Fuck home brew if it lets cheat-modders play with regular peeps.
Exactly. Cheating, penis attacks, griefing, and the inevitable tech problems... and people wonder why Nintendo got annoyed.
I don't mean to be inflammatory, but if Nintendo had a better online security (or security in general) system in place this wouldn't be a problem. These sort of problems have been handled in the PC world for decades and in the console market with Microsoft (and Sony to a lesser extent).
Is this Bob's Game thing new? I can't tell exactly when his protest started; the latest video there was posted in September, so...
I get the impression there was supposed to be a counter.
Either way it doesn't matter, his game looks terrible. Ooh, I have so many characters, and a weather system!
It looks to me like a decent, if not mindblowing, indie game, but it's tough to see what's really there behind all the "OMG I MADE THIS MUHSELF AREN'T I AWESOME" crap. Seriously, someone should show this guy Cave Story.
Fuck home brew if it lets cheat-modders play with regular peeps.
Exactly. Cheating, penis attacks, griefing, and the inevitable tech problems... and people wonder why Nintendo got annoyed.
I don't mean to be inflammatory, but if Nintendo had a better online security (or security in general) system in place this wouldn't be a problem. These sort of problems have been handled in the PC world for decades and in the console market with Microsoft (and Sony to a lesser extent).
Yes, because cheating hacks absolutely don't exist in the PC world.
cloudeagle on
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Dusdais ashamed of this postSLC, UTRegistered Userregular
Fuck home brew if it lets cheat-modders play with regular peeps.
Exactly. Cheating, penis attacks, griefing, and the inevitable tech problems... and people wonder why Nintendo got annoyed.
I don't mean to be inflammatory, but if Nintendo had a better online security (or security in general) system in place this wouldn't be a problem. These sort of problems have been handled in the PC world for decades and in the console market with Microsoft (and Sony to a lesser extent).
Yes, because cheating hacks absolutely don't exist in the PC world.
That's not what I mean. Valve VAC servers don't let you replace your Counter Terrorist with:
Fuck home brew if it lets cheat-modders play with regular peeps.
Exactly. Cheating, penis attacks, griefing, and the inevitable tech problems... and people wonder why Nintendo got annoyed.
I don't mean to be inflammatory, but if Nintendo had a better online security (or security in general) system in place this wouldn't be a problem. These sort of problems have been handled in the PC world for decades and in the console market with Microsoft (and Sony to a lesser extent).
This wouldn't be a problem if Nintendo's open platform wasn't compromised in the first place.
This is the core of the issue. The Wii is not a PC.
You're right. They should do client side checks to make sure everything is the same. But unfortunately they didn't... So now we're stuck with what we got.
So, as a total simpleton with this stuff, what are the odds Nintendo just went
"Hey that guys fucking with Brawl. Thats OUR game. Shut him down."
and that's that.
Im not trying to be a wiseass, but do companies like this ever just shut shit down because they feel like it, or would they honestly need a bigger reason because of the legal effort involved to make it worthwhile?
mxmarks on
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
I think I have heard of a case where some company's lawyers were distributing some C&Ds at some people without the company's knowledge or approval...I don't remember the specific case unfortunately.
Fuck home brew if it lets cheat-modders play with regular peeps.
Exactly. Cheating, penis attacks, griefing, and the inevitable tech problems... and people wonder why Nintendo got annoyed.
I don't mean to be inflammatory, but if Nintendo had a better online security (or security in general) system in place this wouldn't be a problem. These sort of problems have been handled in the PC world for decades and in the console market with Microsoft (and Sony to a lesser extent).
Yes, because cheating hacks absolutely don't exist in the PC world.
That's not what I mean. Valve VAC servers don't let you replace your Counter Terrorist with:
You can make your CT look like that if you really wanted, actually. VAC or no.
There was no legal effort. Nintendo caught word of the project and sent a boilerplate (i.e. standard and non-specialized) Cease and Desist letter to the project leads. A C&D letter is pretty much just a notice that a party feels that it can bring a suit against you (or otherwise legally act), and that if you don't cease and desist from doing the offending action then they will do so.
They're far cheaper than actually getting a court to tell you to stop, and they're effectiveness is based on how much either party really wants to deal with the consequences. They are for the most part a threat, and like in any situation where a threat is made, the bluff can be called, the threatened party may not feel that the other party can realistically make good on the threat, and / or one party can think they are in the right to the point that the situation escalates. In this case, ]EE[ obliged and did what Nintendo asked, which is often the case since a large corporation's resources far outstrip those of a random fan project, and both parties know it.
I can't really state their motives for doing so, but Nintendo probably saw the possibility of its IP weakening or (more likely) saw a means for them to be opened to legal action by another party (likely because some of the new textures were from other rights' holders).
Honestly, if I were in charge of the project, I would simply provide a front end for swapping textures, and let the user decide which ones to get a hold of and use (at a separate site entirely).
I agree that there is plenty of legal basis for Nintendo to do this.
It is also a fucking stupid decision on their part and Very Bad PR®.
In other, tangentially related news, this isn't the only place they're acting in a vaguely Nazi-esque manner regarding their closed platform.
How dramatic. He should just sign up for Xbox community games.
It's obviously a PR stunt too, but that doesn't mean Nintendo is acting intelligently or in a manner worthy of support :P
How exactly is protecting their closed platform and having a having a zero tolerance policy for Wii-hacking unintelligent?
We are probably taking 1% of their installed user base that give a damn. Whether they benefit from this move in the long run is open to debate, but shutting this down is of very little risk to them.
Nice statistic. Cite please.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I agree that there is plenty of legal basis for Nintendo to do this.
It is also a fucking stupid decision on their part and Very Bad PR®.
In other, tangentially related news, this isn't the only place they're acting in a vaguely Nazi-esque manner regarding their closed platform.
How dramatic. He should just sign up for Xbox community games.
It's obviously a PR stunt too, but that doesn't mean Nintendo is acting intelligently or in a manner worthy of support :P
How exactly is protecting their closed platform and having a having a zero tolerance policy for Wii-hacking unintelligent?
We are probably taking 1% of their installed user base that give a damn. Whether they benefit from this move in the long run is open to debate, but shutting this down is of very little risk to them.
Nice statistic. Cite please.
He said probably. You do know that most people aren't online, though, right? It might not be as low as 1%, which wasn't supposed to be taken literally, obviously, but it's not going to be a huge problem for them if some tiny group of the minority is upset enough to argue on the internet.
I agree that there is plenty of legal basis for Nintendo to do this.
It is also a fucking stupid decision on their part and Very Bad PR®.
In other, tangentially related news, this isn't the only place they're acting in a vaguely Nazi-esque manner regarding their closed platform.
How dramatic. He should just sign up for Xbox community games.
It's obviously a PR stunt too, but that doesn't mean Nintendo is acting intelligently or in a manner worthy of support :P
How exactly is protecting their closed platform and having a having a zero tolerance policy for Wii-hacking unintelligent?
We are probably taking 1% of their installed user base that give a damn. Whether they benefit from this move in the long run is open to debate, but shutting this down is of very little risk to them.
Nice statistic. Cite please.
Nice dodge. Try and answer the question part of his post.
First download this PDF from Nintedo here. It's is Nintendo's Annual report. It basically tells everything you need to know about Nintendo's money situation.
I direct you to page 20. Near the bottom of the page, you are going to find a category on the left hand side called "Total intangible assets"
Now I want you to follow across to the right side of the page, you will find the number "20,098".
Let me explain what that means.
Companies have something called "assets" that's just a fancy word meaning "Valuable stuff the company owns." The line item I pointed out is the total value of their imaginary stuff. Things like Mario, and Link, and other characters are stuffed in there. Basically it's the value of the Intellectual Property, Trademarks, Patents, Copyrights and such. In this case the "20,098" number is in thousands of dollars. The actual value is $20,098,000. In other words, A touch over $20 Million dollars.
Now the reason why this is separate from "normal" assets (stuff) is that the value is completely made up based on a "perceived value", not what it can be sold for. If Nintendo ever goes out of business and needed to be liquidated, (Sold off for cash), that number becomes zero because it's not a physical thing someone can sell. In the U.S. the price of a company's Intellectual Property is called "Goodwill" and not put directly into the balance sheet. When you see a C&D sent to a bunch of hackers that claims that the company's "goodwill" has been damaged, that is they number they are using.
When you damage the perceived value of a company's goodwill, they will come after you with layers. This devalues their company a hurts their bottom line. It has nothing to do with how "nice" a company is. It only superficially deals with trademarks and copyrights, and that's all the reason they need. Nintendo has to answer to it's shareholders and when the balance sheets go down, that means the company is worth less money.
See, when you guys bitch about meanie companies spoiling the fun of some homebrewers, you have to remember that Nintendo is a fucking business. They are not only out to make the best product they can, but to maintain a high value of their companies stocks. When you "damage" a game, you are, in effect "damaging" Nintendo itself.
That's why they have to be pricks about it.
This is why any publicly traded company has to be pricks about it. (Squaresoft, etc)
Now, I hope this answers your question. If you still don't understand, then you never will, and your whines will fall on deaf ears.
So tell us how this group of fans with their texture mods in a forgotten corner of the internet winds up on the business sheet.
In the form of a school house rock, if you don't mind.
I am imagining a bulleted list with things like
- Super Mario World hacked into autoplaying levels such that the sound effects play the theme to "Lucky Star".....-$500,000
or
Analysts changed their rating on nintendo from hold to sell Monday, after Pokemon was hacked with sprites replaced by underage girls dressed as Pokemon.
So tell us how this group of fans with their texture mods in a forgotten corner of the internet winds up on the business sheet.
In the form of a school house rock, if you don't mind.
1) Doesn't seem a very forgotten corner, does it.
2) You are in a position to damage their game, and, in effect it's perceived value. If Nintendo does not vigorously defend their trademarks, they can lose them. Also, derivative changes to copyrighted works are illegal. Even "translation patches" are illegal because the translation is derived from the original work.
Here is the actual copyright code, taken from the U.S. Copyright office.
§ 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works38
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;
(3) ....
Creating an ISO violates #1 and creating textures based off the original violates #2. You really can't much more clear than that.
===EDIT===
As a matter of disclosure, I was involved in Sony v. Connectix lawsuit. I happen to know a thing or two about this crap. It really gets my goat when people don't get where the company is coming from.
Yeah how illegal it is has been driven into the ground.
And hell yeah it's a forgotten corner - no one had even heard of this before nintendo shut them down. Now the second group is going to release it anyway with more publicity, so if this really hurts nintendo, all they did was make it worse and come off as dicks.
But thank goodness their copyright is safe, because this was totally a legitimate threat. After the moemon incident they are pretty much on the verge of losing pokemon, now.
You'd think with all the half-life mods that valve would be under by now, or does that not count because valve allows people to mod it?
edit: uh so how did that connectix thing work out? quick googling says that connectix's emulator didn't infringe on sony's copyright.
Connectix’s reverse engineering of the Sony BIOS extracted from a Sony PlayStation console purchased by Connectix engineers is protected as a fair use. Other intermediate copies of the Sony BIOS made by Connectix,if they infringed Sony’s copyright, do not justify injunctive relief. For these reasons, the district court’s <203 F.3d 610> injunction is dissolved and the case is remanded to the district court. We also reverse the district court’s finding that Connectix’s Virtual Game Station has tarnished the Sony PlayStation mark
I agree that there is plenty of legal basis for Nintendo to do this.
It is also a fucking stupid decision on their part and Very Bad PR®.
In other, tangentially related news, this isn't the only place they're acting in a vaguely Nazi-esque manner regarding their closed platform.
How dramatic. He should just sign up for Xbox community games.
It's obviously a PR stunt too, but that doesn't mean Nintendo is acting intelligently or in a manner worthy of support :P
How exactly is protecting their closed platform and having a having a zero tolerance policy for Wii-hacking unintelligent?
We are probably taking 1% of their installed user base that give a damn. Whether they benefit from this move in the long run is open to debate, but shutting this down is of very little risk to them.
Nice statistic. Cite please.
Nice dodge. Try and answer the question part of his post.
His whole post was a dodge; a smokescreen made of generalizations and made-up figures. I understand his point, but he wasn't exactly supporting it with anything.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Yeah how illegal it is has been driven into the ground.
Then I don't see the argument is.
And hell yeah it's a forgotten corner - no one had even heard of this before nintendo shut them down.
Well, obviously since Nintendo was hawking it, it proved to be of great interest to them.
Now the second group is going to release it anyway with more publicity, so if this really hurts nintendo, all they did was make it worse and come off as dicks.
I'm sure the shareholders are all teary-eyed
But thank goodness their copyright is safe, because this was totally a legitimate threat. After the moemon incident they are pretty much on the verge of losing pokemon, now.
That patch to work will not work on a DSi. Guess what's being slated to be discontinued.
Look, if you want to develop for Nintendo, you get a software title under your belt and lease a devkit for $10,000 like the rest of us.
His whole post was a dodge; a smokescreen made of generalizations and made-up figures. I understand his point, but he wasn't exactly supporting it with anything.
Download the PDF and read it yourself. Goodwill is a an actual economic system used on balance sheets. You can read about it here. I'm sorry if economic theory is difficult to understand. I'm just answering the question.
Now the second group is going to release it anyway with more publicity, so if this really hurts nintendo, all they did was make it worse and come off as dicks.
I'm sure the shareholders are all teary-eyed
Uh? Supposedly they are going to be furious about this when this thing comes out it is going to rock nintendo's perceived value to the core, right?
That patch to work will not work on a DSi. Guess what's being slated to be discontinued.
Yeah it won't work 'cause gba games won't work on it. I'm sure that's all due to moemon?
The argument is "what is the point of this". Just because something is legal to do doesn't mean it is right to do! It looks like nintendo shitting on a bunch of guys just screwing around. You claim that it's for the purpose of protecting their apparently made-up perceived value, and still haven't answered how such a thing is measured, and how these kind of hacks can, and in the past supposedly did, damage it.
What question do you think you are answering?
Your link there even advises to ignore the intangible assets line, and claims investors only look at the income statement?
Hate the system dude, why do you think the RIAA sues someone for $1 Million dollars for 7 songs that cost $6.93 on iTunes. World's not fair dude. I'm just giving you information. Yea, it's screwy and broken, but that's the system we use. You want to know why copyright always gets extended? If copyright was magically made only 15 years every company would get have to amortize (depreciate) their IP and lose a chunk of their value overnight.
You are also talking about a Japanese company. Japan doesn't not have fair use rights and that is part of their culture.
Nintendo isn't you friend either, stop treating them as such.
I suggest you wipe the tears of nerd rage from you eyes, the guys who made the patch are seem to be a buch of asshats anyway.
Hate the system dude, why do you think the RIAA sues someone for $1 Million dollars for 7 songs that cost $6.93 on iTunes. World's not fair dude. I'm just giving you information. Yea, it's screwy and broken, but that's the system we use. You want to know why copyright always gets extended? If copyright was magically made only 15 years every company would get have to amortize (depreciate) their IP and lose a chunk of their value overnight.
You are also talking about a Japanese company. Japan doesn't not have fair use rights and that is part of their culture.
Nintendo isn't you friend either, stop treating them as such.
I suggest you wipe the tears of nerd rage from you eyes, the guys who made the patch are seem to be a buch of asshats anyway.
I am aware of Nintendo's status as a company who likes money! However, this is the first example of such behavior from them, isn't it? Previously I asked for some tales of Nintendo Dickery and received a grand total of 0 instances.
Also for japan having no fair use rights and it being a part of their culture they sure do parody a ton of shit.
I guess I am just stunned by Nintendo's action? I mean obviously you are one of those "nintendo's not your friend" guys, but this does seem to really be an unprecedented move by them....unless you have some examples.
Atari v. Nintendo - Successfully made it illegal to create 3rd party applications that went around lock out restrictions. (Unless it's for scientific study)
Just because you are not a company does not make you immune to lawyers
I guess I am just stunned by Nintendo's action? I mean obviously you are one of those "nintendo's not your friend" guys, but this does seem to really be an unprecedented move by them....unless you have some examples.
They are a big company and they do dickish things sometimes. There are many examples outside of homebrew/hacking (treatment of third parties during hubris era, the whole CD-I thing which of course was on both sides) and plenty within as well (Wii firmware updates specifically to block homebrewers).
I just googled "nintendo cease and desist," took no time at all, and three or four random things popped up right away.
Games giant out to catch pirates
* October 26, 2008
ENTERTAINMENT giant Nintendo is cracking down on gaming pirates.
...
Greg Arthurton, director of marketing at Nintendo, said the company was taking steps to protect its intellectual property.
The company has sent cease and desist letters to backyard operators in Australia who are selling equipment that allows users to play pirated games.
Nintendo Threatens Cancer Researchers
Thursday, December 15th, 2005 11:53 am
aka “Pokémon Producers Pissed”
Pier Paolo Pandolfi of Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center has apparently received a trademark cease & desist from the Pokémon company (Nintendo) after cancer-related research on the Pokemon gene — which Pandolfi’s lab named four years ago, in 2001 — received headlines like “Pokemon Causes Cancer”.
>It has come to our attention that you are offering on your
>Website, "<REMOVED>," unauthorized copies of
>Nintendo video game titles available for downloading as well
>as software which emulates Nintendo's proprietary hardware
>systems (commonly referred to as "emulators"). This letter
>constitutes a demand that you immediately cease offering,
>reproducing and distributing Nintendo's video game titles and
>emulators by removing all such references from your
>Website.
Zodiac Game Boy Advance emulator released
But minus... er... GBA emulation
Posted in Mobile, 31st March 2004 10:36 GMT
Firestorm, the Nintendo Game Boy emulator for Tapwave's Zodiac handheld games console, has gone on sale despite the threat of legal action from the Japanese video game company.
The $20 emulator was posted earlier this week and is available from developer Crimson Fire's web site.
That said, the software is incomplete. Currently, it provides only Game Boy and Game Boy Colour emulation and not the much-vaunted support for Game Boy Advance titles. CF blames the missing feature on "a serious compiler bug".
...
So why release an incomplete product and still charge for it? To cover the company should Nintendo follow up on its threats. Earlier this month, Nintendo sent CF a cease and desist letter, claiming that the emulator infringes on its intellectual property.
Tons throughout the years.
The thing is, these things are clearly not perfectly analogous to this particular C&D, so you can easily say that they are not past examples of C&Ds issued and Nintendo is still Our Friend.
So why release an incomplete product and still charge for it? To cover the company should Nintendo follow up on its threats. Earlier this month, Nintendo sent CF a cease and desist letter, claiming that the emulator infringes on its intellectual property.
Which is funny because no$gba is sold as a development tool. (Which, I know is actually purchased as such in many dev houses)
I just wanted to point something out in terms of hacks for Brawl online. Move swaps are the ONLY hacks (as of now) that work without both parties running the hacks in tandem. Texture hacks, because of the nature of the mods, only work on the TV/console native to the hack (because the hacks are on the actual disc, the textures aren't sent online). Same with any gameplay hacks like no tripping or faster characters (the two games de-sync during play and crash the games). The move hacks, though, work because called-upon moves are transmitted online (the games tell each other what movements the characters make) and so a Luigi on a non-hacked console can still FP if the hacker's console tells it to. Just to clarify, I can hack as many dicks into my Brawl disc as I want, and you won't see a single one online.
So tell us how this group of fans with their texture mods in a forgotten corner of the internet winds up on the business sheet.
In the form of a school house rock, if you don't mind.
I am imagining a bulleted list with things like
- Super Mario World hacked into autoplaying levels such that the sound effects play the theme to "Lucky Star".....-$500,000
or
Analysts changed their rating on nintendo from hold to sell Monday, after Pokemon was hacked with sprites replaced by underage girls dressed as Pokemon.
When mothers see penises fighting Mario on the evening news Nintendo's bottom line suffers. It doesn't matter that Nintendo didn't have anything to do with it, the mothers are still going to stop buying Nintendo products.
Quite a lot of those are about nintendo fighting people stealing their games, which one could hardly call dickish, not to mention the "pokemon causes cancer" thing.
The game genie one is interesting since...it seems to apply to exactly this?
was a court case which established the rights of users to modify copyrighted works for their own use.
Galoob manufactured an add-on product called Game Genie, which allowed users to modify video games by entering in certain codes; for example, a code might make the player invincible by negating the programming that updates the player's health amount. Nintendo, which sold a video game system and video games that could be modified by Game Genie, sued Galoob for copyright infringement, arguing that Game Genie made a derivative work, violating Nintendo's copyright in their video game.
The Court denied Nintendo's motion for a preliminary injunction, holding that Game Genie did not create a derivative work and also suggesting that even if it did, it might well be fair use. As the district court wrote, "Having paid Nintendo a fair return, the consumer may experiment with the product and create new variations of play, for personal enjoyment, without creating a derivative work."
Quite a lot of those are about nintendo fighting people stealing their games, which one could hardly call dickish, not to mention the "pokemon causes cancer" thing.
The game genie one is interesting since...it seems to apply to exactly this?
was a court case which established the rights of users to modify copyrighted works for their own use.
Galoob manufactured an add-on product called Game Genie, which allowed users to modify video games by entering in certain codes; for example, a code might make the player invincible by negating the programming that updates the player's health amount. Nintendo, which sold a video game system and video games that could be modified by Game Genie, sued Galoob for copyright infringement, arguing that Game Genie made a derivative work, violating Nintendo's copyright in their video game.
The Court denied Nintendo's motion for a preliminary injunction, holding that Game Genie did not create a derivative work and also suggesting that even if it did, it might well be fair use. As the district court wrote, "Having paid Nintendo a fair return, the consumer may experiment with the product and create new variations of play, for personal enjoyment, without creating a derivative work."
So tell us how this group of fans with their texture mods in a forgotten corner of the internet winds up on the business sheet.
In the form of a school house rock, if you don't mind.
I am imagining a bulleted list with things like
- Super Mario World hacked into autoplaying levels such that the sound effects play the theme to "Lucky Star".....-$500,000
or
Analysts changed their rating on nintendo from hold to sell Monday, after Pokemon was hacked with sprites replaced by underage girls dressed as Pokemon.
When mothers see penises fighting Mario on the evening news Nintendo's bottom line suffers. It doesn't matter that Nintendo didn't have anything to do with it, the mothers are still going to stop buying Nintendo products.
The only penises you can see are your own!
Would you suggest that Nintendo's pictochat application is in danger of becoming m-rated due to the ability to draw wangs?
Quite a lot of those are about nintendo fighting people stealing their games, which one could hardly call dickish, not to mention the "pokemon causes cancer" thing.
The game genie one is interesting since...it seems to apply to exactly this?
was a court case which established the rights of users to modify copyrighted works for their own use.
Galoob manufactured an add-on product called Game Genie, which allowed users to modify video games by entering in certain codes; for example, a code might make the player invincible by negating the programming that updates the player's health amount. Nintendo, which sold a video game system and video games that could be modified by Game Genie, sued Galoob for copyright infringement, arguing that Game Genie made a derivative work, violating Nintendo's copyright in their video game.
The Court denied Nintendo's motion for a preliminary injunction, holding that Game Genie did not create a derivative work and also suggesting that even if it did, it might well be fair use. As the district court wrote, "Having paid Nintendo a fair return, the consumer may experiment with the product and create new variations of play, for personal enjoyment, without creating a derivative work."
Limed for the very important difference.
I am reading "without creating a derivative work" as "this does not constitute a derivative work".
Perhaps I am reading this wrong?
So tell us how this group of fans with their texture mods in a forgotten corner of the internet winds up on the business sheet.
In the form of a school house rock, if you don't mind.
I am imagining a bulleted list with things like
- Super Mario World hacked into autoplaying levels such that the sound effects play the theme to "Lucky Star".....-$500,000
or
Analysts changed their rating on nintendo from hold to sell Monday, after Pokemon was hacked with sprites replaced by underage girls dressed as Pokemon.
When mothers see penises fighting Mario on the evening news Nintendo's bottom line suffers. It doesn't matter that Nintendo didn't have anything to do with it, the mothers are still going to stop buying Nintendo products.
The only penises you can see are your own!
Would you suggest that Nintendo's pictochat application is in danger of becoming m-rated due to the ability to draw wangs?
There already was controversy about that on the news.
Broadcasters don't care that both parties would have to mod their consoles to have fighting penises, as long as there are videos out there of someone doing it Nintendo's property is damaged and they, potentially, have angry mothers refusing to let their kids play the game.
It's not a "dick move" for a company to protect their livelihood. Even a project that starts out harmless can lead to the tainting of the characters that they've painstakingly built over decades. They've spent millions to get the Mario character where he is today, and fan patches that could lead to nude Mario fighting vaginas is not something they want to have to deal with, and isn't something they should have to deal with.
So tell us how this group of fans with their texture mods in a forgotten corner of the internet winds up on the business sheet.
In the form of a school house rock, if you don't mind.
I am imagining a bulleted list with things like
- Super Mario World hacked into autoplaying levels such that the sound effects play the theme to "Lucky Star".....-$500,000
or
Analysts changed their rating on nintendo from hold to sell Monday, after Pokemon was hacked with sprites replaced by underage girls dressed as Pokemon.
When mothers see penises fighting Mario on the evening news Nintendo's bottom line suffers. It doesn't matter that Nintendo didn't have anything to do with it, the mothers are still going to stop buying Nintendo products.
The only penises you can see are your own!
Would you suggest that Nintendo's pictochat application is in danger of becoming m-rated due to the ability to draw wangs?
There already was controversy about that on the news.
Oh ho? I remember quite a different pictochat controversy, but find me this one.
Somehow I am not seeing this media backlash from other, more easily moddable games and their self-inserted penises fighting gordon freeman.
So tell us how this group of fans with their texture mods in a forgotten corner of the internet winds up on the business sheet.
In the form of a school house rock, if you don't mind.
I am imagining a bulleted list with things like
- Super Mario World hacked into autoplaying levels such that the sound effects play the theme to "Lucky Star".....-$500,000
or
Analysts changed their rating on nintendo from hold to sell Monday, after Pokemon was hacked with sprites replaced by underage girls dressed as Pokemon.
When mothers see penises fighting Mario on the evening news Nintendo's bottom line suffers. It doesn't matter that Nintendo didn't have anything to do with it, the mothers are still going to stop buying Nintendo products.
The only penises you can see are your own!
Would you suggest that Nintendo's pictochat application is in danger of becoming m-rated due to the ability to draw wangs?
There already was controversy about that on the news.
Oh ho? I remember quite a different pictochat controversy, but find me this one.
Somehow I am not seeing this media backlash from other, more easily moddable games and their self-inserted penises fighting gordon freeman.
It wasn't in danger of becoming M-rated, but there were news stories on how kids could potentially be exposed to such things.
And Gordon Freeman is in nowhere near the same league as Mario. Ask ten people on the street about Mario, then do the same for Gordon Freeman. The results will be very different. The news media doesn't care about people modding on their PCs, but when Mario or Nintendo gets involved, you have a story.
And, as has been said before, there is a much different culture on the PC side than the console side. Kids play games on their computers, but a mom is much more likely to buy her kid the new Nintendo console than a full on gaming computer. Computers are also more often in rooms where you could fight penises without your mom knowing, whereas the Wii is more likely hooked up in the family room.
So tell us how this group of fans with their texture mods in a forgotten corner of the internet winds up on the business sheet.
In the form of a school house rock, if you don't mind.
I am imagining a bulleted list with things like
- Super Mario World hacked into autoplaying levels such that the sound effects play the theme to "Lucky Star".....-$500,000
or
Analysts changed their rating on nintendo from hold to sell Monday, after Pokemon was hacked with sprites replaced by underage girls dressed as Pokemon.
When mothers see penises fighting Mario on the evening news Nintendo's bottom line suffers. It doesn't matter that Nintendo didn't have anything to do with it, the mothers are still going to stop buying Nintendo products.
The only penises you can see are your own!
Would you suggest that Nintendo's pictochat application is in danger of becoming m-rated due to the ability to draw wangs?
There already was controversy about that on the news.
Oh ho? I remember quite a different pictochat controversy, but find me this one.
Somehow I am not seeing this media backlash from other, more easily moddable games and their self-inserted penises fighting gordon freeman.
It wasn't in danger of becoming M-rated, but there were news stories on how kids could potentially be exposed to such things.
And Gordon Freeman is in nowhere near the same league as Mario. Ask ten people on the street about Mario, then do the same for Gordon Freeman. The results will be very different. The news media doesn't care about people modding on their PCs, but when Mario or Nintendo gets involved, you have a story.
And, as has been said before, there is a much different culture on the PC side than the console side. Kids play games on their computers, but a mom is much more likely to buy her kid the new Nintendo console than a full on gaming computer. Computers are also more often in rooms where you could fight penises without your mom knowing, whereas the Wii is more likely hooked up in the family room.
This is now a thread about penises. Damn. Only 12 pages, this time.
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Exactly. Cheating, penis attacks, griefing, and the inevitable tech problems... and people wonder why Nintendo got annoyed.
I don't mean to be inflammatory, but if Nintendo had a better online security (or security in general) system in place this wouldn't be a problem. These sort of problems have been handled in the PC world for decades and in the console market with Microsoft (and Sony to a lesser extent).
It looks to me like a decent, if not mindblowing, indie game, but it's tough to see what's really there behind all the "OMG I MADE THIS MUHSELF AREN'T I AWESOME" crap. Seriously, someone should show this guy Cave Story.
Yes, because cheating hacks absolutely don't exist in the PC world.
That's not what I mean. Valve VAC servers don't let you replace your Counter Terrorist with:
This is the core of the issue. The Wii is not a PC.
"Hey that guys fucking with Brawl. Thats OUR game. Shut him down."
and that's that.
Im not trying to be a wiseass, but do companies like this ever just shut shit down because they feel like it, or would they honestly need a bigger reason because of the legal effort involved to make it worthwhile?
They're far cheaper than actually getting a court to tell you to stop, and they're effectiveness is based on how much either party really wants to deal with the consequences. They are for the most part a threat, and like in any situation where a threat is made, the bluff can be called, the threatened party may not feel that the other party can realistically make good on the threat, and / or one party can think they are in the right to the point that the situation escalates. In this case, ]EE[ obliged and did what Nintendo asked, which is often the case since a large corporation's resources far outstrip those of a random fan project, and both parties know it.
I can't really state their motives for doing so, but Nintendo probably saw the possibility of its IP weakening or (more likely) saw a means for them to be opened to legal action by another party (likely because some of the new textures were from other rights' holders).
Honestly, if I were in charge of the project, I would simply provide a front end for swapping textures, and let the user decide which ones to get a hold of and use (at a separate site entirely).
Nice statistic. Cite please.
Nice dodge. Try and answer the question part of his post.
I will show you, but you have to play along...
First download this PDF from Nintedo here. It's is Nintendo's Annual report. It basically tells everything you need to know about Nintendo's money situation.
I direct you to page 20. Near the bottom of the page, you are going to find a category on the left hand side called "Total intangible assets"
Now I want you to follow across to the right side of the page, you will find the number "20,098".
Let me explain what that means.
Companies have something called "assets" that's just a fancy word meaning "Valuable stuff the company owns." The line item I pointed out is the total value of their imaginary stuff. Things like Mario, and Link, and other characters are stuffed in there. Basically it's the value of the Intellectual Property, Trademarks, Patents, Copyrights and such. In this case the "20,098" number is in thousands of dollars. The actual value is $20,098,000. In other words, A touch over $20 Million dollars.
Now the reason why this is separate from "normal" assets (stuff) is that the value is completely made up based on a "perceived value", not what it can be sold for. If Nintendo ever goes out of business and needed to be liquidated, (Sold off for cash), that number becomes zero because it's not a physical thing someone can sell. In the U.S. the price of a company's Intellectual Property is called "Goodwill" and not put directly into the balance sheet. When you see a C&D sent to a bunch of hackers that claims that the company's "goodwill" has been damaged, that is they number they are using.
When you damage the perceived value of a company's goodwill, they will come after you with layers. This devalues their company a hurts their bottom line. It has nothing to do with how "nice" a company is. It only superficially deals with trademarks and copyrights, and that's all the reason they need. Nintendo has to answer to it's shareholders and when the balance sheets go down, that means the company is worth less money.
See, when you guys bitch about meanie companies spoiling the fun of some homebrewers, you have to remember that Nintendo is a fucking business. They are not only out to make the best product they can, but to maintain a high value of their companies stocks. When you "damage" a game, you are, in effect "damaging" Nintendo itself.
That's why they have to be pricks about it.
This is why any publicly traded company has to be pricks about it. (Squaresoft, etc)
Now, I hope this answers your question. If you still don't understand, then you never will, and your whines will fall on deaf ears.
In the form of a school house rock, if you don't mind.
I am imagining a bulleted list with things like
- Super Mario World hacked into autoplaying levels such that the sound effects play the theme to "Lucky Star".....-$500,000
or
Analysts changed their rating on nintendo from hold to sell Monday, after Pokemon was hacked with sprites replaced by underage girls dressed as Pokemon.
1) Doesn't seem a very forgotten corner, does it.
2) You are in a position to damage their game, and, in effect it's perceived value. If Nintendo does not vigorously defend their trademarks, they can lose them. Also, derivative changes to copyrighted works are illegal. Even "translation patches" are illegal because the translation is derived from the original work.
Here is the actual copyright code, taken from the U.S. Copyright office.
Creating an ISO violates #1 and creating textures based off the original violates #2. You really can't much more clear than that.
===EDIT===
As a matter of disclosure, I was involved in Sony v. Connectix lawsuit. I happen to know a thing or two about this crap. It really gets my goat when people don't get where the company is coming from.
And hell yeah it's a forgotten corner - no one had even heard of this before nintendo shut them down. Now the second group is going to release it anyway with more publicity, so if this really hurts nintendo, all they did was make it worse and come off as dicks.
But thank goodness their copyright is safe, because this was totally a legitimate threat. After the moemon incident they are pretty much on the verge of losing pokemon, now.
You'd think with all the half-life mods that valve would be under by now, or does that not count because valve allows people to mod it?
edit: uh so how did that connectix thing work out? quick googling says that connectix's emulator didn't infringe on sony's copyright.
His whole post was a dodge; a smokescreen made of generalizations and made-up figures. I understand his point, but he wasn't exactly supporting it with anything.
Then I don't see the argument is.
Well, obviously since Nintendo was hawking it, it proved to be of great interest to them.
I'm sure the shareholders are all teary-eyed
That patch to work will not work on a DSi. Guess what's being slated to be discontinued.
Look, if you want to develop for Nintendo, you get a software title under your belt and lease a devkit for $10,000 like the rest of us.
Uh? Supposedly they are going to be furious about this when this thing comes out it is going to rock nintendo's perceived value to the core, right?
Yeah it won't work 'cause gba games won't work on it. I'm sure that's all due to moemon?
The argument is "what is the point of this". Just because something is legal to do doesn't mean it is right to do! It looks like nintendo shitting on a bunch of guys just screwing around. You claim that it's for the purpose of protecting their apparently made-up perceived value, and still haven't answered how such a thing is measured, and how these kind of hacks can, and in the past supposedly did, damage it.
What question do you think you are answering?
Your link there even advises to ignore the intangible assets line, and claims investors only look at the income statement?
You are also talking about a Japanese company. Japan doesn't not have fair use rights and that is part of their culture.
Nintendo isn't you friend either, stop treating them as such.
I suggest you wipe the tears of nerd rage from you eyes, the guys who made the patch are seem to be a buch of asshats anyway.
Shame for who? Shame for nintendo who won't be affected by this at all or shame for the hackers who are releasing this anyway?
I am aware of Nintendo's status as a company who likes money! However, this is the first example of such behavior from them, isn't it? Previously I asked for some tales of Nintendo Dickery and received a grand total of 0 instances.
Also for japan having no fair use rights and it being a part of their culture they sure do parody a ton of shit.
I guess I am just stunned by Nintendo's action? I mean obviously you are one of those "nintendo's not your friend" guys, but this does seem to really be an unprecedented move by them....unless you have some examples.
Atari v. Nintendo - Successfully made it illegal to create 3rd party applications that went around lock out restrictions. (Unless it's for scientific study)
Just because you are not a company does not make you immune to lawyers
I just googled "nintendo cease and desist," took no time at all, and three or four random things popped up right away.
Tons throughout the years.
The thing is, these things are clearly not perfectly analogous to this particular C&D, so you can easily say that they are not past examples of C&Ds issued and Nintendo is still Our Friend.
Which is funny because no$gba is sold as a development tool. (Which, I know is actually purchased as such in many dev houses)
When mothers see penises fighting Mario on the evening news Nintendo's bottom line suffers. It doesn't matter that Nintendo didn't have anything to do with it, the mothers are still going to stop buying Nintendo products.
The game genie one is interesting since...it seems to apply to exactly this?
Limed for the very important difference.
The only penises you can see are your own!
Would you suggest that Nintendo's pictochat application is in danger of becoming m-rated due to the ability to draw wangs?
I am reading "without creating a derivative work" as "this does not constitute a derivative work".
Perhaps I am reading this wrong?
There already was controversy about that on the news.
Broadcasters don't care that both parties would have to mod their consoles to have fighting penises, as long as there are videos out there of someone doing it Nintendo's property is damaged and they, potentially, have angry mothers refusing to let their kids play the game.
It's not a "dick move" for a company to protect their livelihood. Even a project that starts out harmless can lead to the tainting of the characters that they've painstakingly built over decades. They've spent millions to get the Mario character where he is today, and fan patches that could lead to nude Mario fighting vaginas is not something they want to have to deal with, and isn't something they should have to deal with.
Oh ho? I remember quite a different pictochat controversy, but find me this one.
Somehow I am not seeing this media backlash from other, more easily moddable games and their self-inserted penises fighting gordon freeman.
Or mii penis faces boxing each other.
It wasn't in danger of becoming M-rated, but there were news stories on how kids could potentially be exposed to such things.
And Gordon Freeman is in nowhere near the same league as Mario. Ask ten people on the street about Mario, then do the same for Gordon Freeman. The results will be very different. The news media doesn't care about people modding on their PCs, but when Mario or Nintendo gets involved, you have a story.
And, as has been said before, there is a much different culture on the PC side than the console side. Kids play games on their computers, but a mom is much more likely to buy her kid the new Nintendo console than a full on gaming computer. Computers are also more often in rooms where you could fight penises without your mom knowing, whereas the Wii is more likely hooked up in the family room.
This is now a thread about penises. Damn. Only 12 pages, this time.
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