Unholy aura gives 15% movement speed to all raid members. This will significantly help with fights where movement is required, there's some math over at elitistjerks proving just how significant this can be, especially for melee DPS.
The change to it now makes the movement speed only apply to you, in addition to making your runes refresh insignificantly faster in unholy presence.
So basically it went from one of the most handy raid buffs to pursuit of justice 2.0.
I'm fairly sure that Stoneskin Gargoyle is subjected to diminishing returns, since it adds defense, not straight +%parry/defense/miss. Is there any conclusive evidence that this is not the case?
OK, here's a question that might be difficult to answer, but maybe it's worth the discussion. Backstory: my DK is halfway through level 79 right now, but I might be able to get him to 80 tonight. His guild raids Naxx on Saturdays, and they might take him along for welfare gearing (not sure if this will happen though). Of course he's just in leveling gear (quest rewards/some dungeon drops), so his gear is obviously sub-Naxx ready. He's my only character on that server, and he is pretty much broke since I devoted all his money to getting epic flight (60% flight speed makes me want to hang myself).
Now the question: Is there a certain DK spec that gets the best performance out of the worst gear? I know right now the min-maxers have found things like diseaseless blood scales really well at the high end of the gear spectrum, but has anyone figured out what has the best "baseline" damage, long before raid epics come into the picture? Obviously my fresh 80 wouldn't be pulling his weight like any of the established DPS characters, but I'd like to be able to perform as well as possible given the shitty gear situation. If one spec would have me doing, say, 1800 DPS instead of 1400 DPS with a different spec, I'd like to shoot for the former.
Kind of like how ret paladins start off surprisingly well in damage with shoddy gear but don't scale as well, is there a DK spec with perhaps similar properties (at least at the low end of the gear spectrum)?
I'm fairly sure that Stoneskin Gargoyle is subjected to diminishing returns, since it adds defense, not straight +%parry/defense/miss. Is there any conclusive evidence that this is not the case?
OK, here's a question that might be difficult to answer, but maybe it's worth the discussion. Backstory: my DK is halfway through level 79 right now, but I might be able to get him to 80 tonight. His guild raids Naxx on Saturdays, and they might take him along for welfare gearing (not sure if this will happen though). Of course he's just in leveling gear (quest rewards/some dungeon drops), so his gear is obviously sub-Naxx ready. He's my only character on that server, and he is pretty much broke since I devoted all his money to getting epic flight (60% flight speed makes me want to hang myself).
Now the question: Is there a certain DK spec that gets the best performance out of the worst gear? I know right now the min-maxers have found things like diseaseless blood scales really well at the high end of the gear spectrum, but has anyone figured out what has the best "baseline" damage, long before raid epics come into the picture? Obviously my fresh 80 wouldn't be pulling his weight like any of the established DPS characters, but I'd like to be able to perform as well as possible given the shitty gear situation. If one spec would have me doing, say, 1800 DPS instead of 1400 DPS with a different spec, I'd like to shoot for the former.
Kind of like how ret paladins start off surprisingly well in damage with shoddy gear but don't scale as well, is there a DK spec with perhaps similar properties (at least at the low end of the gear spectrum)?
2 h unholy (cookie cutter) is the most forgiving for crappy gear.
Everything I've heard is that unholy is the best "entry level" spec. Much like it's the best top end spec too, but whatever.
For frost and blood, you have to keep diseases up to do any measurable damage. They both rely a lot more on physical damage (blood the most by far), so your performance will be miserable until you get your melee stats up.
That said, blood has the best survival. Bloodworms, rune tap, and vampiric blood can go a long way to masking your shitty gear by reducing the healing you sponge. Getting glyphs and talents for death strike can help too.
Everything I've heard is that unholy is the best "entry level" spec. Much like it's the best top end spec too, but whatever.
For frost and blood, you have to keep diseases up to do any measurable damage. They both rely a lot more on physical damage (blood the most by far), so your performance will be miserable until you get your melee stats up.
That said, blood has the best survival. Bloodworms, rune tap, and vampiric blood can go a long way to masking your shitty gear by reducing the healing you sponge. Getting glyphs and talents for death strike can help too.
The best way to avoid damage on most fights as dps is 'stop being bad and GTFO out of the fire / blizzard / fissure'
2 h unholy (cookie cutter) is the most forgiving for crappy gear.
Edit: it actually scales decently as well.
Interesting. Another thing I should probably consider is overall damage meters (i.e., lots of trash to AoE) vs. bosses (i.e., single target). Is unholy the most forgiving for crappy gear because of its ridiculous AoE (so lots of meter padding over the full run)? Or does it actually outperform on single targets as well?
Another thought: if there's another unholy DK in the raid (I know there's at least one in the guild), our damage will be kind of nerfed as a result of the Ebon Plague bug, right? Would losing the third disease as unholy make either of the other specs better than unholy?
Everything I've heard is that unholy is the best "entry level" spec. Much like it's the best top end spec too, but whatever.
For frost and blood, you have to keep diseases up to do any measurable damage. They both rely a lot more on physical damage (blood the most by far), so your performance will be miserable until you get your melee stats up.
That said, blood has the best survival. Bloodworms, rune tap, and vampiric blood can go a long way to masking your shitty gear by reducing the healing you sponge. Getting glyphs and talents for death strike can help too.
The best way to avoid damage on most fights as dps is 'stop being bad and GTFO out of the fire / blizzard / fissure'
Yeah, this shouldn't be a problem for me. And if you're really desperate to heal yourself, unholy can still do pretty well with death strike. I'm also not sure that a DPS optimized blood spec can even afford to pick up rune tap and/or vampiric blood.
2 h unholy (cookie cutter) is the most forgiving for crappy gear.
Edit: it actually scales decently as well.
Interesting. Another thing I should probably consider is overall damage meters (i.e., lots of trash to AoE) vs. bosses (i.e., single target). Is unholy the most forgiving for crappy gear because of its ridiculous AoE (so lots of meter padding over the full run)? Or does it actually outperform on single targets as well?
Another thought: if there's another unholy DK in the raid (I know there's at least one in the guild), our damage will be kind of nerfed as a result of the Ebon Plague bug, right? Would losing the third disease as unholy make either of the other specs better than unholy?
It is the least dependent on crits, as you will be doing a lot of AP related stuff (death coil, diseases, pet damage). But even with its AOE abilities, it still does the best single target dps.
Consesus about the dual unholy thing is that its not a big of a deal. Most people estimate it at around a 3-4% loss in dps, but yes it is true that you both wont be doing optimal dps.
The problem with having crappy gear is that you dont have much choices. Blood is right out (imo), but you could consider going 2hand frost if you can get an epic weapon (titansteel or the one from Loken).
Maybe talk with that other DK and make him go 2H frost (way more fun then UH , for me anyways).
Nice catch. I just started playing my warlock again... and there there was a period when I was playing my shadow priest unholy priests as well. Must be the dot thing. xD
Unholy aura gives 15% movement speed to all raid members. This will significantly help with fights where movement is required, there's some math over at elitistjerks proving just how significant this can be, especially for melee DPS.
The change to it now makes the movement speed only apply to you, in addition to making your runes refresh insignificantly faster in unholy presence.
So basically it went from one of the most handy raid buffs to pursuit of justice 2.0.
Unholy aura gives 15% movement speed to all raid members. This will significantly help with fights where movement is required, there's some math over at elitistjerks proving just how significant this can be, especially for melee DPS.
The change to it now makes the movement speed only apply to you, in addition to making your runes refresh insignificantly faster in unholy presence.
So basically it went from one of the most handy raid buffs to pursuit of justice 2.0.
laaame
I don't know, I'm curious to experiment with sped up rune cycling. Yeah it sucks losing 15% speed for everyone, but it certainly makes unholy stance something to consider for personal dps.
Yeah, a blood spec would be the most interesting to experiment with a 1 second GCD and faster rune cycle, but they can't get that talent, so it kind of defeats the purpose. Or at least it would if the Sudden Doom change weren't happening. GCDs shouldn't be so frustrating for blood soon.
Thanks for the advice on a shitgear spec. I guess I'll switch to 17/0/54 after I hit 80. I assume Night of the Dead is mandatory now for making sure the ghoul doesn't die in the first 5 seconds of every fight?
I'm fairly sure that Stoneskin Gargoyle is subjected to diminishing returns, since it adds defense, not straight +%parry/defense/miss. Is there any conclusive evidence that this is not the case?
OK, here's a question that might be difficult to answer, but maybe it's worth the discussion. Backstory: my DK is halfway through level 79 right now, but I might be able to get him to 80 tonight. His guild raids Naxx on Saturdays, and they might take him along for welfare gearing (not sure if this will happen though). Of course he's just in leveling gear (quest rewards/some dungeon drops), so his gear is obviously sub-Naxx ready. He's my only character on that server, and he is pretty much broke since I devoted all his money to getting epic flight (60% flight speed makes me want to hang myself).
Now the question: Is there a certain DK spec that gets the best performance out of the worst gear? I know right now the min-maxers have found things like diseaseless blood scales really well at the high end of the gear spectrum, but has anyone figured out what has the best "baseline" damage, long before raid epics come into the picture? Obviously my fresh 80 wouldn't be pulling his weight like any of the established DPS characters, but I'd like to be able to perform as well as possible given the shitty gear situation. If one spec would have me doing, say, 1800 DPS instead of 1400 DPS with a different spec, I'd like to shoot for the former.
Kind of like how ret paladins start off surprisingly well in damage with shoddy gear but don't scale as well, is there a DK spec with perhaps similar properties (at least at the low end of the gear spectrum)?
6x IT frost specs (21/50/0 and variations) do well at the low end of gear.
Since nobody mentioned it on the last page, I'd like to point out that unholy spec is by far my favorite for leveling due to the run speed increase (pale horse). I read somewhere a long time ago that powerlevelers pretty much recommend any movement speed increase you can get.
edit: and that speed increase really helps if you need to lvl up a gathering skill.
Yeah, a blood spec would be the most interesting to experiment with a 1 second GCD and faster rune cycle, but they can't get that talent, so it kind of defeats the purpose. Or at least it would if the Sudden Doom change weren't happening. GCDs shouldn't be so frustrating for blood soon.
Thanks for the advice on a shitgear spec. I guess I'll switch to 17/0/54 after I hit 80. I assume Night of the Dead is mandatory now for making sure the ghoul doesn't die in the first 5 seconds of every fight?
Yep. Glyph for Ghoul, Scourge Strike, Icy Touch.
Make sure to skip desecration.
I'm fairly sure that Stoneskin Gargoyle is subjected to diminishing returns, since it adds defense, not straight +%parry/defense/miss. Is there any conclusive evidence that this is not the case?
OK, here's a question that might be difficult to answer, but maybe it's worth the discussion. Backstory: my DK is halfway through level 79 right now, but I might be able to get him to 80 tonight. His guild raids Naxx on Saturdays, and they might take him along for welfare gearing (not sure if this will happen though). Of course he's just in leveling gear (quest rewards/some dungeon drops), so his gear is obviously sub-Naxx ready. He's my only character on that server, and he is pretty much broke since I devoted all his money to getting epic flight (60% flight speed makes me want to hang myself).
Now the question: Is there a certain DK spec that gets the best performance out of the worst gear? I know right now the min-maxers have found things like diseaseless blood scales really well at the high end of the gear spectrum, but has anyone figured out what has the best "baseline" damage, long before raid epics come into the picture? Obviously my fresh 80 wouldn't be pulling his weight like any of the established DPS characters, but I'd like to be able to perform as well as possible given the shitty gear situation. If one spec would have me doing, say, 1800 DPS instead of 1400 DPS with a different spec, I'd like to shoot for the former.
Kind of like how ret paladins start off surprisingly well in damage with shoddy gear but don't scale as well, is there a DK spec with perhaps similar properties (at least at the low end of the gear spectrum)?
6x IT frost specs (21/50/0 and variations) do well at the low end of gear.
I'm fairly sure that Stoneskin Gargoyle is subjected to diminishing returns, since it adds defense, not straight +%parry/defense/miss. Is there any conclusive evidence that this is not the case?
OK, here's a question that might be difficult to answer, but maybe it's worth the discussion. Backstory: my DK is halfway through level 79 right now, but I might be able to get him to 80 tonight. His guild raids Naxx on Saturdays, and they might take him along for welfare gearing (not sure if this will happen though). Of course he's just in leveling gear (quest rewards/some dungeon drops), so his gear is obviously sub-Naxx ready. He's my only character on that server, and he is pretty much broke since I devoted all his money to getting epic flight (60% flight speed makes me want to hang myself).
Now the question: Is there a certain DK spec that gets the best performance out of the worst gear? I know right now the min-maxers have found things like diseaseless blood scales really well at the high end of the gear spectrum, but has anyone figured out what has the best "baseline" damage, long before raid epics come into the picture? Obviously my fresh 80 wouldn't be pulling his weight like any of the established DPS characters, but I'd like to be able to perform as well as possible given the shitty gear situation. If one spec would have me doing, say, 1800 DPS instead of 1400 DPS with a different spec, I'd like to shoot for the former.
Kind of like how ret paladins start off surprisingly well in damage with shoddy gear but don't scale as well, is there a DK spec with perhaps similar properties (at least at the low end of the gear spectrum)?
6x IT frost specs (21/50/0 and variations) do well at the low end of gear.
Wait what?
Basically setting up with blood of the north o get a lot of death runes and spam the crap out of icy touch. I actually didnt consider this, as it was really talked about when I had crappy gear... but when I think about it, I like the idea.
With sigil of the frozen conscience (from venture coins) and icy touch glyph, you have a pretty decent nuke and a ton of RP to spend on frost strike.
One thing is however, you are going to want a lot of hit, as I believe IT misses at a spell miss rate (17%), which is much higher then the 2h hit (8%). Correct me if I am wrong.
So what's the first rune cycle of the rotation then? Without being able to see the talent trees, I don't recall exactly which abilities set up us the death runes.
So what's the first rune cycle of the rotation then? Without being able to see the talent trees, I don't recall exactly which abilities set up us the death runes.
When your runes start to refresh, you will effectively have 6 frost runes for IT spam. This is because OB and HS will refresh as generic death runes with blood of the north.
Note you dont use Plague Strike. (at least I wouldnt)
I thought Blood of the North only made death runes from a couple of blood abilities, like blood strike and blood boil (or was it pestilence)? Or was that the Unholy death rune talent? Fucking internet filter.
Or wait, while ranting, I realized that blood's death rune talent works with obliterate. So basically this 21/50 spec gets both blood's and frost's death rune talents?
What is it about this spec that makes it better with crappy gear than unholy? At first I assumed it was less of a focus on melee weapon strikes (with a crappy blue weapon) than the other specs, but considering it's still using four strikes every other cycle and frost strike as a runic power dump, I don't really get it.
I assume you pick up Howling Blast for AoE on trash?
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Unholy specs really don't need the extra cooldowns though.
With the change to desecration, unholy will want to depend on getting diseases refreshed by SS, and the glyph gives a 25% chance of that happening, so more chances to SS = better rotation.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I thought Blood of the North only made death runes from a couple of blood abilities, like blood strike and blood boil (or was it pestilence)? Or was that the Unholy death rune talent? Fucking internet filter.
Or wait, while ranting, I realized that blood's death rune talent works with obliterate. So basically this 21/50 spec gets both blood's and frost's death rune talents?
What is it about this spec that makes it better with crappy gear than unholy? At first I assumed it was less of a focus on melee weapon strikes (with a crappy blue weapon) than the other specs, but considering it's still using four strikes every other cycle and frost strike as a runic power dump, I don't really get it.
I assume you pick up Howling Blast for AoE on trash?
The frost death rune talent is blood strike and pestilence.
The unholy death rune talent is blood strike and blood boil.
Blizz recently came out and said that Death Strike is now meant to overtake Oblit in the blood tree. So Blood uses Death Strike, frost uses Oblit, and unholy uses SS.
I will most likely be going blood at 3.1, myself.
Unholy would be less forgiving on gear, I am guessing, because you have 3 diseases up at all times, so you get an extra static damage boost to all of your strikes. And since it's also the tree that scales the best right now...
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Unholy specs really don't need the extra cooldowns though.
With the change to desecration, unholy will want to depend on getting diseases refreshed by SS, and the glyph gives a 25% chance of that happening, so more chances to SS = better rotation.
Er, I'm not following what you're saying. I don't think unholy specs will need to be in unholy presence for the GCD reduction(and the 10% rune refresh alone is pretty unlikely to be better than 15% damage), because they've always needed the fewest GCDs due to lots of pure SS spamming.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2009
Unholy presence also gives +15% haste, so it's not completely without merit.
The idea would be that your diseases get up faster and you end up with more strikes over the long run of the battle. I would say that 15% haste + 10% rune refresh could very easily be better than 15% increased damage.
Munkus Beaver on
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Unholy presence also gives +15% haste, so it's not completely without merit.
The idea would be that your diseases get up faster and you end up with more strikes over the long run of the battle. I would say that 15% haste + 10% rune refresh could very easily be better than 15% increased damage.
Hmm, I'd have to see some numbers on it. Unholy's got a lot invested in automatic disease damage and ghoul damage, and no matter the rune refresh rate, you can't get more than 5 SSes in a row.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2009
I don't think that the ghoul is affected by blood presence, but I could be wrong.
Munkus Beaver on
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Hmm, that Icy Touch spam spec looks fun. 6 ITs every 20 seconds means a lot of chances to proc Rime.
As for Blood using Death Strike, aren't they going to have to make it do more than 100% weapon damage in order for it to be competitive with Obliterate (which scales with diseases)? Also, since Death Strike doesn't scale with diseases, it almost seems like that change would be pushing blood back toward diseaseless play, even with the change to Heart Strike disease scaling.
What is it about this spec that makes it better with crappy gear than unholy? At first I assumed it was less of a focus on melee weapon strikes (with a crappy blue weapon) than the other specs, but considering it's still using four strikes every other cycle and frost strike as a runic power dump, I don't really get it.
I assume you pick up Howling Blast for AoE on trash?
Once I get a nicer 2h Ill switch back to reg. deep frost. Although who knows with 3.
Its easy to get Frozen Conscience, you generate rp very quickly so you can dump more Frost strikes. Its also the only spec I know of that you want to be in unholy presence.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2009
To answer a few questions, Frost and Unholy will probably both lose some Icy Touch damage when all is said and done. Not all of those changes are in yet. It's cool for Unholy to dip into Frost for some more damage, but it's degenerate (in the sense that the design collapses) for Unholy to do that just so it becomes a crazy Icy Touch spamming juggernaut.
Blood should be about Heart Strike, Death Strike and healing.
Frost should be about Obliterate, Frost Strike and some (key word) ranged Frost damage.
Unholy should be about Scourge Strike, diseases and minions.
A little crossover for hybrid builds is fine.
The changes in blood in 3.1 increase the damage of Death Strike and, in the end, I'm pretty sure it ends up being more desirable than Oblit if you grab the blood talents.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Blood glyph funtimes in 3.1: Glyph of Heart Strike (adds a snare effect to Heart Strike) + Glyph of Blood Strike (increases Blood Strike damage by 20% when used on snared targets, also works on Heart Strike).
To answer a few questions, Frost and Unholy will probably both lose some Icy Touch damage when all is said and done. Not all of those changes are in yet. It's cool for Unholy to dip into Frost for some more damage, but it's degenerate (in the sense that the design collapses) for Unholy to do that just so it becomes a crazy Icy Touch spamming juggernaut.
Blood should be about Heart Strike, Death Strike and healing.
Frost should be about Obliterate, Frost Strike and some (key word) ranged Frost damage.
Unholy should be about Scourge Strike, diseases and minions.
A little crossover for hybrid builds is fine.
The changes in blood in 3.1 increase the damage of Death Strike and, in the end, I'm pretty sure it ends up being more desirable than Oblit if you grab the blood talents.
Thats wierd because you dont dip into unholy to become a crazy Icy Touch spamming juggernaut... its blood :?:
Blood glyph funtimes in 3.1: Glyph of Heart Strike (adds a snare effect to Heart Strike) + Glyph of Blood Strike (increases Blood Strike damage by 20% when used on snared targets, also works on Heart Strike).
Blood gettin' love! Seems to me it's turning into more of a pvp survival spec than it already is.
Speaking of pvp.. is there a run speed buff out there I don't know about? I'm in unholy presence in WG, got no debuffs on me, and people are outrunning me on foot (specific classes, other death knights and warlocks). It's irritating as fuck to be chasing someone down and being all "OUT OF RANGE DUDE".
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Blood glyph funtimes in 3.1: Glyph of Heart Strike (adds a snare effect to Heart Strike) + Glyph of Blood Strike (increases Blood Strike damage by 20% when used on snared targets, also works on Heart Strike).
Blood gettin' love! Seems to me it's turning into more of a pvp survival spec than it already is.
Speaking of pvp.. is there a run speed buff out there I don't know about? I'm in unholy presence in WG, got no debuffs on me, and people are outrunning me on foot (specific classes, other death knights and warlocks). It's irritating as fuck to be chasing someone down and being all "OUT OF RANGE DUDE".
Could be that you're just lagging, atleast I can't think of any on-foot enchant faster than 15%. I mean, other than Aspect of the Cheetah/Pack, but you could daze anyone affected by it with a single IT.
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AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
Unholy specs really don't need the extra cooldowns though.
With the change to desecration, unholy will want to depend on getting diseases refreshed by SS, and the glyph gives a 25% chance of that happening, so more chances to SS = better rotation.
desecration is a terrible talent though.
it's really not even possible to get it in a pve dps spec without giving up vastly superior talents.
So, I'm thinking about respecing, but I thought it would be a good idea to show you guys before I go ahead and do it, so that I don't fuck anything up (this is for a frost tank).
I've got two points left, and put a little more into unholy that I had before, so now I have the option to go for Corpse Explosion. Is the extra AoE worth it? Or should I put the points towards something else, like Epidemic, Bladed Armor, or Annihilation?
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Unholy aura gives 15% movement speed to all raid members. This will significantly help with fights where movement is required, there's some math over at elitistjerks proving just how significant this can be, especially for melee DPS.
The change to it now makes the movement speed only apply to you, in addition to making your runes refresh insignificantly faster in unholy presence.
So basically it went from one of the most handy raid buffs to pursuit of justice 2.0.
OK, here's a question that might be difficult to answer, but maybe it's worth the discussion. Backstory: my DK is halfway through level 79 right now, but I might be able to get him to 80 tonight. His guild raids Naxx on Saturdays, and they might take him along for welfare gearing (not sure if this will happen though). Of course he's just in leveling gear (quest rewards/some dungeon drops), so his gear is obviously sub-Naxx ready. He's my only character on that server, and he is pretty much broke since I devoted all his money to getting epic flight (60% flight speed makes me want to hang myself).
Now the question: Is there a certain DK spec that gets the best performance out of the worst gear? I know right now the min-maxers have found things like diseaseless blood scales really well at the high end of the gear spectrum, but has anyone figured out what has the best "baseline" damage, long before raid epics come into the picture? Obviously my fresh 80 wouldn't be pulling his weight like any of the established DPS characters, but I'd like to be able to perform as well as possible given the shitty gear situation. If one spec would have me doing, say, 1800 DPS instead of 1400 DPS with a different spec, I'd like to shoot for the former.
Kind of like how ret paladins start off surprisingly well in damage with shoddy gear but don't scale as well, is there a DK spec with perhaps similar properties (at least at the low end of the gear spectrum)?
2 h unholy (cookie cutter) is the most forgiving for crappy gear.
Edit: it actually scales decently as well.
For frost and blood, you have to keep diseases up to do any measurable damage. They both rely a lot more on physical damage (blood the most by far), so your performance will be miserable until you get your melee stats up.
That said, blood has the best survival. Bloodworms, rune tap, and vampiric blood can go a long way to masking your shitty gear by reducing the healing you sponge. Getting glyphs and talents for death strike can help too.
The best way to avoid damage on most fights as dps is 'stop being bad and GTFO out of the fire / blizzard / fissure'
Another thought: if there's another unholy DK in the raid (I know there's at least one in the guild), our damage will be kind of nerfed as a result of the Ebon Plague bug, right? Would losing the third disease as unholy make either of the other specs better than unholy?
It is the least dependent on crits, as you will be doing a lot of AP related stuff (death coil, diseases, pet damage). But even with its AOE abilities, it still does the best single target dps.
Consesus about the dual unholy thing is that its not a big of a deal. Most people estimate it at around a 3-4% loss in dps, but yes it is true that you both wont be doing optimal dps.
The problem with having crappy gear is that you dont have much choices. Blood is right out (imo), but you could consider going 2hand frost if you can get an epic weapon (titansteel or the one from Loken).
Maybe talk with that other DK and make him go 2H frost (way more fun then UH , for me anyways).
I love Corpse Explosion. That shit does alot of damage on trash. So much fun.
Nice catch. I just started playing my warlock again... and there there was a period when I was playing my shadow priest unholy priests as well. Must be the dot thing. xD
laaame
I don't know, I'm curious to experiment with sped up rune cycling. Yeah it sucks losing 15% speed for everyone, but it certainly makes unholy stance something to consider for personal dps.
Thanks for the advice on a shitgear spec. I guess I'll switch to 17/0/54 after I hit 80. I assume Night of the Dead is mandatory now for making sure the ghoul doesn't die in the first 5 seconds of every fight?
6x IT frost specs (21/50/0 and variations) do well at the low end of gear.
edit: and that speed increase really helps if you need to lvl up a gathering skill.
Yep. Glyph for Ghoul, Scourge Strike, Icy Touch.
Make sure to skip desecration.
Basically setting up with blood of the north o get a lot of death runes and spam the crap out of icy touch. I actually didnt consider this, as it was really talked about when I had crappy gear... but when I think about it, I like the idea.
With sigil of the frozen conscience (from venture coins) and icy touch glyph, you have a pretty decent nuke and a ton of RP to spend on frost strike.
One thing is however, you are going to want a lot of hit, as I believe IT misses at a spell miss rate (17%), which is much higher then the 2h hit (8%). Correct me if I am wrong.
I believe you will be doing,
Blood tap -> Icy Touch -> Obliterate -> Obliterate -> Heart Strike -> Frost Strike
When your runes start to refresh, you will effectively have 6 frost runes for IT spam. This is because OB and HS will refresh as generic death runes with blood of the north.
Note you dont use Plague Strike. (at least I wouldnt)
Opening:
Blood tap -> Icy Touch -> Obliterate -> Obliterate -> Blood Strike -> Frost Strike
Cycle once you get going:
IT-IT-IT-IT-IT-IT
OB-OB-BS-BS
Then it sustains itself from there.
Or wait, while ranting, I realized that blood's death rune talent works with obliterate. So basically this 21/50 spec gets both blood's and frost's death rune talents?
What is it about this spec that makes it better with crappy gear than unholy? At first I assumed it was less of a focus on melee weapon strikes (with a crappy blue weapon) than the other specs, but considering it's still using four strikes every other cycle and frost strike as a runic power dump, I don't really get it.
I assume you pick up Howling Blast for AoE on trash?
With the change to desecration, unholy will want to depend on getting diseases refreshed by SS, and the glyph gives a 25% chance of that happening, so more chances to SS = better rotation.
The frost death rune talent is blood strike and pestilence.
The unholy death rune talent is blood strike and blood boil.
Blizz recently came out and said that Death Strike is now meant to overtake Oblit in the blood tree. So Blood uses Death Strike, frost uses Oblit, and unholy uses SS.
I will most likely be going blood at 3.1, myself.
Unholy would be less forgiving on gear, I am guessing, because you have 3 diseases up at all times, so you get an extra static damage boost to all of your strikes. And since it's also the tree that scales the best right now...
Er, I'm not following what you're saying. I don't think unholy specs will need to be in unholy presence for the GCD reduction(and the 10% rune refresh alone is pretty unlikely to be better than 15% damage), because they've always needed the fewest GCDs due to lots of pure SS spamming.
The idea would be that your diseases get up faster and you end up with more strikes over the long run of the battle. I would say that 15% haste + 10% rune refresh could very easily be better than 15% increased damage.
BLOODS 4 LIFE.
It makes a lot of talent choices easier now too.. I can, for example, ditch Annihilation.
Hmm, I'd have to see some numbers on it. Unholy's got a lot invested in automatic disease damage and ghoul damage, and no matter the rune refresh rate, you can't get more than 5 SSes in a row.
As for Blood using Death Strike, aren't they going to have to make it do more than 100% weapon damage in order for it to be competitive with Obliterate (which scales with diseases)? Also, since Death Strike doesn't scale with diseases, it almost seems like that change would be pushing blood back toward diseaseless play, even with the change to Heart Strike disease scaling.
Im specced for 6x IT and it does rather nicely for the gear I have. 3100 dps on patch in 10 man with:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Turalyon&n=Rime
Once I get a nicer 2h Ill switch back to reg. deep frost. Although who knows with 3.
Its easy to get Frozen Conscience, you generate rp very quickly so you can dump more Frost strikes. Its also the only spec I know of that you want to be in unholy presence.
That's what GC said. http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/15673099505-why-would-you-go-back-to-the-big-dk-crits.html
The changes in blood in 3.1 increase the damage of Death Strike and, in the end, I'm pretty sure it ends up being more desirable than Oblit if you grab the blood talents.
They need to move that farther down the tree.
Thats wierd because you dont dip into unholy to become a crazy Icy Touch spamming juggernaut... its blood :?:
Fixed that.
Blood gettin' love! Seems to me it's turning into more of a pvp survival spec than it already is.
Speaking of pvp.. is there a run speed buff out there I don't know about? I'm in unholy presence in WG, got no debuffs on me, and people are outrunning me on foot (specific classes, other death knights and warlocks). It's irritating as fuck to be chasing someone down and being all "OUT OF RANGE DUDE".
Could be that you're just lagging, atleast I can't think of any on-foot enchant faster than 15%. I mean, other than Aspect of the Cheetah/Pack, but you could daze anyone affected by it with a single IT.
desecration is a terrible talent though.
it's really not even possible to get it in a pve dps spec without giving up vastly superior talents.
This is what I have so far.
I've got two points left, and put a little more into unholy that I had before, so now I have the option to go for Corpse Explosion. Is the extra AoE worth it? Or should I put the points towards something else, like Epidemic, Bladed Armor, or Annihilation?