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Casinos & Gambling (or paying homage to 'Gamblor')
Yall
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I wanted to continue the old gambling discussion that was going on in Rygar's old thread. In the spirit of this forum, lets try to stay on the following topics:
So I'd like to start by discussing craps. I'm doing my yearly trip to Vegas next month. The last time I went I employed a betting strategy that my friend who is a pit boss at a Native casino showed me. Basically, you hang out and wait for the point to be made. Then, you place minimum bets on 6 & 8. Where I altered it was that I pulled/banked my winnings every time a 6 or 8 came up, rather than pushing the winnings. This worked pretty well. I'd say out of 6 different hour long sessions at tables, I came away a winner 5 times.
I'm still trying to decide if there are small ways to improve it, such as not betting at all when the initial point is already a 6 or 8, that might skew my overall odds in my favor. But the thing I like about this 'system' is that it's very simple, and is easy to follow, even after many free drinks.
- Favorite games (Craps, 21, Slots, etc.)
- Discussion of Odds/Betting Strategies
- Best Casinos
- Favorite Casino Activities (Best shows, Buffets, etc.)
So I'd like to start by discussing craps. I'm doing my yearly trip to Vegas next month. The last time I went I employed a betting strategy that my friend who is a pit boss at a Native casino showed me. Basically, you hang out and wait for the point to be made. Then, you place minimum bets on 6 & 8. Where I altered it was that I pulled/banked my winnings every time a 6 or 8 came up, rather than pushing the winnings. This worked pretty well. I'd say out of 6 different hour long sessions at tables, I came away a winner 5 times.
I'm still trying to decide if there are small ways to improve it, such as not betting at all when the initial point is already a 6 or 8, that might skew my overall odds in my favor. But the thing I like about this 'system' is that it's very simple, and is easy to follow, even after many free drinks.
Yall on
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I figure if I stick to the $5 minimum tables and stay away from the most obvious sucker bets, I could have a good night just bringing $120. Assuming they have free drinks. God I hope they have those.
I am actually in our sportsbar+betting center right now, crushing poor people's dreams.
Crap is a lot of fun. You can debate the odds of various games all you want, but some are just more fun than others. I think craps falls into that category, because it is very social by nature. 21 can be that way to, but there is more of a sense of competitiveness, since you are all hoping for the good cards. At the craps table, most of the time you are rooting for the shooter.
When I do play the games, I prefer card games. I'll sometimes play a round of blackjack at a casino if I'm there, but I set a pretty low limit for myself and only get maybe $100 in chips and I get out in a hurry once I'm up.
I've joined a few hold'em tournaments, but poker's not that much fun with strangers.
I have no idea how baccarat works or some of the other card games like gin rummy. I think there are contract bridge tournaments, but I think those are just "random" events.
As far as tourism goes, if you're going to Vegas, the Venetian is wonderful to walk through. Caesar's Palace has all the good shopping. The Bellagio is nice too, but more about the fountains than anything. The M&M store is fun.
The Rio's seafood buffet is quite overrated.
Can you elaborate on the first 2 lines a little bit more, I'm not sure what you mean by "behind the line"? I assume you mean the pass line, but my knowledge of craps is pretty limited, especially when it comes to betting strategies.
I think it's called the pass line, yes. It's the line you can bet on before the point is made, when a 7 or 11 is a winner and 2, 12 and something else are losers. You place a bet on the line when the shooter first starts (you may be able to place one there later if you join after the point is made--I don't remember) and when a 7 or 11 hits, you are paid one to one (I believe) on that line bet. When a losing number ("craps") is hit, everything loses. When any other number is made, it becomes the Point. At this point you can place your odds behind your initial line bet. Depending what number is made as the Point, you can place different odds behind. They also pay out differently. I forget the exact numbers, but it's something like two, three, or five times your line bet can be placed behind. When the point comes up again before a 7, you get paid on your line bet and any odds behind that bet.
I'm just going off memory (it's been too long since I played--the closest table is 2.5hours away) so I'm not exactly remembering the terms or the odds/payouts, but I'm pretty sure of the general idea.
Oh, and I say don't bother betting the line if you don't maximize your odds simply because you're basically cheating yourself out of the edge in your favour. You can absolutely bet the line without the full odds, but you're just giving the house a larger edge than you need to in that case.
They are the only things I've ever done and it was at a friends bachelor party...so it was tons of fun.
If I recall, this is actually true. You're not going to make any friends though, so be wary.
Roulette's good. If you can, however, see if you can find a wheel with a single 0 instead of the 0 and 00. Single 0 is also called a European wheel. You get slightly less-bad odds with the single 0 instead of the American wheel with 0 and 00.
I love playing with friends, but have zero idea how that works at a casino...
I saw that there, actually. Was going to post linking to the original casino thread here, but forgot about it. Whoops. :P
[Edit]
Maybe I was thinking of another thread, actually. From yesterday or so.
Can you describe specifically what you mean by the pass line w/odds? Which bets are those?
Stellar advice. I'll go buy a majority share in Harrah's tomorrow.
Please try to contribute meaningful advice or stay on topic.
I addressed this in a reply to TheSmacker.
The pass line is the basic bet in craps and is what you start betting on, assuming you start when a new shooter starts. You make a bet on the line, banking on the shooter either hitting a 7 or 11 (you win 1:1) or at the very least avoiding craps (2, 12 and another number, 3 I think...) and hitting one of the other numbers, making that new number into the point. So, until a point is made, you are basically sitting there cashing in on 7 and 11 and losing on craps.
Once a point is made, that number becomes "on" and is basically what the shooter is hoping to roll again before rolling a 7 (which is now craps and loses). When the point is on, you are allowed to bet your odds behind the line. Depending what number the point is on, you can bet a different amount for your odds behind. Betting behind just means placing a number of chips, at least equal to the value of your line bet (but up to five times at some casinos depending which number is "on") and whenever the point is rolled again, you win on your line bet and your odds behind that bet. The payout is different depending what number is "on" but the idea's the same. After that, the shooter starts shooting for 7 and 11 again, because the points is off now.
let's just say I've been to vegas 3 times and have more than paid for my trips each time with my poker winnings
If you want to play low limit poker you might as well...not...because it's the worst thing I've ever done in my life. There is no rhyme or reason to anything most players do and it pretty much amounts to who gets luckiest with the worst cards.
Example: It's 9am, I'm staying at the Bellagio, so I walk downstairs beer in hand and see if any poker games are going. Usually I play 2-5 No Limit (Bellagio doesn't usually spread 1-3 NL), but they didn't have a full list yet so I decided to sit in at a $4-8 limit game. I proceeded to lose $192 faster than I've ever lost poker, and every hand that turned over against me was ridiculous. 4 bets on the flop, sure I'll call with J4! Whatever, horrible. I go all in blind with my remaining $8, after getting a few more free drinks, and proceed to flop a full house against all 8 players with my 37 off suit. Awesome, $64! The next 5 hands were all wins, and I ended up over $300 in short order. There was zero ability in this game, it was awful.
No Limit games are a different animal. I make a lot of money at NL tables. Observe your opponents play styles and find the few guys who will push all in with a ridiculous bluff...they are free money if you have some patience. I play a lot more hands now, but if you are just starting off you can be a winning player doing nothing but pretty much folding if it's not AA or KK. Bluffing isn't nearly as common as you might see on tv, especially in ring games...don't be crazy just play solid poker and you will lose. Keep in mind money you sit down with is gone, and if you can't handle that you won't be able to play correctly. It takes a certain amount of acceptance to part with a few hundred dollars knowing you did everything you could correctly, it just didn't fall your way. Don't base your decisions based on results, base your decisions on good play long term.
I can go on and on, but really if you want to talk you're going to have to IM me or something it's such a ridiculously large topic.
You're partially right. The odds are an even money bet so if you're betting on the pass line you should always bet $X pass and $NX odds rather than $(N+1)X on the pass line. So yeah, if you're playing above the minimal table limit, use the odds. Thing is, if you're trying to maximize your time at the table and would rather just bet min, the pass line is still one of the better bets. Base pass line is a 1.414% house edge. Don't pass is 1.402% but you look like a jerk. 6 & 8 are 1.52%. Everything else is a 4% house edge or worse, so stay clear. Anyway, $5 pass line w/ a $100 bankroll has far less variance than a $5 pass line + a $25 odds bet even though the $30 combined bet has better odds.
I don't disagree that low stakes limit poker is horrible, and if you are psychologically vulnerable to getting cracked or rivered by crap then you should run screaming (though if you are that way you probably shouldn't be playing poker in the first place), but your last statement there is utter bunk. Nobody folds, so the pots are absolutely huge, and pretty much any drawing hand has correct odds to call after the flop. So your big edge is not being retarded pre-flop, and maximizing the pot when you're going to win or have an edge. Yes, it's a bit mindnumbing and dull, and the variance is super high for the limit size, but it's very straightforward and not hard to beat if the rake isn't utterly retarded. Consider the challenge in low limit not to be against your fellow players, but in maintaining your focus and playing correctly in the chaos. If you're just stepping into a casino for the first time, it's not a bad place to start.
That said, no limit is the primary game these days, and much more interesting.
Craps and Roulette are lots of fun but you're basically just throwing your money away so plan accordingly.
I play no limit poker just about everywhere that has games (both inside and out of vegas) multiple times a week but I don't really consider that "gambling" since you're not playing the house.
I like the Luxor in Vegas it's a nice combo of inexpensive and sheik. Obviously places like the Wynn or Bellagio are a superior floor experience but they are pricier as well.
Fuck I wish I was playing some poker right now.
I'll let that sink in for any that might know what I'm talking about.
As for games, I really fell in love with Black Jack. We played quite a bit at the cheap tables and I left about $160 up. I started with $40 each time I played and once I doubled my winnings I would set $40 aside so that I would at least break even for that session. My buddies and I are planning on going back to Vegas and as we earn more money (all of us are in our mid-20's) I imagine that we will move up in the casinos that we inhabit.
Magic Online - Bertro
it is OK, to get up and leave any time you do not have cards. normally you can just tell the dealer any time 'deal me out' and he'll put a little button there to mark the space and you can leave. he'll then get another player from the list.
you don't really buy in to a table game (tournament is different) you just sit and as long as you are behind the button, you wait till the next hand and are fine. in some places you will have to post a BB (big blind) to join but thats rare. if you sit in between the blinds, you will have to post a BB as well. if you go broke you can always buy more chips from the dealer if you want too.
as far as poker goes, i try to stay away from the single tables but i play alot of tournaments. at the single tables most of your success depends on how old the table is and the stacks of everyone else. if you can get in on a new table, you are golden. but if some guy has been winning there for hours, he can have 10 times what you bring to the table just sitting there and your play will be limited.
id say my success in tournament play is pretty good. 100 dollar buy in, survive 100 other people, win 300-2500 bucks depending on where you go out. of course you can always try to get the final table to agree to a chop (all 10 at my last tournament agreed to it, which is rare) where you all win about 700 bucks. im probably up a couple grand in my lifetime from tournament play. its a fun way to spend a night.
We usually stay at the Flamingo, and the first thing I do when I get up at about 7 AM is stagger over to O'Shea's, get some vodka, and hit their tables. Love that place!
Interesting. I might have to give poker a try this time out.
Getting another player from the list only happens if you leave permanently. If you get up temporarily and are planning on coming back (bathroom, dinner, whatever) then they will mark your seat and hold it for you. Generally you get about 30-60 minutes before they pick you up, but if you say you're going to dinner often they will hold it longer. Check with your dealer if it's going to be any longer than 30 minutes. When you leave permanently they'll replace you with the next person on the list. As for specific etiquette, don't leave on your small blind or your button (unless you busted of course) although it's not a big deal if you have to. Also, the one behavior that will piss off people is getting up from the table all the time and just playing enough hands to not get picked up. We had this guy who had a bunch of money on football games and would play one round, go the the sportsbook for half an hour to watch football, come back and play one more round, then go back to the sportsbook. If you're going to do that just pick up and get a new seat when you're done with your other thing. Some people will complain if you sit down for a very brief period of time, win a big pot, and immediately leave, but again it's not a big deal if you have a reason.
The amount you buy in for isn't strict at a ring game, but there is a process. Talk to the board person and have him put your name on the list for all the games that you are interested in. When they have a spot they will call your name and take you to the table. Generally each table will have some listed buy-in range (like $200-500 or $40-no limit) and you can either give your money to the floor person who seated you or to the dealer and they will give you chips. While your chips are coming you can still play - the dealer will say "X has $300 behind" or whatever, and you will make good on your bets when your chips arrive. You can buy more chips from the dealer anytime between hands.
How do you figure? Older tables have more money on the table, which means there is more money to win. Sure, variance is higher, but being outchipped isn't the disadvantage it is in tournament play because the blinds are static and there is no penalty for busting other than the money you lost on that hand. And playing short stacked with a bunch of loose large stacks playing for implied odds can get you into great situations where they get pot committed with crap and get no implied odds since you're all in preflop or on the flop.
Tournaments are a ton of fun, but they are super high variance. All the money is generally in the top 3 spots, so just making the money won't cover very many buy-ins. As such, I'm really not a fan of chops unless you're clearly getting an edge - a lot of people are really bad at shorthanded no-limit play, and some get really tentative trying to squeeze out one more place in the standings. Unless you're against superior competition or they're giving you a deal really favorable to your stack size, then I think you're giving up money taking the chop.
Yeah, and if you're playing with strangers then really who cares about them - but just recognize that it can create a little bad blood, especially in the old timer traditionalists.
According to this it's 1.36%: http://www.mymoneyblog.com/archives/2007/03/going-to-vegas-play-the-games-with-the-best-odds.html
Maybe I misunderstand what I'm reading there. I admittedly know nothing about craps. I usually just bet how people tell me. Blackjack I feel more in "control" I prefer cards to dice. I realize it's all gambling and in the end the house always wins.
I plan on buying into a poker game, doing superbly, turning pro, and never coming home.
What is the best poker room for this?
I host a podcast about movies.
Typically, if there's empty seats, you just take one. If there isn't, there will be a poker host that will take the stakes you want to play at and wait-list you.
Getting up isn't as big a deal as it is in home games where people have stupid rules about "calling your round" and stuff. There is sort of an etiquette around not winning a huge pot and standing up right away, but other players aren't your friends and will find reasons to bitch no matter what, so don't worry too much about it. If you "seat hop" all the time looking for softer games in the same room, or better seats at them, the host will get sick of you, and she/he is your friend and you don't want that.
I host a podcast about movies.
How baller do you want to be? The big money is at Bellagio or the Wynn. Those are great places to play but they're not for first timers. I really enjoyed the Paris poker room a few years ago because it was laid back and easy pickings, but they weren't open much last time so I went to planet hollywood (laid back, smaller stakes no limit).
Bellagio is pretty much the best game, where you will almost always see big name pros...and more $100 bills than you can imagine.
I would honestly rather play people I can beat then people I want to meet.
I host a podcast about movies.