Eldar is a highly mobile, highly glass cannon race. Platforms are not anywhere near "mobile", let alone highly. They are support units, not the main force. I didn't want to have to explain this because it's annoying, but you went ahead and made me. >:(
I would apologize for needing to hear you use words and phrases to understand what you're trying to say, but I don't think that's really warranted.
But I still don't see how DoW2's representation of the Eldar faction is unfaithful. For their cost, Guardian squads do hells of damage from range, but get beat up quickly in melee. Shurikens are the same. Warp Spiders will chew up most infantry from afar and can blink away if they're engaged in melee. Etc, etc. Nearly every unit can use Fleet of Foot.
Highly mobile, check. Glass cannons, check. I won't disagree that things need some more balancing to really be spot-on, but if the goal is to make the faction playable and competitive while remaining faithful to the spirit of the tabletop army, it seems like they're heading in the right direction. Are they there yet? No--but then, they're not really there yet with any of the factions. The game isn't even out.
The thing is, though, they aren't really cannons anymore. They don't do huge amounts of damage, just a little more than everyone else, if that. The units that are highly mobile are, but they don't do enough damage to warrant building them. And fire prisms? They're way to slow to ever build.
So if we all agree that things aren't totally balanced and that Eldar got hit with the nerf bat a bit too hard, can you guys stop toeing the line with posts like "Do you even play?" because I know I'm not the only one whose blood pressure could stand a little relief
I think there are some new strengths to be leveraged by the Eldar with these changes, and some rethinking. But some things we just added too much suck to.
That applies to all races.
Good enough for me!
Captain Kaaaaaay, I wasn't suggesting that he was dumb or anything, gosh. I just wanted to know since almost every race has "mobile turrets", that's all! I'm not being snarky.
The really ironic thing about platforms is that in the tabletop game, they're like the only infantry-held heavy weapon that can move and shoot on the same turn.
I think there are some new strengths to be leveraged by the Eldar with these changes, and some rethinking. But some things we just added too much suck to.
That applies to all races.
Good enough for me!
Captain Kaaaaaay, I wasn't suggesting that he was dumb or anything, gosh. I just wanted to know since almost every race has "mobile turrets", that's all! I'm not being snarky.
Platforms line up much closer to the Techmarine and Mekboy's turrets as I've found than the DM squads or the other "Equivalents"
While charing my carnifex into some gaurdians I actually saw a bunch of them gib and splatter, like full on parts flying everywhere, it was AWESOME!
But I've seen things like a rocket from a marine TS hit a lone banshee, and she just fell down and died. Generally I see this more then anything.
How might I increase my Gibbage, let the field rain with blood and body parts, how might I go about this for the greater glory (and easier chewing for my Nids)?
Also, I dunno about 90 seconds for WAAAGH. I think maybe 75 or 80 seconds would be good. 60 was a bit too short--you almost never had to worry about the ability cooldown--but 90 might be a bit too far in the other direction.
While charing my carnifex into some gaurdians I actually saw a bunch of them gib and splatter, like full on parts flying everywhere, it was AWESOME!
But I've seen things like a rocket from a marine TS hit a lone banshee, and she just fell down and died. Generally I see this more then anything.
How might I increase my Gibbage, let the field rain with blood and body parts, how might I go about this for the greater glory (and easier chewing for my Nids)?
all in favor of a "gibbage" slider in the Options menu for retail release, say 'aye'
If it looks snarky, and it sounds snarky, and it smells and feels and tastes snarky...
But it didn't walk snarky!
And Khavall, I don't know what you're talking about, honestly. They are squad, have set up time, and can move. That's a lot more like the Lootas or Devestator squads than turrets.
I wonder if the TT version gets this many balance complaints...
Most people who play the TT, in my experience, have such huge hardons for it that they don't really spend much time complaining.
It's kind of bizarre. I tried getting into it at one point (I gave up because I can't paint for shit and it was too expensive besides) and everybody I came into contact with at the nerd store was just incredibly enthusiastic about the game.
Then again, I wouldn't be surprised to learn there's 40K TT forums out there where people rage.
I think there are some new strengths to be leveraged by the Eldar with these changes, and some rethinking. But some things we just added too much suck to.
That applies to all races.
Good enough for me!
Captain Kaaaaaay, I wasn't suggesting that he was dumb or anything, gosh. I just wanted to know since almost every race has "mobile turrets", that's all! I'm not being snarky.
Platforms line up much closer to the Techmarine and Mekboy's turrets as I've found than the DM squads or the other "Equivalents"
Uh, how? The only difference is that if a member of the crew is killed, it doesn't have to be set back up again unless the platform itself is moved.
Pancake on
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Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
Aye!
I just don't see the huge change for Eldar (in relation to the nerfs to the other races) Does that mean it doesn't exist? No, I'll fully admit the Banshees are probably nerfed into the dirt, but I don't use Banshees so it's hard to tell. So I'm not saying there aren't problems, I'm just saying, they don't seem as big to me.
Also Is it just me, or are Terminators ALOT stronger than Nobs? One game I had like four groups of Nobs fighting one group of Termies and a Force Commander fully upgraded (it was a long game) and the nobs WON in the end, but they took a big beating. Like more than half health gone for each group.
Lord_Asmodeus on
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
And Khavall, I don't know what you're talking about, honestly. They are squad, have set up time, and can move. That's a lot more like the Lootas or Devestator squads than turrets.
I think maybe he's referring to the damage output. It might just be all the shiny blue flashing confusing me, but it sure feels like Shurikens chew my squads up faster than the other weapons teams.
I think there are some new strengths to be leveraged by the Eldar with these changes, and some rethinking. But some things we just added too much suck to.
That applies to all races.
Good enough for me!
Captain Kaaaaaay, I wasn't suggesting that he was dumb or anything, gosh. I just wanted to know since almost every race has "mobile turrets", that's all! I'm not being snarky.
Platforms line up much closer to the Techmarine and Mekboy's turrets as I've found than the DM squads or the other "Equivalents"
Uh, how? The only difference is that if a member of the crew is killed, it doesn't have to be set back up again unless the platform itself is moved.
And Khavall, I don't know what you're talking about, honestly. They are squad, have set up time, and can move. That's a lot more like the Lootas or Devestator squads than turrets.
I think maybe he's referring to the damage output. It might just be all the shiny blue flashing confusing me, but it sure feels like Shurikens chew my squads up faster than the other weapons teams.
They all do more when they get close, so you might just get closer to them. I honestly don't see that, but maybe it does. I know devs have a longer range, though, so it could be made up that way.
I think there are some new strengths to be leveraged by the Eldar with these changes, and some rethinking. But some things we just added too much suck to.
That applies to all races.
Good enough for me!
Captain Kaaaaaay, I wasn't suggesting that he was dumb or anything, gosh. I just wanted to know since almost every race has "mobile turrets", that's all! I'm not being snarky.
Platforms line up much closer to the Techmarine and Mekboy's turrets as I've found than the DM squads or the other "Equivalents"
Uh, how? The only difference is that if a member of the crew is killed, it doesn't have to be set back up again unless the platform itself is moved.
While charing my carnifex into some gaurdians I actually saw a bunch of them gib and splatter, like full on parts flying everywhere, it was AWESOME!
But I've seen things like a rocket from a marine TS hit a lone banshee, and she just fell down and died. Generally I see this more then anything.
How might I increase my Gibbage, let the field rain with blood and body parts, how might I go about this for the greater glory (and easier chewing for my Nids)?
We cranked up the sync-kill percentage (it was set far lower than it should have been), so it's more carnage for all now!
Banshees (even after the patch) are tough bitches. She probably just willed the gore to stay inside, simply to piss you off.
Seriously, there's a percentage chance of gibbing based on the weapon and the target, because all gibbs all the time would be too much. Come to think of it, I remember the mid-70's, when it was all Gibbs all the time, and that sucked too.
While charing my carnifex into some gaurdians I actually saw a bunch of them gib and splatter, like full on parts flying everywhere, it was AWESOME!
But I've seen things like a rocket from a marine TS hit a lone banshee, and she just fell down and died. Generally I see this more then anything.
How might I increase my Gibbage, let the field rain with blood and body parts, how might I go about this for the greater glory (and easier chewing for my Nids)?
We cranked up the sync-kill percentage (it was set far lower than it should have been), so it's more carnage for all now!
Banshees (even after the patch) are tough bitches. She probably just willed the gore to stay inside, simply to piss you off.
Seriously, there's a percentage chance of gibbing based on the weapon and the target, because all gibbs all the time would be too much. Come to think of it, I remember the mid-70's, when it was all Gibbs all the time, and that sucked too.
And Khavall, I don't know what you're talking about, honestly. They are squad, have set up time, and can move. That's a lot more like the Lootas or Devestator squads than turrets.
I think maybe he's referring to the damage output. It might just be all the shiny blue flashing confusing me, but it sure feels like Shurikens chew my squads up faster than the other weapons teams.
They all do more when they get close, so you might just get closer to them. I honestly don't see that, but maybe it does. I know devs have a longer range, though, so it could be made up that way.
They also have an upgrade that lets them boost their damage by trading away any suppression.
I think there are some new strengths to be leveraged by the Eldar with these changes, and some rethinking. But some things we just added too much suck to.
That applies to all races.
Can you make all Eldar as cool as the D-Cannon? I don't mean as powerful as, that would be silly, but D-Cannons have the right balance between cost, mobility, availability and power.
..Or you could put Tau in the game so I could stop playing Eldar.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
We cranked up the sync-kill percentage (it was set far lower than it should have been), so it's more carnage for all now!
Banshees (even after the patch) are tough bitches. She probably just willed the gore to stay inside, simply to piss you off.
Seriously, there's a percentage chance of gibbing based on the weapon and the target, because all gibbs all the time would be too much. Come to think of it, I remember the mid-70's, when it was all Gibbs all the time, and that sucked too.
Banshees are tough? I didn't think they were before the patch, now they don't even do as much relative damage to infantry.
If I had to take a Magic:TG rules lawyer, DND Munchkin, and a Warhammer40k TT gamer, and put them in a room to argue about which system is more broken, I'd bet on the Warhammer40k TT gamer.
I stopped playing 40K TT except with friends because that game isn't tought out or balanced in any sensible way.
My best example was playing Tau. I got a small army when they came out since I liked the look, and they did fairly well once you got to know them.
2-3 months later they released the new Chaos Marines book. This book broke Tau, it broke them over its back and didn't even notice it. Tau were a shooty army with lots of Pinning, to keep CC away form them. The new chaos armies were generally 80%+ immune to pinning, had ability to move 1/4 to 1/2 the table in a turn and then assault, and wore heavy fucking armor.
Basically, if I paired up against some one with a chaos army, I just said GG I'll wait for the next round. The nicer Chaos players would atleast feel bad for you since it wasn't even them trying to be cheesy, just so many units and war gear made them invuln to pin/moral checks.
And Khavall, I don't know what you're talking about, honestly. They are squad, have set up time, and can move. That's a lot more like the Lootas or Devestator squads than turrets.
I think maybe he's referring to the damage output. It might just be all the shiny blue flashing confusing me, but it sure feels like Shurikens chew my squads up faster than the other weapons teams.
Shuriken Cannons should be a bit more powerful though, Eldar are the strong ranged no melee army in this game. The other armies equivalents have a lot better hp/survivability.
Eldar have to keep their opponents at range, they can't handle any close quaters combat.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
While charing my carnifex into some gaurdians I actually saw a bunch of them gib and splatter, like full on parts flying everywhere, it was AWESOME!
But I've seen things like a rocket from a marine TS hit a lone banshee, and she just fell down and died. Generally I see this more then anything.
How might I increase my Gibbage, let the field rain with blood and body parts, how might I go about this for the greater glory (and easier chewing for my Nids)?
We cranked up the sync-kill percentage (it was set far lower than it should have been), so it's more carnage for all now!
Banshees (even after the patch) are tough bitches. She probably just willed the gore to stay inside, simply to piss you off.
Seriously, there's a percentage chance of gibbing based on the weapon and the target, because all gibbs all the time would be too much. Come to think of it, I remember the mid-70's, when it was all Gibbs all the time, and that sucked too.
ETA on Apothecary bug being fixed? Seeing as how it is completely borked and this falls under the discussion we had earlier about Relic's new patching efficiency.
I can't wait till the expansion packs with the other races (I want my IG artillery thanks!). Then it'll probably just become a hopeless clusterfuck :P
I might be in a tiny minority, but I'm not really in any desperate hurry to see more factions in the game. Just balancing four factions is already nigh impossible.
But that's probably because I think all the TT factions are cool. If I had one favorite in particular I might be singing a different tune, but at this point I'm just rooting for a balanced multiplayer component more than anything else.
I couldn't put it together. Joe Gibbs? He wasn't a head coach until the 80s... and all of these other people named Gibbs weren't important in the 70s either... what could he mean?!?
I can't wait till the expansion packs with the other races (I want my IG artillery thanks!). Then it'll probably just become a hopeless clusterfuck :P
I might be in a tiny minority, but I'm not really in any desperate hurry to see more factions in the game. Just balancing four factions is already nigh impossible.
But that's probably because I think all the TT factions are cool. If I had one favorite in particular I might be singing a different tune, but at this point I'm just rooting for a balanced multiplayer component more than anything else.
Luckily I don't play against real people much (100% CPU battles with cousins in DoW1), so I don't really care about balance, long as explosions and blood and guts are aplenty. Imagine my dissapointment when I patched to Dark Crusade and find out IG artillery got nerfed
Posts
And I was joking about having to explain it!
Captain Kaaaaaay, I wasn't suggesting that he was dumb or anything, gosh. I just wanted to know since almost every race has "mobile turrets", that's all! I'm not being snarky.
Platforms line up much closer to the Techmarine and Mekboy's turrets as I've found than the DM squads or the other "Equivalents"
While charing my carnifex into some gaurdians I actually saw a bunch of them gib and splatter, like full on parts flying everywhere, it was AWESOME!
But I've seen things like a rocket from a marine TS hit a lone banshee, and she just fell down and died. Generally I see this more then anything.
How might I increase my Gibbage, let the field rain with blood and body parts, how might I go about this for the greater glory (and easier chewing for my Nids)?
I need to play more to really be sure.
all in favor of a "gibbage" slider in the Options menu for retail release, say 'aye'
Some of the codexs are from 2 editions ago.
But people get over it.
And Khavall, I don't know what you're talking about, honestly. They are squad, have set up time, and can move. That's a lot more like the Lootas or Devestator squads than turrets.
Most people who play the TT, in my experience, have such huge hardons for it that they don't really spend much time complaining.
It's kind of bizarre. I tried getting into it at one point (I gave up because I can't paint for shit and it was too expensive besides) and everybody I came into contact with at the nerd store was just incredibly enthusiastic about the game.
Then again, I wouldn't be surprised to learn there's 40K TT forums out there where people rage.
Uh, how? The only difference is that if a member of the crew is killed, it doesn't have to be set back up again unless the platform itself is moved.
I just don't see the huge change for Eldar (in relation to the nerfs to the other races) Does that mean it doesn't exist? No, I'll fully admit the Banshees are probably nerfed into the dirt, but I don't use Banshees so it's hard to tell. So I'm not saying there aren't problems, I'm just saying, they don't seem as big to me.
Also Is it just me, or are Terminators ALOT stronger than Nobs? One game I had like four groups of Nobs fighting one group of Termies and a Force Commander fully upgraded (it was a long game) and the nobs WON in the end, but they took a big beating. Like more than half health gone for each group.
I think maybe he's referring to the damage output. It might just be all the shiny blue flashing confusing me, but it sure feels like Shurikens chew my squads up faster than the other weapons teams.
And they have higher damage output
Where are you getting this data from?
We cranked up the sync-kill percentage (it was set far lower than it should have been), so it's more carnage for all now!
Banshees (even after the patch) are tough bitches. She probably just willed the gore to stay inside, simply to piss you off.
Seriously, there's a percentage chance of gibbing based on the weapon and the target, because all gibbs all the time would be too much. Come to think of it, I remember the mid-70's, when it was all Gibbs all the time, and that sucked too.
...
your that old?
Edit: They also have an upgrade that lets them boost their damage by trading away any suppression.
Can you make all Eldar as cool as the D-Cannon? I don't mean as powerful as, that would be silly, but D-Cannons have the right balance between cost, mobility, availability and power.
..Or you could put Tau in the game so I could stop playing Eldar.
Did I miss something?
both Google and Wikipedia have failed me in my attempt to create context for this joke
I will just assume you're being fantastically clever
I stopped playing 40K TT except with friends because that game isn't tought out or balanced in any sensible way.
My best example was playing Tau. I got a small army when they came out since I liked the look, and they did fairly well once you got to know them.
2-3 months later they released the new Chaos Marines book. This book broke Tau, it broke them over its back and didn't even notice it. Tau were a shooty army with lots of Pinning, to keep CC away form them. The new chaos armies were generally 80%+ immune to pinning, had ability to move 1/4 to 1/2 the table in a turn and then assault, and wore heavy fucking armor.
Basically, if I paired up against some one with a chaos army, I just said GG I'll wait for the next round. The nicer Chaos players would atleast feel bad for you since it wasn't even them trying to be cheesy, just so many units and war gear made them invuln to pin/moral checks.
Shuriken Cannons should be a bit more powerful though, Eldar are the strong ranged no melee army in this game. The other armies equivalents have a lot better hp/survivability.
Eldar have to keep their opponents at range, they can't handle any close quaters combat.
Well, if past Relic games are any indication, right before the first expansion comes out will be when the game is very well balanced.
Then the expansion will come out and it never will be again.
ETA on Apothecary bug being fixed? Seeing as how it is completely borked and this falls under the discussion we had earlier about Relic's new patching efficiency.
I might be in a tiny minority, but I'm not really in any desperate hurry to see more factions in the game. Just balancing four factions is already nigh impossible.
But that's probably because I think all the TT factions are cool. If I had one favorite in particular I might be singing a different tune, but at this point I'm just rooting for a balanced multiplayer component more than anything else.
Sladvan beat you to that already.
Um, forgive me...
hahahaha, extremely well played
I couldn't put it together. Joe Gibbs? He wasn't a head coach until the 80s... and all of these other people named Gibbs weren't important in the 70s either... what could he mean?!?
I am fantastically disappointed.
Luckily I don't play against real people much (100% CPU battles with cousins in DoW1), so I don't really care about balance, long as explosions and blood and guts are aplenty. Imagine my dissapointment when I patched to Dark Crusade and find out IG artillery got nerfed
Why did you give the SM force commander stylish frosted tips?