Was that the extent of the Bart/TT reunion special? Because it kind of blew.
Actually, this issue kind of blew. GL Rebirth at least had a sense of something BIG happening... this was just a complete fucking bummer from beginning to end.
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When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
It felt a lot more like a setup story to me. Seems like some of the stuff he put in there is stuff that will specifically come into play down the line. I wouldn't say it was bad. I just don't think this first issue was as strong as it could have been or perhaps needs to be.
I usually really like Geoff Johns' writing, but this issue wasn't...very good. Along with what everyone else mentioned, there's just some plain bad writing. "He shattered my expectations like he shattered the sound barrier?" Who talks like that?
I'm also kind of confused how Johns can have such a consistently poor handle on Bart Allen's character. I don't care if he misses Max (all of a sudden, after barely mentioning him at all in any Johns-written stuff), Bart WORSHIPS Barry.
Admittedly I didn't think much of GL Rebirth either in the beginning, but this series is starting off with a lot more immediate problems.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
There are characters Johns simply has trouble writing. It looks like Bart is one of them.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
It's not even that, Bart has been shown to revere Barry in Johns' own writing (Infinite Crisis, Teen Titans). Not to mention the stuff in Impulse, primarily in Waid's run. He probably hates XS now just 'cuz
Johns is at the point where there is no middle ground in his writing, it's either really good or really bad.
Almost as bad is Bart's line about his brief time as Flash "not being any fun." It feels like Johns attempted to answer his critics by making Bart more Impulse-y, but only made him sound bratty.
To be fair, it's possible stuff happens in Legion of Three Worlds that helps explain or at least build up to Bart's seemingly out of character moments here (maybe getting killed as an adult made him subconsciously revert to a brattier, childlike personality, etc.). But even before this Bart has always been Johns' consistently worst-written character. This just takes it to a whole new level.
Even at his most emo-y (after having a dupe die on Apocalypse comes to mind) Bart was never like what he was portrayed in this comic.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Were there two killers in the beginning? In one panel as he/them reach for the chemicals one arm is coming from the lower left, and the other is entering the panel at an angle from the upper right. Try to recreate that position yourself, why would anyone contort themselves like that just to grasp objects that are right in front of them, and who's arms are that long?
Several panels later a left arm is pointing in one direction, and in what appears to be seven or eight feet in the other direction, is a right arm - they're spaced wildly apart - and yet it appears as though we're viewing the panel from the perspective of a single person.
Is this all by design, or is EVS's work still flawed in amateur ways?
I thought it was strange that on one page Barry is telling Hal that the other three speedsters are enough, and the world doesn't need him now. Then as they're leaving the museum, he changes his attitude to "THE WORLD NEEDS MEEEEEEE!"
I don't have a problem with legacy characters. But the problem is that even on a single character, continuity can become really convoluted and messed up over many years and many writers. Throw in multiple characters with the same name, each one having different personality quirks and you have a situation that will almost inevitably lead to an eventual melt down.
The sad truth is that the Flash comics were pretty much at this point. With 4 different Flashes, the brand was suffering from a variety of problems. They had as many as 3 or 4 writers on the book in the last couple years. Not to mention an aborted relaunch and some really bad crossover appearances.
At this point, a complete overhaul, even with some seemingly unnecessary retcons, might be the only way to salvage the entire line and bring back some fans. Yes, there are still a few dedicated Flash fans that will read the book no matter what. But DC needs to bring in a new generation of readers to this book to maintain its profitability.
5 years ago, a better solution would have been to simply put an A-List writer on the book, give him or her total creative liberty, and let that person run wild for a long duration of time. The problem is that much of the recent Flash stuff seems to have been driven by editorial mandate, and that kind of things scares the good writers away.
Well, I reread the issue again to give it a second chance, and in my opinion this is Johns first "miss" as far as retooling a character is concerned. Just my opinion, it was cliche, trite, as others pointed out the new direction for Barry doesn't feel authentic but rather blase and based more upon his gathered legend than source. I never thought I would say this about a Johns book, but it was kind of boring. And I really like the Flash, EVS, Johns, and the entire Flash cast (hero, supporting character, and rogue).
I'll wait and see if this bitch has legs in #2 before I drop it.
It certainly is, but if you look at the image just right it just looks like the Flash wearing a full bow tie/lab coat ensemble over his costume. Thus making it more badass.
I don't have a problem with legacy characters. But the problem is that even on a single character, continuity can become really convoluted and messed up over many years and many writers. Throw in multiple characters with the same name, each one having different personality quirks and you have a situation that will almost inevitably lead to an eventual melt down.
The sad truth is that the Flash comics were pretty much at this point. With 4 different Flashes, the brand was suffering from a variety of problems. They had as many as 3 or 4 writers on the book in the last couple years. Not to mention an aborted relaunch and some really bad crossover appearances.
At this point, a complete overhaul, even with some seemingly unnecessary retcons, might be the only way to salvage the entire line and bring back some fans. Yes, there are still a few dedicated Flash fans that will read the book no matter what. But DC needs to bring in a new generation of readers to this book to maintain its profitability.
5 years ago, a better solution would have been to simply put an A-List writer on the book, give him or her total creative liberty, and let that person run wild for a long duration of time. The problem is that much of the recent Flash stuff seems to have been driven by editorial mandate, and that kind of things scares the good writers away.
Not trying to offend but i can't say i agree with you. I don't think a good writer fixes the book, and i don't think retconning flash into a brand new baby makes him an interesting character.
I am not the biggest flash fan. I like some of the old stuff i've read with time travel, and running with jay garrick and some of the stuff that was happening with the speed force, but over all flash is just a guy who runs fast. He's great as a part of the justice league, but i can't think of anything in the last few years that has been remotely interesting in the flash books. The whole thing has been a mess. I'd say the long history is the most interesting part. And that's barry allen.
The reason no creative team stays on the book is probably because the book doesn't sell well, and dc tries to reset without too much trouble.
Look at what marvel is doing with iron fist and ghost rider. complete resets, with huge backstories instead of throw away issues and silly surprises (like children with stupid powers to take care of who often seem to vary in emotional age from 2 to 12). honestly if that is what happens with this new old flash, i could actually be entertained. John's Hal jordon ideas made green lantern the best thing going in dc.
When it comes to any of the flashes, i like them better in a team book. wally was boring as flash, then bart was even more boring. barry will probably be pretty boring as the flash, but i have a feeling like he's not going to stay. either way i'll give it a shot, and hope i like it.
The one thing Geoff Johns does really well is plan for the long term. Whether people care for Barry Allen or not, chances are that Johns already has stories planned for a year to come, or more.
The direction he recently took the Superman books is really cool, and he's been working up to it for a long time. Same with his Green Lantern stuff. Johns is a long term planner, and I think his Flash relaunch has a good chance of success, because he's probably got a pretty solid game plan.
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sportzboytjwsqueeeeeezzeeeesome more tax breaks outRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
I read the first issue of Rebirth. It was pretty good. I actually like Wally a LOT better than Barry, (and I was kind of the same way with Kyle over Hal, given where we were with them at the time), but GJ hasa a pretty good track record, so I'm willing to see where this goes. I enjoyed issue 1, although I didn't think it was earth-shaking or anything. Interesting though, and I liked
When Barry accidently killed that douche-bag that tried to "rule" the speedforce, cuz I'll be honest, I HATED that guy.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
Think about all his other works.
He always brings back the bigger characters just to kill off smaller ones to make bad guy x seem like a serious threat.
It can also explain Bart being a whiny brat in Rebirth. His favorite cousin got her head punched off by his arch nemesis having a temper tantrum. Superboy being rehabilitated on the corpses of smaller characters, that's where Johns will go with it.
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Actually, this issue kind of blew. GL Rebirth at least had a sense of something BIG happening... this was just a complete fucking bummer from beginning to end.
ugh
I'm also kind of confused how Johns can have such a consistently poor handle on Bart Allen's character. I don't care if he misses Max (all of a sudden, after barely mentioning him at all in any Johns-written stuff), Bart WORSHIPS Barry.
Admittedly I didn't think much of GL Rebirth either in the beginning, but this series is starting off with a lot more immediate problems.
Johns is at the point where there is no middle ground in his writing, it's either really good or really bad.
To be fair, it's possible stuff happens in Legion of Three Worlds that helps explain or at least build up to Bart's seemingly out of character moments here (maybe getting killed as an adult made him subconsciously revert to a brattier, childlike personality, etc.). But even before this Bart has always been Johns' consistently worst-written character. This just takes it to a whole new level.
Several panels later a left arm is pointing in one direction, and in what appears to be seven or eight feet in the other direction, is a right arm - they're spaced wildly apart - and yet it appears as though we're viewing the panel from the perspective of a single person.
Is this all by design, or is EVS's work still flawed in amateur ways?
I'm biased though because I don't think Barry should have ever been brought back in the first place.
Best answer so far:
No, it's really not. Not for comic book writers.
The sad truth is that the Flash comics were pretty much at this point. With 4 different Flashes, the brand was suffering from a variety of problems. They had as many as 3 or 4 writers on the book in the last couple years. Not to mention an aborted relaunch and some really bad crossover appearances.
At this point, a complete overhaul, even with some seemingly unnecessary retcons, might be the only way to salvage the entire line and bring back some fans. Yes, there are still a few dedicated Flash fans that will read the book no matter what. But DC needs to bring in a new generation of readers to this book to maintain its profitability.
5 years ago, a better solution would have been to simply put an A-List writer on the book, give him or her total creative liberty, and let that person run wild for a long duration of time. The problem is that much of the recent Flash stuff seems to have been driven by editorial mandate, and that kind of things scares the good writers away.
I'll wait and see if this bitch has legs in #2 before I drop it.
Not trying to offend but i can't say i agree with you. I don't think a good writer fixes the book, and i don't think retconning flash into a brand new baby makes him an interesting character.
I am not the biggest flash fan. I like some of the old stuff i've read with time travel, and running with jay garrick and some of the stuff that was happening with the speed force, but over all flash is just a guy who runs fast. He's great as a part of the justice league, but i can't think of anything in the last few years that has been remotely interesting in the flash books. The whole thing has been a mess. I'd say the long history is the most interesting part. And that's barry allen.
The reason no creative team stays on the book is probably because the book doesn't sell well, and dc tries to reset without too much trouble.
Look at what marvel is doing with iron fist and ghost rider. complete resets, with huge backstories instead of throw away issues and silly surprises (like children with stupid powers to take care of who often seem to vary in emotional age from 2 to 12). honestly if that is what happens with this new old flash, i could actually be entertained. John's Hal jordon ideas made green lantern the best thing going in dc.
When it comes to any of the flashes, i like them better in a team book. wally was boring as flash, then bart was even more boring. barry will probably be pretty boring as the flash, but i have a feeling like he's not going to stay. either way i'll give it a shot, and hope i like it.
The direction he recently took the Superman books is really cool, and he's been working up to it for a long time. Same with his Green Lantern stuff. Johns is a long term planner, and I think his Flash relaunch has a good chance of success, because he's probably got a pretty solid game plan.
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
This one didn't leave a great taste in my mouth but I'm willing to give Johns the benefit of the doubt right now
"What the _____ happened to Geoff Johns? There was a time when he seemed to know what he was doing!"
In other news
That's the last you'll see her smiling.
He always brings back the bigger characters just to kill off smaller ones to make bad guy x seem like a serious threat.
It can also explain Bart being a whiny brat in Rebirth. His favorite cousin got her head punched off by his arch nemesis having a temper tantrum. Superboy being rehabilitated on the corpses of smaller characters, that's where Johns will go with it.
(Sob)
How is Bart back?