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I am horrible at math

Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
edited December 2008 in Help / Advice Forum
I do not get math, I am horrible at it. I am taking an intro to college math class and I am barely understanding the class. I will struggle doing practice problems every time I do them, I can do the same set on two different days I get the same questions wrong on both days even though I go over them a bunch of times. I can not remember any of these rules, they seem to all change for the slightest of reasons none of which seem to matter.

Right now I am working on equations which I thought I understood but tomorrow I will probably do the same set of problems and get 10 wrong. How can I remember all these rules and how can I remember when they do and do not apply to certain situations? It seems like there are hundreds of rules with thousands of different conditions where they can be applied and thousands more where they do no apply.

My only goal right now is to be good at math, I want to be really good at it. It is all I spend my free time doing during the week and at work when I have nothing else to do. Some days I will spend six hours out of class working on this stuff.

As an example I do not see why this does not work.

2/3a -5 = 1/3 a +5
to get rid of 2/3a I multiply by 3/2 which equals -5 = 1/2a + 5
-10 = 1/2a
-5=a

Fizban140 on
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Posts

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Is there a particular reason you want to be really good at math?

    Quid on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    It is something I have always been bad at, everyone else in my family is exceptional at it. My dad is an electrical engineer, one of my brothers is going to be a physicist and another is going to school to be some other type of engineer.

    It is just something I want to be good at and I do not see any jobs I would enjoy that do not involve at least a little math.

    Fizban140 on
  • IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    It is something I have always been bad at, everyone else in my family is exceptional at it. My dad is an electrical engineer, one of my brothers is going to be a physicist and another is going to school to be some other type of engineer.

    It is just something I want to be good at and I do not see any jobs I would enjoy that do not involve at least a little math.
    I would strongly suggest getting some assistance from a tutor, study group, or the professor if they're available.

    The idea that there are a lot of rules and they never stay the same is definitely going to be a hurdle for you. To be honest, there are only a few hard and fast rules that you need to stick by; the difficulty is all in knowing when and how to use them.

    Iroh on
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  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    It seems like there are hundreds of rules with thousands of different conditions where they can be applied and thousands more where they do no apply.

    Unless you're memorising shortcuts, the rules of mathematics tend to be pretty consistent. For the most part, pre-college mathematics only blow up when you do things like try to divide by zero, or venture into places where complex mathematics (terms involving the square root of -1) are required.

    Could you give an example of a rule and its conditions?
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    2/3a -5 = 1/3 a +5
    to get rid of 2/3a I multiply by 3/2 which equals -5 = 1/2a + 5
    -10 = 1/2a
    -5=a

    Oh mate. Two things wrong.

    1.) You need to multiply everything by 3/2, including the -5 and +5. For whatever reason, you've multiplied the 1/3a to give 1/2a, which is correct, but ignored -5 and +5.

    2.) 2/3a * 3/2 = a. I'm not quite sure why you're under the impression that it disappears.

    So it actually equals: a - 15/2 = a/2 + 15/2

    It solves to a = 15.

    ecco the dolphin on
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  • theclamtheclam Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Your school probably has a learning assistance/disability center. Even if you don't have a "learning disability" I'm sure they get tons of people going to them for help with math.

    edit:
    Actually, a = 30.

    a - 15/2 = a/2 + 15/2
    a = a/2 + 30/2
    a/2 = 30/2
    a = 30

    theclam on
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  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    In class I am pretty sure that is how we were taught, to only multiply it by one thing, unless there is some other way to do it where you do not have to multiply it throughout. Why do you do that anyways? Shouldn't it cancel out by just doing it once?

    I think I am memorizing shortcuts, which I have no fucking interest in doing but my teacher keeps teaching us all these stupid rhymes and shit (its one of those classes) to memorize stuff to do the easy way. I hate the class actually, everyone in the class is perfectly happy to memorize all that bullshit and never question why it works.

    Also I can not get a tutor, the teacher only shows up a few minutes early and does not have much time after class. I am in the military so I am lucky to even be able to take this class, I have had to drop two classes already because I had no time.

    Fizban140 on
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    theclam wrote: »
    Your school probably has a learning assistance/disability center. Even if you don't have a "learning disability" I'm sure they get tons of people going to them for help with math.

    edit:
    Actually, a = 30.

    a - 15/2 = a/2 + 15/2
    a = a/2 + 30/2
    a/2 = 30/2
    a = 30

    Haha, so it is. =P I fail, clearly.

    ecco the dolphin on
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  • IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Good catch. I think it might be better for teaching purposes like this, though:

    (2/3)a -5 = (1/3)a +5
    (2/3)a = (1/3)a +10
    (2/3-1/3)a = 10
    (1/3)a = 10
    a = 10*3
    a = 30

    Iroh on
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  • BoutrosBoutros Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    To preserve equality you always have to do the same thing to both sides of the equation. So if you are multiplying both sides by 3/2 you have to multiply the entirety of each side of the equation by this factor and use the distributive property of multiplication to see that this results in multiplying each individual term by 3/2.

    Boutros on
  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    As an example I do not see why this does not work.

    2/3a -5 = 1/3 a +5
    to get rid of 2/3a I multiply by 3/2 which equals -5 = 1/2a + 5
    -10 = 1/2a
    -5=a

    What you did wrong there was only multiplying half of the problem.

    All you know is that the left half of the equation is equal to the right half of the equation, so if you were to multiply just the 2/3a and the 1/3a by 3/2, you will no longer know if the sides are equal- in fact, you could pretty easily show that they would not be. Pretend the sides of the equation have parentheses around them, that could make it easier.

    Whenever you use multiplication or division on an algebra equation, you need to apply it to every term, because otherwise you're dealing with unequal portions of the same quantity.

    Also, when you multiply 3/2 and 2/3a, you get a, because 2/3 times 3/2 equals 1.

    Were I to solve this equation, i would first add five to each side, and then subtract 1/3a from each side.
    2/3a -5 +5=1/3a +5 +5
    2/3a =1/3a +10
    1/3a = 10
    3(1/3 a)=3(10)
    a=30 (or 1/30 if I misunderstood your notation, and you intended one over 2a, as opposed to one half of a)

    Edit: Beaten while writing my novel.

    Tarantio on
  • GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Honestly, when dealing with algebra there are three basic rules.
    1. Whatever you do to one side of the equation, you must do EXACTLY THE SAME THING to the other side.
    2. Your goal is to isolate the variable you're solving for, meaning get it by itself on one side of the equation.
    3. In order to do that, you must undo whatever operations are there. If there's addition, you have to subtract. If there's multiplication, you need to divide.

    Actually, make it 4.
    4. If you are multiplying or dividing both sides of an equation by a number, you must make sure that all the terms on both sides are multiplied or divided. That's called the Distributive Property.

    Also, one of the most important things you can do to improve your algebra is get in the habit of checking your answer, every single question. If you identify when you've made a mistake, you can then work on finding and fixing it. Never, ever assume your answer is right.

    GoodOmens on
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  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    Boutros wrote: »
    To preserve equality you always have to do the same thing to both sides of the equation. So if you are multiplying both sides by 3/2 you have to multiply the entirety of each side of the equation by this factor and use the distributive property of multiplication to see that this results in multiplying each individual term by 3/2.
    That makes a lot of sense, because if I am subtracting 2 I only do it once since it is just subtraction but if I am multiplying by two that would be everything since only doing it once would not double that side. Does that sound right?

    Fizban140 on
  • FunkyWaltDoggFunkyWaltDogg Columbia, SCRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Boutros wrote: »
    To preserve equality you always have to do the same thing to both sides of the equation. So if you are multiplying both sides by 3/2 you have to multiply the entirety of each side of the equation by this factor and use the distributive property of multiplication to see that this results in multiplying each individual term by 3/2.
    That makes a lot of sense, because if I am subtracting 2 I only do it once since it is just subtraction but if I am multiplying by two that would be everything since only doing it once would not double that side. Does that sound right?

    That is right.

    FunkyWaltDogg on
  • ElinElin Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Memorize what he tells you to memorize and don't fight him. Honest. Mine does the same thing and I somehow pulled a B in there. Singing the quadratic formula to "pop goes the weasel." I've never, ever gotten a B in math in my life, in fact, I failed Geometry twice in high school. Math is different, it does have rules that are best answered "because that's how it works" with no further explanation.

    We also had a rote memory quiz that he drilled us with to deal with exponents, so helpful. And the way I got it was

    a = 30
    2/3a - 5 = 1/3a +5
    3[2/3a - 5 = 1/3a + 5]
    2a - 15 = a +15
    a = 30

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  • theclamtheclam Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    In class I am pretty sure that is how we were taught, to only multiply it by one thing, unless there is some other way to do it where you do not have to multiply it throughout. Why do you do that anyways? Shouldn't it cancel out by just doing it once?

    I think I am memorizing shortcuts, which I have no fucking interest in doing but my teacher keeps teaching us all these stupid rhymes and shit (its one of those classes) to memorize stuff to do the easy way. I hate the class actually, everyone in the class is perfectly happy to memorize all that bullshit and never question why it works.

    Also I can not get a tutor, the teacher only shows up a few minutes early and does not have much time after class. I am in the military so I am lucky to even be able to take this class, I have had to drop two classes already because I had no time.

    When you multiply an equation with an equals sign, you have to multiply everything on both sides of the equation by the same thing. If you multiply the 'a' terms by 3/2, then you're only manipulating a part of each side. Since you don't really know what 'a' is yet, you can't really know how much you're increasing each side. So, what happens is, you're increasing one side by more than the other, so it's no longer equal.

    Memorizing shortcuts and learning rhymes is a stupid way to learn math. In my opinion, the best way to learn is to do word problems with physical real world objects. That's how I did it and it makes it really easy to see how everything gets manipulated.

    theclam on
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  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Boutros wrote: »
    To preserve equality you always have to do the same thing to both sides of the equation. So if you are multiplying both sides by 3/2 you have to multiply the entirety of each side of the equation by this factor and use the distributive property of multiplication to see that this results in multiplying each individual term by 3/2.
    That makes a lot of sense, because if I am subtracting 2 I only do it once since it is just subtraction but if I am multiplying by two that would be everything since only doing it once would not double that side. Does that sound right?

    Yes, except for the part of "only doing it once." Multiplying by each term is only doing it once, because you'll do that every time. That's just how I'd think of it.

    Edit: In defense of memorizing little rhymes and things, you will want to know the quadratic formula, and it's a little faster to use the formula for squaring a binomial, and there are all sorts of trigonometric identities and integrations that it's only reasonable to just memorize. Some things will require it, or become easier because of it, even if many of the little rhymes aren't necessary.

    Tarantio on
  • WickerBasketWickerBasket Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »

    As an example I do not see why this does not work.

    2/3a -5 = 1/3 a +5
    to get rid of 2/3a I multiply by 3/2 which equals -5 = 1/2a + 5
    -10 = 1/2a
    -5=a

    2/3a -5 = 1/3 a +5 multiply everything by 3 as it makes everything into whole numbers (easier to deal with)
    2a - 15 = a + 15 take the 15 from the left side add it to the right side
    2a = a + 30 take the a from the right side and minus it from the left side
    a = 30

    WickerBasket on
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  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    2y-1 = 5y-1
    wtf?

    The problem is 2(y-1/2) = 4(y-1/4) +y

    Fizban140 on
  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    2y-1 = 5y-1
    wtf?

    Well, try it. You should be able to do this pretty much exactly the same way as any method that solved the last one.

    Tarantio on
  • WickerBasketWickerBasket Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    2y-1 = 5y-1
    wtf?

    2y-1 = 5y -1
    2y = 5y
    so since 2y and 5 y are equal to each other they must be 0
    so y = 0

    WickerBasket on
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  • ElinElin Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    off the top of your head you can see y=0, it's the only thing that satisfies both sides of the equation.

    2y - 1 = 5y = 1
    2y = 5y
    -3y = 0
    y = 0

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  • theclamtheclam Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    2y-1 = 5y-1
    wtf?

    The easiest way to do any algebra equation is to get the variable you want to solve for (y, in this case) and get all copies of it on one side.

    So, subtract 2y from each side:

    -1 = 3y - 1

    Then, you want to get everything else on the opposite side from your variable.

    Add 1 to each side.

    0 = 3y

    Now that your variable is isolated, you can multiply/divide/square/whatever to get it down to just that variable.

    Divide by 3.

    0 = y

    theclam on
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  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    This might be more obvious if you get all of the terms with the variable on one side of the equation, and everything else on the other side.

    It's not as hard to figure out what a is when -3a=0

    And again, beaten. Twice.

    Tarantio on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    So if it is any number x = 0 then x=0?
    2q+12=q

    2q/1q= 2q
    12=2q
    q=6

    but the answer is suppose to be -12 and it works when I put it in.

    Fizban140 on
  • theclamtheclam Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    So if it is any number x = 0 then x=0?

    Also 2q+5 = q-7

    Yes, any number multiplied by x will equal 0.

    You can use the same method I put above to solve that.

    theclam on
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  • WickerBasketWickerBasket Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    WickerBasket on
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  • IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    So if it is any number x = 0 then x=0?
    2q+12=q

    2q/1q= 2q
    12=2q
    q=6

    but the answer is suppose to be -12 and it works when I put it in.
    You shouldn't be dividing like terms. Try adding/subtracting them instead:

    2q+12 = q
    12 = q-2q
    12 = -1q
    q = 12/-1
    q = -12

    Iroh on
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  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    Iroh wrote: »
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    So if it is any number x = 0 then x=0?
    2q+12=q

    2q/1q= 2q
    12=2q
    q=6

    but the answer is suppose to be -12 and it works when I put it in.
    You shouldn't be dividing like terms. Try adding/subtracting them instead:

    2q+12 = q
    12 = q-2q
    12 = -1q
    q = 12/-1
    q = -12

    Motherfucker, I swear there was a problem earlier where I wanted to do subtraction but it would not work and I have to divide, this is the shit that kills me.

    Fizban140 on
  • BoutrosBoutros Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    So if it is any number x = 0 then x=0?
    2q+12=q

    2q/1q= 2q
    12=2q
    q=6

    but the answer is suppose to be -12 and it works when I put it in.

    I don't know what your first step there is supposed to be. Where did the 12 go?

    2q+12=q

    subtract 2q from both sides

    12 = q-2q

    12= -q

    q=-12

    Oops, didn't realize it had gone to a second page.

    Boutros on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    Like this -3x+1=5-2x

    -3x=4-2x
    -5x=4

    Do I subtract or divide? I think I would divide because they are not like terms? But if they were like terms I would subtract? More rules to remember...

    Fizban140 on
  • BoutrosBoutros Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    You need to add 2x to both sides to cancel out the -2x on the right. You subtracted 2x from the left side and added 2x to the right side, which is not correct. You did right with the 1 though. Then you would divide both sides by the coefficient of x.

    Boutros on
  • IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Like this -3x+1=5-2x

    -3x=4-2x
    -5x=4

    Do I subtract or divide? I think I would divide because they are not like terms? But if they were like terms I would subtract? More rules to remember...
    Okay, once you get down that far you do get to divide by -5, but that would still be wrong because you needed to add 2x to both sides, not subtract.

    -3x = 4-2x
    -3x + 2x = 4
    -1x = 4
    x = 4/-1
    x = -4

    Once all your x terms are combined on one side, divide by the number in front (called the coefficient).

    Iroh on
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  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    Son of a bitch this is frustrating, I need more to drink. I keep making the same mistakes. I do not understand how everyone can remember all this. I have trouble remember the simple stuff like how to add and multiply fractions, now I have to remember all this too.

    Fizban140 on
  • DemerdarDemerdar Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    So if it is any number x = 0 then x=0?
    2q+12=q

    2q/1q= 2q
    12=2q
    q=6

    but the answer is suppose to be -12 and it works when I put it in.

    Easiest way of doing algebra is to get your numbers on one side of the equal sign, and your variables on the other side like this:

    2q+12 = q
    q + 12 = 0
    q=-12

    Remember, you can ALWAYS check your answer by pluging it back into the equation, try it:
    2q + 12 =q

    if q = -12...

    2(-12) + 12 = -12
    -24 + 12 = -12
    -12 = -12

    And it works.

    What you were trying to do was multiply the equation in whichever fashion you saw fit. You can't do this. If you were going to divide the entire equation by q you would get this:

    2q + 12 = q .. dividing BOTH sides by q (remember you HAVE to divide BOTH sides)

    2 + 12/q = 1 (remember, 2q/1q = 2, not 2q. Those variables go AWAY when you divide them out.. E.G. q^2/q = q)


    But that really doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense to do it that way.. however... if you are to plug in -12 (the answer we got before) it will work out.. lets see...

    2 + 12/-12 = 1
    2 - 1 = 1 YES this does work.

    Just remember, you aren't CHANGING the equation at all by preforming operations on it, you are just changing the way it looks, but the equation is still the same. This is the very crux of algebraic manipulation and computation.

    I suggest getting a tutor.

    Demerdar on
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  • DemerdarDemerdar Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Son of a bitch this is frustrating, I need more to drink. I keep making the same mistakes. I do not understand how everyone can remember all this. I have trouble remember the simple stuff like how to add and multiply fractions, now I have to remember all this too.

    It's really not as difficult as you are trying to make it. Just make sure you deliberately write out each step of what you are doing, as to catch simple arithemetic errors (such as subtracting when you are supposed to be adding).

    Demerdar on
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  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    I can not get a tutor, I do not have the time and my school does not have any.

    Also I am having trouble understand why I can not divide like terms.

    Fizban140 on
  • SavantSavant Simply Barbaric Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I'd recommend not skipping any steps until you feel comfortable with it. There's a pretty concise set of rules you use for basic algebra, and if you want I could dig them up in a short format if you want.

    So for example, here is a extremely verbose version of 2q+12=q:

    2q + 12 = q
    (2q +12) - q = (q) - q
    (2q - q) + 12 = 0
    (2 - 1) * q + 12 = 0
    (1) * q + 12 = 0
    q + 12 = 0
    (q + 12) - 12 = 0 - 12
    q + (12 - 12) = -12
    q + 0 = -12
    q = -12

    Now, you could probably skip a bunch of the steps in there, but you might want to start from the basics and skip nothing.

    Savant on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2008
    I just did about 10 problems and got them all right, I think I am doing a little better but I have two more sets of homework problems to do over the weekend so I will see if I can still retain all this information.

    Fizban140 on
  • IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    I can not get a tutor, I do not have the time and my school does not have any.

    Also I am having trouble understand why I can not divide like terms.
    It doesn't serve any purpose to divide both sides of an equation by any multiple of a variable. All it does it put that variable in the denominator of a fraction somewhere else. For instance:

    2q + 12 = q

    If I divide everything by q, I get:

    2 + 12/q = 1

    All I accomplished was having to multiply both sides by q again later:

    12/q = 1-2
    12/q = -1
    12 = -1q
    q = 12/-1
    q = -12

    Iroh on
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  • DemerdarDemerdar Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    I can not get a tutor, I do not have the time and my school does not have any.

    Also I am having trouble understand why I can not divide like terms.

    You can. You can divide ANYTHING BY ANYTHING fizban. You just have to make sure you are doing it RIGHT and not skipping steps or not following rules. You can add anything to anything. You can do whatever the hell you want, as long as you are following the rules.

    Take for instance:

    2q + 12 = q

    You can add 5 to both sides.

    2q + 17 = q + 5

    now lets divide everything by q.

    2 + 17/q = 1 + 5/q

    And guess what, you'll still get the same answer :) It just takes practice, keep doing your homework it'll come to you.

    Demerdar on
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