Where's the Spawn love?

Zodiac Brave

Spectre-x wrote:

You can't find any Spawn love because there isn't any because Spawn fellates elephant penis.

Discuss.

august

Everyone likes to hate on Spawn. I know I do. Maybe because I was into it in middle school and early high school.

That doesn't mean it isn't bad, though. If I remember correctly it was a lot of pointless, meandering angst and supernatural evil handled in the most immature, teen aged way possible. And not in a really fun way, or a winking at the audience way. That's just really all Todd has going on upstairs.

GABBO GABBO GABBO

You're also a Punisher fan, so that explains it all.

Septus

august wrote:

Everyone likes to hate on Spawn. I know I do. Maybe because I was into it in middle school and early high school.

That doesn't mean it isn't bad, though. If I remember correctly it was a lot of pointless, meandering angst and supernatural evil handled in the most immature, teen aged way possible. And not in a really fun way, or a winking at the audience way. That's just really all Todd has going on upstairs.

Wait, Spawn has worse writing than a large amount of Marvel comics?

I read X-men for the first time in maybe 5 years recently(X-cutioner's Song) and man....so cheesy.

august

Septus wrote:

Wait, Spawn has worse writing than a large amount of Marvel comics?

That's a 10-4, good buddy.

Spectre-x

You can't find any Spawn love because there isn't any because Spawn fellates elephant penis.

Zodiac Brave

Manifest wrote:

You're also a Punisher fan, so that explains it all.

As I said, I haven't read beyond the first trade, and I don't really see any of the "immature angst" surfacing.

Also, the Punisher: MAX is good shit, sir.

Red or Alive

I dislike the series because Todd McFarlane can't write for shit. That, and an all-star team of Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman and Grant "Sugar-Coated Smack Daddy" Morrison couldn't make anything interesting out of the character.

The animated series was a blast, though.

exit

As much as I've "outgrown" Spawn, or whatever, I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for Violator.

I think I got into Spawn to justify buying some of the cool figures.

deadonthestreet

Back in 1995.

august

exit wrote:

As much as I've "outgrown" Spawn, or whatever, I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for Violator.

I forgot all about Violator.

It was nice, having forgotten.

Royse

I like Spawn, and most of the characters in his comics...but his comics are either poorly written or just hard to get into. It's a shame.

Also, the Punisher: MAX is good shit, sir.

:^: :^: :^:

Sugar Magnolia

What is up with his right foot? I don't get how the stump foot is supposed to be at all helpful or why todd mcfarlane likes putting them on everyone it's just gonna make them limp around

DouglasDanger

I've always wondered about that.

kdrudy

It clearly makes him more hardcore, look at the spikes.

Marathon

I was into Spawn way back when I was around 11 or 12. I liked all the detail and was too young to notice bad writing. Just for kicks I read the story breakdown on wikipedia a while ago...and wow, im glad I stopped reading.

I think the most important thing the Spawn series did was show that a comic can be a success even without the comic codes seal of approval. As far as I know Spawn was the first book to publish a series without approval, which gave them some more freedom artistically.

Grifter

Marathon wrote:

I think the most important thing the Spawn series did was show that a comic can be a success even without the comic codes seal of approval. As far as I know Spawn was the first book to publish a series without approval, which gave them some more freedom artistically.

You're very wrong. Stan Lee did it back in the 70's first with the drug addict spidey story.

Marathon

grifter81 wrote:

Marathon wrote:

I think the most important thing the Spawn series did was show that a comic can be a success even without the comic codes seal of approval. As far as I know Spawn was the first book to publish a series without approval, which gave them some more freedom artistically.

You're very wrong. Stan Lee did it back in the 70's first with the drug addict spidey story.

I know it had been done before. What I meant is that the entire run of Spawn had been done without approval from the comic code. Before that it had just been a select issue or 2. Or in the case of the Spider-Man story you mentioned, it was 3 issues.

After doing a little more research about the CCA on wikipedia its interesting to see how the power behind that seal has gone down over the years.
I also found this to be quite funny

Comics Code Authority wrote:

Females shall be drawn realistically without exaggeration of any physical qualities.

It's from one of the earliest versions of the code...Power Girl, you better watch yourself.

GABBO GABBO GABBO

Zodiac Brave wrote:

Manifest wrote:

You're also a Punisher fan, so that explains it all.

As I said, I haven't read beyond the first trade, and I don't really see any of the "immature angst" surfacing.

Also, the Punisher: MAX is good shit, sir.

I was really just fucking with you. Ennis' Punisher is pretty fucking hot.

Bloods End

Manifest wrote:

Zodiac Brave wrote:

Manifest wrote:

You're also a Punisher fan, so that explains it all.

As I said, I haven't read beyond the first trade, and I don't really see any of the "immature angst" surfacing.

Also, the Punisher: MAX is good shit, sir.

I was really just fucking with you. Ennis' Punisher is pretty fucking hot.

I was 'bout the say.

"The Slavers" is one of my favorite things ever. It's so heartbreaking.

ViolentChemistry

Zodiac Brave wrote:

Where's the Spawn love?

Back in 1995, under a pile of Nirvana CDs.

Edit: Worth noting that I still listen to The Clash and have a tapeful of MASK episodes that I watch whenever I end up somewhere with a VCR for a few hours.

Servo

Bloods End wrote:

Manifest wrote:

Zodiac Brave wrote:

Manifest wrote:

You're also a Punisher fan, so that explains it all.

As I said, I haven't read beyond the first trade, and I don't really see any of the "immature angst" surfacing.

Also, the Punisher: MAX is good shit, sir.

I was really just fucking with you. Ennis' Punisher is pretty fucking hot.

I was 'bout the say.

"The Slavers" is one of my favorite things ever. It's so heartbreaking.

i actually think the slavers is the best writing ennis has ever done

Bloods End

Servo wrote:

Bloods End wrote:

Manifest wrote:

Zodiac Brave wrote:

Manifest wrote:

You're also a Punisher fan, so that explains it all.

As I said, I haven't read beyond the first trade, and I don't really see any of the "immature angst" surfacing.

Also, the Punisher: MAX is good shit, sir.

I was really just fucking with you. Ennis' Punisher is pretty fucking hot.

I was 'bout the say.

"The Slavers" is one of my favorite things ever. It's so heartbreaking.

i actually think the slavers is the best writing ennis has ever done

Yeah. That sounds about right.

Munch

Know what I like about Spawn? I only own like, five issues, and one features Cerberus, Dave Sim's character, meeting up with Spawn. He takes Spawn to a dungeon where there are numerous familiar hands reaching out from the pitch-black through a set of heavy iron bars, and men bound with rope and canvas, and bags over their heads, lined up on a wall opposite them. A red hand with spider-webbing here, a familiar iron gauntlet there, and so on. Spawn, distressed about seeing these great heroes locked away, asks Cerberus why they're that way. Cerberus explains that they were "sold," and the men that did it are those with bags over their heads. Spawn, at the prisoners' urging, takes from them all the power they can offer and lashes out, blasting against the bars. He can't even make a scratch. Dejected, he leaves with Cerberus, only to find himself arriving at a familiar home. Costumed, he walks up to the door and his daughter greets him, and he breaks down, overwhelmed with happiness, and knowing that his wife Wanda will be there soon. Not understanding, he turns to Cerberus for an explanation, and the only one the aardvark can offer is that Spawn's creator hasn't sold him. Cerberus leaves, and the last thing we see is Spawn closing the door, happy, waiting for Wanda to come home.

So basically, it's a touching little story about creators' rights and the benefits of creative ownership. Now, since I'm a cynical asshole, here's what I like about it. I like that Todd McFarlane has barely touched Spawn in the past several years, aside from doing a cover every now and then. I like that Spawn has been whored out to make a terrible movie, horrible videogames, and an extensive line of shitty non-posable statues posing as action figures, with everything from Manga Spawn to Motorcycle Spawn to Pez Dispenser Spawn. I like that McFarlane completely abandoned his creative integrity, and rather than end Spawn at the pre-planned point, allowed it to continue for far too long, since hey, it made him money, and that the comic has now reached the point that it's completely forgettable. Most of all, I enjoy how McFarlane has fucked creators like Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore out of characters they helped create or establish (Angela, Miracleman) just to make a quick buck. I even like how McFarlane's collaborator, Dave Sim, turned into a hate-spewing misogynist who, by the end of Cerberus, had his title character rape a longtime friend, with Sim himself basically sacrificing his sanity to complete his self-published work.

Basically, I like having that issue around so I can remember to never act like a self-righteous pariah, only to turn around and act like a gigantic hypocritic cunt years later.

exit

Munch wrote:

I enjoy how McFarlane has fucked creators like Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore out of characters they helped create or establish (Angela, Miracleman)

Wait, whosawhat?

Munch

exit wrote:

Munch wrote:

I enjoy how McFarlane has fucked creators like Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore out of characters they helped create or establish (Angela, Miracleman)

Wait, whosawhat?

Wiki wrote:

In 1993 McFarlane contracted Neil Gaiman (as well as other recognized authors like Frank Miller and Dave Sim) to write one issue of Spawn. While doing so, Gaiman introduced the characters Angela, Cogliostro, and Medieval Spawn. All three characters continued to be featured prominently in the series after Gaiman's involvement, and had many tie-ins with McFarlane's toy company. Cogliostro had a prominent role in the live-action movie in 1997. McFarlane had initally agreed that Gaiman retained creator rights on the characters, but later claimed that Gaiman's work had been work-for-hire and that McFarlane owned all of Gaiman's creations entirely, pointing to the legal indicial in Spawn #9 and the lack of legal contract stating otherwise. (Some argued that this change of heart was motivated by his desire to gain full ownership to the characters by using Miracleman as a bargaining tool.) McFarlane had also refused to pay Gaiman for the volumes of Gaiman's work he republished and kept in print. In 2002, Gaiman filed suit and won a sizeable judgement against McFarlane and Image Comics for the rights due any creator. All three characters are currently co-owned 50/50 by both men.

Miracleman shit is here.

Basically, McFarlane's a jerk.

Hensler

Miracleman/Marvelman was such a cool series. I hear that McFarlane has #25 just sitting around, with some other spin-off books. I really want to see Kid Miracleman lay the smackdown after the way #24 ended. I doubt I ever will, though.

SpeedySwaf

What's this pre-planned point that was meant to be the ending?

Was it the issue where he killed Malbolgia?

Munch

I just recall it was supposed to be around issue 50-60. I think it was supposed to tie in with the whole power meter thing he had in the early issues, and it would eventually run out and the series would end, though I can't be positive.

The Lovely Bastard

I didn't know it had a set ending. But, for what it's worth, I never had a problem with the concept, characters, and setting of Spawn whatsoever. It just seemed like McFarlane had a cool idea and couldn't do shit afterwards. The writing is terrible.

siliconenhanced

I really thought it should have ended at issue 100

[spoiler:381836e2cc] That could have been nice, with split endings. In one, Spawn takes the halo, and in the other, he dosen't. He could have revisited Spawn from time to time, but man he didn't need to go to fucking Japan and all that other nonsense that happened.[/spoiler:381836e2cc]

Angela was Neil Gaiman's creation. Basically Todd said "Hey Neil we're all buddies, guys like you and me are down in the trenches of the comic industry. We don't need a contract for royalties, I'll just pay you." And Neil was all "S'okay! Sounds chipper, mate!" Well Todd paid him once or twice and then went on to make about a thousand Angela spin offs, and considered Neil well funded for his work. Neil disagreed, and I've seen a lengthy rant from him about what a cockhole Todd is.

Furu

I..own a lot of Spawn.

Used to enjoy it too.

I think the Malbolgia's death and Spawn taking his place would have been the ideal ending.

Tube

I've never read spawn. I liked the animated series but having read Year Two I'm not convinced that I could read a Todd McFarlane thing without spitting blood

Tach

Munch wrote:

exit wrote:

Munch wrote:

I enjoy how McFarlane has fucked creators like Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore out of characters they helped create or establish (Angela, Miracleman)

Wait, whosawhat?

Wiki wrote:

In 1993 McFarlane contracted Neil Gaiman (as well as other recognized authors like Frank Miller and Dave Sim) to write one issue of Spawn. While doing so, Gaiman introduced the characters Angela, Cogliostro, and Medieval Spawn. All three characters continued to be featured prominently in the series after Gaiman's involvement, and had many tie-ins with McFarlane's toy company. Cogliostro had a prominent role in the live-action movie in 1997. McFarlane had initally agreed that Gaiman retained creator rights on the characters, but later claimed that Gaiman's work had been work-for-hire and that McFarlane owned all of Gaiman's creations entirely, pointing to the legal indicial in Spawn #9 and the lack of legal contract stating otherwise. (Some argued that this change of heart was motivated by his desire to gain full ownership to the characters by using Miracleman as a bargaining tool.) McFarlane had also refused to pay Gaiman for the volumes of Gaiman's work he republished and kept in print. In 2002, Gaiman filed suit and won a sizeable judgement against McFarlane and Image Comics for the rights due any creator. All three characters are currently co-owned 50/50 by both men.

Miracleman shit is here.

Basically, McFarlane's a jerk.

Not only a jerk, but a hypocrite. He, and the other founders of Image, left Marvel because of the exact same douchebaggery that he pulled on Gaiman and Moore. It was all about creative control alright- as long as Todd was the creator in control.

*edit- forgot to mention that I found too late that Spawn was simply Emo-Magic-Symbiote Spider-man...

DouglasDanger

Todd is a shitty guy, and Spawn is a shitty book.

Hensler

Used to have really cool action figures though.

DouglasDanger

That were more like statues, accept more fragile.

Hensler

DouglasDanger wrote:

That were more like statues, accept more fragile.

The first ones you could actually play with. That's why I said "used to." I had Medieval Spawn and a big cyborg guy whose head shot off and a big black and orange horned demon guy. I loved those toys when I was little. But the Mcfarlane figures I picked up recently for my little brother were very fragile.

SpeedySwaf

So, did anyone hear how they're doing another Spawn/Batman crossover in January? It's supposed to be Spawn vs. Joker, and Batman vs. Clown.

The Lovely Bastard

Why are they doing this again?

Just, why?

Also, this thread is making me bust out the Spawn animated series DVDs I have. Best part about them - no fruity McFarlane intros for the episodes.

SageinaRage

I remember reading and liking spawn...at least the beginning.

Though my favorite part was Sam and Twitch, who went on to have their own very excellent spinoff. Or maybe I just liked their spinoff.

I also liked Cogliostro, who apparently was a Neil Gaiman creation.

I also liked the sort of....mythology, I guess, that he created. Much more so than the actual characters.

In summation, I have good memories of spawn, but I would probably be disappointed in a re-read.