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Romantic Relationships: What do I do?
Sol Invictus
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Registered User regular
Where do I even begin?
To first understand where I'm coming from, I should state that I've been a lifetime subscriber to 'formulaic romance movie logic'. For context, I'll simply repeat what I stated (paraphrased) in a thread in the G&T forums that got me to thinking about this:
I drank the kool aid. But just to be clear, I don't subscribe to the Ladder Theory or AskMen.
It's simply that it never occurred to me that my 'understanding' of women was all based on movie bullshit because of how subtle it is. I can't help but equate personal experiences (where I have only one side of the story) to a movie wherein similar situations occur. After all, I don't know what's going on in a girl's mind, so I assume that, like in the movie, she's just too busy doing her own thing to notice and doesn't actually care about having love in her life or that she doesn't think I'm interested because I never actually act interested.
I go out of my way to dress up well (nice shirts, Oakleys, whatever), speak well, take up interesting hobbies (like photography, for example), read interesting books, and generally do things that would make me 'desirable', but never have I ever actually shown interest in a girl that I was interested in. If I ever did, I'm certain that I wasn't doing it correctly. I might say something dorky and straightforward like "You're pretty", to which she might accept my compliment, but that would be the end of it. I've never followed up on it, because I honestly don't know what to do or say after that.
I just assume that she's just going to fall head over heels for me or something, and if she doesn't, well, it's because I'm just not good enough, right? Yeah. I put myself down.
The movies don't tell you how to go from "You're pretty" to the girl falling in love with you. It's just a natural transition that happens due to movie logic. And who knows, maybe some girls have found themselves attracted to me in the past, but they probably assumed that I wasn't interested in them as I never followed up on it.
Agonizing is the fact that many people around me just naturally assume that I have a girlfriend. Due to not wanting to look pathetic, I just nod my head and say things to perpetuate their assumption.
The kool aid. I drank deep.
Getting down to the nitty gritty, I want a significant other to exist in my life. I want someone to protect, love and care about. I want her to love me as much as I love her, if that's not too much for one to ask for. Even now, I feel as if I'm just 'not good enough' for anyone.
I think that I'm not good enough, and I do not know how to go about asking for it.
To be even more precise, I just don't know how to form a romantic relationship with anyone. If it doesn't work like movie logic, how do I even begin a relationship? How do I know if someone's interested in me? How do I approach her without damaging our friendship, if assuming that we are friends with which to begin?
In summary, I just don't know what to do. Putting my culturally-induced shame of coming off like a 'pathetic, lonely guy' aside, I'm asking for help.
To first understand where I'm coming from, I should state that I've been a lifetime subscriber to 'formulaic romance movie logic'. For context, I'll simply repeat what I stated (paraphrased) in a thread in the G&T forums that got me to thinking about this:
Men are exposed to mixed cultural messages about attraction. One of the big ones is really exemplified by your garden variety romantic comedy, where the male lead spends the entire movie pining over the female lead, but the female lead is too busy doing her own thing to notice, until at the climax there's the 'oh shit' moment where the female lead looks at the male lead and goes, "Wow! You loved me all along! Let's get married!" Examples: every Nora Ephron movie ever (I have an especially fervent slice of hate for You've Got Mail where Tom Hanks lies to Meg Ryan, stalks her online, destroys her business and her life, and yet she falls into his arms when he comes to her house with a bouquet of flowers because he did it all for luv), Bounce (more stalker behavior; Ben Affleck lies to a grieving widow and follows her around in his car), and every John Hughes movie ever (except Pretty in Pink and only because the studio forced him to rewrite it). So some young men pay attention to these messages either directly or indirectly. They get inculcated with the belief that what young women really want is a really good friend and someday if you're just friendly enough they'll fall all over you. Then when this doesn't happen, the guy feels betrayed. And why shouldn't they? They've been lied to.
Unfortunately because most young men aren't brought up to think critically about their own culture and media, they blame their failure on the young women they've been pursuing rather than the cultural koolaid they drank. Then they log on to sites like Ladder Theory or AskMen which are populated by other similarly burned young men, and they end up forming their own sad little echo chambers of misogynism.
I drank the kool aid. But just to be clear, I don't subscribe to the Ladder Theory or AskMen.
It's simply that it never occurred to me that my 'understanding' of women was all based on movie bullshit because of how subtle it is. I can't help but equate personal experiences (where I have only one side of the story) to a movie wherein similar situations occur. After all, I don't know what's going on in a girl's mind, so I assume that, like in the movie, she's just too busy doing her own thing to notice and doesn't actually care about having love in her life or that she doesn't think I'm interested because I never actually act interested.
I go out of my way to dress up well (nice shirts, Oakleys, whatever), speak well, take up interesting hobbies (like photography, for example), read interesting books, and generally do things that would make me 'desirable', but never have I ever actually shown interest in a girl that I was interested in. If I ever did, I'm certain that I wasn't doing it correctly. I might say something dorky and straightforward like "You're pretty", to which she might accept my compliment, but that would be the end of it. I've never followed up on it, because I honestly don't know what to do or say after that.
I just assume that she's just going to fall head over heels for me or something, and if she doesn't, well, it's because I'm just not good enough, right? Yeah. I put myself down.
The movies don't tell you how to go from "You're pretty" to the girl falling in love with you. It's just a natural transition that happens due to movie logic. And who knows, maybe some girls have found themselves attracted to me in the past, but they probably assumed that I wasn't interested in them as I never followed up on it.
Agonizing is the fact that many people around me just naturally assume that I have a girlfriend. Due to not wanting to look pathetic, I just nod my head and say things to perpetuate their assumption.
The kool aid. I drank deep.
Getting down to the nitty gritty, I want a significant other to exist in my life. I want someone to protect, love and care about. I want her to love me as much as I love her, if that's not too much for one to ask for. Even now, I feel as if I'm just 'not good enough' for anyone.
I think that I'm not good enough, and I do not know how to go about asking for it.
To be even more precise, I just don't know how to form a romantic relationship with anyone. If it doesn't work like movie logic, how do I even begin a relationship? How do I know if someone's interested in me? How do I approach her without damaging our friendship, if assuming that we are friends with which to begin?
In summary, I just don't know what to do. Putting my culturally-induced shame of coming off like a 'pathetic, lonely guy' aside, I'm asking for help.
Sol Invictus on
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Second: never go looking for love; you'll almost always end up disappointed. If you're out there actively seeking and desperately wanting a relationship, you'll likely fail and fall on your face. If, however, you simply make yourself available, appear open and sociable, you'll find that your romantic options will often present themselves to you. Now, that's not to say that you can't hit up some online dating sites, set up a profile and "see what's out there". Lots of people are meeting others that way these days. But just don't go into each encounter with the mindset of "must get a partner, must be in a committed relationship", because oftentimes that can have you coming off as creepy and desperate.
Now let's fast-forward a bit, let's say you've turned your self-esteem around and placed a few profiles on dating sites and are actively dating people. How do you turn that into a relationship? Well, you don't. What happens is that over time, you'll find that the person you "click" the most with will be the person you find yourself thinking about the most and wanting to spend the most time with. Often that's all it takes; the relationship will take shape on its own. But if you aren't sure of the other person's level of affection, you simply ask them how they feel. If they're as serious about you as you are them, boom, you're golden.
But seriously, work on that self esteem first. That's a huge plus that will not only make your own personal outlook much brighter, but it will make you a much more attractive person overall, thereby increasing your chances for a relationship down the road.
You kinda have to date and see if you are compatible and blah blah blah.
The love thing will just happen, but if you can't get in a serious relationship don't expect it to just happen after you first meet someone. It seems to me like you have more trouble getting into a relationship than anything. You won't find love until you get a real relationship and to do that you kinda have to date.
You said you never know how to approach or ask, try "Wanna go get some coffee". Substitute "coffee" with what ever activity you want and that is how you start dating which can eventually segue into a real meaningful relationship. You know if someone is interested if they say "yes" to the question above. After that you continue dating and over time you either get more serious or you don't and you move on. No magic needed.
Don't beat your self up about being single, there is nothing wrong with being single and I don't see the reason to misdirect people who ask if you are seeing anyone. Sure everyone wants something meaningful in their life, but you have to be happy with your self before you can start worrying about someone else. Drop the self pity and try to understand that happiness does not require a vagina. I've been single for 2 years and love every minute of it. Sure I wouldn't mind a woman in my life but it is not the deciding factor of happiness.
My 2c
Sure getting shot down is kind of a drag, but it means nothing.
The person will more than likely be flattered even if they decline, and honestly the more you get shot down, the less it stings. Everyone gets shot down, its just part of the dating "game".
1. Confidence comes first.
2. Don't go looking for love.
You need confidence to be able to go after what you want, as apposed to just putting yourself out there and hoping somebody bites. If you go out looking for commitment from day one, you could very well wind up with someone you shouldn't be with. You want to be the guy with options, not the guy who is so desperate he marries the first girl who will go out with him.
You get confidence by meeting people, making friends, and flirting with people you don't care about. Online dating can be good for this, but there are plenty of down sides to that. Being confident means getting shot down by a girl who is not interested doesn't hurt anymore, because you are happy and proud to be who you are.
I mean, sure, signing up to play a game of D&D at your local gaming store won't put you at the top of most girls' lists, but you might just find a girl there who shares your common interests.
You seem to be placing emphasis on doing things that other people would like you to do, rather than doing things because it's what you want to do.
Fear of rejection is pretty standard. You just have to take a deep breath and try to gut through it. Even if you get rejected, I always feel better for asking then for wussing out and not asking.
As others said, work on your self esteem, do self improvement whether its exercise, learning new skills, taking up new hobbies etc. If you're happy with yourself, its more attractive.
I think you're over thinking this whole process in some ways. For one thing, there's nothing wrong with being single and you should be honest about it with your friends and acquaintances. They aren't going to think about setting you up or introducing you to their cute single friends if they think you're attached.
One last thing: We're just not a telepathic species. You can drive yourself fucking crazy trying to deduce what the person you're interested in or attracted to is thinking. Ultimately, I think this is a behaviour that people engage in because its a way of avoiding their fear of rejection. Ultimately, its self destructive behaviour. If there's someone you're interested in, you need to spend time with them to see if its mutual. To do that, you have to ask them out, which means manning up and over riding the fear.
There is always someone for everyone. Cliche but true. You just have to keep trying.
Really, it's just part and parcel to the whole "meeting people" thing. Try and put yourself in places where you'll meet like-minded people. Like football? Go to some games at your college/high school (depending on your age) or whatever. Like music/dancing? Go to a club. Love you some Jesus? There are often many social groups found through your local church.
Point is, you want to meet people with whom you have a bit of common ground. That's why you hear about lots of relationships starting in school or work, but people have a hard time finding them thereafter because you have to actively be social in order to make it happen (typically).
This.
So my advice for finding someone to love and cherish, always go slow, and always go natural (mind you playful flirting never hurts either!). You'll know in her heart when romance is about to begin and when you just made yourself another good friend.
But as Halfmex said, self esteem is key. If you can't love yourself, you can't love another. Or you'll end up being emotionally draining to another or seem desperate. Nothing is sexier then a man who can smile, hold his head up, and look you in the eye. Remember -most- women want a man, not someone looking for a mother (as in always having to be emotionally supportive).
I like video games, fantasy/SF novels and yes, I do enjoy photography. However, I don't think that I've actually found anyone into these things who wasn't either a) online, and not in 'real life', or b) actually interested in me.
If they were interested in me, I never really had the guts to ask them out.
Yeah, I'm seeing here that I'm just a terribly insecure person when it comes to forming relationships, but it's not something I know how to just get over. It's somewhat odd, because I don't really suffer from any anxiety in dealing with anything else.
To reiterate, my self-confidence only becomes impaired when it comes to relationships. It's as if I put my potential mates upon a pedestal and view them as some kind of unattainable goal, diminishing my own self-confidence in the process.
I'm feeling plenty confident in myself right now, but the feeling comes and goes like the ebb and flow of chemicals swirling around in my brains.
You've correctly pointed out that I constantly seek tacit approval from others before engaging in some activity, and yes, it's true. Is online dating kosher? I mean, what would you think of me if I decided to start hitting up some online website pursuant to my hobbies for individuals who share my interests in photography and art? Like say, DeviantArt or Flickr or something.
There has been at least one scientific study to determine why some men had more success with women, despite their relatively poor looks and low social status (poor). The conclusion was simple, these men simply asked a lot of women out on dates, most said no but enough said yes that this approach worked extremely well.
Ask girls your into out. If they say no or things just aren't looking good after the fist couple dates politely move on. There is nothing magical to it.
Don't wait for a woman to express unequivocal interest. Don't wait to ask a woman out on a date, if you're interested. And most of all, don't wait until you find someone you are all torn up about; failures with women hurt the worst when you've already got a raging river of admiration for them, and besides which, relationships are organic...the biggest mistake a lot of guys make is assuming that you have to be half in love with someone before you make a move.
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Direct to the heart of the issue. This has always been my problem, if you can call it a problem. I've only ever asked out girls whom I had already developed an active interest in, and I'd never made any moves on anyone whom I was only somewhat attracted to or mildly interested in because my mind didn't register that it would be worth the 'effort'. Ingrained movie logic. I drank that kool aid.
So I have a number of issues to deal with:
1) Self confidence
2) Cynicism / Fear of rejection
3) Putting women on a pedestal
4) Requiring an emotional anchor to a person or waiting for a 'sign' before making a move
As a caveat to this, I'd say that if you and a female friend develop a mutual attraction through your friendship, go for it. But yeah, don't look at your friends and think 'I think I should try dating her'. There's a difference between something that happens naturally and something where you're trying to force something that doesn't exist.
Go to a stripclub (if you're of age). Make sure it's one of the classy ones, not one of the trashy ones. If you're nervous about it, go with a couple of friends and get a little buzzed before hand.
Why?
Because hot women in skimpy clothing will come to you and strike up conversation. They'll be flirty. Flirt back. Yes, they want you to give them money, but it's a good way to get practice with talking and flirting with women.
1) Put yourself out there.
2) Don't take it, yourself, or the girl you're asking out too seriously.
3) Put yourself out there.
It's good that you're aware of your problems/bad habits in this area. Now start breaking them. It seems more difficult than it really will be, I promise.
Yes, waiting is the worse, it's the pits and no-good. Confidence will be built up by successfully getting back on the horse and asking out more women after being turned down. Waiting may also lead you to miss the window of opportunity with someone, or if you do connect, the timing may be off(I had this happen, if I'd not waited so long to ask this girl out, we might have gotten through a period where she didn't have much free time for me).
However I wouldn't say you're wrong to wait until you have an active interest. You don't necessarily need to just ask out any attractive girl you see, but you don't want to wait until you're sure that they like you back.
As far as expressing interest... my goal is to make fun conversation and let the eye contact, body language, voice tone, etc. do the talking. I generally don't compliment much for a while... it just seems weird. Particularly not looks. Maybe I'm a little extreme in that I don't much like getting compliments either.
Work on your self-esteem. This can take some time. Regular workouts really help, not sure what they do to the neurochemistry but it's amazing.
As for fear of rejection, I think most people get a little nervous asking, but I think pretty much every guy's been rejected many times. Experience will help you read body language, but even then you're going to be wrong sometimes. Getting rejected several times kind of gets you over it, you realize it's a not the end of the world and nobody cares. Online dating helps from what I hear, given the numbers involved you can't help but have most people turn you down. Going on a number of dates helps too, because most of them don't turn into relationships. You get into the mindset that you're not asking her to have your babies or fall for you, you're just asking whether she'd like to get together and do something fun for a couple hours.
I have a strong feeling that you're putting women on a pedestal. They're just people.
1) This one is arguably the most difficult, because it requires a mindset change on your part. This can happen via physical changes (clothing, hair style, etc) or simply by actively forcing negative thoughts from your mind when they pop up. It's a challenge at first, but soon it will become second nature. Simply put, don't allow yourself to focus on the negative.
2) This can be overcome through exposure. Most everyone has been rejected at least a handful of times, but again, don't dwell on it. Just let it wash over you - it's not something that is a personal insult to you, the other person just isn't right for you at that time, and that's okay.
3) Overcoming this will help your confidence level by leaps and bounds. I was always an introverted guy and as such I was absolutely paralyzed around women I had an interest in. I'd always look at the ground, shuffle my feet and really act like the most shy person you've ever met. Then, and I'll never forget this, one day I was slated to do a presentation in my Interpersonal Communications course in college and I looked around the room. I realized, right at that moment, that these were all just people. They had insecurities, just as I did, they had feelings and wants and needs and were subject to all the same bullshit that I was. And that was all it took for me. I got up, gave my presentation and I'd never felt more confident in my life up to that point - that tightness in my chest and those butterflies in my stomach were gone. You really just have to internalize the fact that these ladies are just people, just like your male friends. Try and put yourself in the same mindset that you're in around your male friends (while remaining respectful as the situation dictates) and you'll be fine. Joke around, make some small talk, but just be yourself as best you can and do not focus on the fact that this is "a girl". She's a person, and that's all.
4) This one you can overcome by being spontaneous. It's going to get you rejected from time to time, and again, that's okay. If you're at a Starbucks and you see a person you're really attracted to, just take a deep breath, let it out and go for it. A simple "Hi, how are you? Listen, I don't normally do this, but I was wondering if you'd like to join me for coffee or lunch sometime?" You'll find that it can be quite successful and the worst that would happen is that she'd say "no thank you" (or some derivative). And if the answer is 'no', then just say "alright, no problem, have a good day" and be on your way.
All of these things require effort, but they're also all easily overcome, so long as you put your mind to it.
I... what.
Instead of going to a strip club go somewhere where women are there, but not objectified and looking to talk to you because you might pay them.
There are literally women everywhere. Are you standing in line and there's a girl there? Talk to her. Talk about the line, what you're doing in the line, how the line sucks or whatever. It doesn't even need to be a line. Also don't talk with the expectation of something coming from it.
I know what you're trying to get at mightyspacepope, I just think it's the wrong execution...
This does indeed work. A friend of mine this semester got a girls phone number while they were in a Tim Hortons lineup (didn't know each other beforehand either). I was amazed. :P
Find yourself. Don't do things to be interesting. You will just come off as pretentious if you are always talking about sailing or photo shoots.
Stop watching romantic movies. They are made for people in relationships. Netflix every Clint Eastwood movie ever to wipe that funk from your mind.
Talk to girls as if they were people, not someone who you wish would touch your junk.
If you see a cute girl, ask her for her number. Ask her to do something fun sometime. Don't sweat it if she says no.
You will need lots of practice before you find a significant other. And then you will need lots of practice maintaining a relationship with one. This is not easy it is just that most people start practicing when they are 15.
I'm going to make an analogy here. Imagine you want a cheeseburger. You want one really bad. You want it with angus beef, cheddar cheese, lettuce, tomato, ketchup, some onions, and a pickle. Now, let's say you walk into a restaurant, sit down, and when a waitress comes by to see what you want, you don't say anything. You give her no indications that you're even hungry, let alone specifically what you want? So how the fuck do you get what you want?
How are you ever going to get your cheeseburger if you don't speak the fuck up? Kids learn this around age 7 or 8. They're really scared to ask a salesperson, or to pay for something. Eventually they figure out if they want it bad enough, they'll man up and do something about it.
You need to get these grand, romantic ideas of what love, dating, and girls are out of your head. If we need to deconstruct this so it's not as scary, dating is ordering something and seeing if you like it. Relationships are completely different from dating. A first date is like trying a new meal. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not.
You just need to use your words and start telling girls what you want. No more mind-reading. No more silly games. A date is not a lifelong bond, you're just getting to know each other to see if you can stand to be around the person for another date. "Hey, we should go out some time". Unless you have some insanely awesome waitress who just 'gets you' and brings that fantastic cheeseburger in your mind, you will never get it. She will walk off and go find a customer who can tell her what she wants. Girls are the same way. Guys who play hard to get do not get far, and girls eventually move along. Playing coy, and hoping they 'get you' is not the way to get what you want. Use your words, and start letting girls know what you're interested in.
What can I do?
That is all.
Your OP is also timely in that just today, a university in Edinburgh published a (scientifically questionable) study suggesting that romantic comedies are directly responsible for many of our misperceptions about romantic relationships--linky. The study itself is so much horseshit, but I do think there may be some accidental element of truth in here about how Rom-Coms prepetuate unreasonable expectations for real life romance.
I'm going to go ahead and say the strip club idea is, um, retarded, largely for the same reason--it's just going to build up more false expectations.
So, what are you supposed to do? Communicate. Learn the subtle art of non-verbal communication for an extra layer of depth, but even without that, simply telling someone "I like you" will work wonders. And no pussy-footing! Don't ask for a girl's phone number so maybe you two could perhaps possibly hang out sometime if she's not busy--ask for her phone number because she's interesting, you'd like to get to know her better, and you want to ask her out on a date. That's actually how I tend to phrase the question: "I think you're interesting, and I'd like to get to know you better. Can I have your phone number so I can call and ask you out on a date sometime next week?"
Which is pretty much bullshit. Romantic relationships are just a bonus to a meaningful life, not a requirement. Be happy with yourself- make your own life just for you. Don't worry about being 'compatible' or desirable. Those are empty ended traits. It doesn't matter if you can twist your mind to accept any person who wanders your way, because over time you'll naturally untwist, and then you wont find that person as desirable anymore. If you're just putting on a show to hook people in, sooner or later you'll get tired of raising that curtain and performing, and then the whole thing will turn to shit.
The thing is, we are often told that we have to bend or manipulate ourselves to be better than we are- not just in rom culture, but in mass media as a whole. We are told time and time again that there are 'tricks' or shortcuts or magic feathers that can enable us to surpass ourselves and finally get what we want.
But there are no shortcuts, there are no silver bullets, there is no DaVinci code. There is only you as you are, with all of the tools and experiences you have, doing the best with what you are given. That's all anybody has. Develop your own tools and means and experiences, become the person you want to be, not the situation.
Situations change; in fact every situation is always changing constantly. Therefor, seeking out or investing in a circumstance will always come up short. Even if you succeed, it is only there for an instant before its gone. Invest in yourself, in your body, mind and personality, and those are assets that you carry with you to any circumstance, to any situation- even as those things change around you.
Don't worry about being the 'right person' at some magical moment when you supposedly meet your fate and it smiles back at you. You, no matter what, are always going to be the right person, the only person you can be in the course of your life. Opportunities will show themselves no matter what you make of yourself, as long as you are moving forward in your life. Those relationships, those chances for growth, will take the shape of what you need, of who you are and where you are going in your life.
When a person decides to grow, they can move in any direction. The pressure they put on the world, the people and institutions they interact with to acheive thier goals, creates a sort of social slipstream effect. It's easier to move in that direction if someone is going the same way, even easier if someone has been that way before and can show you how to get there.
What happens in life, is that people who interact with others constantly, notice this effect either directly or indirectly, and begin to put in their own effort in that direction. Its a natural thing to do, maximizing ones gains for that amount of work. Over time, people come to realize that the way is easier with specific people, and that over the long run, with many of the same ideologies towards progression and long-term goals in common, its a good thing to join forces on more than just a temporary level. Communication is set up to ensure that both gains and goals remain in common, and a commited team effort begins to form.
This is the foundation for pretty much any healthy relationship, and its the reason why you don't need to worry about where you are going, so much as to make sure that you are going somewhere. No matter how you choose to grow, this slipstream effect is created, and other people will naturally be drawn into your world and center of influence. This is why growing 'for others' is a complete waste of time and effort. Put all that energy, that focus into going where you want to go, to where you need to be, and others are going to come along naturally.
This is what I meant by saying that solid romantic relationships are a bonus, a side effect effect of having a meaningful life. If you try and manufacture the effect, it's shallow, often directionless and dissipates the very second you stop pouring your effort into it. The real deal is a natural byproduct of the forward momentum one obtains through the development of themselves as a person, and is naturally sustained by that energy.
Movie and media culture, story telling, marketing, etc, all work by manipulating the perception of cause and effect. This happens so this happens etc. Thats what drives arbitrary interest forward. Its universal because these things are produced to be observed. What often lies uncaptured by this method, is the real life social synergies that are created through daily experiences and contact, a very 'un-visual' thing.
You've started to notice how 'what can be shown' falls flat in reality, because there is simply more to the experience than what can be explicity observed. And good job, because there is. So go out and live your life- you're the only one who can.
Oh, I'm comfortable with talking to women (they're people just like everyone else) but my mind reverts into Movie Logic mode the moment I think about asking them out. That's why it never gets to any stage past 'friends'.
Also, there's no strip clubs here.
I am doing what no man should rightfully do, which is give Defender credit for anything. However, in this case, he has a great attitude towards asking out women. His mindset is, you are awesome. You are an awesome dude with awesome talents and people are lucky to know you. When you are asking someone out, you are like a company offering her a job with great pay, benefits and opportunities for advancement. Now, she may not be interested in the line of work, or she may be really happy with her current job. A lot of male issues with initiating relationships probably comes out of chivalry and rom-com logic, that women are passive goddesses whom must be idolized and won over through heroic derring-do. Forget that ideology. You're giving her an awesome opportunity. She may not take that opportunity (not everyone who gets into university X ends up matriculating there, even if it's one of their top choices), but she would be smart and/or lucky to do so. You're not asking her to give you her thumbs via a hacksaw, you're asking her to start something really fun and awesome with you.
And yeah, I don't much like the idea of going to a strip club. I'm principally against the objectification of other human beings.
You know, along with Sarcastro's advice, that's a pretty damn good way to unravel the rom-com logic that's dominated my mind for years. I'll have to wrap my head around this line of thought. You know, just being myself, doing my thing, pursuing my own goals and successes and being comfortable in my own skin and maybe giving someone else the opportunity to come along for the ride and have fun while we're at it.
Thank you.
As a corollary to Sarastro's advice, once you are awesome and have really engaged yourself in some cool stuff, people (not just romantically) crawl out of the woodwork for you.
I can relate to that, though not from a 'romantic relationship' standpoint but a professional one. Engaging in various activities, such as blogging, administrating websites, posting on forums and simply enjoying Left 4 Dead with PA's Armadeadon group have allowed me to make many new friends and acquaintances throughout the years. You guys included. I mean, I got my last job, my current job as well as many freelance writing, web design and graphic design jobs because I 'put myself out there', doing what I enjoyed (e.g. playing a video game and writing about it), meeting others who shared the same interests and so forth. I'm fortunate to have made the awesome friends I've made and none of it would've been possible had I not pursued these activities.
I guess it's only a matter of time before romantic opportunities present themselves in my varied lines of interest and it'll be up to me then to seize upon those opportunities by regarding these romantic opportunities the same way I regard professional relationships (which are somethings I always seize upon without any hesitation) and like my professional relationships, not hold them up to unreasonable expectations or standards.
After all, I don't expect to become a millionaire each time I speak to the CEO of some large corporation or expect to get an exclusive sneak preview or interview each time I speak to a game developer or land myself a partnership at some major gaming blog. Some of these things just happen as the opportunities present themselves. Well, except for becoming a millionaire. That hasn't happened yet. I was close to such an opportunity, but Hellgate: London totally failed. The situation was outside my control, and I don't blame myself for it. Perhaps I should see things the same way with relationships. It's not that I'm not 'good enough' for her. It's just that it didn't work out, is all.