Obama: Not just a pretty face?

werehippy

theclam wrote:

werehippy wrote:

Thanatos wrote:

werehippy wrote:

mcc wrote:

werehippy wrote:

Obama has a lot of buzz, but do you really think he could stand up to the inevitable Kennedy comparisons? In other words, he talks a good game, but does he actually have enough gusto to run for President?

Absolutely. There is no doubt of that.

The question is, does he have any of the things besides gusto that you need to run for President?

Ok, this is definitely not relevant to this thread, but I think I need to do some background research on him and get a feel for exactly why Obama is loved so much. All I really know is that he's got a kind of wunderkin vibe going on.

Maybe in the next day or two I'll pop up a thread here or in H/A and try and find videos or text of his more important speeches and interviews.

If you listen to some of his speeches, you'll know why people like him so much.

This is what I'm hoping. I really, REALLY, want there to be some charismatic, intelligent dark horse that can come out of fucking nowhere and lead the Dems to glorious and nonretarded victory, I'm just worried that it's one of those "I want to believe" things, where the will to see something overpowers what's actually there.

I've glanced at a little of his proposed legislation and he's got some pretty damn good ideas. He's not just a charismatic speaker.

Ok, after the giddy talk of winning the House and the Senate started to wind down, the topic naturally shifted to how this is going to lead into the '08 election, and the one name that seems to come up over and over, in extremely hopeful tones is Barack Obama.

I've been somewhat out of touch with politics since the crushing clusterfuck that was Kerry '04, so all I really know about is that people who study up on him seem to love him.

So, I'm coming to the D&D political guru's with a humble request. Where exactly should I be looking if I too want to know the glory that is Obama? Basically, can anyone point me and everyone else in the direction of speeches (text or video) or proposed legislation that'll help give us a feel for who Obama is and why people seem to like him so much?

ege02

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=barack+obama&hl=en

The Connecticut speech was the one I watched. It was nice.

Hoz

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8467678942033070143&q=Obama

The Golden source.

moniker

http://obama.senate.gov/

Target Practice

Ahahahahahaa

I didn't realize you were going to use my phrase

Anyway, I think the main reason a lot of people on the left like Obama is that, well, he's pretty far to the left, and he actually seems to have some integrity.

Hoz

Target Practice wrote:

Anyway, I think the main reason a lot of people on the left like Obama is that, well, he's pretty far to the left, and he actually seems to have some integrity.

So you basically don't know anything about the man.

mcc

Okay. Look. The thing about Obama is this.

1. He gave this speech at the 2004 Democratic convention. Really, this one speech is it, though he gave some other speeches later which had the same effect. The reason these speeches are such a big deal is that he managed to convey a sense of vision, a sense of humanity, and a sense of actually having ideas and having a clear idea of how to implement them.

And this in an environment where these are exactly the things lacking from every other Democrat at that same convention.

2. He has the same "unscripted" quality as Dean, that when he opens his mouth to speak he's saying what he really thinks and feels and not just a prepackaged sound bite. Yet unlike Dean, when he opens his mouth to speak, interesting and witty things come out, not uncomfortable and embarrassing things.

3. He's not Hillary Clinton

People don't really care that much what Obama is. People just know Obama is everything that the Democrats of the last couple decades aren't

jothki

Hoz wrote:

Target Practice wrote:

Anyway, I think the main reason a lot of people on the left like Obama is that, well, he's pretty far to the left, and he actually seems to have some integrity.

So you basically don't know anything about the man.

I have a feeling that most of the people who like him don't either. I certainly know nothing about him.

Hoz

Well everything he has been saying has been about bringing America together, left and right. He's aiming for the center.

ege02

mcc wrote:

The reason these speeches are such a big deal is that he managed to convey a sense of vision, a sense of humanity, and a sense of actually having ideas and having a clear idea of how to implement them.

Sounds a lot like Kennedy.

werehippy

jothki wrote:

Hoz wrote:

Target Practice wrote:

Anyway, I think the main reason a lot of people on the left like Obama is that, well, he's pretty far to the left, and he actually seems to have some integrity.

So you basically don't know anything about the man.

I have a feeling that most of the people who like him don't either. I certainly know nothing about him.

That's exactly why I thought we could use a thread like this. Starting tomorrow, both parties are going to be gearing up for 08, and I think Obama is going to be a name we hear a lot, and one that a lot of people don't really know much about beyond the fact people seem to like him.

dlinfiniti

im just waiting for him to go bbyyaaaahhhhhhh!!!

Hoz

Him on Meet the Press, very informative:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/23/barack-obama-is-thinking-about-running-for-president/

moniker

jothki wrote:

Hoz wrote:

Target Practice wrote:

Anyway, I think the main reason a lot of people on the left like Obama is that, well, he's pretty far to the left, and he actually seems to have some integrity.

So you basically don't know anything about the man.

I have a feeling that most of the people who like him don't either. I certainly know nothing about him.

Is for campaign reform and fiscally sound spending (google government act) even if he might be willing to spend more than libs and Jeffe's might like. Environmentally pro and somewhat inventive there. His idea for bailing out the big 3 in Detroit is pretty inventive considering the options available. Not too much else that he's actively done beyond that since he's a 2 year old freshman senator in an opposition party.

mcc

Hoz wrote:

Well everything he has been saying has been about bringing America together, left and right. He's aiming for the center.

And this is really the most interesting thing about Obama, if you think about it. He's figured out how to aim at the center without aiming right.

Hoz

His new faciness comes in handy with that. They can't call him a flip-flopper because he barely has a fucking voting record.

mcc

Hoz wrote:

His new faciness comes in handy with that. They can't call him a flip-flopper because he barely has a fucking voting record.

There is a reason why every president in the last like fifty years or something is either an ex-governor or an ex-VP.

God, we're fucked.

Target Practice

Hoz wrote:

Target Practice wrote:

Anyway, I think the main reason a lot of people on the left like Obama is that, well, he's pretty far to the left, and he actually seems to have some integrity.

So you basically don't know anything about the man.

I never claimed to.

That said, he certainly seems to be a lot farther to the left than most Democrats.

Hoz

mcc wrote:

Hoz wrote:

His new faciness comes in handy with that. They can't call him a flip-flopper because he barely has a fucking voting record.

There is a reason why every president in the last like fifty years or something is either an ex-governor or an ex-VP.

God, we're fucked.

Yeah, that's why I think he's better off going for President as soon as he can. The longer he waits the more he fucks himself. And it's not like he can learn more from staying in the Senate longer. It basically breaks down to:

Yes
or
No

his entire fucking future in the Senate.

Locust76

mcc wrote:

Okay. Look. The thing about Obama is this.

1. He gave this speech at the 2004 Democratic convention. Really, this one speech is it, though he gave some other speeches later which had the same effect. The reason these speeches are such a big deal is that he managed to convey a sense of vision, a sense of humanity, and a sense of actually having ideas and having a clear idea of how to implement them.

And this in an environment where these are exactly the things lacking from every other Democrat at that same convention.

2. He has the same "unscripted" quality as Dean, that when he opens his mouth to speak he's saying what he really thinks and feels and not just a prepackaged sound bite. Yet unlike Dean, when he opens his mouth to speak, interesting and witty things come out, not uncomfortable and embarrassing things.

3. He's not Hillary Clinton

People don't really care that much what Obama is. People just know Obama is everything that the Democrats of the last couple decades aren't

4. He's not white. He won't win. The US won't vote in a non-white president at this point. Sad truth.

Thanatos

Locust76 wrote:

mcc wrote:

Okay. Look. The thing about Obama is this.

1. He gave this speech at the 2004 Democratic convention. Really, this one speech is it, though he gave some other speeches later which had the same effect. The reason these speeches are such a big deal is that he managed to convey a sense of vision, a sense of humanity, and a sense of actually having ideas and having a clear idea of how to implement them.

And this in an environment where these are exactly the things lacking from every other Democrat at that same convention.

2. He has the same "unscripted" quality as Dean, that when he opens his mouth to speak he's saying what he really thinks and feels and not just a prepackaged sound bite. Yet unlike Dean, when he opens his mouth to speak, interesting and witty things come out, not uncomfortable and embarrassing things.

3. He's not Hillary Clinton

People don't really care that much what Obama is. People just know Obama is everything that the Democrats of the last couple decades aren't

4. He's not white. He won't win. The US won't vote in a non-white president at this point. Sad truth.

I think we won't be ready until one of the major parties runs someone non-white as a presidential candidate.

If he managed to win without carrying a single southern state, all the better.

ege02

Thanatos wrote:

Locust76 wrote:

mcc wrote:

Okay. Look. The thing about Obama is this.

1. He gave this speech at the 2004 Democratic convention. Really, this one speech is it, though he gave some other speeches later which had the same effect. The reason these speeches are such a big deal is that he managed to convey a sense of vision, a sense of humanity, and a sense of actually having ideas and having a clear idea of how to implement them.

And this in an environment where these are exactly the things lacking from every other Democrat at that same convention.

2. He has the same "unscripted" quality as Dean, that when he opens his mouth to speak he's saying what he really thinks and feels and not just a prepackaged sound bite. Yet unlike Dean, when he opens his mouth to speak, interesting and witty things come out, not uncomfortable and embarrassing things.

3. He's not Hillary Clinton

People don't really care that much what Obama is. People just know Obama is everything that the Democrats of the last couple decades aren't

4. He's not white. He won't win. The US won't vote in a non-white president at this point. Sad truth.

I think we won't be ready until one of the major parties runs someone non-white as a presidential candidate.

If he managed to win without carrying a single southern state, all the better.

Seriously. It has to start somewhere. Nobody is gonna go ahead and say, "alright folks, we're ready for a black president now."

Sterica

You know what, I'm just not ready for a black president yet. If you can come back in oh...say, 2012, that would be super.

Schrodinger

Any guesses on what the ads in Tennessee against him will be like if he runs for President there?

Fucking Tennessee.

3lwap0

Schrodinger wrote:

Any guesses on what the ads in Tennessee against him will be like if he runs for President there?

Fucking Tennessee.

It's a goddamn shame what they threw at Harold Ford Jr. I can't agree with all of the man's politics, but every interview i've seen from him was outstanding. He woulda done good man.

moniker

Rorus Raz wrote:

You know what, I'm just not ready for a black president yet. If you can come back in oh...say, 2012, that would be super.

Why do you want the Republicans to win the next presidential election?

nexuscrawler

moniker wrote:

Rorus Raz wrote:

You know what, I'm just not ready for a black president yet. If you can come back in oh...say, 2012, that would be super.

Why do you want the Republicans to win the next presidential election?

Unless Hilary Clinton magicaly turned black

Target Practice

Rorus Raz wrote:

You know what, I'm just not ready for a black president yet. If you can come back in oh...say, 2012, that would be super.

I am trying and failing to find that "A Gay Republican President by 2084!" bumper sticker from the Simpsons

"We're realistic"

TankHammer

You people who think he's not going to win because he's black clearly haven't followed this guy much. The FIRST thing I heard about him was how he was almost miraculously able to gain support on southerners and country-folk, because he has a gift to sit down and relate to people on their level.

He's not African-American in the traditional sense. He isn't descended from American slaves, but from an African-born father and a White, country mother. If ANYONE can bust down the color barrier it'll be this guy. I don't think he's gotten enough experience yet, but in 2 years we'll see. I, much like a lot of people, just have an instinctual, almost intuitive good-feeling about Barrack. Something just seems right about him, his integrity and his relate-ability.

He is electable. I wish him the best.
Just not Hillary Democrats, for the love of GOD.

EmperorSeth

Yeah, I agree the "we're not ready for a black president" theory is just a self-fulfilling prophecy. I mean, people were willing to give Colin Powell the presidency if he had any interest in it over a decade ago.

Locust76

I think that at this point it would be a mistake to run Obama as the primary candidate. Of course, we won't be ready until someone tries, but people will choose a republican oil company shill over a black man in '08 and then we'd be fucked again with no hope to get out of Vietna... er... Iraq.

Being black myself, I long for the day that we see a afro-american president, but now is just not the time. Too much hangs on that delicate "Liberal/Conservative" balance to throw the election away on day 1 by nominating someone who won't win, just to make some kind of statement on the affairs of race relations in the US.

Seriously, come back in 2012, it's not a good time to be playing such political games.

werehippy

Locust76 wrote:

I think that at this point it would be a mistake to run Obama as the primary candidate. Of course, we won't be ready until someone tries, but people will choose a republican oil company shill over a black man in '08 and then we'd be fucked again with no hope to get out of Vietna... er... Iraq.

Being black myself, I long for the day that we see a afro-american president, but now is just not the time. Too much hangs on that delicate "Liberal/Conservative" balance to throw the election away on day 1 by nominating someone who won't win, just to make some kind of statement on the affairs of race relations in the US.

Seriously, come back in 2012, it's not a good time to be playing such political games.

I think he should absolutely run in the primary, just to see how he shakes out. If he gets walloped, it's not an especially huge issue, but he might well end up being a serious candidate, either as a candidate himself or on the bottom of a solid Dem ticket.

Gorak

EmperorSeth wrote:

Yeah, I agree the "we're not ready for a black president" theory is just a self-fulfilling prophecy. I mean, people were willing to give Colin Powell the presidency if he had any interest in it over a decade ago.

I think Powell would have made a far better president than Bush has.

As for Obama, electing him in '08 would result in the rest of the world issuing a collective "Huh? They did what?". A lot of anti-Americans would start to rethink their positions.

TankHammer

Gorak wrote:

EmperorSeth wrote:

Yeah, I agree the "we're not ready for a black president" theory is just a self-fulfilling prophecy. I mean, people were willing to give Colin Powell the presidency if he had any interest in it over a decade ago.

I think Powell would have made a far better president than Bush has.

As for Obama, electing him in '08 would result in the rest of the world issuing a collective "Huh? They did what?". A lot of anti-Americans would start to rethink their positions.

And nobody wants that. What would France do?

sanstodo

For those wanting to know more about him, read his 2 books. He wrote one a several years ago; it goes into his life story more than the new one. He has a conversational style that is relaxed without being jumbled and intelligent without being condescending. His new book is quite good as well. It is less about his personal life and more about his ideas. He establishes himself as a moderate with liberal leanings; his main strength is his ability to evaluate ideas objectively and find creative solutions to problems. He is the exact opposite of Bush; he is intellectually curious, cares about people from all walks of life, and tries to create consensus through understanding and discussion. Just read the books. They go quickly and are thoroughly enjoyable.

Him in person: He can be intense at times but it is always quiet intensity. There will be no Howard Dean moments (though that was blown massively out of proportion) in an Obama campaign, but I assure you that crowds will go INSANE for him. He can and will engage with people one on one. Listening is one of his strengths and his responses convey his understanding of your concerns and insights.

I know that I'm gushing a bit but the man is the real deal. He's definitely NOT just a pretty face and having met him in person a short time ago, I became convinced that he should be the next president. I think he can win. I think that in the past, he would not be a viable candidate, but things have come together in a way that SCREAMS about how important his election should be. An Obama campaign wouldn't be "I'm not Bush so vote for me!" like Kerry's campaign was. It will be about ideas, it will be about progress, and it will be about making America stronger, safer, and better.

Golem

Kantankeris wrote:

Gorak wrote:

EmperorSeth wrote:

Yeah, I agree the "we're not ready for a black president" theory is just a self-fulfilling prophecy. I mean, people were willing to give Colin Powell the presidency if he had any interest in it over a decade ago.

I think Powell would have made a far better president than Bush has.

As for Obama, electing him in '08 would result in the rest of the world issuing a collective "Huh? They did what?". A lot of anti-Americans would start to rethink their positions.

And nobody wants that. What would France do?

What is french for KKK? Racist bastards!!!

Dynagrip

Your title is misspelled.

sanstodo

Golem wrote:

What is french for KKK? Racist bastards!!!

FN (front national)

TexiKen

How can he run when he hasn't really done anything? Outside of a nice little speech in 2004 and being on Oprah, showcasing him to all her brainwashed minions, what has he done that makes me go "Gee, I want to vote for him." His record so far in legislation is generic, something that could be seen for any young senator.

Obama, as he currently stands, is nothing but a poster child that the democrats want to showcase. He's young (in political terms), black, and a good speaker. I'm sorry, I want more in a candidate besides a nice photo face.

And what will be a real shame is that anyone who opposes him running on the grounds that he has relatively small experience will be labeled racist in an attempt to quiet those who don't support him.

Give him another twelve years and actually have merits to stand on, then we'll see.

sanstodo

TexiKen wrote:

How can he run when he hasn't really done anything? Outside of a nice little speech in 2004 and being on Oprah, showcasing him to all her brainwashed minions, what has he done that makes me go "Gee, I want to vote for him." His record so far in legislation is generic, something that could be seen for any young senator.

Obama, as he currently stands, is nothing but a poster child that the democrats want to showcase. He's young (in political terms), black, and a good speaker. I'm sorry, I want more in a candidate besides a nice photo face.

And what will be a real shame is that anyone who opposes him running on the grounds that he has relatively small experience will be labeled racist in an attempt to quiet those who don't support him.

Give him another twelve years and actually have merits to stand on, then we'll see.

For a bush supporter (from what I can tell) you blatantly ignore the fact that Bush had even LESS experience when he ran for president.

ege02

TexiKen wrote:

How can he run when he hasn't really done anything? Outside of a nice little speech in 2004 and being on Oprah, showcasing him to all her brainwashed minions, what has he done that makes me go "Gee, I want to vote for him." His record so far in legislation is generic, something that could be seen for any young senator.

Obama, as he currently stands, is nothing but a poster child that the democrats want to showcase. He's young (in political terms), black, and a good speaker. I'm sorry, I want more in a candidate besides a nice photo face.

And what will be a real shame is that anyone who opposes him running on the grounds that he has relatively small experience will be labeled racist in an attempt to quiet those who don't support him.

Give him another twelve years and actually have merits to stand on, then we'll see.

You realize that his lack of experience is also an advantage, right? I mean, normally, it's nice for candidates to have experience so that you can look back and see if they are the real deal, i.e. to see if they actually hold the values they say they hold. With Obama that's not the case. I mean, the guy is the real deal.

Besides, Kennedy had 14 years of experience when he was elected. Barack will have 12 by 2008.