samurai jack is my homeboi [vann draws things I guess]

Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
edited June 2009 in Artist's Corner
so I hear you guys draw things. I draw things! mostly little cartoons

but recently I went out and bought a nice little Moleskin sketchbook to carry around with me with the intention that I am going to draw something from life everyday. mostly because I'm going off to art school in about six months and I am awful at such things

here are a few excerpts from said notebook. they're definitely pretty quick sketches that I don't intend to go back and fix, but any crits are welcome so I don't continue to make the same mistakes later

downsized_0131091520.jpg
0131091520b.jpg
hugs.jpg

and for kicks here is an illustration I'm working on
supersoaker.png

goddamn those shadows look like some straight up penis

Vann Diras on
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Posts

  • crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA
    edited January 2009
    Well, I suppose if you're not planning on reworking the stuff you've got here right nowl, I'll focus on generalities. The biggest thing I notices was that you're putting outlines on everything. Look at things in real life, and look at how many things have bona fide outlines on them. Nothing. At first it might not mean much, especially if you're planning to go into illustration, or work in a cartoony style which has plenty of outlines. But putting outlines on things you're observing from real life is going to hamper your efforts at conveying three-dimensional form from those things, which is a vital skill in nearly every field of art. Later, with cartoons and other things with outlines, the familiarity with form will help you inform the outlines you do make with things like variation in line width, which will enhance rather than detract from the sense of three-dimensionality of the things you draw.

    Second thing, you seem to be pressing down awfully hard in that sketchbook. Nothing wrong with that per se, but you're going to see a lot more improvement if you learn to relax, and it's hard to relax with lines that dark. If you're worried about the visibility of your lines, go with a softer pencil, which will give you the same darkness with less effort; that's how I settled into my 4B for sketching.

    Related to both observations, it's kind of hard to tell your process from these few drawings, but if you're just going at the outlines in these things, that's the wrong way to do it; try sketching through the object. Remember that you're looking at a three-dimensional object that might be curving away from you here, and towards you there. In drawing from observation, the ultimate goal is to capture that information, and every technique and principle you use--value, contour, hatching, cross-contour, color--is meant to help you to achieve that goal. I'm not saying it's impossible to convey form the way it seems like you're doing it, but it's going to be less comprehensive, and more likely to have inaccuracies in the concept of the thing, and it's certainly not going to help you learn how to observe.

    I dunno, them's my two cents, anyway. I suppose if I were to add a couple of minor points, the eyes on the portrait are skewed (wall-eyed), and the upper arm of your illustration character is smaller than his forearm, the line defining his upper lip is distractingly thin, and most cleft chins don't have spaces in between them like that.

    crawdaddio on
    Try putting your donger in a dishwasher and see how that comes out.
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I agree with just about all that crawdaddio, but I don't think his character has a cleft chin. I think his neck and chin aren't clearly defined so his chin/head look like they are on the same 2d plan as his neck which makes it easy to mistake the neck for the other part of his chin.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA
    edited January 2009
    Nappuccino wrote: »
    I agree with just about all that crawdaddio, but I don't think his character has a cleft chin. I think his neck and chin aren't clearly defined so his chin/head look like they are on the same 2d plan as his neck which makes it easy to mistake the neck for the other part of his chin.

    Huh...whaddaya know...I stand corrected, but agree with Nap's crit about it in that case.

    crawdaddio on
    Try putting your donger in a dishwasher and see how that comes out.
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    crawdaddio wrote: »
    Well, I suppose if you're not planning on reworking the stuff you've got here right nowl, I'll focus on generalities. The biggest thing I notices was that you're putting outlines on everything. Look at things in real life, and look at how many things have bona fide outlines on them. Nothing. At first it might not mean much, especially if you're planning to go into illustration, or work in a cartoony style which has plenty of outlines. But putting outlines on things you're observing from real life is going to hamper your efforts at conveying three-dimensional form from those things, which is a vital skill in nearly every field of art. Later, with cartoons and other things with outlines, the familiarity with form will help you inform the outlines you do make with things like variation in line width, which will enhance rather than detract from the sense of three-dimensionality of the things you draw.

    thus far my efforts have been focused on "can I even get the form of these figures right". but you are right, I have a rigid reliance on outlines (possibly due to never moving away from cartoons before now) that needs to be broken. I will work on this in future attempts
    crawdaddio wrote: »
    Second thing, you seem to be pressing down awfully hard in that sketchbook. Nothing wrong with that per se, but you're going to see a lot more improvement if you learn to relax, and it's hard to relax with lines that dark. If you're worried about the visibility of your lines, go with a softer pencil, which will give you the same darkness with less effort; that's how I settled into my 4B for sketching.

    Yeah, I'm thinking this relates back to my inability to not use outlines. I typically start light, but once I get going I tend to press far harder than I should. I suppose I should also go get some real pencils too, and quit using random #2's I find lying around.
    crawdaddio wrote: »
    Related to both observations, it's kind of hard to tell your process from these few drawings, but if you're just going at the outlines in these things, that's the wrong way to do it; try sketching through the object. Remember that you're looking at a three-dimensional object that might be curving away from you here, and towards you there. In drawing from observation, the ultimate goal is to capture that information, and every technique and principle you use--value, contour, hatching, cross-contour, color--is meant to help you to achieve that goal. I'm not saying it's impossible to convey form the way it seems like you're doing it, but it's going to be less comprehensive, and more likely to have inaccuracies in the concept of the thing, and it's certainly not going to help you learn how to observe.

    I guess my process has been "outline the general form of what you're looking at and then go from there", which taking in the advice you've given is an awful way to go about things. however I'm gonna have to ask you to be a bit more specific here, in terms of a better way to go about this. Value is something I have been intending to try and do some studies on (One has actually been done but I didn't enjoy the result much, so I didn't post it) so I can use it more effectively. On that note, I suppose I don't really know what cross-contour is.

    and yes, the boy in the illustration doesn't have a cleft chin. I've actually been struggling with a way to seperate his jaw from his neck while still keeping the no-outlines flat-color style I wanted for this one.

    Vann Diras on
  • crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA
    edited January 2009
    Naturally, once the pressure's on, I can't seem to draw (at least in a way that illustrates what I was getting at). If you don't mind too much, I suppose I'll post a drawing I'd put up in my thread a while ago, and see if it's got enough to do the job.

    artwork0002.jpg

    Now, keep in mind through all of this that everyone has their own process, and that some may work better than others; my guess is that it all depends on the way you tend to see things in the beginning, though I'm not going to pretend that my process is the best one, even for me. What this drawing (of quite the handsome hand, if I may say so) shows is that I start by sighting distances and angles. I break what I see into constituent shapes, and measure (by eye, or with my pencil if I want to be particularly careful) the length of the lines and the angles. You can see that a bit with the lines and curves connecting the fingertips. The most important part before getting to far into your drawings is making sure the underlying proportions are correct, otherwise you're going to have a well-rendered face with crooked eyes, or something worse. It still happens to me a lot, as the forumer portrait thread can testify. I keep sighting at smaller levels, always checking my marks against whatever landmarks I can use. In the case of that hand, I look at the heart line, thinking "alright, how far down the pinky side does it start, at which finger does it end, and what shape does it make with the other parts of the hand? The more things you check objects against, the more likely it's going to be in proportion.

    Of course, none of that really gets into form, but that, at least in the case of that hand, is where shading comes in. For the harder-edged shadows, I cover the outlines in the same way I did for the general outline. It's one way of defining form, which works especially well with things that have got more complex hard-edged shadows, which usually includes parts of the body (to be perfectly honest, in this case the value approach wasn't too successful, unless you can tell my fingers were bent). There are other ways, though, both of defining form and going about the process of observational drawing.

    Another way is going to sound like I'm flip-flopping, because it's about contour, which is very closely related to outline. The differences, though, are essential.

    pinecone.jpg

    For an example, I'm going to have to go way back, and put up a drawing I made a few years ago (it's odd the images I decided to keep on my computer). This particular approach works really well for organic things with complicated contours, like leaves and pinecones and the like. As you can see, you're basically tracing around the object. There are a couple of catches, namely that you want to minimize the amount that you're looking at your paper to nearly nil (if not completely nil, in certain cases. I glanced at my paper on this one, I'd say, around the end of each branch). The other catch is that you're not just tracing the outline, you're following it even as you've got a piece coming in front of another piece. This is where it works for form. I did the same trace with the branch-things coming out towards me, because that's where the contour led me, and it helps to define the whole thing as a three-dimensional object. Cross-contour (you'll have to excuse yet another drawing) is the sort of same deal, but going across the form instead of around it. In this example, the hatching follows the cross-contours of the lighter (kind of).

    lighter.jpg

    Anyway, I tend to get off-track much more easily with long posts in small windows, so if I missed something (like the point of the question entirely), let me know.

    EDIT: About the guy's neck; have you tried coloring it a slightly darker/cooler color? I'm not sure if it violates the flat-color look, but I'd imagine that'd do the trick.

    crawdaddio on
    Try putting your donger in a dishwasher and see how that comes out.
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    alright I tried a quick ten-minute hand study using some of what you told me craw. started with some guidelines and breaking what I saw up, and tried to define things with shadows more than outlines

    hand.jpg

    however in the process I think I made the fingers too short and stubby

    Vann Diras on
  • crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA
    edited February 2009
    Hands can be difficult to get right, though they make for excellent practice in things like foreshortening, and when it comes to things like understanding the underlying structure of things (like tendons, bones, muscles, and such), and in gesture, when you've got more dynamic hand poses. However, you might want to start with some simpler stuff, at least to begin with. I would personally recommend fruits or vegetables like onions, garlic, apples, oranges and the like. Get some strong light on it if you want to get into shadows and value.

    Another quick note based on your sketch; careful with your shading; lines going willy-nilly will undermine the sense of form that shading can create, since they can act like hatching/cross-contours. First of all, lay down the shading with a bit more care (even if it's a sketch; it helps to keep a light touch). Second of all, try following the contours or the cross-contours with your strokes, so that the strokes and the shading they create work together to show the form. I'm going to beg your forgiveness for posting another drawing, but as a way of demonstrating, look at the shading, particularly on the apples and the cloth, and how they follow the objects (or cut across them, in the case of the cloth), and how that helps enhance the form of the drawing.

    apples.png

    crawdaddio on
    Try putting your donger in a dishwasher and see how that comes out.
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    geez craw, hijacking my thread

    nah this is exactly what I was wanting when I even thought about making a thread, and picture examples are perfect. lighting may be part of my problem with a few of these - they're being draw at work under straight fluorescent lighting, so there's little contrast in value to work with. I tend to make some up myself in that situation. I'll get my spot lamp on something when I'm home to have something better to work with

    Vann Diras on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Definitely work with that spot lamp you've got. Defined shadows are really the way to go.

    I would also suggest getting some 6B pencils to make shading the dark areas easier and for adding more contrast to your work.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA
    edited February 2009
    Personally, I would suggest getting three or four (or more, if you can afford it) pencils, from 2H or 3H to 4B or 6B, to maximize your versatility; that does also bring up another point, speaking of which. One of my drawing teachers noted that most beginning drawers are "afraid of the dark," meaning that they avoid huge contrasts. That doesn't as much apply to sketches or contours, but when you're going for value, be sure to really hit the darks. I don't know how much you'd be willing to invest in since you're going to art school soon anyway, but if you can, it can be useful to get grey or black paper, and white (with the black paper) or white and black (for the grey) conté crayons, which really help put contrast into perspective, since you're working from a different tonal baseline.

    crawdaddio on
    Try putting your donger in a dishwasher and see how that comes out.
  • KilljoyKilljoy __BANNED USERS
    edited February 2009
    stick your ass in a room with only a lamp or something turned on close by, put a mirror in front of you, and try to shade yourself in

    it'll look terrible but it taught me some important things about value

    Killjoy on
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I'll definitely go out and get some proper pencils once I get paid.

    update on the illustration. The colors are very temporary (though I kind of like the neon look on the kid), as I was trying to decide if this is the look I want for it. I'm unsure about the flat colored character against the heavily textured background. Plus the shadows definitely need redone, because they are awful shit.

    alienattack.jpg

    and something definitely inspired by Moss' badass movie posters

    dstrange-1.jpg

    Vann Diras on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    As for your concept art character, i think you'd greatly improve it if you did two things- make his neck longer, so we actually know he has one and pick a more plain color for the background where the character is standing.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    okay, gave the kid a bit more neck and toned down the texturing on the brick

    alienattack-1.jpg

    any better?

    Vann Diras on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I think that's definately an improvement. I'll need to check it later and give you some more advice then.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • RobchamRobcham Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    woo go vann!

    Robcham on
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    rob my hero, my love

    come with me, we shall make off into the night, leaving the king unaware that I have taken his princess as my bride

    Vann Diras on
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Vann Diras wrote: »

    and yes, the boy in the illustration doesn't have a cleft chin. I've actually been struggling with a way to seperate his jaw from his neck while still keeping the no-outlines flat-color style I wanted for this one.

    i can probably help you with this

    I use the whole "no lines" style quite a bit.
    basically, i use lines...but sparingly.
    so if i want to differentiate the neck from the head, i will either add a small gradient fill underneath the head to add a bit of shadow, or i'll use a small line.

    you've used lines already in the mouth and nose, if done right, it'll still have that simple look while having the differentiation you want.

    beavotron on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Take Beavo's advice. She's something of a master at this style.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • RobchamRobcham Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Vann Diras wrote: »
    rob my hero, my love

    come with me, we shall make off into the night, leaving the king unaware that I have taken his princess as my bride
    oh take me now

    Robcham on
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yesterday's attempt at a self portrait:

    downsized_0202091943.jpg

    and then just for funsies

    downsized_0202091825.jpg

    Vann Diras on
  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    That eye is way too big, also try to not shade out one side of the face. Symmetry is hard, but you need to get it down, and the only way to get it down is to practice.

    Mustang on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Your self portait seems to have a few major flaws.
    *Either the nose is too low, or you've made the face to tall.
    * The right eye seems too close to the nose (and for that matter, much too large),
    * the shadow around the eye cuts into the nose in away that makes it seem that the nose isn't their (though that might be due to lighting- hard to tell without a reference)
    *From the looks of it, its seems like you've drawn what you think so saw in the mirror and you didn't pay enough attention to what is actually there. This is a hard concept to get over and just about
    everyone stuggles with it.

    I'd suggest trying to draw some faces upside down- that will take away your minds belief that it "knows" what everything looks like- and also, I'd check out a book called Drawing on the right side of the brain (or something like that... I can never remember the title to that thing)

    -hopefully I didn't come across as being too harsh, but right now you're at the stage where its really easy to point out what's wrong and how to fix them :)

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    it wasn't done out of just laziness, trust me. since I lack a mirror, I turned off the lights, turned on a lamp and snapped a quick picture

    with the way it came out, that entire side was just shadow. I couldn't make out any features so I just went with it

    I will fix that eye, however

    edit- aaaaaaand nap comes in and posts while I'm typing. don't worry about feeling harsh, I've never been the kind of man to get offended

    Vann Diras on
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    actually since I have a little bit of free time, a few quick attempts at some fixes

    downsized_0202092003.jpg

    shortened face, made eye smaller and tried to correct shadow cutting into the nose

    Vann Diras on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    that certainly looks like an improvement, but I'd suggest, instead of trying to fix this one( because the flaws are still there, just less obvious) and try redrawing the picture upside down to see if that helps.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA
    edited February 2009
    Yeah, that's the problem with pictures, especially when it comes to spotlighting; their dynamic range is much smaller than our eyes', so you'll get a block of a shadow where you would normally see detail.

    Proportion aside on the face, I do like what you've done with the value; do you see how the shadows can convey form? That said, I do feel compelled to bring up once again what I'd mentioned before about sighting your proportions carefully before getting in on the rendering. If it helps, there are some standard guidelines with proportion that have to do with the human face; they're by no means universal (which is why we don't all look alike), but hold true for most people. The most famous one is the eyes-halfway-down-the-face one, but you've also got ones like the face's width at eye-level being five eye-widths apart (the distribution being half an eye-width from the outside of the face to the outer edge of the eyes, and an eye-width between the eyes). The proportion-obsessed artists of the Renaissance came up with a slew of others, but I don't remember many of them off the top of my head. They do help to check your proportions, though.

    This probably is also a good time to bring up structure (or more accurately, familiarity with structure). Now, this kind of stuff isn't stuff you need to know all at once, or right away, but at some point, you'll probably be taught to break things down into their "constituent forms." I think I'd mentioned it before earlier, but I didn't go into it. What I mean by that is, think of...a pencil. If you think about it, a pencil (especially the ones that'll roll around on you) is nothing more than a cylinder (the body of the pencil) attached to a cone (the tip). That's a pretty simple example, but it applies to everything. You can look at the form of the head as a sphere attached to a cylinder that's been cut off at a slight downwards angle on the bottom (like I said, it gets more complicated). Breaking things down into forms helps, among other things, with sighting (because you have these better-defined shapes to compare things with), understanding shading (understanding the way light falls on a sphere and a cylinder will help you understand how light's going to fall on a bottle, which is a narrow cylinder attached to a half-sphere, attached to a bigger cylinder), and will help you understand the dynamics of human gesture and posture (for an example, look at Loomdun's thread to see what he's been working on). This is a big reason why, at least in college art classes, they often start you off drawing painted white boxes, cylinders, and cones. Eventually, you get more complicated forms, but that's because they want you to see the simpler ones in them.

    Alright, all that said, I want to emphasize something. Knowledge of these forms, and, for the same reasons, knowledge of human anatomy and its proportions (you'll see, I'm going somewhere with this), is no substitute for proper sighting. You can know nothing about either of these things, you could be an alien from Alpha Centauri, and if you sight your proportions and lines thouroughly and carefully enough, you can still get a spot-on, phenomenal representation of someone; remember, in the end, everything that we see is really just two-dimensional shapes of light and color, and nothing more. Proportion and anatomy, and structure, help to simplify the process of sighting (you don't have to measure the distance of the eyes down the face every single time), and they help you to make sense of what you're looking at, but they don't replace diligent observation.

    Right, carried away again. Long story short, it's a great start, but remember to check your proportions carefully before you get into shading.

    crawdaddio on
    Try putting your donger in a dishwasher and see how that comes out.
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    still working on some more "serious art", I suppose you would call it. but nothing worth posting. tomorrow I intend to go out and buy painting supplies so I can have some diversity in my portfolio. any suggestions for type of paint I should start with? and primer is important right? yeah probably.

    anyways, have some photoshop poop
    whatyoumakeit.jpg

    Vann Diras on
  • crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA
    edited February 2009
    Vann Diras wrote: »
    still working on some more "serious art", I suppose you would call it. but nothing worth posting. tomorrow I intend to go out and buy painting supplies so I can have some diversity in my portfolio. any suggestions for type of paint I should start with? and primer is important right? yeah probably.

    What do you mean by "type of paint"? As in oil, acrylic, etc? That's a bit of a tough question to answer; I think it's pretty dependent on each individual's preferences and artistic sensibilities. That said, I can think of four main types of paint you can choose from (there are more, of course, but I'll just go with those four, and others can add more suggestions if they so choose): oil, acrylic, watercolor, and gouache.

    Watercolor and gouache are probably the paints that would require the least amount of extra equipment, because they don't need a primer, and because their vehicle is water. Betel could probably elaborate (and correct me) on the details of watercolor, but I'll say for now that it's good for a looser kind of painting, but doesn't necessarily lend itself too well to fastidious overworking (at least not in the same way as, oh, say oil). Gouache is very similar to watercolor in that it's water-based, and it can even be used like watercolor with washes and such, but it's generally been used for flat, opaque fields of color, for the most part.

    Of oils and acrylics, acrylics are probably the simpler ones to start out with, though I don't know if I could recommend them on that alone. Acrylics have the advantages of requiring only water as a vehicle, of being fast-drying, relatively easy to clean up (just wait for it to dry, and then peel it off), and for being immensely flexible in terms of the effects and finishes you can acheive with it, from quite closely imitating oil, to being able to get transparent washes like watercolor. It doesn't require any primer, and its flexibility means you don't have to think as much about rules like "fat over lean" like you do with oils. I think its main disadvantage is that it's fast-drying, which you notice all the more strongly if you start off with oils. It also looks a bit plasticky, at least, if you use it without any additives. The main reason I hestitate to recommend it is because it's seemed to me that a person's feelings about oil versus acrylic is pretty heavily influenced on which one they started out on first; I started painting with oils, so I'm a bit biased towards the characteristics it has (like the slow dry-times, which lets you work on areas for much longer periods of time, and which is perfect for glazing, and just kind of feels nice to work with). The thing with oils, though, is that it kind of requires more stuff to start out with (oil, for starters, and either turpentine or mineral spirits), and it requires a primer (or acrylic gesso, which technically isn't gesso, but that's neither here nor there), at least if you're planning on making anything you want to keep. On the bright side in that regard, you can pretty easily find pre-stretched, primed canvases that are ready to go right off the bat, and you can also find primed-canvas "drawing" pads. In a pinch, or for simple color studies, you can use plain paper, but without a primer, the oils end up rotting the paper (or so I've read). It's also the medium that perhaps requires the most pre-planning (at least depending on the kind of painting you're going to do).

    Anyway, short answer, what kind of paint really depends, and you mainly need primer if you're doing oils, but not necessarily, if you can find pre-primed surfaces. Sorry about the lengthiness; you always seem to catch me in a particularly rambly mood.

    crawdaddio on
    Try putting your donger in a dishwasher and see how that comes out.
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    hm I may try out the gouache. will that need any priming? I'll most likely be getting pre-stretched, pre-primed canvas anyway, but it never hurts to know

    one more movie poster, for fun.

    citylights.jpg

    I adore this movie, and Charlie Chaplin in general.

    Vann Diras on
  • crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA
    edited February 2009
    No, it doesn't need any priming, but it's also generally meant for paper surfaces, so I would hold off on that pre-stretched canvas if you're starting out with gouache. I would also look on Google's image search for gouache, just to see the kinds of things people do with it. Not that you have to follow suit, but it's always nice to see what the medium is capable of.

    crawdaddio on
    Try putting your donger in a dishwasher and see how that comes out.
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    hm then I am glad I asked.

    I'll just go with whatever fits my finances, I suppose.

    thanks a ton for all the advice you give craw. you've been nothing but super-helpful, and it means the world. I need all the help I can get, especially when I'm really doubting my portfolio is up to admission standards right now

    Vann Diras on
  • crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA
    edited February 2009
    No prob; I'm glad to be of use. I will say that the most important advice I can give is to take the advice I give with a grain of salt (or at least see what others say about it, too), if only to temper whatever bias or inexperience I've got with this or that.

    crawdaddio on
    Try putting your donger in a dishwasher and see how that comes out.
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Vann Diras wrote: »
    still working on some more "serious art", I suppose you would call it. but nothing worth posting. tomorrow I intend to go out and buy painting supplies so I can have some diversity in my portfolio. any suggestions for type of paint I should start with? and primer is important right? yeah probably.

    anyways, have some photoshop poop
    whatyoumakeit.jpg

    You might want to try to keep your two statements more similar like:

    "Life is what you make it. Make it good."

    Right now you have "Life is what you make it. "Make (Life) a good (Life)" it's kind of awkward.

    You could even change it up like:

    "Life is what you make of it. Make it a life worth living."
    or
    "Life is what you make it. So 'make it' with someone hot."

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • SublimusSublimus Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Nice poster designs. Though Im not too sure how I feel about the t and the y touching.

    Sublimus on
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    oh no! gotta rescue my thread from the depths of page two!

    too bad I'm going to do it with probably the worst update ever

    0212091952a.jpg

    skull study, done at work. probably a waste because I had to rush it so much. less than ten minutes here

    0212091952.jpg

    took the advice of a few here and tried drawing a portrait upside down. This one was also kind of rushed but probably 45 minutes of drawing was done here. after this I tried again... and the results were not even worth uploading so I didn't.

    need to keep spacing out crappy from-life posts with things I know how to make, like posters. I'd hate for my rep to be damaged

    Vann Diras on
  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Any practice is good practice, but do take some time out to really study what you want to draw. You may even want to consider doing a grid study to help with your placement and size of facial features.

    Mustang on
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    book cover

    seize.jpg

    I'm just puking these things out by now. kind of ran out of inspiration for the background towards the end

    Vann Diras on
  • Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap double post

    0215091629.jpg

    today's effort, from this reference

    Vann Diras on
  • crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA
    edited February 2009
    A few things:

    If you've been studying the proportion of faces, then this one probably threw you off because of that; kids have different proportions than adults. For instance, the proportional distance from their eyes to their noses is smaller, and their chins are more obtuse; I've made a quick...thing...over, to illustrate:

    pict.jpg
    The source, and

    draw.jpg
    The drawing. (EDIT: That angle should read 72.63°)

    As you can see, you put too much space there between the eyes and the nose, and made the chin too narrow. I only really got a chance to figure this out because of my being at a primary school, with kids who insist I draw them (which I don't). The red lines, by the way, are to show that you've made the lips too narrow, as well, which isn't so much a problem of the differences between children's proportions and adults as it is a problem of proportion in general, and one I make all too often, myself; a great deal of the time, if the mouth looks off, that's a good place to start tweaking.

    The other two big things are the shapes of the eyes, and the shape of the mouth itself. Right now, you've kind of got a bit of the football-eye thing going; remember that eyes are three-dimensional structures, and those structures are depicted in the way the eyelids cover them. You can especially see that in the photo with the lower lids especially; past the tearducts, they're following the curvature of the eyeball. One of the things you left out, though, was what happens at the tearducts; the eyeball continues, but the eyelid has to leave the curvature to cover the tearduct, leaving a space where stray eyelids cause immense amounts of pain. As a result, you've got in both lower lids a section between the tearducts and the start of the visible eyeball a region in the shape of the lid where the lid goes straight instead of curving in any particular direction. Also, keep in mind that the upper lid is the one that does most of the moving, and as a result, it tends to be a lot more curved; if you look at the photo, and imagine a straight line going from the tearduct to the other end of the eye (where the lids meet again, notice that a great deal more of the eye is showing on the side with the upper lid than with the lower one.

    Anyway, there's more (like the lower lip I mentioned earlier), but it's midnight, and I'm a bit tired; if no one else covers it before I get back, I'll put up some drawings to better illustrate what I'm getting at, but there are those here who'd be able to do it far better than I.

    crawdaddio on
    Try putting your donger in a dishwasher and see how that comes out.
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