[WoW] Death Knights: Yes, you can has Arthas

2456779

Posts

  • DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User
    edited December 2008
    So has anyone tried out a Frost DPS specc? I've been blood since I started the character, and I'm thinking about trying somthing new once I hat 80.

    DharmaBum on
  • xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    So has anyone tried out a Frost DPS specc? I've been blood since I started the character, and I'm thinking about trying somthing new once I hat 80.

    I tried it from 72-74, it's a lot of fun because it's so crit reliant.. if you like seeing big huge numbers, frost might be for you.

    I did a little more dps than I did with blood, but the loss of all the healing talents really hurt my ability to take down elites. So I switched back since 74.

    xzzy on
  • BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User
    edited December 2008
    I don't think I can ever give up Unholy. Finishing off someone as a ghoul is just too much fun.

    BlueDestiny on
    Any sufficiently advanced friendship is indistinguishable from magic.
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I'm fairly disappointed with the frost build I switched to for levelling. The point was to be a better tank, so I got blade barrier, but that means no epidemic at lvl 72, which sucks a lot. Death Strikes are also noticeably worse,and harder to fit in as well because of the shorter disease durations.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Nerdtendo wrote: »
    Well, I got to tank Northrend's version of Ring of Blood, and the single target threat wasn't an issue at all. The one fight where the guy summoned a few baddies was easy too, I just dropped DandD where the larger group was. Our healer was a ret pally, so I had to work to keep myself alive quite a bit too, but that's very doable as a Blood DK.

    I've healed that event twice on my Ret Pally (easier the second time because I had some int pieces on me), and coincidentally the Dk that tanked our event yesterday was Blood (though for some reason I mistook him as Unholy).

    mynameisguido on
    steam_sig.png
  • AumniAumni Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    So has anyone tried out a Frost DPS specc? I've been blood since I started the character, and I'm thinking about trying somthing new once I hat 80.

    I've been Frost DPS since 55 and I like it a lot. Very bursty, but very powerful. You have to more careful with it because it's less forgiving than other specs.

    Aumni on
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/aumni/ Battlenet: Aumni#1978 GW2: Aumni.1425 PSN: Aumnius
  • AddaAdda Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    I'm fairly disappointed with the frost build I switched to for levelling. The point was to be a better tank, so I got blade barrier, but that means no epidemic at lvl 72, which sucks a lot. Death Strikes are also noticeably worse,and harder to fit in as well because of the shorter disease durations.

    I levelled as a frost tank quite enjoyably from 68 upwards.

    Adda on
    steam_sig.png
    I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Oh, it's still easy, it's just noticeably less efficient than unholy was. I'll have to run an instance to see if I think the extra focus on tanking is enough to make up for it.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • HobbesHobbes Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    shryke wrote: »
    I'm looking at switching to a more Tank focused build now that I dinged 80 and I'm gonna be running lots of instances and Heroics and what not.

    What you guys think of this?
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jbEZ0xZfgGh0bkMeoossut

    An unholy tank spec? Frost is the way to go. I can make a tank spec for you if you want.

    Hobbes on
    3DS 0817-4246-8005
  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    unholy is supposedly superior for aoe tanking

    Cilla Black on
  • HobbesHobbes Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Here's a build I made. It's a little different than the one I actually use, but I haven't leveled to 80 yet so I am still experimenting.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jbZGxetIcdohRVssp0x0h

    Frost tanking is best IMO.

    Hobbes on
    3DS 0817-4246-8005
  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    it don't matter either way to me, i just want to level my death knight so i can go into classic raid instances and rape shit when bored

    Cilla Black on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Tanks don't really dual wield. Supposedly the more avoidance you get, the better unholy does, because that extends the duration of bone shield. It's probably better for aoe tanking too, although it isn't like frost is a slouch in that area.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
  • HobbesHobbes Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Dyscord wrote: »
    Tanks don't really dual wield. Supposedly the more avoidance you get, the better unholy does, because that extends the duration of bone shield. It's probably better for aoe tanking too, although it isn't like frost is a slouch in that area.

    Death Knights do.

    Unholy seems to me more like a hunter that melees. And it looks more for a DPS then it does a tank.

    Hobbes on
    3DS 0817-4246-8005
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I was under the impression that Dual Wield tanking was pretty much ASKING to be parry-gibbed, and Unholy was the best (since you gear up with Avoidance, making Bone Armor last much longer).

    The Muffin Man on
  • GorkGork Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Frost is better at lower gear levels. Once you are geared up, Unholy does seem to be the better spec with Bone Shield.

    Neither spec dual wields.

    Gork on
  • HobbesHobbes Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I was under the impression that Dual Wield tanking was pretty much ASKING to be parry-gibbed, and Unholy was the best (since you gear up with Avoidance, making Bone Armor last much longer).

    Every frost dual wield tank I know does perfectly fine. The reason you dual wield is because it is faster.

    Hobbes on
    3DS 0817-4246-8005
  • GorkGork Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Hobbes wrote: »
    I was under the impression that Dual Wield tanking was pretty much ASKING to be parry-gibbed, and Unholy was the best (since you gear up with Avoidance, making Bone Armor last much longer).

    Every frost dual wield tank I know does perfectly fine. The reason you dual wield is because it is faster.

    The faster you swing, the more parry-hasting becomes an issue. Speeding up a mob's attacks is never a good idea.
    2h vs DW
    There are no dual-wielding specs that generate comparable threat to 2-hand tanking while retaining other essential tanking talents. There are also serious parry-hasting concerns that currently render DW tanking inferior to 2H tanking. This is subject to further study of course.

    Gork on
  • HobbesHobbes Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Gork wrote: »
    The faster you swing, the more parry-hasting becomes an issue. Speeding up a mob's attacks is never a good idea.

    I don't know... As a warrior I try to use attacks as often as I can to generate more threat and hold it. I mean, unless you find a freaking fast 2 hander, I could see the huge delay in attacks making it harder to hold threat. But, like I said, I am partially looking at this as a warrior.

    Hobbes on
    3DS 0817-4246-8005
  • ZeroCowZeroCow Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Hobbes wrote: »
    Gork wrote: »
    The faster you swing, the more parry-hasting becomes an issue. Speeding up a mob's attacks is never a good idea.

    I don't know... As a warrior I try to use attacks as often as I can to generate more threat and hold it. I mean, unless you find a freaking fast 2 hander, I could see the huge delay in attacks making it harder to hold threat. But, like I said, I am partially looking at this as a warrior.

    Are you attacking with auto attack or using your abilities? Because abilities are what are going to cause most of the threat.

    :edit: Blah, worded poorly, but basically what dyscord said. And it's not to say that you can't DW, just that it's not optimal.

    ZeroCow on
    PSN ID - Buckeye_Bert
    Magic Online - Bertro
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Dual wielding is bad because DKs generate most of their single target threat from specials, which aren't bound by the swing timer. You want a weapon with a nice big high end to maxmize obliterate, frost strike and rune strike.

    The idea is that DW is better because you can equip two tank weapons (mitigation), but I suspect any advantage you'd gain that way would be offset by parryhaste and the need to wear a ton more +hit than you would with a two hander.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Dyscord wrote: »
    Dual wielding is bad because DKs generate most of their single target threat from specials, which aren't bound by the swing timer. You want a weapon with a nice big high end to maxmize obliterate, frost strike and rune strike.

    The idea is that DW is better because you can equip two tank weapons (mitigation), but I suspect any advantage you'd gain that way would be offset by parryhaste and the need to wear a ton more +hit than you would with a two hander.

    This is one of the BIG issues.

    Hitting the Defence cap is hard enough as a DK. With DW, you've now got to ALSO hit a much higher hit cap.

    It's a pain in the ass.

    shryke on
  • Fatty McBeardoFatty McBeardo Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I'm about to hit 65, I'm specced deep in the Unholy tree. I don't do raids or PVE, I like to just quest and explore solo. The DK class has been a great experience so far. I've got my perma-ghoul and we ride around inflicting shit tons of damage on pretty much everything we encounter. I love the AOE stuff, the diseases, etc. The only thing I do not like about the class is how they fit into the game in terms of the "lore"... they don't.

    Entering Orgrimmar as just a regular old dude is dumb. This is a Death Knight of the Scourge you're talking about. Even though you're officially "accepted" into the Horde/Alliance, people shouldn't react to you like they do anyone else. Stuff wilts and dies where you've walked.

    Having the Scourge as a third playable faction would have really been preferable. I'm not a RPer, but I play my DK in a way that at least makes sense in terms of interaction. Isolated and brutal. If a cute bunny crosses my path, that bunny gets an infection.

    Also, my Ghoul says the strangest stuff, it always makes me laugh:

    "Me buy... and trade." -- First of all, what does he buy? What flavor of consumerism appeals to the risen dead? Second of all, where does he trade and who does he trade with? Do ghouls use eBay?

    "Give... or.. or take." -- The way he stumbles when saying that line always cracks me up, especially because it doesn't even make any sense.

    Also, the random names assigned to ghouls are the best. So far my favorite one is Pebblechewer.

    Anyway, I'm just grinding away in Outland until I can get a foothold in Northrend. Outland is... it really sucks. I was ready to leave about an hour after I arrived. It's too ethereal and cosmic. It's like someone mixed WoW with Dr. Strange and a bad Salvador Dali clone. Meanwhile, I took a peek at Northrend and it looks amazing. But the lowest level mob I saw was 66, and that was a nerub literally right outside the front door of Warsong Hold. If that's as low level as it gets in Northrend then I guess I need about two more levels before I can sustain myself there. I just want to get the hell out of Outland, I don't even care about seeing the rest of the zones.

    Fatty McBeardo on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Ghouls have the same responses as the Vendor Ghouls from the DK starting area and Acherus and such. It's really kinda dumb and I hope they fix it eventually.


    Also, I agree about the interactions with NPCs. I've never understood why Blizzard didn't make the game tailor NPC responses to you based on qwhat quests you've done and such. It shouldn't even be HARD to do.

    shryke on
  • Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Also, my Ghoul says the strangest stuff, it always makes me laugh:

    "Me buy... and trade." -- First of all, what does he buy? What flavor of consumerism appeals to the risen dead? Second of all, where does he trade and who does he trade with? Do ghouls use eBay?

    http://www.brains4zombies.com/

    Also, try /cower in front of your pet.

    Kevin Crist on
    acpRlGW.jpg
    Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: SkinnerSweet
  • ZerokkuZerokku Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Ive found two things that are sort of sad tonight.

    1. As an unholy dps spec DK, I tanked much better then some properly specced DK tanks Ive had in my groups. O.o

    2. Half the tank gear is better for dps then the dps gear I can find, if only cause its not loaded with haste and armor pen =P

    Zerokku on
  • SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Went to Nexus with my family tonight on my DK, had a good time, wasn't sure how my DPS was stacking up compared to my brothers Rogue since none of us run a meter. But I do know that we were doing comparable levels of threat.

    Seg on
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited December 2008
    Death Knight pugs seem to be the most retarded right now.

    It's really fun tanking when the dude is dpsing in frost presence with Death and Decay.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Death Knight pugs seem to be the most retarded right now.

    It's really fun tanking when the dude is dpsing in frost presence with Death and Decay.

    I am sorry.

    Seg on
  • frylockedfrylocked Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Gork wrote: »
    Hobbes wrote: »
    I was under the impression that Dual Wield tanking was pretty much ASKING to be parry-gibbed, and Unholy was the best (since you gear up with Avoidance, making Bone Armor last much longer).

    Every frost dual wield tank I know does perfectly fine. The reason you dual wield is because it is faster.

    The faster you swing, the more parry-hasting becomes an issue. Speeding up a mob's attacks is never a good idea.
    2h vs DW
    There are no dual-wielding specs that generate comparable threat to 2-hand tanking while retaining other essential tanking talents. There are also serious parry-hasting concerns that currently render DW tanking inferior to 2H tanking. This is subject to further study of course.

    Even while dual wielding, we get parried less then a warrior. It really is a non issue.

    frylocked on
  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    frylocked wrote: »
    Gork wrote: »
    Hobbes wrote: »
    I was under the impression that Dual Wield tanking was pretty much ASKING to be parry-gibbed, and Unholy was the best (since you gear up with Avoidance, making Bone Armor last much longer).

    Every frost dual wield tank I know does perfectly fine. The reason you dual wield is because it is faster.

    The faster you swing, the more parry-hasting becomes an issue. Speeding up a mob's attacks is never a good idea.
    2h vs DW
    There are no dual-wielding specs that generate comparable threat to 2-hand tanking while retaining other essential tanking talents. There are also serious parry-hasting concerns that currently render DW tanking inferior to 2H tanking. This is subject to further study of course.

    Even while dual wielding, we get parried less then a warrior. It really is a non issue.

    It's not about comparing to a warrior, it's why would you willingly increase enemy mob's parry haste, while lowering your own DPS and threat generation and forcing you, at the same time, to make your hit cap higher than it needs to be.

    It's not that it's physically impossible to tank anything as a dw DK, it's that there are absolutely no advantages, and several disadvantages to going that way over a 2H tank build. A dw tank willingly weakens himself in all the important tanking areas, and he doesn't even make himself look cooler in the meantime.

    Dissociater on
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    The specials hit cap is the exact same for DWing so you're not making the "hit cap higher than it needs to be" if you're DW tanking. Not that I think DW tanking is the greatest idea, just saying.

    Mgcw on
  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Mgcw wrote: »
    The specials hit cap is the exact same for DWing so you're not making the "hit cap higher than it needs to be" if you're DW tanking. Not that I think DW tanking is the greatest idea, just saying.

    That's true, really a white damage thing.

    Dissociater on
  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Mgcw wrote: »
    The specials hit cap is the exact same for DWing so you're not making the "hit cap higher than it needs to be" if you're DW tanking. Not that I think DW tanking is the greatest idea, just saying.

    That's true, really a white damage thing.

    I think that's all he was referring to anyway. 2H or 1H+shield tanking, you tend to white hit cap yourself naturally while hit capping your specials (obviously). DW tanking you'd be missing a lot more of your white attacks, and your specials wouldn't be hitting as hard anyway; thus DW tanking at this point is just a handicap.

    At least, that is my understanding.

    Seems like a design flaw to me, since there doesn't appear to be any particular reason to go DW currently except to pretend that you're a FFXI ninja.

    Grundlestiltskin on
    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
  • xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    shryke wrote: »
    Also, I agree about the interactions with NPCs. I've never understood why Blizzard didn't make the game tailor NPC responses to you based on qwhat quests you've done and such. It shouldn't even be HARD to do.

    It's not "hard", just time consuming. It means every NPC needs a set of responses that are some multiple of the number of classes in the game and the specific quests each character has done.

    It would also require the quest designer to be aware of every single NPC in the game and create a suitable response when a quest is completed.

    xzzy on
  • frylockedfrylocked Registered User
    edited December 2008
    frylocked wrote: »
    Gork wrote: »
    Hobbes wrote: »
    I was under the impression that Dual Wield tanking was pretty much ASKING to be parry-gibbed, and Unholy was the best (since you gear up with Avoidance, making Bone Armor last much longer).

    Every frost dual wield tank I know does perfectly fine. The reason you dual wield is because it is faster.

    The faster you swing, the more parry-hasting becomes an issue. Speeding up a mob's attacks is never a good idea.
    2h vs DW
    There are no dual-wielding specs that generate comparable threat to 2-hand tanking while retaining other essential tanking talents. There are also serious parry-hasting concerns that currently render DW tanking inferior to 2H tanking. This is subject to further study of course.

    Even while dual wielding, we get parried less then a warrior. It really is a non issue.

    It's not about comparing to a warrior, it's why would you willingly increase enemy mob's parry haste, while lowering your own DPS and threat generation and forcing you, at the same time, to make your hit cap higher than it needs to be.

    It's not that it's physically impossible to tank anything as a dw DK, it's that there are absolutely no advantages, and several disadvantages to going that way over a 2H tank build. A dw tank willingly weakens himself in all the important tanking areas, and he doesn't even make himself look cooler in the meantime.

    Absolutely no advantages? Last I checked, there were 1hander weapons with + defense on them. Just get to the expertise cap so you dont get parries and enough hit so your specials land, there isnt that much difference. It isnt that hard in good gear and gemming correctly.

    I tank with a 2hander, but saying absolutes like this is just dumb. Its like saying "Frost is for tanking nothing else!!!one!1".

    frylocked on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    You'd need a shitton of expertise to stop boss parries, roughly double what you need to be undodgeable, and after that point, the ilevel value of expertise plummets.

    I do think there are some advantages to dual-wielding while tanking, but they can generally be made up in better ways, or aren't really worth the effort, for what you give up.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    frylocked wrote: »
    frylocked wrote: »
    Gork wrote: »
    Hobbes wrote: »
    I was under the impression that Dual Wield tanking was pretty much ASKING to be parry-gibbed, and Unholy was the best (since you gear up with Avoidance, making Bone Armor last much longer).

    Every frost dual wield tank I know does perfectly fine. The reason you dual wield is because it is faster.

    The faster you swing, the more parry-hasting becomes an issue. Speeding up a mob's attacks is never a good idea.
    2h vs DW
    There are no dual-wielding specs that generate comparable threat to 2-hand tanking while retaining other essential tanking talents. There are also serious parry-hasting concerns that currently render DW tanking inferior to 2H tanking. This is subject to further study of course.

    Even while dual wielding, we get parried less then a warrior. It really is a non issue.

    It's not about comparing to a warrior, it's why would you willingly increase enemy mob's parry haste, while lowering your own DPS and threat generation and forcing you, at the same time, to make your hit cap higher than it needs to be.

    It's not that it's physically impossible to tank anything as a dw DK, it's that there are absolutely no advantages, and several disadvantages to going that way over a 2H tank build. A dw tank willingly weakens himself in all the important tanking areas, and he doesn't even make himself look cooler in the meantime.

    Absolutely no advantages? Last I checked, there were 1hander weapons with + defense on them. Just get to the expertise cap so you dont get parries and enough hit so your specials land, there isnt that much difference. It isnt that hard in good gear and gemming correctly.

    I tank with a 2hander, but saying absolutes like this is just dumb. Its like saying "Frost is for tanking nothing else!!!one!1".

    Terrible analogy, but you're right, there are better tanking stats on some 1h weapons. But it's nothing that, if geared correctly, you can't overcome with the rest of your gear.

    Dissociater on
  • cncaudatacncaudata Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Man, a lot of crazy talk going on.

    Unholy and Frost both make great tanks. Unholy has better AOE threat, and better mitigation once you have a level of avoidance that is really easy to get (but not necessarilly better AOE mitigation). So, yeah, unholy tanks are awesome. That said, frost has some advantages: burst AOE threat, Acclimation for gimic fights, better mitigation than unholy if bone shield is down.

    Dualy wielding is a fine idea if you think it is cool. You'll be fine. You'll also be fine doing a lot of things, but if you want to maximize your survivability and threat, you should use a 2-hander. At best, dual wielding might come out equal, if you get enough defense stats from your weapons to make up for increased parries, etc. But, you're going to do less threat, because your white hits will miss, and your strikes are based on weapon damage. Even if it did catch up, you have to spend talent points to do it, so why would you (unless you think it's cool)?

    The builds in the OP need some updates. Especially the unholy tanking build - I think the consensus is that 9/11/51 is the way to go (with lichborne and 4/5 bladed armor). You're right about desecration though, it's pretty crap.

    cncaudata on
    PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    dual.

    Grundlestiltskin on
    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
Sign In or Register to comment.