet works as well.
The Dragon works but he won't eat the player yet, haven't done that quite yet. And also the player can walk through the dragon which is something I'll fix shortly.
But until then, this video is kind of funny, but it shows that the Magnet and Dragon are working properly so far.
I just made that in 5 minutes as a joke. Quick and dirty. But I plan on adding real ducks, evil ducks, to the final version, as a secret mode or something.
I just made that in 5 minutes as a joke. Quick and dirty. But I plan on adding real ducks, evil ducks, to the final version, as a secret mode or something.
I'm having way too much fun with this.
Now THAT is a superb modernization of the old sprite. :^:
The room numbers are here. The format for those are below...
{
{ "NumberRoom", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_PURPLE, 0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00 }, // 00 - Number Room
{ "BelowYellowCastle", ROOMFLAG_LEFTTHINWALL, COLOR_OLIVEGREEN, 0x08,0x02,0x80,0x03 }, // 01 - Top Access
{ "BelowYellowCastle", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_LIMEGREEN, 0x11,0x03,0x83,0x01 }, // 02 - Top Access
{ "LeftOfName", ROOMFLAG_RIGHTTHINWALL, COLOR_TAN, 0x06,0x01,0x86,0x02 }, // 03 - Left of Name
{ "BlueMazeTop", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_BLUE, 0x10,0x05,0x07,0x06 }, // 04 - Top of Blue Maze
{ "BlueMaze1", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_BLUE, 0x1D,0x06,0x08,0x04 }, // 05 - Blue Maze #1
{ "BlueMazeBottom", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_BLUE, 0x07,0x04,0x03,0x05 }, // 06 - Bottom of Blue Maze
{ "BlueMazeCenter", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_BLUE, 0x04,0x08,0x06,0x08 }, // 07 - Center of Blue Maze
{ "BlueMazeEntry", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_BLUE, 0x05,0x07,0x01,0x07 }, // 08 - Blue Maze Entry
{ "MazeMiddle", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_LTGRAY, 0x0A,0x0A,0x0B,0x0A }, // 09 - Maze Middle
{ "MazeEntry", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_LTGRAY, 0x03,0x09,0x09,0x09 }, // 0A - Maze Entry
{ "MazeSide", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_LTGRAY, 0x09,0x0C,0x1C,0x0D }, // 0B - Maze Side
{ "SideCorridor", ROOMFLAG_RIGHTTHINWALL, COLOR_LTCYAN, 0x1C,0x0D,0x1D,0x0B }, // 0C - Side Corridor
{ "SideCorridor", ROOMFLAG_LEFTTHINWALL, COLOR_DKGREEN, 0x0F,0x0B,0x0E,0x0C }, // 0D - Side Corridor
{ "TopEntryRoom", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_CYAN, 0x0D,0x10,0x0F,0x10 }, // 0E - Top Entry Room
{ "White_Castle", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_WHITE, 0x0E,0x0F,0x0D,0x0F }, // 0F - White Castle
{ "Black_Castle", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_BLACK, 0x01,0x1C,0x04,0x1C }, // 10 - Black Castle
{ "Yellow_Castle", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_YELLOW, 0x06,0x03,0x02,0x01 }, // 11 - Yellow Castle
{ "NumberRoom", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_YELLOW, 0x12,0x12,0x12,0x12 }, // 12 - Yellow Castle Entry
{ "BlackMaze1", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_LTGRAY, 0x15,0x14,0x15,0x16 }, // 13 - Black Maze #1
{ "BlackMaze2", ROOMFLAG_MIRROR, COLOR_LTGRAY, 0x16,0x15,0x16,0x13 }, // 14 - Black Maze #2
{ "BlackMaze3", ROOMFLAG_MIRROR, COLOR_LTGRAY, 0x13,0x16,0x13,0x14 }, // 15 - Black Maze #3
{ "BlackMazeEntry", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_LTGRAY, 0x14,0x13,0x1B,0x15 }, // 16 - Black Maze Entry
{ "RedMaze1", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_RED, 0x19,0x18,0x19,0x18 }, // 17 - Red Maze #1
{ "RedMazeTop", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_RED, 0x1A,0x17,0x1A,0x17 }, // 18 - Top of Red Maze
{ "RedMazeBottom", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_RED, 0x17,0x1A,0x17,0x1A }, // 19 - Bottom of Red Maze
{ "WhiteCastleEntry", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_RED, 0x18,0x19,0x18,0x19 }, // 1A - White Castle Entry
{ "TwoExitRoom", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_RED, 0x89,0x89,0x89,0x89 }, // 1B - Black Castle Entry
{ "NumberRoom", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_PURPLE, 0x1D,0x07,0x8C,0x08 }, // 1C - Other Purple Room
{ "TopEntryRoom", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_RED, 0x8F,0x01,0x10,0x03 }, // 1D - Top Entry Room
{ "BelowYellowCastle", ROOMFLAG_NONE, COLOR_PURPLE, 0x06,0x01,0x06,0x03 } // 1E - Name Room
};
Here is the format for the rooms
{
const char* graphicsData; // room filename
byte flags; // room flags - see below
int color; // foreground color
int roomUp; // index of room UP
int roomRight; // index of room RIGHT
int roomDown; // index of room DOWN
int roomLeft; // index of room LEFT
}
#define ROOMFLAG_NONE 0x00
#define ROOMFLAG_MIRROR 0x01 // bit 0 - 1 if graphics are mirrored, 0 for reversed
#define ROOMFLAG_LEFTTHINWALL 0x02 // bit 1 - 1 for left thin wall
#define ROOMFLAG_RIGHTTHINWALL 0x04 // bit 2 - 1 for right thin wall
In game 3, there are upper and lower bounds of a room that an object can randomly appear in
// Room bounds data for game level 3
// Ex. the chalise can only exist in rooms 13-1A
static const int roomBoundsData [] =
{
OBJECT_CHALISE, 0x13, 0x1A,
OBJECT_REDDRAGON, 0x01, 0x1D,
OBJECT_YELLOWDRAGON, 0x01, 0x1D,
OBJECT_GREENDRAGON, 0x01, 0x1D,
OBJECT_SWORD, 0x01, 0x1D,
OBJECT_BRIDGE, 0x01, 0x1D,
OBJECT_YELLOWKEY, 0x01, 0x1D,
OBJECT_WHITEKEY, 0x01, 0x16,
OBJECT_BLACKKEY, 0x01, 0x12,
OBJECT_BAT, 0x01, 0x1D,
OBJECT_MAGNET, 0x01, 0x1D,
OBJECT_NONE, 0, 0
};
Careful, there is a bug here that allows keys to be locked inside castles....
Objects that move on their own have a priority of what they guard/steal/take.
The magnat has a priority of what it grabs first if more than one object is in the room.
The bat has a priority of what it wants to steal
The dragons have a priority of what it wants to "guard" or be near to.
The dragons run away from the sword on easy difficulty, and ignore it on hard.
Green and Yellow dragon have speed of 2, Red has speed of 3.
From what I gather, When the dragons and the bat are "seeking" they go in a direction until
they wind up in a room that has an object. If there are two objects it heads to the higher priority one.
If the object is not in the list it will ignore it and continue in the direction it was going in. They have no
idea what objects are outside the room, and only know then they enter one.
The bat has a "boredom timer" that goes down from 255 when it has something. When it drops to 0 it
drops whatever it has and goes into "seek" mode when it leaves the room.
Here is the priorities of the bad guys...
// Magnet Object Matrix
static const int magnetMatrix[] =
{
OBJECT_YELLOWKEY, // Yellow Key
OBJECT_WHITEKEY, // White Key
OBJECT_BLACKKEY, // Black Key
OBJECT_SWORD, // Sword
OBJECT_BRIDGE, // Bridge
OBJECT_CHALISE, // Challise
0x00
};
// Green Dragon's Object Matrix
static const int greenDragonMatrix[] =
{
OBJECT_SWORD, OBJECT_GREENDRAGON, // Sword, Green Dragon
OBJECT_GREENDRAGON, OBJECT_HERO, // Green Dragon, Hero
OBJECT_GREENDRAGON, OBJECT_CHALISE, // Green Dragon, Chalise
OBJECT_GREENDRAGON, OBJECT_BRIDGE, // Green Dragon, Bridge
OBJECT_GREENDRAGON, OBJECT_MAGNET, // Green Dragon, Magnet
OBJECT_GREENDRAGON, OBJECT_BLACKKEY, // Green Dragon, Black Key
0x00, 0x00
};
// Yellow Dragon's Object Matrix
static const int yellowDragonMatrix[] =
{
OBJECT_SWORD, OBJECT_YELLOWDRAGON, // Sword, Yellow Dragon
OBJECT_YELLOWKEY, OBJECT_YELLOWDRAGON, // Yellow Key, Yellow Dragon
OBJECT_YELLOWDRAGON, OBJECT_HERO, // Yellow Dragon, Hero
OBJECT_YELLOWDRAGON, OBJECT_CHALISE, // Yellow Dragon, Challise
0x00, 0x00
};
// Red Dragon's Object Matrix
static const int redDragonMatrix[] =
{
OBJECT_SWORD, OBJECT_REDDRAGON, // Sword, Red Dragon
OBJECT_REDDRAGON, OBJECT_HERO, // Red Dragon, Hero
OBJECT_REDDRAGON, OBJECT_CHALISE, // Red Dragon, Chalise
OBJECT_REDDRAGON, OBJECT_WHITEKEY, // Red Dragon, White Key
0x00, 0x00
};
// Bat Object Matrix
static const int batMatrix [] =
{
OBJECT_CHALISE, // Chalise
OBJECT_SWORD, // Sword
OBJECT_BRIDGE, // Bridge
OBJECT_YELLOWKEY, // Yellow Key
OBJECT_WHITEKEY, // White Key
OBJECT_BLACKKEY, // Black Key
OBJECT_REDDRAGON, // Red Dragon
OBJECT_YELLOWDRAGON, // Yellow Dragon
OBJECT_GREENDRAGON, // Green Dragon
OBJECT_MAGNET, // Magnet
0x00
};
Does that mean that it only "attracts" one object at a time if there are more than 1 in a room? And when there are more than 1 in a room, it attracts the one highest on its priority, and just that one object? Rather than attracting multiple objects in the room?
Also, on Quest 1, it seems like the Green Dragon just chills out in his little red cave with the Black Key, and will stay there as long as the black key is there, and won't chase the Hero to another room. Is that because the Green Dragon has a prioirty to guard the black key?
Does that mean that it only "attracts" one object at a time if there are more than 1 in a room? And when there are more than 1 in a room, it attracts the one highest on its priority, and just that one object? Rather than attracting multiple objects in the room?
Yup, the magnet only attracts one thing at a time.
Also, on Quest 1, it seems like the Green Dragon just chills out in his little red cave with the Black Key, and will stay there as long as the black key is there, and won't chase the Hero to another room. Is that because the Green Dragon has a prioirty to guard the black key?
(wrong stuff was written here)
===EDIT===
Nope this is wrong, the hero has a higher priority. He will chase the hero until the hero leaves the room. If the dragon is lured out of the room, he will then wander around. If not, he will return to the key.
===EDIT===
Here's the logic directly from the code.
Every program loop, each of the dragons are moved. Yellow/green two pixels, and red three.
The dragon has three states. 0=Moving, 1=Dead, 2=you in his tummy (Not moving), and 3=roaring.
if the dragon is state 0 (moving), and you touch the dragon, his state turns to 3 (roaring), then he jumps so you are near his open mouth, and will pause for ~1 second on easy and .5 seconds on hard. If you are still touching him, the state goes to 2, you are eaten, you are moved to his tummy and the game ends.
If you have the sword and touch him, the dragon state goes to 1 (dead), the dead dragon sound is played.
----
if the dragon state=0 (moving)...
[if you have the sword, and it's on easy, chase =-1 and it flees (the movement vars are made to move away from you)]
else
[if the hero is in the room, and out of all the objects in the list, the hero is the highest priority, than chase=1 and he will move toward the hero.]
if the dragon state=0 (moving)... AND looking for an object. (meaning.. there is no hero here)
if an object is sharing the same room as the dragon. Go to the highest priority one
(chase =1 and go towards the object)
If there are no objects of interest, keep going in the same direction and move off the room into the adjacent one.
Does that make sense?
Oh BTW
MOVING THINGS CAN MOVE OFFSCREEN WHEN NOT BEING SHOWN
So the entire game is an elaborate (for the time) state machine. Object oriented design without an object oriented language. Pretty neat the degree to which it was ahead of its time.
Yup the whole thing, from the gates to the dragons. The whole game multitasked every object every cycle. Even if you were "eaten" the bat still flew around and fucked with shit offscreen, and sometimes flew past.
halkun on
0
ViscountalphaThe pen is mightier than the swordhttp://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered Userregular
Yup the whole thing, from the gates to the dragons. The whole game multitasked every object every cycle. Even if you were "eaten" the bat still flew around and fucked with shit offscreen, and sometimes flew past.
I've seen the bat grab a dragon once. It was fairly amusing.
I just played Quest 1 for a bit. Neither the Yellow Dragon nor the Green Dragon "runs" the other way when I have the sword. Although the Yellow Dragon runs the other way when I have the Yellow Key. If I have nothing, the Yellow Dragon chases me from one room to the next to the next and so on. But the Green Dragon is in a room with a Black Key. When I enter that room, with nothing, the Green Dragon chases me around the room, but as soon as I leave the room, the Green Dragon stays with the black key in the other room. If I enter the Green Dragon's room with a Sword, it's the same thing; he'll chase me around the room but won't follow me out of the room.
The Green Dragon will only follow me out of the room to subsequent rooms if I take the Black Key with me. If I leave to another room, he follows; if I drop the black key in another room, the Green Dragon stays in that room with the key and won't pursue me to another room.
So it seems like in Quest 1 the Green Dragon absolutely guards the Black Key, but neither dragon is afraid of the sword. (but the yellow dragon is afraid of the yellow key at least)
edit:
rereading the priorities and dabbling in the game a bit, I think I'm understanding how it all works.
check what difficulty you are on. (Not game type, but what state the actual physical 2600 difficultly switch is set at.) I may have the difficulty logic backwards. I don't remember if "hard" is a 1 or a 0.
check what difficulty you are on. (Not game type, but what state the actual physical 2600 difficultly switch is set at.) I may have the difficulty logic backwards. I don't remember if "hard" is a 1 or a 0.
Just got the Dragon's "eat player" code working. So that it'll properly eat the player if hes standing in the dragon's mouth too long. Also made it so that the dragon stops and roars when he touches the player. And of course I also made the dragon a tangible object, and set it up so that attacking him with the sword will kill it. The corpse is tangible too.
Now I just have to make the Yellow dragon afraid of Yellow key, which should be easy... and I guess set up its priority list.
Also.. I can't seem to figure out what's up with the original 2600. None of the dragons ever seems to flee from the Sword, regardless of the difficulty I have the system set to. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
What difficulty do I set it to? Left or right, a or b? What should the switches be properly set to? Does that matter? I can't get the dragons to fear the sword.
Man. I keep looking over the priority list that Halkun posted on the last page, but I don't see how that can be. On Level/Quest/Game 1 and on 2, I come into rooms with the sword and the dragons always chase right at me. They don't ever seem to fear the sword. I've tried left and right switches on difficulties a and b and everything. Maybe they simply flee a room where the sword resides, but if the player comes into a room while holding a sword, they'll chase the player.
I think my best course of action is to simply "Code it how I see it." If it works a certain way when I play the original, that's how I'll make it work in this one.
Should I put music for each individual area of the game? Like.. deep, slow scary music for the catacombs, spooky music for the Haunted Forest, adventurous music for the connecting overworld areas, etc.? I'm pretty sure I'd be able to do that...
My view on scoring for multimedia is that the amount, style, all that, should depend on the reason for the scoring.
With this sort of retro redesign from a 2600 game I personally would think that the scoring should be retro-ish in terms of general structure, but with the modern technological aspects, and when I think old games and music I think constant scoring.
Personally, were I to do a score for something like this I think my scoring would be retro in terms of melody and harmonic structure, but something orchestrated with modernistic electronic instruments, possibly some that are slightly below the cutting edge, giving an overall aesthetic of modern technology and aesthetics being used as a look at the past. Almost a postmodernistic pastiche of the Atari 2600. And it would also be constant.
My view on scoring for multimedia is that the amount, style, all that, should depend on the reason for the scoring.
With this sort of retro redesign from a 2600 game I personally would think that the scoring should be retro-ish in terms of general structure, but with the modern technological aspects, and when I think old games and music I think constant scoring.
Personally, were I to do a score for something like this I think my scoring would be retro in terms of melody and harmonic structure, but something orchestrated with modernistic electronic instruments, possibly some that are slightly below the cutting edge, giving an overall aesthetic of modern technology and aesthetics being used as a look at the past. Almost a postmodernistic pastiche of the Atari 2600. And it would also be constant.
I really don't know anything about music, but what you write here sounds good.
Personally, I couldn't compose a damn thing if I wanted to. But I can take music that's already made and put it into the game
Since I can't make music, that was kind of part of my initial decision not to include it, opting instead for mostly ambient audio sound effects.
Now I'm wondering if I should include both ambient sounds as well as music.
But you've made a good point about music for this game. It would probably have to actually be written/scored by someone to be a good fit for a retro remake of this nature.
Well, if you or you know anyone that'd be willing to give it a shot, I'd be happy to incorporate the music. There are only a few different areas in the game, plus intro, title, and ending music.
I'll be working on some Ligeti etudes soon, but I'll see about coming up with a few quick mock-ups, I may end up having time to throw together a few real tracks soon-ish, before all the spring semester recitals and performances need a pianist or need a new piece to play for their concert.
Posts
Thanks. As a matter of fact, any interest and suggestions that you or anyone else can make will be appreciated. As I get further and further into/along the project, I'll surely have questions of my own about how to best go about doing certain aspects, and input from anyone reading the thread is appreciated at such times. It really helped me get together some good overworld art when I took suggestions on those various areas.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
That's a concept that I've been torn over since I took over this project...
Remakes face a difficult balance --- do you sacrifice "accuracy to the original" in favor of "modern convention," or do you sacrifice some modern convention for the sake of staying true to the original?
The default plan was to make everything from the movement of the character, to the dragon AI, to the magnet functionality, to how the rooms and bridge and items work, make it all as close to the original as possible, but within a game environment that looks and sounds like a 16 bit game.
So right now the Hero moves pretty much exactly how he does in the original game (except at a much higher frame rate (the youtube video doesn't do the framerate justice)). I could very easily tone his "speed" down and adjust his acceleration/decelaration and animation framerate to make him move more like you would expect from a more 'modern' game of this nature, sort of like Link in LTTP.
But would people interested in an Adventure 2600 remake want it that way?
I've contemplated providing 2 modes: a "Classic Mode" and a "Reboot Mode," wherein Classic mode functions exactly like the original, and Reboot makes everything sort of 'control' and look even more modern. But then I realized that I was getting ahead of myself, and that I should get at least the "Classic Mode" done first and once that's 100% done, then consider doing a "reboot mode."
So... I've been contemplating your suggestion, but I think it takes a second priority behind a more true-to-the-original Remake.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire,
Hm.. I dunno. I would say.. not super hard, but not as easy as it looks. Each room is a collision mask covered over by an image. So you create the overlying image by placing tile art into place using a program called Mappy, then save the file as an image and load it onto the collision map. That's to make 1 room. To make multiple rooms connected together, you obviously have to repeat the process. I dunno. I haven't really thought about how difficult it would be beyond that. I'll have a better idea once I finish the aspects of the "engine" and start building and connecting the rooms of the overworld together.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Looking at the video demo, you have to remember that the gates also close when you touch an open one with the key.
If you need a map of where all the starting places are, let me know. Level 1 and level 2 are different, and level 3 is just level 2 with everything in random locations.
:^: Please keep it this way. The first thing I noticed was how the movement looked identical to what I remember. It's a nice touch.
3DS: 1521-4165-5907
PS3: KayleSolo
Live: Kayle Solo
WiiU: KayleSolo
Yeah I mean I could... um.... write music? But that's pretty much the end of all useful skills I have.
It's come a long way though, damn.
..(goes to try this out in the game)...
Holy crap you're right. If you touch the key to the gate, it will both open and close. I was under the impression that it just sort of stayed open once you touched an appropriate key to it. Okay, cool, these are little nuances that I need to be aware of. I'll make it so that doors shut upon 'touching' the key as well..
OK cool.. I think what I'm going to do is start putting together "Level 3" first because it has all the stuff, then once that's done, whittling it away to make Levels 2 and 1 should be easier.
But anyway, sure, post the maps of the different levels, or PM me a link, or PM me for my email if you need to attach and send them.
Sure thing; I think it'll be easier to start out making the game as close to the original as possible for starters anyway. Once I get everything done in terms of how it was in the original, then afterwards I'll start considering how to create a "Reboot Mode" or something, perhaps.
But I think the first priority is doing a true-to-original remake. (or as true as I can achieve)
Let's just call it a "middleware solution...."
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Actually I might be putting music in certain parts, maybe. I was thinking, if nothing else, at least a sort little diddy for the opening title screen, or a nice tune for an intro or ending.
I guess at the least there could be a kind of "victory music" for when you return the Chalice to the Castle.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
This is the only thing I know about the adventure game. Will you change the name to yours?
Hahah, nah, I'll probably do something ridiculous with the Easter Egg room. I haven't actually decided what, yet, though.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
The dragons. Do they all move at the same speed? Or does the Yellow move at one speed, the Green dragon at another speed, and the Red at another speed? Or does the Red move faster and the other two move at the same slower speed? Or is it something else?
I'm not sure but I think the Red dragon moves faster than the yellow but I'm not 100 % sure.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Anyhow
Red is Faster than Yellow which is faster than Green...
I remeber being actually afraid of the red dragon when he would show up, they make a startiling sound when they attack....
Yeah i was kind of a wuss
I'm not sure. I think the Red is faster, but I dunno if Yellow and Green are the same speed or not. I've played Level 1 of Adventure, and the Green and Yellow move at the same speed, but I dunno if that's because it's Level 1 or if it's because those two dragons both move at the same speed.
also I have an update for some lols:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNxOGSGmMsc
New video!
I just got the "Dragon AI" working, but just for kicks I decided to show how the Magnet works as well.
The Dragon works but he won't eat the player yet, haven't done that quite yet. And also the player can walk through the dragon which is something I'll fix shortly.
But until then, this video is kind of funny, but it shows that the Magnet and Dragon are working properly so far.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Hahah.
As a bonus, I'm going to throw in a secret mode of some kind that turns the Dragons into ducks. I just have to.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
especially you, zackschilling....
in all seriousness..
I'm having way too much fun with this.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
3DS: 1521-4165-5907
PS3: KayleSolo
Live: Kayle Solo
WiiU: KayleSolo
Now THAT is a superb modernization of the old sprite. :^:
edit: link for sound effects:
http://www.homestarrunner.com/main13.html (hover over 'email')
Here is a list of initial locations for game 1
The format is object, room, x, y, state, movement x, movement y
movement x, movement y is how many pixels to move per cycle, it can be positive or negative,
You have to translate X and Y from Atari coordinates to PC graphics coordinates.
X is calculated as (x*4)-4;
Y is calculated as 384-(y*4)+32+4
Game 2 is here....
The room numbers are here. The format for those are below...
Here is the format for the rooms
In game 3, there are upper and lower bounds of a room that an object can randomly appear in
Careful, there is a bug here that allows keys to be locked inside castles....
Objects that move on their own have a priority of what they guard/steal/take.
The magnat has a priority of what it grabs first if more than one object is in the room.
The bat has a priority of what it wants to steal
The dragons have a priority of what it wants to "guard" or be near to.
The dragons run away from the sword on easy difficulty, and ignore it on hard.
Green and Yellow dragon have speed of 2, Red has speed of 3.
From what I gather, When the dragons and the bat are "seeking" they go in a direction until
they wind up in a room that has an object. If there are two objects it heads to the higher priority one.
If the object is not in the list it will ignore it and continue in the direction it was going in. They have no
idea what objects are outside the room, and only know then they enter one.
The bat has a "boredom timer" that goes down from 255 when it has something. When it drops to 0 it
drops whatever it has and goes into "seek" mode when it leaves the room.
Here is the priorities of the bad guys...
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
The magnet has a priority list.
Does that mean that it only "attracts" one object at a time if there are more than 1 in a room? And when there are more than 1 in a room, it attracts the one highest on its priority, and just that one object? Rather than attracting multiple objects in the room?
Also, on Quest 1, it seems like the Green Dragon just chills out in his little red cave with the Black Key, and will stay there as long as the black key is there, and won't chase the Hero to another room. Is that because the Green Dragon has a prioirty to guard the black key?
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Yup, the magnet only attracts one thing at a time.
(wrong stuff was written here)
===EDIT===
Nope this is wrong, the hero has a higher priority. He will chase the hero until the hero leaves the room. If the dragon is lured out of the room, he will then wander around. If not, he will return to the key.
===EDIT===
Here's the logic directly from the code.
Every program loop, each of the dragons are moved. Yellow/green two pixels, and red three.
The dragon has three states. 0=Moving, 1=Dead, 2=you in his tummy (Not moving), and 3=roaring.
if the dragon is state 0 (moving), and you touch the dragon, his state turns to 3 (roaring), then he jumps so you are near his open mouth, and will pause for ~1 second on easy and .5 seconds on hard. If you are still touching him, the state goes to 2, you are eaten, you are moved to his tummy and the game ends.
If you have the sword and touch him, the dragon state goes to 1 (dead), the dead dragon sound is played.
----
if the dragon state=0 (moving)...
[if you have the sword, and it's on easy, chase =-1 and it flees (the movement vars are made to move away from you)]
else
[if the hero is in the room, and out of all the objects in the list, the hero is the highest priority, than chase=1 and he will move toward the hero.]
if the dragon state=0 (moving)... AND looking for an object. (meaning.. there is no hero here)
if an object is sharing the same room as the dragon. Go to the highest priority one
(chase =1 and go towards the object)
If there are no objects of interest, keep going in the same direction and move off the room into the adjacent one.
Does that make sense?
Oh BTW
MOVING THINGS CAN MOVE OFFSCREEN WHEN NOT BEING SHOWN
I've seen the bat grab a dragon once. It was fairly amusing.
I just played Quest 1 for a bit. Neither the Yellow Dragon nor the Green Dragon "runs" the other way when I have the sword. Although the Yellow Dragon runs the other way when I have the Yellow Key. If I have nothing, the Yellow Dragon chases me from one room to the next to the next and so on. But the Green Dragon is in a room with a Black Key. When I enter that room, with nothing, the Green Dragon chases me around the room, but as soon as I leave the room, the Green Dragon stays with the black key in the other room. If I enter the Green Dragon's room with a Sword, it's the same thing; he'll chase me around the room but won't follow me out of the room.
The Green Dragon will only follow me out of the room to subsequent rooms if I take the Black Key with me. If I leave to another room, he follows; if I drop the black key in another room, the Green Dragon stays in that room with the key and won't pursue me to another room.
So it seems like in Quest 1 the Green Dragon absolutely guards the Black Key, but neither dragon is afraid of the sword. (but the yellow dragon is afraid of the yellow key at least)
edit:
rereading the priorities and dabbling in the game a bit, I think I'm understanding how it all works.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Oh, huh, okay, I'll have to double check on that.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Now I just have to make the Yellow dragon afraid of Yellow key, which should be easy... and I guess set up its priority list.
Also.. I can't seem to figure out what's up with the original 2600. None of the dragons ever seems to flee from the Sword, regardless of the difficulty I have the system set to. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
What difficulty do I set it to? Left or right, a or b? What should the switches be properly set to? Does that matter? I can't get the dragons to fear the sword.
Man. I keep looking over the priority list that Halkun posted on the last page, but I don't see how that can be. On Level/Quest/Game 1 and on 2, I come into rooms with the sword and the dragons always chase right at me. They don't ever seem to fear the sword. I've tried left and right switches on difficulties a and b and everything. Maybe they simply flee a room where the sword resides, but if the player comes into a room while holding a sword, they'll chase the player.
I think my best course of action is to simply "Code it how I see it." If it works a certain way when I play the original, that's how I'll make it work in this one.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
With this sort of retro redesign from a 2600 game I personally would think that the scoring should be retro-ish in terms of general structure, but with the modern technological aspects, and when I think old games and music I think constant scoring.
Personally, were I to do a score for something like this I think my scoring would be retro in terms of melody and harmonic structure, but something orchestrated with modernistic electronic instruments, possibly some that are slightly below the cutting edge, giving an overall aesthetic of modern technology and aesthetics being used as a look at the past. Almost a postmodernistic pastiche of the Atari 2600. And it would also be constant.
I really don't know anything about music, but what you write here sounds good.
Personally, I couldn't compose a damn thing if I wanted to. But I can take music that's already made and put it into the game
Since I can't make music, that was kind of part of my initial decision not to include it, opting instead for mostly ambient audio sound effects.
Now I'm wondering if I should include both ambient sounds as well as music.
But you've made a good point about music for this game. It would probably have to actually be written/scored by someone to be a good fit for a retro remake of this nature.
Well, if you or you know anyone that'd be willing to give it a shot, I'd be happy to incorporate the music. There are only a few different areas in the game, plus intro, title, and ending music.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games