Destructable stickies definitely affect good demomen when they keep you from stickying up a sentry at long range.
Sentry-tanking (and engineers in general) are a lot stronger now. Previously, most sentry tanks could be destroyed with Soldier by shooting the wall or floor near the engie to kill him with splash. Now that he's getting ultra-fast healing from a level 3 Dispenser, it's much more of a crapshoot. Combined with the sticky nerf (which only seems to matter when you're stickying buildings) and the insane teleporter buff, engineers are much stronger now than they were.
Incorrect.
If you are that far away from a sentry, you should be using grenades to destroy it. Easiest thing in the world to do. Three grenades. Two if anyone else on your team fires one shot at the sentry. Engies can't repair fast enough.
This really is only a nerf to bad demomen. I use grenades constantly and I didn't notice a bit of difference after playing for 2 hours tonight.
What mystical land do you come from where grenades have more range than stickies?
EDIT: Does anyone know if higher level dispensers have more HP too? It seems like after the new updates, breaking the engineer turtles really is going to be all about being able to take down the dispenser.
Seriously? Do people really not know this? Grenades are far far superior to stickies for destroying at a distance. Especially if you're out of the sentries range. Arc your shots and fire them off quickly. They'll land on the sentry such a very quick succession that the Engy has absolutely no chance of saving his sentry, even if he's whacking it constantly. I'm not sure, but I don't think there's any damage dropoff on nades is there? Just practice your aim and it'll only take a couple seconds to lineup your shots and destroy a far off sentry.
This is why I don't really understand the changes to layout in goldrush 1-2. That part of the map is perhaps the easiest location from any map to do what I'm talking about. All the normal sentry spots are far enough away from ledges/balconies/other random areas that you can take a couple seconds and easily get rid of whatever defense Red has set up. I've never had a problem destroying the defense there and capping unless I have a completely balls team. They should make some changes to the goldrush 3-3 if anything.
So engineer and spy both updated, and scout coming. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.
Now thats out, does this make my hidden base building behind enemy lines more effective? What about spying, how useful is the new cloak recharge? And how do the new engineer buildings look? And will you other Euro's play with me tonight?
Seriously? Do people really not know this? Grenades are far far superior to stickies for destroying at a distance. Especially if you're out of the sentries range. Arc your shots and fire them off quickly. They'll land on the sentry such a very quick succession that the Engy has absolutely no chance of saving his sentry, even if he's whacking it constantly. I'm not sure, but I don't think there's any damage dropoff on nades is there? Just practice your aim and it'll only take a couple seconds to lineup your shots and destroy a far off sentry.
This is why I don't really understand the changes to layout in goldrush 1-2. That part of the map is perhaps the easiest location from any map to do what I'm talking about. All the normal sentry spots are far enough away from ledges/balconies/other random areas that you can take a couple seconds and easily get rid of whatever defense Red has set up. I've never had a problem destroying the defense there and capping unless I have a completely balls team. They should make some changes to the goldrush 3-3 if anything.
That's fine and all if there's no pressure from the other team. Most of the time though, standing still for a few seconds is asking for a bullet in your head and a crocket up your ass. Plus having only a 4 grenade clip means you get only one shot to check your trajectory. Your 2nd to 4th shots have to hit. If you miss or get interrupted, then the engineer has enough time to repair and everything is for naught.
Stickies are simply a better option because you don't have to be as accurate and you can be more mobile in between shots. And they're stronger with a larger blast radius so there is more collateral.
Seriously? Do people really not know this? Grenades are far far superior to stickies for destroying at a distance. Especially if you're out of the sentries range. Arc your shots and fire them off quickly. They'll land on the sentry such a very quick succession that the Engy has absolutely no chance of saving his sentry, even if he's whacking it constantly. I'm not sure, but I don't think there's any damage dropoff on nades is there? Just practice your aim and it'll only take a couple seconds to lineup your shots and destroy a far off sentry.
This is why I don't really understand the changes to layout in goldrush 1-2. That part of the map is perhaps the easiest location from any map to do what I'm talking about. All the normal sentry spots are far enough away from ledges/balconies/other random areas that you can take a couple seconds and easily get rid of whatever defense Red has set up. I've never had a problem destroying the defense there and capping unless I have a completely balls team. They should make some changes to the goldrush 3-3 if anything.
That's fine and all if there's no pressure from the other team. Most of the time though, standing still for a few seconds is asking for a bullet in your head and a crocket up your ass. Plus having only a 4 grenade clip means you get only one shot to check your trajectory. Your 2nd to 4th shots have to hit. If you miss or get interrupted, then the engineer has enough time to repair and everything is for naught.
Stickies are simply a better option because you don't have to be as accurate and you can be more mobile in between shots. And they're stronger with a larger blast radius so there is more collateral.
this. plus if you scatter them around you can often get the engie his dispenser, the sentry and if its about the tele too. the lack of accuracy needed for stickies is the killed feature. it means you can do it with push back in an uber etc.
that said, i know an absolutely amazing demoman, who can take stuff out with nades, but he usually has a dedicated medic..
Level 3 dispensers don't carry any more metal as well, they just dispense more and regain it faster. So now you medics actually have to run in front of your uberee all the time.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited December 2008
WHAT IS GOING ON!? Is there a new update out?
If there is, how the fuck did I miss it when I've been lurking this thread like mad!?
I think this is the point. Even bad demomen (me) could still demobowl it up, just laying an infinite carpet of stickies and never taking any damage. Stickies are still useful, but really you can't just be a terrible demo and rack up at least 8 kills per life anymore.
And I wouldn't get too attached to these new buildings as they are. They said they're just testing them out widespread. I'm sure they'll be tweaked in the future. I hope they fix the spy getting screwed by overhealing. Although infinitely standing on a dispenser is awesome. I only died when Mandalore came wandering by and hit it.
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DomhnallMinty D. Vision!ScotlandRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
Oh, the engineer stuff has already been updated? I thought it was coming with the scout pack! Time to play!
(after I grind some more in Persona 3)
Domhnall on
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Thoughts on the changes:
Engineers:
I like this change a lot. Offensive engies are much more useful, and one fully upgraded teleporter can basically get your entire team to the front lines. Upgraded dispensers are also really useful, but now you need to prioritize which structure to upgrade. Makes playing engy a lot less monotonous.
Engy feels really different now... you definitely have to strategize on what to build. It takes a LONG time to build up a fully leveled base, but its also much more defendable, so it's a nice balance.
Seriously? Do people really not know this? Grenades are far far superior to stickies for destroying at a distance. Especially if you're out of the sentries range. Arc your shots and fire them off quickly. They'll land on the sentry such a very quick succession that the Engy has absolutely no chance of saving his sentry, even if he's whacking it constantly. I'm not sure, but I don't think there's any damage dropoff on nades is there? Just practice your aim and it'll only take a couple seconds to lineup your shots and destroy a far off sentry.
This is why I don't really understand the changes to layout in goldrush 1-2. That part of the map is perhaps the easiest location from any map to do what I'm talking about. All the normal sentry spots are far enough away from ledges/balconies/other random areas that you can take a couple seconds and easily get rid of whatever defense Red has set up. I've never had a problem destroying the defense there and capping unless I have a completely balls team. They should make some changes to the goldrush 3-3 if anything.
That's fine and all if there's no pressure from the other team. Most of the time though, standing still for a few seconds is asking for a bullet in your head and a crocket up your ass. Plus having only a 4 grenade clip means you get only one shot to check your trajectory. Your 2nd to 4th shots have to hit. If you miss or get interrupted, then the engineer has enough time to repair and everything is for naught.
Stickies are simply a better option because you don't have to be as accurate and you can be more mobile in between shots. And they're stronger with a larger blast radius so there is more collateral.
this. plus if you scatter them around you can often get the engie his dispenser, the sentry and if its about the tele too. the lack of accuracy needed for stickies is the killed feature. it means you can do it with push back in an uber etc.
that said, i know an absolutely amazing demoman, who can take stuff out with nades, but he usually has a dedicated medic..
It's not hard, far from it, it's goddamn simple. Stickes have the advantage in situations where:
There's more than 1 target you want to take out, you could get the Sentry and the Engineer with pipes, chances are you won't get the dispenser or the tele exit or the 3 crippled players huddled around the dispenser. 3 stickies, all gone.
You don't have the distance to safely strafe out, pop out fire sticky, back into cover, all before the sentry rotates toward you, repeat as required. This is slightly boned if there is an engineer there, but if there is, just blow them up 1 at a time, the fucker can't shoot them and repair his sentry at the same time.
Stickies do have, charged up ofc, more range than pipes, also more damage.
Getting shit round corners, you can see that sentry's barrels just poking round the corner, you jump around, you're fucked, stickies at the corner, no more sentry.
And many many more, If you're interested in more sticky situations buy my book. It's called, "You're fucking ugly" available now.
There's no damage drop off on stickies or pipes, btw.
But now, I could never be friends with someone so stupid.
Cry some more you muttering piscine beastie
This is yet another tweak to undermine the lame tactic of mining the entire map. Which, as said, won't make the slightest bit of difference to people who can actually play the class. And anyone who wants further changes is clutching at straws.
Spies can recharge their cloaking ability by picking up ammo?
WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME THIS
definitely playing this tonight
I tried to tell you but you kept inviting me to games I'm not playing.
i invited you once, when you weren't in any games, and the sole thing you said to me was 'no'. i would have appreciated it if you'd actually tried to tell me, though.
I played last night, but I did awful. What the hell happened to me? I plan on having a personal training montage on Wednesday to remedy this. If that doesn't work, then I'll have to go back to medic and start from the bottom up.
I don't even mind the spy cloaking buff, as long as they don't revert the overhealed particles showing up.
Because it also happens to show up on disguised spies. Which means if you're a BLU spy disguised as RED and a RED medic overheals you, blue particles start swirling around you.
I don't even mind the spy cloaking buff, as long as they don't revert the overhealed particles showing up.
Because it also happens to show up on disguised spies. Which means if you're a BLU spy disguised as RED and a RED medic overheals you, blue particles start swirling around you.
I hope this gets fixed.
Also, I learned that the amount of time it takes for a large ammo crate to respawn is exactly how long it takes for a full cloak to deplete. ;D
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
I think that the overheal effect is nice. It quickly reveals if you're healing a spy, because it isn't affected by disguises. For some reason it still shows if you're cloaked, which really sucks for spies.
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What mystical land do you come from where grenades have more range than stickies?
EDIT: Does anyone know if higher level dispensers have more HP too? It seems like after the new updates, breaking the engineer turtles really is going to be all about being able to take down the dispenser.
This is why I don't really understand the changes to layout in goldrush 1-2. That part of the map is perhaps the easiest location from any map to do what I'm talking about. All the normal sentry spots are far enough away from ledges/balconies/other random areas that you can take a couple seconds and easily get rid of whatever defense Red has set up. I've never had a problem destroying the defense there and capping unless I have a completely balls team. They should make some changes to the goldrush 3-3 if anything.
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
Now thats out, does this make my hidden base building behind enemy lines more effective? What about spying, how useful is the new cloak recharge? And how do the new engineer buildings look? And will you other Euro's play with me tonight?
That's fine and all if there's no pressure from the other team. Most of the time though, standing still for a few seconds is asking for a bullet in your head and a crocket up your ass. Plus having only a 4 grenade clip means you get only one shot to check your trajectory. Your 2nd to 4th shots have to hit. If you miss or get interrupted, then the engineer has enough time to repair and everything is for naught.
Stickies are simply a better option because you don't have to be as accurate and you can be more mobile in between shots. And they're stronger with a larger blast radius so there is more collateral.
this. plus if you scatter them around you can often get the engie his dispenser, the sentry and if its about the tele too. the lack of accuracy needed for stickies is the killed feature. it means you can do it with push back in an uber etc.
that said, i know an absolutely amazing demoman, who can take stuff out with nades, but he usually has a dedicated medic..
If there is, how the fuck did I miss it when I've been lurking this thread like mad!?
I think this is the point. Even bad demomen (me) could still demobowl it up, just laying an infinite carpet of stickies and never taking any damage. Stickies are still useful, but really you can't just be a terrible demo and rack up at least 8 kills per life anymore.
And I wouldn't get too attached to these new buildings as they are. They said they're just testing them out widespread. I'm sure they'll be tweaked in the future. I hope they fix the spy getting screwed by overhealing. Although infinitely standing on a dispenser is awesome. I only died when Mandalore came wandering by and hit it.
(after I grind some more in Persona 3)
Steam - Minty D. Vision!
Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
They should pipe Weird Al's The Hardware Store.
Then I'd never play anything other than Engineer and I'd never leave my dispenser.
Yup, you can be an infinite hide machine.
Engy feels really different now... you definitely have to strategize on what to build. It takes a LONG time to build up a fully leveled base, but its also much more defendable, so it's a nice balance.
Wii code: 3958 1709 0590 7018
It's not hard, far from it, it's goddamn simple. Stickes have the advantage in situations where:
There's more than 1 target you want to take out, you could get the Sentry and the Engineer with pipes, chances are you won't get the dispenser or the tele exit or the 3 crippled players huddled around the dispenser. 3 stickies, all gone.
You don't have the distance to safely strafe out, pop out fire sticky, back into cover, all before the sentry rotates toward you, repeat as required. This is slightly boned if there is an engineer there, but if there is, just blow them up 1 at a time, the fucker can't shoot them and repair his sentry at the same time.
Stickies do have, charged up ofc, more range than pipes, also more damage.
Getting shit round corners, you can see that sentry's barrels just poking round the corner, you jump around, you're fucked, stickies at the corner, no more sentry.
And many many more, If you're interested in more sticky situations buy my book. It's called, "You're fucking ugly" available now.
There's no damage drop off on stickies or pipes, btw.
Good.
There's nothing wrong with demomen you just all suck so much
C'mon Ginger let's roll we're out of here.
But now, I could never be friends with someone so stupid.
Yes let us roll.
That's fine.
Spies can recharge their cloaking ability by picking up ammo?
WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME THIS
definitely playing this tonight
I tried to tell you but you kept inviting me to games I'm not playing.
Cry some more you muttering piscine beastie
This is yet another tweak to undermine the lame tactic of mining the entire map. Which, as said, won't make the slightest bit of difference to people who can actually play the class. And anyone who wants further changes is clutching at straws.
i invited you once, when you weren't in any games, and the sole thing you said to me was 'no'. i would have appreciated it if you'd actually tried to tell me, though.
I don't even mind the spy cloaking buff, as long as they don't revert the overhealed particles showing up.
Because it also happens to show up on disguised spies. Which means if you're a BLU spy disguised as RED and a RED medic overheals you, blue particles start swirling around you.
Also, I learned that the amount of time it takes for a large ammo crate to respawn is exactly how long it takes for a full cloak to deplete. ;D
infinite hoedown
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